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[paxxton]

Corik wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...

paxxton wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...

Corik wrote...

Another evidence of ReaperBieber being in fact a reaper (harbinger probably... or bad writting xD). He says "The catalyst is my home" but two lines after, when talking about how they left humans alone in the last cycle he says "the last time we were here". Okay, Reaperbieber... if you live in the citadel, you haven't moved from here "since the last time they were here". In fact... if you control the reapers and live in the Citadel, why you didn't fix your "home" 3 years ago when Sovereing tried to open the relay to Dark Space? Your arguments are sinking!

Wouldn't it be great if an english teacher could look through those 16 lines of dialog and let the red marker speak.

I have four words for you: Starchild's logic makes sense. YYYEEEEEAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yeah, I know, this thread and it's predecessor have already seen a discussion about the Catalyst's words in terms of pure logic. It's just that he often switches words in odd ways.
Thus, making sense if you put his talk under a rigorous analysis, but not if you're in Shepard's fried shoes where he's battleworn and tired.
I know what it's like. I, too, have morning lectures.

I think he was kidding.

Nah. I was serious. Seriously.

Modifié par paxxton, 09 juin 2012 - 05:06 .

[MaximizedAction]

D.Sharrah wrote...

I was just playing Monkey Island (Xbox Live version  -as an aside love it, have both MI and MI 2: Le'Chuck's Revenge)...and they break the 4th wall several times...

Yeah, but has it ever been in those odd moments as it seems to be done in ME3?
Because you can of course break the 4th wall in different manners. Either in an obvious way (Fresh Prince), an accidental way (Fellon) or in an "wtf, is he talking to me?" (ME3)?

[Big G13]

MaximizedAction wrote...

paxxton wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...

Corik wrote...

Another evidence of ReaperBieber being in fact a reaper (harbinger probably... or bad writting xD). He says "The catalyst is my home" but two lines after, when talking about how they left humans alone in the last cycle he says "the last time we were here". Okay, Reaperbieber... if you live in the citadel, you haven't moved from here "since the last time they were here". In fact... if you control the reapers and live in the Citadel, why you didn't fix your "home" 3 years ago when Sovereing tried to open the relay to Dark Space? Your arguments are sinking!

Wouldn't it be great if an english teacher could look through those 16 lines of dialog and let the red marker speak.

I have four words for you: Starchild's logic makes sense. YYYEEEEEAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yeah, I know, this thread and it's predecessor have already seen a discussion about the Catalyst's words in terms of pure logic. It's just that he often switches words in odd ways.
Thus, making sense if you put his talk under a rigorous analysis, but not if you're in Shepard's fried shoes where he's battleworn and tired.
I know what it's like. I, too, have morning lectures.

uhg. I remember that day. And this may make me sound like the dumbest person in here, but, pure logic makes absolutely no common sense.

[Corik]

paxxton wrote...

Corik wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...

paxxton wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...

Corik wrote...

Another evidence of ReaperBieber being in fact a reaper (harbinger probably... or bad writting xD). He says "The catalyst is my home" but two lines after, when talking about how they left humans alone in the last cycle he says "the last time we were here". Okay, Reaperbieber... if you live in the citadel, you haven't moved from here "since the last time they were here". In fact... if you control the reapers and live in the Citadel, why you didn't fix your "home" 3 years ago when Sovereing tried to open the relay to Dark Space? Your arguments are sinking!

Wouldn't it be great if an english teacher could look through those 16 lines of dialog and let the red marker speak.

I have four words for you: Starchild's logic makes sense. YYYEEEEEAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yeah, I know, this thread and it's predecessor have already seen a discussion about the Catalyst's words in terms of pure logic. It's just that he often switches words in odd ways.
Thus, making sense if you put his talk under a rigorous analysis, but not if you're in Shepard's fried shoes where he's battleworn and tired.
I know what it's like. I, too, have morning lectures.

I think he was kidding.

Nah. I was serious. Seriously.

I think you're kidding again xDDDDD

Starchild is anything but coherent!

[D.Sharrah]

MaximizedAction wrote...

D.Sharrah wrote...

I was just playing Monkey Island (Xbox Live version  -as an aside love it, have both MI and MI 2: Le'Chuck's Revenge)...and they break the 4th wall several times...

