55528 réponses à ce sujet

[estebanus]

paxxton wrote...

estebanus wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...

paxxton wrote...

estebanus wrote...

Well, I'll be off again. I just wanted to share with you what I've found. Till later!

Another match...

Germany vs. Portugal.

And Portugal will kick Germany's ass!

Isn't Germany the current World Champion?

Uhm... NO. Germany was defeated by Spain in the semi-finals, who then moved on to becoming world-champions!

[ivenoidea]

I'm so happy Austria is not in the championship. Otherwise, as soon as there was a game against germany there would be a ****ton of drunk idiots yelling "Cordoba 2012!!!" at the top of their lungs FOR WEEKS.

In case anybody doesnt get the joke (which would be everyone except austrians and germans i guess), austria beat germany ONCE, and that was 40 or so years ago in Cordoba. They still hope for another "Wonder of Cordoba" every time we face the germans.

Modifié par ivenoidea, 09 juin 2012 - 06:43 .

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

D.Sharrah wrote...

Turbo_J wrote...

Snip..

The bold part is an assumption... Collectors are no more alive or individuals than a VI. Further more; "having a VI drive your body isn't life intelligence... But it would allow for direct control.

Saren was dead... dead dead... Sovereign blew every piece of organic remnants off of him when he assumed control. Reaper tech is what allows that - although Dr. Kensin is an anomaly in that respect.

But if it was a simple as that...then why doesn't Harbinger ever "assume" control over any of the other Reaper ground forces...you would think that anyone of the battles Shep has been in where he can potentially stop/delay one of their plans would be a good enough reason to see to the problem "in person".

Because hs is in the middle of the war himself and not just watching from darkspace? I dont think Harbinger buzzing around Shepard going "this hurts you" is gonna speed up the Indoctrination any more than it ever did. Plus him assuming direct control dident stop Shepard last time, no reason for him to try now if he could do it elsewhere and destroy some other human/asari/turian ect defense with direct intervention.

It is actually hinted through the Codex on Reapers that other Reapers are doing the "assuming direct control" or Saren kind of thing as it states the flaw that paralyzed Sovereign seems to have been fixed. That woudl imply Reapers ahve been doing it since they would need it to actually happen to realize the flaw is no more.

[Eryri]

D.Sharrah wrote...

And since BigStig has been the only one to comment here is my crazy theory one more time...I seriuosly want to know if I am pulling a The Number 23 here or at least still in touch with a bit of my sanity.

D.Sharrah wrote...

Creepy eyes be damned!  I don't want this to get lost in the thread...please let me know if I am completely off my rocker...or only slightly off my rocker! 

D.Sharrah wrote...

OK crazy theory incoming...don't say that you weren't warned.
I have been reading through some of the posts over the last couple of days and something slowly has been formulating in my head.  This theory ties the events of ME 2, TIM, the Collector's, Harbinger and of course Shepard into one tight, convulted knot.  Also, this theory makes some assumptions based on the lore - so let's start with those.
Assumptions

1.  TIM having been hit by a wave from a Reaper device, has been slowly succumbing to the affects of Indoctrination.  And while his mind is still his own, it is not w/o Reaper influence (even in ME 2).

2.  Harbinger is very likely to be ReaperBieber the Starbinger.  And therefore is aware of the circular logic that is "The created will always rebel against their creators".

3.  Harbinger being the leader of the Reapers, "created" the Collector's.  Following the previously mentioned circular logic, Harbinger knew it was only a matter of time before the Collector's rebelled.  Harbinger knowing that he would lose these "tools" turned his focus to the next set...

At this point, let's go ahead and get into the theory.  At the start of ME 2 we see the Collector's destroy the Normandy and "kill" Shepard.  This was their first act of defieance against their creator, Harbinger.  Because he did not want Shepard "killed" but he wanted Sheaprd captured.  Harbinger knew that the day when the Collector's would rebel and try to destroy him was coming - but he had planned for this.  He was going to use these current tools to subtely put the machinations into work to bring him his next tools, the humans.  He would do this on two fronts, the creation of a human Reaper (which he needed the Collector's to collect the resources) and a singular consciousness that would "become" this Reaper.  That consciousness would be Shepard - the symbol of everything that humanity strived to be.  But the definace that the Collector's showed in "killing" Shepard rather than capturing Shepard - forced Harbinger to turn to plan B.

