55528 réponses à ce sujet

[BleedingUranium]

byne wrote...

paxxton wrote...

It's irrelevant what the geth wanted or what they did. The important part was that they did something that the quarians didn't want. 

Parents just tell them to go to bed. This is a form of pacifying a rebellous child. Rebellion doesn't have to be about fighting with arms and fists.

It always seems to boil down to that when talking to anyone making excuses for the quarians.

Because slavery is ok as long as you make the slaves yourself!

See my above post on the last page

Modifié par BleedingUranium, 09 juin 2012 - 09:43 .

[Beastpwnguy7]

Not sure if you all have heard but there is yet another leak for mass effect 3 stuff

http://www.reddit.co..._to_believe_me/

Basically it's another multiplayer dlc that has three new levels all on earth including London. He also has details on the extended cut, so it seems the two coincide in some way.

Apparently, this is coming from the same guy that told us about the rebellion dlc, and he was pretty damn accurate. If this is true, Arian Dynas is right on the mark with his theory about how BioWare was going to handle this whole thing. Looks promising

[paxxton]

byne wrote...

paxxton wrote...

It's irrelevant what the geth wanted or what they did. The important part was that they did something that the quarians didn't want. 

Parents just tell them to go to bed. This is a form of pacifying a rebellous child. Rebellion doesn't have to be about fighting with arms and fists.

It always seems to boil down to that when talking to anyone making excuses for the quarians.

Because slavery is ok as long as you make the slaves yourself!

LOL. I didn't mean it's absolutely unimportant. It's just irrelevant to the discussion at hand (about Starchild's line on created and creators).

I do not say that slavery is ok. Far from that. I don't approve of what the quarians did to the geth. In fact I had to choose between the quarians and the geth and I chose the geth because they were the good ones.

Modifié par paxxton, 09 juin 2012 - 09:47 .

[estebanus]

Beastpwnguy7 wrote...

Not sure if you all have heard but there is yet another leak for mass effect 3 stuff

http://www.reddit.co..._to_believe_me/

Basically it's another multiplayer dlc that has three new levels all on earth including London. He also has details on the extended cut, so it seems the two coincide in some way.

Apparently, this is coming from the same guy that told us about the rebellion dlc, and he was pretty damn accurate. If this is true, Arian Dynas is right on the mark with his theory about how BioWare was going to handle this whole thing. Looks promising

I posted that earlier today, but good find, nonetheless!

Modifié par estebanus, 09 juin 2012 - 09:49 .

[gunslinger_ruiz]

About to leave the house for a bit but was thinking about something, a conversation with Ashely in 3

Concerning indoctrination she says something like: "How are you supposed to fight something that can worm its way into your head??"

Shepard can respond: "By not having any other choice." Not an exact quote but I'm sure I heard the word choice in there, someone feel free to correct me. Anyway, if it is what's said then that can be a bit of foreshadowing concerning our choices (if IT is true).

[estebanus]

Also, Germany beat Portugal! NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[byne]

paxxton wrote...

byne wrote...

paxxton wrote...

It's irrelevant what the geth wanted or what they did. The important part was that they did something that the quarians didn't want. 

Parents just tell them to go to bed. This is a form of pacifying a rebellous child. Rebellion doesn't have to be about fighting with arms and fists.

It always seems to boil down to that when talking to anyone making excuses for the quarians.

Because slavery is ok as long as you make the slaves yourself!

LOL. I didn't mean it's absolutely unimportant. It's just irrelevant to the discussion at hand (about Starchild's line on created and creators).

I do not say that slavery is ok. Far from that. I don't approve of what the quarians did to the geth. In fact I had to choose between the quarians and the geth and I chose the geth because they were the good ones.

But arent you in favor of control if the endings are all literal? Or am I thinking of someone else?

Either way, the geth gaining sentience is not exactly rebellion when you take into account the fact that the quarians were skirting around the anti-AI laws when making the geth. It was inevitable they'd gain sentience when you ignore the laws in place to prohibit such a thing from happening.

[paxxton]

Beastpwnguy7 wrote...

Not sure if you all have heard but there is yet another leak for mass effect 3 stuff

http://www.reddit.co..._to_believe_me/

Basically it's another multiplayer dlc that has three new levels all on earth including London. He also has details on the extended cut, so it seems the two coincide in some way.