Yeah, but has it ever been in those odd moments as it seems to be done in ME3?
Because you can of course break the 4th wall in different manners. Either in an obvious way (Fresh Prince), an accidental way (Fellon) or in an "wtf, is he talking to me?" (ME3)?

Oh...its quite intentional...in fact in Monkey Island 2, there is a sequence where the protagonist can pick up a phone in a jungle and call the help line for the game...and it is absolutely hysterical!  They do it and want you to know that you are doing it, that is part of the charm of the games.

[paxxton]

Corik wrote...

paxxton wrote...

Corik wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...

paxxton wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...

Corik wrote...

Another evidence of ReaperBieber being in fact a reaper (harbinger probably... or bad writting xD). He says "The catalyst is my home" but two lines after, when talking about how they left humans alone in the last cycle he says "the last time we were here". Okay, Reaperbieber... if you live in the citadel, you haven't moved from here "since the last time they were here". In fact... if you control the reapers and live in the Citadel, why you didn't fix your "home" 3 years ago when Sovereing tried to open the relay to Dark Space? Your arguments are sinking!

Wouldn't it be great if an english teacher could look through those 16 lines of dialog and let the red marker speak.

I have four words for you: Starchild's logic makes sense. YYYEEEEEAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yeah, I know, this thread and it's predecessor have already seen a discussion about the Catalyst's words in terms of pure logic. It's just that he often switches words in odd ways.
Thus, making sense if you put his talk under a rigorous analysis, but not if you're in Shepard's fried shoes where he's battleworn and tired.
I know what it's like. I, too, have morning lectures.

I think he was kidding.

Nah. I was serious. Seriously.

I think you're kidding again xDDDDD

Starchild is anything but coherent!

Nah. He might seem incoherent at moments but it's because we had no opportunity to chat with him and listen to his story. As for the "Created will always rebel against their creators" line it makes sense even with the geth/quarian war.

Modifié par paxxton, 09 juin 2012 - 05:16 .

[D.Sharrah]

And since BigStig has been the only one to comment here is my crazy theory one more time...I seriuosly want to know if I am pulling a The Number 23 here or at least still in touch with a bit of my sanity.

D.Sharrah wrote...

Creepy eyes be damned!  I don't want this to get lost in the thread...please let me know if I am completely off my rocker...or only slightly off my rocker! 

D.Sharrah wrote...

OK crazy theory incoming...don't say that you weren't warned.
I have been reading through some of the posts over the last couple of days and something slowly has been formulating in my head.  This theory ties the events of ME 2, TIM, the Collector's, Harbinger and of course Shepard into one tight, convulted knot.  Also, this theory makes some assumptions based on the lore - so let's start with those.
Assumptions

1.  TIM having been hit by a wave from a Reaper device, has been slowly succumbing to the affects of Indoctrination.  And while his mind is still his own, it is not w/o Reaper influence (even in ME 2).

2.  Harbinger is very likely to be ReaperBieber the Starbinger.  And therefore is aware of the circular logic that is "The created will always rebel against their creators".

3.  Harbinger being the leader of the Reapers, "created" the Collector's.  Following the previously mentioned circular logic, Harbinger knew it was only a matter of time before the Collector's rebelled.  Harbinger knowing that he would lose these "tools" turned his focus to the next set...

At this point, let's go ahead and get into the theory.  At the start of ME 2 we see the Collector's destroy the Normandy and "kill" Shepard.  This was their first act of defieance against their creator, Harbinger.  Because he did not want Shepard "killed" but he wanted Sheaprd captured.  Harbinger knew that the day when the Collector's would rebel and try to destroy him was coming - but he had planned for this.  He was going to use these current tools to subtely put the machinations into work to bring him his next tools, the humans.  He would do this on two fronts, the creation of a human Reaper (which he needed the Collector's to collect the resources) and a singular consciousness that would "become" this Reaper.  That consciousness would be Shepard - the symbol of everything that humanity strived to be.  But the definace that the Collector's showed in "killing" Shepard rather than capturing Shepard - forced Harbinger to turn to plan B.