Knowing that the Collector's could no longer be trusted.  Harbinger started to influence TIM, started to influence him to save Shepard and bring him back.  It was only if he was brought back that he could become an ultimate Reaper agent.  The events of ME 2, starting with the Lazarus Project, was a Reaper design to create their next tool.  Harbinger would deftly move these two seperate forces slowly on his galactic chess board towards a confrontation.  A confrontation that regardless of its winner would lead his next greatest tool right into his tentacles.  Harbinger would "grant" TIM just enough insight to see the "patterns" of the Collector's plans slowly drawing him (and therefore Shepard) to the Collector base.  If Shepard failed to destroy the Collectors, he would be captured and prepared for upload to the human Reaper.  If he succeeded, then he would gain the clout to gather all of the opposition to a later trap.

It was a perfect plan.  A plan that would end with the Indoctrination of what the galaxy had come to know as its saviour.  How could he fail?


That's the general outline...there are more ideas rumbling around in my head...but what do you guys/gals think? 

Sorry to be late in replying to this. I think it's a great idea. It would explain why the reaper's servants in this cycle just happen to be a race from the previous cycle. If the Reapers have been doing what they do for millions of years, the galaxy should be choc full of Collector type species. It makes sense that they would clear out the old stock every now and again.

I also like the Machievellian angle. The reapers are scary enough as giant killing machines, the idea that they're also geniuses that are 5 steps ahead of every move you could possibly make is terrifying.

The only negative point I would raise is - if Harbinger can't trust the Collectors to capture Shepard alive, why would he trust them with the far more important job of building a new reaper?

Modifié par Eryri, 09 juin 2012 - 06:45 .

[paxxton]

estebanus wrote...

paxxton wrote...

estebanus wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...

paxxton wrote...

estebanus wrote...

Well, I'll be off again. I just wanted to share with you what I've found. Till later!

Another match...

Germany vs. Portugal.

And Portugal will kick Germany's ass!

Isn't Germany the current World Champion?

Uhm... NO. Germany was defeated by Spain in the semi-finals, who then moved on to becoming world-champions!

Oh, OK.

[MaximizedAction]

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

D.Sharrah wrote...

Turbo_J wrote...

Snip..

The bold part is an assumption... Collectors are no more alive or individuals than a VI. Further more; "having a VI drive your body isn't life intelligence... But it would allow for direct control.

Saren was dead... dead dead... Sovereign blew every piece of organic remnants off of him when he assumed control. Reaper tech is what allows that - although Dr. Kensin is an anomaly in that respect.

But if it was a simple as that...then why doesn't Harbinger ever "assume" control over any of the other Reaper ground forces...you would think that anyone of the battles Shep has been in where he can potentially stop/delay one of their plans would be a good enough reason to see to the problem "in person".

Because hs is in the middle of the war himself and not just watching from darkspace? I dont think Harbinger buzzing around Shepard going "this hurts you" is gonna speed up the Indoctrination any more than it ever did. Plus him assuming direct control dident stop Shepard last time, no reason for him to try now if he could do it elsewhere and destroy some other human/asari/turian ect defense with direct intervention.

It is actually hinted through the Codex on Reapers that other Reapers are doing the "assuming direct control" or Saren kind of thing as it states the flaw that paralyzed Sovereign seems to have been fixed. That woudl imply Reapers ahve been doing it since they would need it to actually happen to realize the flaw is no more.

I think we would've been "Assuming direct control"-ed of if the game mechanics thing worked out -- if you remember that little bit of information from the "Final Hours" app.

Modifié par MaximizedAction, 09 juin 2012 - 06:48 .

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

paxxton wrote...

D.Sharrah wrote...

paxxton wrote...

D.Sharrah wrote...

*snip*

That's the general outline...there are more ideas rumbling around in my head...but what do you guys/gals think? 

You sir, are a genius. You might have finally connected all the dots! Are you a BioWare insider?

No I am not an insider...just building on some of the ideas being discussed here...There is no way that I can hosetly say that I came up with that on my own...maybe connected a few dots, but only by making assumptions - and we all know what that can do.

Your theory explains the logic behind the starchild's thinking and finally proves that it makes sense.

What had been missing was the answer to a question why Harbinger would order the Collectors to kill Shepard if he wanted him alive. Your answer is plausible and makes the pieces of the puzzle fall in place.