Apparently, this is coming from the same guy that told us about the rebellion dlc, and he was pretty damn accurate. If this is true, Arian Dynas is right on the mark with his theory about how BioWare was going to handle this whole thing. Looks promising

Yeah, I saw it. They say they'll give us new cities for MP. So maybe the EC will also feature them.

[BleedingUranium]

Beastpwnguy7 wrote...

Not sure if you all have heard but there is yet another leak for mass effect 3 stuff

http://www.reddit.co..._to_believe_me/

Basically it's another multiplayer dlc that has three new levels all on earth including London. He also has details on the extended cut, so it seems the two coincide in some way.

Apparently, this is coming from the same guy that told us about the rebellion dlc, and he was pretty damn accurate. If this is true, Arian Dynas is right on the mark with his theory about how BioWare was going to handle this whole thing. Looks promising

We saw it, but thanks for bringing it up! We might not have seen it, and I'm sure not everyone here has!

paxxton wrote...

byne wrote...

paxxton wrote...

It's irrelevant what the geth wanted or what they did. The important part was that they did something that the quarians didn't want. 

Parents just tell them to go to bed. This is a form of pacifying a rebellous child. Rebellion doesn't have to be about fighting with arms and fists.

It always seems to boil down to that when talking to anyone making excuses for the quarians.

Because slavery is ok as long as you make the slaves yourself!

LOL. I didn't mean it's absolutely unimportant. It's just irrelevant to the discussion at hand (about Starchild's line on created and creators).

I do not say that slavery is ok. Far from that. I don't approve of what the quarians did to the geth. In fact I had to choose between the quarians and the geth and I chose the geth because they were the good ones.

Oh, I see, you just mean it makes sense from Starbinger's point of view. That doesn't change the fact that he still assumes the created will always rebel against their creators. Please see my post on the last page.

Modifié par BleedingUranium, 09 juin 2012 - 09:51 .

[paxxton]

estebanus wrote...

Also, Germany beat Portugal! NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yay!

[paxxton]

I have to go for sometime. I'll try to answer the questions when I'm back.

[byne]

lol.

I went to watch the godchild conversation on youtube.

One of the top comments:

Catalyst: The created will always rebel against their creator.

Shepard: But I managed to secure peaceful co-existence between the Quarian and Geth, doesn't that prove your hypothesis to be wrong?

Catalyst: Y-you have a hard choice ahead of you.

Shepard: And by your own logic, if you created the Reapers, why haven't they rebelled against you yet?

Catalyst: Choose wis-

Shepard: Why should I do as you say? So far you have proven to be very untrustworthy.

Catalyst: BECAUSE **** YOU, THAT'S WHY!

Sounds about right.

Modifié par byne, 09 juin 2012 - 09:57 .

[estebanus]

paxxton wrote...

estebanus wrote...

Also, Germany beat Portugal! NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yay!

...:crying::crying:

[D.Sharrah]

BleedingUranium wrote...

D.Sharrah wrote...

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

Snip...

Except it is no longer a positive thing if your forces are gonna turn upon you sooner or later, even worse that they are doing it allready. If you dont have complete control over something like that it is safer to wipe it out.

And you ignore that Collector forces are still fighting alongside the Reapers as as I quoted and that the Reapers put what you have claimed is untrustworthy servants to build their newest Reaper.

The problem with this theory are massive.

As a response to someone I posted that maybe the rebellion isn't a foregone conclusion...but because the Reapers believe in ReaperBieber the Starbinger's (or Habinger's, if you prefer) circular logic (particularily pertaining to the created always rebelling against the creators) - its the mere perception that it exists as a possibility that drives them to quell the "rebellion" by perfroming another "cycle" and creating their newest tool.

And I never claimed that the theory was infallible...quite the opposite actually, I suggested that I might need to be sent to a rubber room.

After having an amusing, and really, really long "debate" with an Anti-ITer, I came an interesting conclusion, that also, I just realized, applies here.

There aren't actually Pro and Anti-ITers, what they really are are BW Is Good At Writing and BW Is Bad At Writing... ers.

Before we even get to IT, we have to ask if the person your talking with or about either thinks BW devs are good writers, or bad ones. If they have decided that BW sucks, no matter what you do, not matter what logic and evidence you can show them, they either won't believe IT, or believe they would that, in the unlikely event that IT is true, it would either be barely better than, or even worse then, the current literal ending.