Knowing that the Collector's could no longer be trusted.  Harbinger started to influence TIM, started to influence him to save Shepard and bring him back.  It was only if he was brought back that he could become an ultimate Reaper agent.  The events of ME 2, starting with the Lazarus Project, was a Reaper design to create their next tool.  Harbinger would deftly move these two seperate forces slowly on his galactic chess board towards a confrontation.  A confrontation that regardless of its winner would lead his next greatest tool right into his tentacles.  Harbinger would "grant" TIM just enough insight to see the "patterns" of the Collector's plans slowly drawing him (and therefore Shepard) to the Collector base.  If Shepard failed to destroy the Collectors, he would be captured and prepared for upload to the human Reaper.  If he succeeded, then he would gain the clout to gather all of the opposition to a later trap.

It was a perfect plan.  A plan that would end with the Indoctrination of what the galaxy had come to know as its saviour.  How could he fail?


That's the general outline...there are more ideas rumbling around in my head...but what do you guys/gals think? 

[ivenoidea]

D.Sharrah wrote...

And since BigStig has been the only one to comment here is my crazy theory one more time...I seriuosly want to know if I am pulling a The Number 23 here or at least still in touch with a bit of my sanity.

Shh.. nobody tell him if he's insane or not. It will drive him insane!

[D.Sharrah]

ivenoidea wrote...

D.Sharrah wrote...

And since BigStig has been the only one to comment here is my crazy theory one more time...I seriuosly want to know if I am pulling a The Number 23 here or at least still in touch with a bit of my sanity.

Shh.. nobody tell him if he's insane or not. It will drive him insane!

That's just mean....

[ivenoidea]

D.Sharrah wrote...

ivenoidea wrote...

D.Sharrah wrote...

And since BigStig has been the only one to comment here is my crazy theory one more time...I seriuosly want to know if I am pulling a The Number 23 here or at least still in touch with a bit of my sanity.

Shh.. nobody tell him if he's insane or not. It will drive him insane!

That's just mean....

Sorry, *brohug*

Jokes aside, i think your theory makes sense and is kinda cool. 

Modifié par ivenoidea, 09 juin 2012 - 05:26 .

[Turbo_J]

MaximizedAction wrote...

Corik wrote...

Another evidence of ReaperBieber being in fact a reaper (harbinger probably... or bad writting xD). He says "The catalyst is my home" but two lines after, when talking about how they left humans alone in the last cycle he says "the last time we were here". Okay, Reaperbieber... if you live in the citadel, you haven't moved from here "since the last time they were here". In fact... if you control the reapers and live in the Citadel, why you didn't fix your "home" 3 years ago when Sovereing tried to open the relay to Dark Space? Your arguments are sinking!

Wouldn't it be great if an english teacher could look through those 16 lines of dialog and let the red marker speak.

Yep, but I just stick with the obvious trip ups of the character itsef.

I becomes we and us - make up your mind kid!

He claimed that 'We already controled' TIM... so what did TIM  do then? Nothing. I think he went to Omega.

TIM Reapers controlled Shep and Anderson.
TIM Repaers shot Anderson.
TIM Reapers told Shep he needed them to believe.

What more proof do you need that Starbinger isn't trying to help anyone but the Reapers.

A note on Thessis, as I just went through it again: I think Vendetta was a trap from the start... Just something in it's dialog on Thessia didn't sit right with me. I'll have to go through the video to solidify my thoughts on it.

Anyway, The VI wasn't 'already on'. How did It have time to, as Vigil said; 'study your communications' so it was able to communicate in a way everyone could understand? It could be argued that Javik upgraded the translators, but that does not fly with an optional DLC. Shep is the only one with the cipher so only Shep should understand what it says. Everyone else should hear garble... and if you do have Javik and know about the video records... they should just see static, not a hollow projection of a Prothian.

Anyone else catch how much 'Tech' seemed to be under the floor of the temple? How big was that beacon?

[paxxton]

D.Sharrah wrote...

*snip*

That's the general outline...there are more ideas rumbling around in my head...but what do you guys/gals think? 

You sir, are a genius. You might have finally connected all the dots! Are you a BioWare insider?

Modifié par paxxton, 09 juin 2012 - 05:35 .

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

D.Sharrah wrote...

And since BigStig has been the only one to comment here is my crazy theory one more time...I seriuosly want to know if I am pulling a The Number 23 here or at least still in touch with a bit of my sanity.