No it makes no sense at all.

If harbinger knew the Collectors woudl turn upon him sooner or later the logical solution is to blow them to bits while you still have them under your complete control, like at the end of the Prothean cycle when everything else has been done. Hell Sovereign could do the cleanup alone while waiting for the next cycle anyway.

Remember the Collectors were not needed at all for the Reapers invasion, they were merely an asset they could use. If they are gonna turn upon you, blow them up.

Also they havent turned upon the Reapers since a mail updating the war effort on Palaven mentions Collector forces.

Edit: Here is the exact quote, was codex, not mail. My bad.

The Reapers did not understand the seriousness of the threat at
first--those that detected the landing crafts sent husks and Collector
swarms to intercept them, but little more. This allowed krogan commandos
to link up with Palaven's resistance and hand off their payloads--warp
bombs and fission weapons.

Modifié par Raistlin Majare 1992, 09 juin 2012 - 06:55 .

[D.Sharrah]

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

D.Sharrah wrote...

Turbo_J wrote...

Snip..

The bold part is an assumption... Collectors are no more alive or individuals than a VI. Further more; "having a VI drive your body isn't life intelligence... But it would allow for direct control.

Saren was dead... dead dead... Sovereign blew every piece of organic remnants off of him when he assumed control. Reaper tech is what allows that - although Dr. Kensin is an anomaly in that respect.

But if it was a simple as that...then why doesn't Harbinger ever "assume" control over any of the other Reaper ground forces...you would think that anyone of the battles Shep has been in where he can potentially stop/delay one of their plans would be a good enough reason to see to the problem "in person".

Because hs is in the middle of the war himself and not just watching from darkspace? I dont think Harbinger buzzing around Shepard going "this hurts you" is gonna speed up the Indoctrination any more than it ever did. Plus him assuming direct control dident stop Shepard last time, no reason for him to try now if he could do it elsewhere and destroy some other human/asari/turian ect defense with direct intervention.

It is actually hinted through the Codex on Reapers that other Reapers are doing the "assuming direct control" or Saren kind of thing as it states the flaw that paralyzed Sovereign seems to have been fixed. That woudl imply Reapers ahve been doing it since they would need it to actually happen to realize the flaw is no more.

What you say makes sense...I guess it is a part of the theory that still needs work...I still think that there is something there that we are not making the connection with that will tie all the threads together.

[balance5050]

The Prothean cipher man.... it's the key.

[D.Sharrah]

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

paxxton wrote...

D.Sharrah wrote...

paxxton wrote...

D.Sharrah wrote...

*snip*

That's the general outline...there are more ideas rumbling around in my head...but what do you guys/gals think? 

You sir, are a genius. You might have finally connected all the dots! Are you a BioWare insider?

No I am not an insider...just building on some of the ideas being discussed here...There is no way that I can hosetly say that I came up with that on my own...maybe connected a few dots, but only by making assumptions - and we all know what that can do.

Your theory explains the logic behind the starchild's thinking and finally proves that it makes sense.

What had been missing was the answer to a question why Harbinger would order the Collectors to kill Shepard if he wanted him alive. Your answer is plausible and makes the pieces of the puzzle fall in place.

No it makes no sense at all.

If harbinger knew the Collectors woudl turn upon him sooner or later the logical solution is to blow them to bits while you still have them under your complete control, like at the end of the Prothean cycle when everything else has been done. Hell Sovereign could do the cleanup alone while waiting for the next cycle anyway.

Remember the Collectors were not needed at all for the Reapers invasion, they were merely an asset they could use. If they are gonna turn upon you, blow them up.

Also they havent turned upon the Reapers since a mail updating the war effort on Palaven mentions Collector forces.

Take an example from another piece of fiction...Voldermort doesn't come right out and try to take the Magic world with force because being able to work from the shadows he has more flexibility...the Reapers use the Collectorsin much the same way...by having an "agent" to do their bidding, they can stay hidden in the shadows until its too late to be stopped.  Something that had success with the Keepers and so continue to use it/

[MaximizedAction]

balance5050 wrote...

The Prothean cipher man.... it's the key.

The Dude agrees!

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

D.Sharrah wrote...

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

paxxton wrote...

D.Sharrah wrote...

paxxton wrote...