Anyone who likes BW, or like me, hadn't really heard of them before, are always going to be open to the idea of IT. Regardless of how much they are convinced, or whether the are actually behind IT, for various good reasons, they will all be open to the idea of IT.

So, people that are Anti-BW, while they may be wrong about that, they are right about the complaints they make (not all of them) if you assume BW are bad writers/lazy/greedy.

Like I said, we shouldn't divide people into Pro-IT or Anti-IT, but into Pro (or neutral)-BW and Anti-BW.


Now, apply that same logic to the Starchild. His logic is sound if you accept that he is correct when he says that the created will always rebel against their creator. If that point were true, he'd be right, but since we can prove it's not true, then all the assumptions he makes because of that belief are thrown out the window.

You make a great point.  And I am not trying to suggest that we as players or Shepard should believe the logic.  It doesn't matter...as long as the Reaper's believe, than they are going to act accordingly - and IMHO in doing so they create a self fulfilling prophecy. 

[byne]

estebanus wrote...

paxxton wrote...

estebanus wrote...

Also, Germany beat Portugal! NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yay!

...:crying::crying:

I'm just going to do as I always do when I dont know what sport is being discussed and assume its the Cheese Roll.

The sport of kings.

[Starbuck8]

The thread got real quite since paxxton left. I miss him already! Either that or another cheese rolling match has started...

[D.Sharrah]

To enrichen the discussion I started earlier, I thought it might be helpful to review all of the Reaper's plan and contingencies. So here it goes (if I forget anything or if it needs correction please do so):

Plan - The Keepers. The Keepers were left on the Citadel with a dual purpose - first to help all that come to the Citadel to "integrate" into the construct there (socially, technologically, etc.). And secondly, when signalled to open the realy in dark space and let the Reapers in. Due to the efforts of the Prothean Scientists from Ilos, this plan is ruined.

Contingency 1 - Sovereign. Sovereign first task is to destabilize the galaxy (through the Rachni Wars, etc. - of course this is assuming that you believe that the Reapers are creators of the cycle and not just mere participants as the Catalyst suggests). Sovereign is also a contingency to the Keepers failing,he is there to "correct" the problem. Due to the actions of Shep and crew this is also stopped (narrowly).

Contingency 2 - The Collectors. The collectors have a multple purposes. The first is to assess the genetic stucture of the species that make up "galactic civilization". The second purpose is to start the development of the next "Reaper". A third is to act as ground forces should there be conflict when the reapers arrive. And there may be more. But again the Collectors were stopped by Shepard.

Contingency 3 - The Alpha Relay. The Alpha Relay (the one from Arrival) is meant to be a back door into the galaxy. They would travel via conventional means to reach this point and then have unffettered access to the rest of the Mass Relay Network. Again, stopped by Shepard.

Contingency 4 - Conventional Travel. If all other methods of entering the galaxy fails, the Reapers plan to get to the Milky Way simply by travelling by the means available to them. And once they arrive, the reaping will commence.

Contingency 5 - Indoctrination of Shepard. Given that Shepard has been involved in delaying the Reapers in every attempt to begin this "cycle" - the Reapers most recent contingency involves indoctrinating the one person that has become this cycle's symbol of hope. If successful, it would all but guarantee their success in completing this cycle...

Now then...the trickier part comes in the fact that these are the major contingencies as I see them. Tying these together and weaving in/out of these are other plans that are also in motion...my theory about TIM being a backup to the collectors and tying into the Indoctrination of Shep is one example.

Let me know what you think...

Edit:  By the way, I wish I was eloquent as some that post here - or as capable of getting ideas across as clearly as others - but I do try.  I just wish that there wasn't so much ME related crap rolling around in my head, it would probably make this a little easier.

Modifié par D.Sharrah, 09 juin 2012 - 10:34 .

[paxxton]

@Byne: I choose Control in the literal interpretation because according to this viewpoint Starchild is telling Shepard the truth that he can control the Reapers. The Reapers aren't innocent little kitties, they want to destroy humanity and all other advanced races. They are extremely hostile and have to be stopped. Control lets you end the Reaper invasion and at the same time preserve their technology for the benefit of all the races in the Galaxy.

Modifié par paxxton, 09 juin 2012 - 10:45 .

[paxxton]

Starbuck8 wrote...

The thread got real quite since paxxton left. I miss him already! Either that or another cheese rolling match has started...