D.Sharrah wrote...

Creepy eyes be damned!  I don't want this to get lost in the thread...please let me know if I am completely off my rocker...or only slightly off my rocker! 

D.Sharrah wrote...

OK crazy theory incoming...don't say that you weren't warned.
I have been reading through some of the posts over the last couple of days and something slowly has been formulating in my head.  This theory ties the events of ME 2, TIM, the Collector's, Harbinger and of course Shepard into one tight, convulted knot.  Also, this theory makes some assumptions based on the lore - so let's start with those.
Assumptions

1.  TIM having been hit by a wave from a Reaper device, has been slowly succumbing to the affects of Indoctrination.  And while his mind is still his own, it is not w/o Reaper influence (even in ME 2).

2.  Harbinger is very likely to be ReaperBieber the Starbinger.  And therefore is aware of the circular logic that is "The created will always rebel against their creators".

3.  Harbinger being the leader of the Reapers, "created" the Collector's.  Following the previously mentioned circular logic, Harbinger knew it was only a matter of time before the Collector's rebelled.  Harbinger knowing that he would lose these "tools" turned his focus to the next set...

At this point, let's go ahead and get into the theory.  At the start of ME 2 we see the Collector's destroy the Normandy and "kill" Shepard.  This was their first act of defieance against their creator, Harbinger.  Because he did not want Shepard "killed" but he wanted Sheaprd captured.  Harbinger knew that the day when the Collector's would rebel and try to destroy him was coming - but he had planned for this.  He was going to use these current tools to subtely put the machinations into work to bring him his next tools, the humans.  He would do this on two fronts, the creation of a human Reaper (which he needed the Collector's to collect the resources) and a singular consciousness that would "become" this Reaper.  That consciousness would be Shepard - the symbol of everything that humanity strived to be.  But the definace that the Collector's showed in "killing" Shepard rather than capturing Shepard - forced Harbinger to turn to plan B.

Knowing that the Collector's could no longer be trusted.  Harbinger started to influence TIM, started to influence him to save Shepard and bring him back.  It was only if he was brought back that he could become an ultimate Reaper agent.  The events of ME 2, starting with the Lazarus Project, was a Reaper design to create their next tool.  Harbinger would deftly move these two seperate forces slowly on his galactic chess board towards a confrontation.  A confrontation that regardless of its winner would lead his next greatest tool right into his tentacles.  Harbinger would "grant" TIM just enough insight to see the "patterns" of the Collector's plans slowly drawing him (and therefore Shepard) to the Collector base.  If Shepard failed to destroy the Collectors, he would be captured and prepared for upload to the human Reaper.  If he succeeded, then he would gain the clout to gather all of the opposition to a later trap.

It was a perfect plan.  A plan that would end with the Indoctrination of what the galaxy had come to know as its saviour.  How could he fail?


That's the general outline...there are more ideas rumbling around in my head...but what do you guys/gals think? 

Or you know Harbinger could just have blasted the indoctrinated Protheans to smithereens the moment he was done with them last cycle if he knew they would eventually turn upon him.

I mean it is not like they were important for the Reapers original attack plan...

[Big G13]

D.Sharrah wrote...

And since BigStig has been the only one to comment here is my crazy theory one more time...I seriuosly want to know if I am pulling a The Number 23 here or at least still in touch with a bit of my sanity.

D.Sharrah wrote...

Creepy eyes be damned!  I don't want this to get lost in the thread...please let me know if I am completely off my rocker...or only slightly off my rocker! 

D.Sharrah wrote...

OK crazy theory incoming...don't say that you weren't warned.
I have been reading through some of the posts over the last couple of days and something slowly has been formulating in my head.  This theory ties the events of ME 2, TIM, the Collector's, Harbinger and of course Shepard into one tight, convulted knot.  Also, this theory makes some assumptions based on the lore - so let's start with those.
Assumptions

1.  TIM having been hit by a wave from a Reaper device, has been slowly succumbing to the affects of Indoctrination.  And while his mind is still his own, it is not w/o Reaper influence (even in ME 2).

2.  Harbinger is very likely to be ReaperBieber the Starbinger.  And therefore is aware of the circular logic that is "The created will always rebel against their creators".