D.Sharrah wrote...

*snip*

That's the general outline...there are more ideas rumbling around in my head...but what do you guys/gals think? 

You sir, are a genius. You might have finally connected all the dots! Are you a BioWare insider?

No I am not an insider...just building on some of the ideas being discussed here...There is no way that I can hosetly say that I came up with that on my own...maybe connected a few dots, but only by making assumptions - and we all know what that can do.

Your theory explains the logic behind the starchild's thinking and finally proves that it makes sense.

What had been missing was the answer to a question why Harbinger would order the Collectors to kill Shepard if he wanted him alive. Your answer is plausible and makes the pieces of the puzzle fall in place.

No it makes no sense at all.

If harbinger knew the Collectors woudl turn upon him sooner or later the logical solution is to blow them to bits while you still have them under your complete control, like at the end of the Prothean cycle when everything else has been done. Hell Sovereign could do the cleanup alone while waiting for the next cycle anyway.

Remember the Collectors were not needed at all for the Reapers invasion, they were merely an asset they could use. If they are gonna turn upon you, blow them up.

Also they havent turned upon the Reapers since a mail updating the war effort on Palaven mentions Collector forces.

Take an example from another piece of fiction...Voldermort doesn't come right out and try to take the Magic world with force because being able to work from the shadows he has more flexibility...the Reapers use the Collectorsin much the same way...by having an "agent" to do their bidding, they can stay hidden in the shadows until its too late to be stopped.  Something that had success with the Keepers and so continue to use it/

Except it is no longer a positive thing if your forces are gonna turn upon you sooner or later, even worse that they are doing it allready. If you dont have complete control over something like that it is safer to wipe it out.

And you ignore that Collector forces are still fighting alongside the Reapers as as I quoted and that the Reapers put what you have claimed is untrustworthy servants to build their newest Reaper.

The problem with this theory are massive.

[balance5050]

MaximizedAction wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

The Prothean cipher man.... it's the key.

The Dude agrees!

You know why it's the key?

"Commander Shepard gained the Cipher with the help of Shiala, an asari formerly working for Saren who was offered as a 'sacrifice' to the Thorian. The Thorian itself gained the Cipher after it watched and studied the Protheans on Feros, even consuming some of them when they died and assimilating their knowledge. When Shiala melded with the Thorian, she shared the Thorian's consciousness, and thus gained the Cipher left by the long-dead Protheans. After explaining its importance, Shiala transferred the Cipher directly to Shepard's mind. The experience left the Commander badly shaken, but was necessary to find the Conduit."

Perhaps this is why the traditional method of indoctrination (assuming control) was never performed on Shepard, also it may be why Shepard has a chance to shake it off and continue the fight.

Also try not to forget this:

"Shiala is the only individual who has managed to completely overcome Sovereign's indoctrination without resorting to suicide. This is likely because she was linked directly to the ancient Thorian and 'indoctrinated' by the plant being in turn. After the Thorian died her mind was her own again."

If they were to make a full circle game that explains everything, this would be it IMO.

EDIT:

This is from ME3 so you don't think that just becasue the plant is dead it would be a factor:

If Shiala survived, Commander Shepard will receive an email detailing how the colonists on Feros are fighting theReapers. Due to the Thorian spores, colonists are given an uncanny ability to sense one another, allowing them to think and act as one in battle. The long-term consequences of this connection are unknown, but helpful for the time being.Shiala also mentions that she feels as though she is still indoctrinated, as she can feel the Reapers' influence in her mind. However, she says that this is overridden by her connections to the other colonists.

Modifié par balance5050, 09 juin 2012 - 07:18 .

[Starbuck8]

D.Sharrah wrote...

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

D.Sharrah wrote...

Turbo_J wrote...

Snip..

The bold part is an assumption... Collectors are no more alive or individuals than a VI. Further more; "having a VI drive your body isn't life intelligence... But it would allow for direct control.

Saren was dead... dead dead... Sovereign blew every piece of organic remnants off of him when he assumed control. Reaper tech is what allows that - although Dr. Kensin is an anomaly in that respect.

But if it was a simple as that...then why doesn't Harbinger ever "assume" control over any of the other Reaper ground forces...you would think that anyone of the battles Shep has been in where he can potentially stop/delay one of their plans would be a good enough reason to see to the problem "in person".