I'm back!

No games for now. Europeans went to sleep.

Modifié par paxxton, 09 juin 2012 - 10:51 .

[paxxton]

estebanus wrote...

paxxton wrote...

estebanus wrote...

Also, Germany beat Portugal! NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yay!

...:crying::crying:

You should be happy that your neighbors won. Celebrate!

[gunslinger_ruiz]

paxxton wrote...

@Byne: I choose Control in the literal interpretation because according to this viewpoint Starchild is telling Shepard the truth that he can control the Reapers. The Reapers aren't innocent little kitties, they want to destroy humanity and all other advanced races. They are extremely hostile and have to be stopped. Control lets you end the Reaper invasion and at the same time preserve their technology for the benefit of all the races in the Galaxy.

It was my first choice as well but mostly because I was more-than-half asleep and didn't notice what he said didn't make much sense.
"Or, do you think you can control us?" (a question)
"So the Illusive Man was right..."
"Yes, but he could never have taken control, because WE already controlled HIM."
"But I can...:" (not a question)
"You will die, you will control us but you will lose everything you have."
"But the Reaper WILL obey me?"
"... ... Yes." (suspicious pause, maybe dialogue load lag or not)

How do you maintain control as you lose everything you have, everything that is you? After going through the ending a second time (while wide awake) and even before I heard about IT I didn't like that explanation, felt like the Catalyst was trying to trick me.

[Arashi08]

byne wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

paxxton wrote...

Corik wrote...

I think you're kidding again xDDDDD

Starchild is anything but coherent!

Nah. He might seem incoherent at moments but it's because we had no opportunity to chat with him and listen to his story. As for the "Created will always rebel against their creators" line it makes sense even with the geth/quarian war.

So if something holds true in one instance than it must be universally true?

In that case, everyone in this topic must be a troll, because at least one troll has posted in this topic. <_<

I'll never understand why people try to justify the Reapers' hundreds of thousands of galactic genocides by saying that they're just trying to stop galactic genocide.

No matter how you try to twist it, it doesnt make any damned sense.

How about this, godchild: you have a nigh invincible fleet of starships. When synthetics get made, send in the Reapers and destroy them, warning organics not to make synthetics.

Yknow, at least warn them that you'll slaughter the entire galaxy if they make synthetics again once before actually following through on it?

Or, hey, maybe you shouldnt have left tech all over the galaxy that allows the organics to make synthetics in the first place.

Sovereign said we develop along the paths the Reapers desire, so clearly they want  synthetics to be created.

I know this is old by now but this post was reminiscent of one of my earlier posts concerning the Reapers' motives. 

Considering how they altered the Geth in our cycle, apparently altered the Zha'til in the Protheans' cycle, and because of what Sovereign states about civilizations developing along the paths they desire.  it is almost like the Reapers are deliberately allowing these patterns to emerge, so they can justify their own existence.  Reminds me of how the Prothean VI stated the Reapers were "servants of the pattern"  possibly meaning the actual Pattern is their master, because without the pattern they have no purpose.

[D.Sharrah]

I am ashamed to admit...but the first time I made it to the end I think I picked synthesis in my sleep deprived state. Then I picked control (I wanted to see all the endings and that was just the second one that I went with). Since, I have not picked anything but destory.

[masster blaster]

estebanus wrote...

Beastpwnguy7 wrote...

Not sure if you all have heard but there is yet another leak for mass effect 3 stuff

http://www.reddit.co..._to_believe_me/

Basically it's another multiplayer dlc that has three new levels all on earth including London. He also has details on the extended cut, so it seems the two coincide in some way.

Apparently, this is coming from the same guy that told us about the rebellion dlc, and he was pretty damn accurate. If this is true, Arian Dynas is right on the mark with his theory about how BioWare was going to handle this whole thing. Looks promising

I posted that earlier today, but good find, nonetheless!

You do realize that Bioware can just say no that is wrong and all they have to do is change there plan A to plan B.

[masster blaster]

D.Sharrah wrote...

I am ashamed to admit...but the first time I made it to the end I think I picked synthesis in my sleep deprived state. Then I picked control (I wanted to see all the endings and that was just the second one that I went with). Since, I have not picked anything but destory.

Ya I picked Synthesis to because one I was very sleepy 5:00 in the morining. 2nd I had no idea what I was doing since nothing made no sense.