3.  Harbinger being the leader of the Reapers, "created" the Collector's.  Following the previously mentioned circular logic, Harbinger knew it was only a matter of time before the Collector's rebelled.  Harbinger knowing that he would lose these "tools" turned his focus to the next set...

At this point, let's go ahead and get into the theory.  At the start of ME 2 we see the Collector's destroy the Normandy and "kill" Shepard.  This was their first act of defieance against their creator, Harbinger.  Because he did not want Shepard "killed" but he wanted Sheaprd captured.  Harbinger knew that the day when the Collector's would rebel and try to destroy him was coming - but he had planned for this.  He was going to use these current tools to subtely put the machinations into work to bring him his next tools, the humans.  He would do this on two fronts, the creation of a human Reaper (which he needed the Collector's to collect the resources) and a singular consciousness that would "become" this Reaper.  That consciousness would be Shepard - the symbol of everything that humanity strived to be.  But the definace that the Collector's showed in "killing" Shepard rather than capturing Shepard - forced Harbinger to turn to plan B.

Knowing that the Collector's could no longer be trusted.  Harbinger started to influence TIM, started to influence him to save Shepard and bring him back.  It was only if he was brought back that he could become an ultimate Reaper agent.  The events of ME 2, starting with the Lazarus Project, was a Reaper design to create their next tool.  Harbinger would deftly move these two seperate forces slowly on his galactic chess board towards a confrontation.  A confrontation that regardless of its winner would lead his next greatest tool right into his tentacles.  Harbinger would "grant" TIM just enough insight to see the "patterns" of the Collector's plans slowly drawing him (and therefore Shepard) to the Collector base.  If Shepard failed to destroy the Collectors, he would be captured and prepared for upload to the human Reaper.  If he succeeded, then he would gain the clout to gather all of the opposition to a later trap.

It was a perfect plan.  A plan that would end with the Indoctrination of what the galaxy had come to know as its saviour.  How could he fail?


That's the general outline...there are more ideas rumbling around in my head...but what do you guys/gals think? 

It's a great theory, I just don't want to comment on it because to do so I have to consider the cold hard possible truth of it. Maybe the end of ME3 felt pointless and hopeless because it is. The Reapers have all the angles covered and every choice we made was for nought. imo your theory is so good I don't even want to look at it.
take it away. take it awaaaaay.

[D.Sharrah]

ivenoidea wrote...

D.Sharrah wrote...

ivenoidea wrote...

D.Sharrah wrote...

And since BigStig has been the only one to comment here is my crazy theory one more time...I seriuosly want to know if I am pulling a The Number 23 here or at least still in touch with a bit of my sanity.

Shh.. nobody tell him if he's insane or not. It will drive him insane!

That's just mean....

Sorry, *brohug*

Jokes aside, i think your theory makes sense and is kinda cool. 

Thanks...I wasn't being that serious with the sad face...but I felt like and edit with the word sarcasm highlighted was just too obvious.

[D.Sharrah]

paxxton wrote...

D.Sharrah wrote...

*snip*

That's the general outline...there are more ideas rumbling around in my head...but what do you guys/gals think? 

You sir, are a genius. You might have finally connected all the dots! Are you a BioWare insider?

No I am not an insider...just building on some of the ideas being discussed here...There is no way that I can hosetly say that I came up with that on my own...maybe connected a few dots, but only by making assumptions - and we all know what that can do.

[TJBartlemus]

paxxton wrote..

Nah. He might seem incoherent at moments but it's because we had no opportunity to chat with him and listen to his story. As for the "Created will always rebel against their creators" line it makes sense even with the geth/quarian war.

Well the whole thing with the Starchild, he barely gives you any information you don't already know or have possibly guessed like why reapers put organics into reaper form. All he does new is explain that you have 3 choices that weren't there before. (whole theme of game is destroy now you give me control and synthesis too?) Starchild in all realitiy does almost nothing and is just a weak medium to get you to make a choice in the crucible.

[paxxton]

D.Sharrah wrote...

paxxton wrote...

D.Sharrah wrote...

*snip*

That's the general outline...there are more ideas rumbling around in my head...but what do you guys/gals think? 

You sir, are a genius. You might have finally connected all the dots! Are you a BioWare insider?