Because hs is in the middle of the war himself and not just watching from darkspace? I dont think Harbinger buzzing around Shepard going "this hurts you" is gonna speed up the Indoctrination any more than it ever did. Plus him assuming direct control dident stop Shepard last time, no reason for him to try now if he could do it elsewhere and destroy some other human/asari/turian ect defense with direct intervention.

It is actually hinted through the Codex on Reapers that other Reapers are doing the "assuming direct control" or Saren kind of thing as it states the flaw that paralyzed Sovereign seems to have been fixed. That woudl imply Reapers ahve been doing it since they would need it to actually happen to realize the flaw is no more.

What you say makes sense...I guess it is a part of the theory that still needs work...I still think that there is something there that we are not making the connection with that will tie all the threads together.

I'll admit I have a hard time getting behind the idea that the collectors are rebelling or starting to rebel. But I do like your theory, it's very interesting, maybe needs some refinement? Anyway, would it help your theory to add that the collectors were doing genetic experiments on themselves, if I remember from ME2 correctly. Maybe they're trying to figure out how to break away from reaper control. (devils advocate: Could be harbinger directing them to perfect his creation)
idk

[UrgentArchengel]

@Balance
That definiately would be awesome. It gives the cipher something important plot-wise again. And Shiala is the second hottest Asari in my opinion. It the green skin I tell you, lol.

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

balance5050 wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

The Prothean cipher man.... it's the key.

The Dude agrees!

You know why it's the key?

"Commander Shepard gained the Cipher with the help of Shiala, an asari formerly working for Saren who was offered as a 'sacrifice' to the Thorian. The Thorian itself gained the Cipher after it watched and studied the Protheans on Feros, even consuming some of them when they died and assimilating their knowledge. When Shiala melded with the Thorian, she shared the Thorian's consciousness, and thus gained the Cipher left by the long-dead Protheans. After explaining its importance, Shiala transferred the Cipher directly to Shepard's mind. The experience left the Commander badly shaken, but was necessary to find the Conduit."

Perhaps this is why the traditional method of indoctrination (assuming control) was never performed on Shepard, also it may be why Shepard has a chance to shake it off and continue the fight.

Also try not to forget this:

"Shiala is the only individual who has managed to completely overcome Sovereign's indoctrination without resorting to suicide. This is likely because she was linked directly to the ancient Thorian and 'indoctrinated' by the plant being in turn. After the Thorian died her mind was her own again."

If they were to make a full circle game that explains everything, this would be it IMO/

Remember Shiala is hearing the Reapers voices and would fall under their influence was she not still linked with the other colonists through the Thorians Spores (she mentions this in mail she sends to Shepard in ME3), essentailly a hivemind like effect which allow to block out the Reaper voices. It is also what allows her to share her commando training with the rest of the colonist making them damn effective at fending of the Reaper forces.

Curiusly another creature exhibiting hivemind like qualities is also reistant to Indoctrination, the Rachni. I dont think that is coincedence.

Also I am pretty sure "assuming direct control" only can be done when a person has fallen completely under the Reapers Indoctrination and might even require implants to faciliate the Reaper takeover.

Modifié par Raistlin Majare 1992, 09 juin 2012 - 07:18 .

[balance5050]

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

The Prothean cipher man.... it's the key.

The Dude agrees!

You know why it's the key?

"Commander Shepard gained the Cipher with the help of Shiala, an asari formerly working for Saren who was offered as a 'sacrifice' to the Thorian. The Thorian itself gained the Cipher after it watched and studied the Protheans on Feros, even consuming some of them when they died and assimilating their knowledge. When Shiala melded with the Thorian, she shared the Thorian's consciousness, and thus gained the Cipher left by the long-dead Protheans. After explaining its importance, Shiala transferred the Cipher directly to Shepard's mind. The experience left the Commander badly shaken, but was necessary to find the Conduit."

Perhaps this is why the traditional method of indoctrination (assuming control) was never performed on Shepard, also it may be why Shepard has a chance to shake it off and continue the fight.

Also try not to forget this:

"Shiala is the only individual who has managed to completely overcome Sovereign's indoctrination without resorting to suicide. This is likely because she was linked directly to the ancient Thorian and 'indoctrinated' by the plant being in turn. After the Thorian died her mind was her own again."

If they were to make a full circle game that explains everything, this would be it IMO/

Remember Shiala is hearing the Reapers voices and would fall under their influence was she not still linked with the other colonists through the Thorians Spores (she mentions this in mail she sends to Shepard in ME3), essentailly a hivemind like effect which allow to block out the Reaper voices. It is also what allows her to share her commando training with the rest of the colonist making them damn effective at fending of the Reaper forces.

Curiusly another creature exhibiting hivemind like qualities is also reistant to Indoctrination, the Rachni. I dont think that is coincedence.

Also I am pretty sure "assuming direct control" only can be done when a person has fallen completely under the Reapers Indoctrination and might even require implants to faciliate the Reaper takeover.

Right, I edited in the part about the link to the other colonists, potentially Shepard could be connectted to these people as well, possibly Javic too becasue it's a "Prothean" cipher.... but he's DLC so I won't go into that.

[Rifneno]

paxxton wrote...

estebanus wrote...

paxxton wrote...

estebanus wrote...

Wow, a supposed "leak" about ME3 was just released on reddit. And believe me, it certainly supports Arian Dynas' theory about ME3!
Read it now!
http://social.biowar...ndex/12493228/1

I admit that you usually post interesting links but could you please make them hyperlinks. It'll be easier to click on them.

Ah, sorry. I'm not really sure how

Unfortunately, you have to use the extended form.

Not true, you just need to know the BBCode. So the code doesn't actually work and you can see it, I'm going to replace the [ and ]'s with { and }'s. Remember to use [ and ]'s instead of { and }'s. Example:
{url=http://www.address.com}Text you want the link to say{/url}

Eryri wrote...

The only negative point I would raise is - if Harbinger can't trust the Collectors to capture Shepard alive, why would he trust them with the far more important job of building a new reaper?

You say that as if "capture Shepard alive" is a trivial task.

Anyway, on that theory I'm inclined to believe Mordin that the Collectors didn't even have minds of their own left. There was nothing left of them to rebel. For all intents and purposes they were just Prothean husks.

[Big Bad]

MaximizedAction wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

The Prothean cipher man.... it's the key.

The Dude agrees!

The Dude abides, man.  The Dude abides.  

[Turbo_J]

TJBartlemus wrote...

@Turbo_J Have you ever noticed that there are only Prothean (species) collectors? Javik said they conquered all the other civilizations and were eventually also called Prothean but where are the other species? And if they only changed Javik's people then would the Humans be the only species chosen to be the next cycle's collectors?

Not sure. Humans were a viable species to create a reaper from. EDI postulated that the Protheans may have either put up too much of a fight or were found out later to not be as viable as the Reapers first thought.

It would stand to Reason that Humans may end up doing the same thing in a 'lose' situation, but I'm assuming that won't happen. At least it won't in my cycle. They are dead. Finished! Dammit!

As for not seeing other species, I guess it depends on their usefulness in the beginning of a cycle. The species who end up being the most broadly accessible and best sleeper agents probably gets that task. Given the Protheans ran the cycle, it seems reasonable. If humans had not been the 'bullies' they are, as Liara put it in ME1, then it may have been the Asari who were tasked with splinter group duties. However, they were not viable for Reaper reproduction: There is a two fold reason for that I've been tossing around so I'll expound on it in a bit.

If the Asari were the splinter group, Humans still may have ended up being the Reaper reproduction target because of their genetics. I think the end of ME1 and the start of ME2 after Sheps revival was a targeting turning point on the Reapers part. It seemed clear at first, with the destruction of the Normandy, that Harbi had simply told the collectors to 'kill that bit ch'.

The Asari:

With the revelation of the genetic modification the Asari received as part of their 'nudging' by the Protheans; (implications I hate for the record), it could be possible this was far more than enhancing Biotic abilities that already existed by nature. It could have been to make them non-viable to the Reapers. Only Ardat-Yachti can be turned into husks and they seem to be difficult to Indoctrinate. They had started to develop the communication capabilities similar to the Protheans; referred to by Javik as the Cosmic Imperative, but we don't know much about it beyond that. I do think the Protheans saw another potential the Asari offered that few other species do... Long life. Krogans don't count. The are inherently violent and... they can't share memories.