No I am not an insider...just building on some of the ideas being discussed here...There is no way that I can hosetly say that I came up with that on my own...maybe connected a few dots, but only by making assumptions - and we all know what that can do.

Your theory explains the logic behind the starchild's thinking and finally proves that it makes sense.

What had been missing was the answer to a question why Harbinger would order the Collectors to kill Shepard if he wanted him alive. Your answer is plausible and makes the pieces of the puzzle fall in place.

Modifié par paxxton, 09 juin 2012 - 05:42 .

[Turbo_J]

D.Sharrah wrote...

And since BigStig has been the only one to comment here is my crazy theory one more time...I seriuosly want to know if I am pulling a The Number 23 here or at least still in touch with a bit of my sanity.

1.  TIM having been hit by a wave from a Reaper device, has been slowly succumbing to the affects of Indoctrination.  And while his mind is still his own, it is not w/o Reaper influence (even in ME 2).

2.  Harbinger is very likely to be ReaperBieber the Starbinger.  And therefore is aware of the circular logic that is "The created will always rebel against their creators".

3.  Harbinger being the leader of the Reapers, "created" the Collector's.  Following the previously mentioned circular logic, Harbinger knew it was only a matter of time before the Collector's rebelled.  Harbinger knowing that he would lose these "tools" turned his focus to the next set...

I like the general idea, but 3 - no.

Talk to Mordin in ME2. The collectors are mindless and consist mostly of Reaper tech. They are cloned, have no healing or reproductive capabilities and they don't even eat... they have no mouth. Even if they could rebel, it would only lead to freedom through death.

The Reapers always pick a group to use as a cycle's splinter. I suspect if they were to win this cycle, Cerberus would become to the next cycle what the collectors were to ours. It seems that even with a single Reaper hanging back to activate the Citadel, the Reapers plan B is firmly in place every cycle... In ME2, the warning about the Collectors provided by the Prothians was subtle, and optional as it was a side mission, but it confirms that the Collectors had been created more than 48,000 years ago.

[paxxton]

TJBartlemus wrote...

paxxton wrote..

Nah. He might seem incoherent at moments but it's because we had no opportunity to chat with him and listen to his story. As for the "Created will always rebel against their creators" line it makes sense even with the geth/quarian war.

Well the whole thing with the Starchild, he barely gives you any information you don't already know or have possibly guessed like why reapers put organics into reaper form. All he does new is explain that you have 3 choices that weren't there before. (whole theme of game is destroy now you give me control and synthesis too?) Starchild in all realitiy does almost nothing and is just a weak medium to get you to make a choice in the crucible.

But even if the choice is an illusion, his logic still can hold true. He presents Shepard with his reasoning and simply checks if he succumbs to that thinking.

[delldo]

Corik wrote...

Just finished my second playthrough. Feels much better to shoot the tubes now than the first time. Most notable thing to talk about... the whispers during Anderson-Shepard-TIM conversation. Just the same whispers as in the dreams. Also, the oily bushes after getting hit by Harby are weird. Don't look normal. Don't even look "real" bushes, more like illusions... can't explain

I can't think of anywhere else in the game where I have seen those bushes, besides they are two dimensional, black and oily like, they blow and stretch with the wind, and finally they look just like the crap hanging from the cieling in the hallway Shep beams up to.  What kind of bush do you know of that stretches as it blows?

[D.Sharrah]

@Raistlin - That could be. But I think a big part of what makes the Reaper's successful each cycle is their ability to play the puppeteer until the very last moment. And then strike w/surprise and deadly efficiency due to all of their well placed agents - agents that they would not have if they did not have the "tools" from the previous cycle. And the cycle itself only exists because they believe in the circular logic of "created rebelling against creators" (a circular logic, that due to the actions of the Reapers themselves is self-fulfilling).

@Big G13 - You are giving way too much credit. As I said in one of the other replies...the theory is built on alot of assumptions. That doesn't mean that they are all wrong, but that may not be all right either.

@ Thread in General - The theory I think works from the level that it makes sense that the Reapers think that they have all the angles covered - hence, the arrogance that they have with their statements that their intelligence is beyond our comprhension. But just cause my theory lays out that they think that they have all the angles covered doesn't mean guaranteed success. IMHO the Reapers have underestimated just what Shep is capable of every step of the way - which is why they haven't been able to rely on their "Plan A" attack this cycle and have had to go the the back-ups.