Sapien/Living Beacons

It takes one Asari and any complex animal or some radioactivity to produce a population; (Asari are resistant to radioactivity as evidenced by Liara; standing in space or on planets without full protection. They also don't get cancer from Eezo - they actually eat it.) The Asari live for a 1000 years. A single Asari could repopulate the galaxy, diplomatically engage the other races to help as species 'matured' and be prepared for the reapers with ease by the beginning of the next cycle... and every one of them would know everything about the Reapers thanks to melding.

If the next cycle were to fail, it would only take one Asari surviving to repeat the process and alter tactics to try again.

Anyone who hates Liara or even the Asari would really frown upon this, but it's just too obviously possible.

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

balance5050 wrote...

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

The Prothean cipher man.... it's the key.

The Dude agrees!

You know why it's the key?

"Commander Shepard gained the Cipher with the help of Shiala, an asari formerly working for Saren who was offered as a 'sacrifice' to the Thorian. The Thorian itself gained the Cipher after it watched and studied the Protheans on Feros, even consuming some of them when they died and assimilating their knowledge. When Shiala melded with the Thorian, she shared the Thorian's consciousness, and thus gained the Cipher left by the long-dead Protheans. After explaining its importance, Shiala transferred the Cipher directly to Shepard's mind. The experience left the Commander badly shaken, but was necessary to find the Conduit."

Perhaps this is why the traditional method of indoctrination (assuming control) was never performed on Shepard, also it may be why Shepard has a chance to shake it off and continue the fight.

Also try not to forget this:

"Shiala is the only individual who has managed to completely overcome Sovereign's indoctrination without resorting to suicide. This is likely because she was linked directly to the ancient Thorian and 'indoctrinated' by the plant being in turn. After the Thorian died her mind was her own again."

If they were to make a full circle game that explains everything, this would be it IMO/

Remember Shiala is hearing the Reapers voices and would fall under their influence was she not still linked with the other colonists through the Thorians Spores (she mentions this in mail she sends to Shepard in ME3), essentailly a hivemind like effect which allow to block out the Reaper voices. It is also what allows her to share her commando training with the rest of the colonist making them damn effective at fending of the Reaper forces.

Curiusly another creature exhibiting hivemind like qualities is also reistant to Indoctrination, the Rachni. I dont think that is coincedence.

Also I am pretty sure "assuming direct control" only can be done when a person has fallen completely under the Reapers Indoctrination and might even require implants to faciliate the Reaper takeover.

Right, I edited in the part about the link to the other colonists, potentially Shepard could be connectted to these people as well, possibly Javic too becasue it's a "Prothean" cipher.... but he's DLC so I won't go into that.

Potentially yes, but then he would probably exhibit the side effects they had of sharing thoughts and abilities...wait, sharing abilities...

...holy ****...

We need to replicate those spores and apply them to everyone near Shepard right now! Imagine if every single grunt in the entire armada fought with the skill of Commander Shepard...

Then I would believe in a conventional victory

But in all seriusness we would need Shiala and the Colonist near Shepard for the effect to kick in...and commando skill or not i doubt the colonists are on the front lines anywhere but in Zhu´s Hope.

But there is always the Rachni Queen (if you saved her) who can link minds with people and she is definetly somewhere nearby (as in somewhere in Sol system) in the final battle. But the Rachni theory I have allready repeated way to many times

Modifié par Raistlin Majare 1992, 09 juin 2012 - 07:29 .

[Big Bad]

Raistlin Majare 1992 said:

...snip...

But there is always the Rachni Queen (if you saved her) who can link minds with people and she is definetly somewhere nearby (as in somewhere in Sol system) in the final battle. But the Rachni theory I have allready repeated way to many times

I really hope that the Rachni Queen gets to do something awesome in the EC (or other ending DLC, should they exist in the future).  Saving/killing her is one choice that I really, really want to have a substantive effect in the end.

Modifié par Big Bad, 09 juin 2012 - 07:32 .

[Turbo_J]

Starbuck8 wrote...

D.Sharrah wrote...

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

D.Sharrah wrote...

Turbo_J wrote...

Snip..

The bold part is an assumption... Collectors are no more alive or individuals than a VI. Further more; "having a VI drive your body isn't life intelligence... But it would allow for direct control.

Saren was dead... dead dead... Sovereign blew every piece of organic remnants off of him when he assumed control. Reaper tech is what allows that - although Dr. Kensin is an anomaly in that respect.

But if it was a simple as that...then why doesn't Harbinger ever "assume" control over any of the other Reaper ground forces...you would think that anyone of the battles Shep has been in where he can potentially stop/delay one of their plans would be a good enough reason to see to the problem "in person".

Because hs is in the middle of the war himself and not just watching from darkspace? I dont think Harbinger buzzing around Shepard going "this hurts you" is gonna speed up the Indoctrination any more than it ever did. Plus him assuming direct control dident stop Shepard last time, no reason for him to try now if he could do it elsewhere and destroy some other human/asari/turian ect defense with direct intervention.

It is actually hinted through the Codex on Reapers that other Reapers are doing the "assuming direct control" or Saren kind of thing as it states the flaw that paralyzed Sovereign seems to have been fixed. That woudl imply Reapers ahve been doing it since they would need it to actually happen to realize the flaw is no more.

What you say makes sense...I guess it is a part of the theory that still needs work...I still think that there is something there that we are not making the connection with that will tie all the threads together.

I'll admit I have a hard time getting behind the idea that the collectors are rebelling or starting to rebel. But I do like your theory, it's very interesting, maybe needs some refinement? Anyway, would it help your theory to add that the collectors were doing genetic experiments on themselves, if I remember from ME2 correctly. Maybe they're trying to figure out how to break away from reaper control. (devils advocate: Could be harbinger directing them to perfect his creation)
idk

They were doing a comparative analysis to humans. The only species in the current cycle that had as complex a genetic structure. Although I like the mundane or Occam's Razor explanation regarding the Reapers motives, one thing that does put a 'fly in the lotion' is their interest in the most complex and genetically diverse species of a cycle. It's not the most advanced, although it's easy to mistake that as their motivation.

[paxxton]

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

paxxton wrote...

D.Sharrah wrote...

paxxton wrote...

D.Sharrah wrote...

*snip*

That's the general outline...there are more ideas rumbling around in my head...but what do you guys/gals think? 

You sir, are a genius. You might have finally connected all the dots! Are you a BioWare insider?

No I am not an insider...just building on some of the ideas being discussed here...There is no way that I can hosetly say that I came up with that on my own...maybe connected a few dots, but only by making assumptions - and we all know what that can do.

Your theory explains the logic behind the starchild's thinking and finally proves that it makes sense.

What had been missing was the answer to a question why Harbinger would order the Collectors to kill Shepard if he wanted him alive. Your answer is plausible and makes the pieces of the puzzle fall in place.

No it makes no sense at all.

If harbinger knew the Collectors woudl turn upon him sooner or later the logical solution is to blow them to bits while you still have them under your complete control, like at the end of the Prothean cycle when everything else has been done. Hell Sovereign could do the cleanup alone while waiting for the next cycle anyway.

Remember the Collectors were not needed at all for the Reapers invasion, they were merely an asset they could use. If they are gonna turn upon you, blow them up.

Also they havent turned upon the Reapers since a mail updating the war effort on Palaven mentions Collector forces.

Edit: Here is the exact quote, was codex, not mail. My bad.

The Reapers did not understand the seriousness of the threat at
first--those that detected the landing crafts sent husks and Collector
swarms to intercept them, but little more. This allowed krogan commandos
to link up with Palaven's resistance and hand off their payloads--warp
bombs and fission weapons.

If the Reapers decided to destroy the Collectors in advance they wouldn't have any servants in the Milky Way while floating in the Dark Space. The problem isn't that the Reapers can't do that but that they needed the Collectors and have waited until they really rebel, not just make a single diversion (killing Shepard).

[UrgentArchengel]

Here's my little theory on IT related things.

Was IT planned from the beginning? No.

I say this because the leaked script from back in November was basically the same thing we got in the end. They said they were going to change it, but it never happened. Here's what I think.

I believe what Bioware did was they had the game practically done, all that was missing was polish and MP stuff. But they needed to fix the ending. Somebody must have brought up the indoctrination idea, and to which, they all agreed. From there they cut stuff from the Starbringer part, added a Shepard live's cut scene, and threw in a bunch of hints to the player. To make a long story short, They decided to use the crappy ending as an indoctrination attempt to save themselves the effort of having to make a new ending with a practically zero budget.

I hope that made sense, I am really bad at expressing ideas.