[ivenoidea]

delldo wrote...

Corik wrote...

Just finished my second playthrough. Feels much better to shoot the tubes now than the first time. Most notable thing to talk about... the whispers during Anderson-Shepard-TIM conversation. Just the same whispers as in the dreams. Also, the oily bushes after getting hit by Harby are weird. Don't look normal. Don't even look "real" bushes, more like illusions... can't explain

I can't think of anywhere else in the game where I have seen those bushes, besides they are two dimensional, black and oily like, they blow and stretch with the wind, and finally they look just like the crap hanging from the cieling in the hallway Shep beams up to.  What kind of bush do you know of that stretches as it blows?

For once i honestly think this might be grasping onto emergency induction ports, 2 dimensional grass is standard and cann be seen during the game. It's just black in the end.

[paxxton]

I just had an idea. What if the soldiers talking at the start of the hallucination are the last marks of reality before Shepard completely falls under the influence of Harbinger. They see everyone lying dead and hence tell the remaining forces to retreat. In their reality Shepard lies there in the rubble unconscious, presumably KIA. It would prove that Coats isn't a hallucination which always seems a bit far-fetched to me considering his constant chating with other voices via radio.

Modifié par paxxton, 09 juin 2012 - 05:55 .

[D.Sharrah]

Turbo_J wrote...

D.Sharrah wrote...

And since BigStig has been the only one to comment here is my crazy theory one more time...I seriuosly want to know if I am pulling a The Number 23 here or at least still in touch with a bit of my sanity.

1.  TIM having been hit by a wave from a Reaper device, has been slowly succumbing to the affects of Indoctrination.  And while his mind is still his own, it is not w/o Reaper influence (even in ME 2).

2.  Harbinger is very likely to be ReaperBieber the Starbinger.  And therefore is aware of the circular logic that is "The created will always rebel against their creators".

3.  Harbinger being the leader of the Reapers, "created" the Collector's.  Following the previously mentioned circular logic, Harbinger knew it was only a matter of time before the Collector's rebelled.  Harbinger knowing that he would lose these "tools" turned his focus to the next set...

I like the general idea, but 3 - no.

Talk to Mordin in ME2. The collectors are mindless and consist mostly of Reaper tech. They are cloned, have no healing or reproductive capabilities and they don't even eat... they have no mouth. Even if they could rebel, it would only lead to freedom through death.

The Reapers always pick a group to use as a cycle's splinter. I suspect if they were to win this cycle, Cerberus would become to the next cycle what the collectors were to ours. It seems that even with a single Reaper hanging back to activate the Citadel, the Reapers plan B is firmly in place every cycle... In ME2, the warning about the Collectors provided by the Prothians was subtle, and optional as it was a side mission, but it confirms that the Collectors had been created more than 48,000 years ago.

Here is a post from earlier...

bigstig wrote...

D.Sharrah wrote...

snip...

I never though about it that way, but you are right if you follow the logic through:

Collectors were created
Husks were created
Marauders were created
Brutes were created
Cannibals were created
Banshees were created.

That is going to be one hell of a rebellion that Harbinger is going to have to deal with

The difference being that Harbinger had to leave some resemblance of sentience in the Collector's or otherwise he wouldn't be able to "Assume Direct Control"...otherwise what is stopping him (or other Reapers for that matter) from doing so at any point in the trilogy with these other "creations". Also...it gives another reason for the cycle - the "new blood" in the galaxy is used to put down the "previous" cycle's potential rebellion.


I am not sure how exactly to explain it...but there is something different about the Collector's...and I think that you are onto something about Cerberus being the equivalent in this cycle...but there has to be something different about the Collector's or we would see the other Reaper ground forces subject to the "Assuming Control" thing.  I think that it still very possible that what Mordrin said about the Collector's is correct...but think of the Keepers as well - similar "construct".  For the most part completely "mindless" - so mindless in fact that they eventually were altered so that they did not respond to the Reapers.

Perhaps the sticking point here is perception vs. reality.  And all that matters is the Reaper's perception...the simple fact Harbinger (and the Reapers) perceive the possibility that the Collectors will rebel is enough.  Regardless if it will actually happen or not...