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[olshi]

Salient Archer wrote...

Also keep in mind Vega’s thoughts (foreshadowing) about the culture on the Citadel being too apathetic about the war, which could possibly indicate that the citadel had already been causing some kind of low level indoctrination in it’s more dormant state. This concept could also explain the motivation behind the Reapers moving the citadel to earth in the first place.

How often did we/Shepard have to complain in ME1 and ME2 about the Council and the Citadel ignoring the Reaper threat? Even in ME3 there are multiple conversations about how the Citadel is too peaceful and almost pretending the war doesn't exist. I like the idea.

[Salient Archer]

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

Salient Archer wrote...

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

prettz wrote...

Salient Archer wrote...

Sorry Arian, I've been off exploring some concepts in relation to the Citadel beam being a mass indoctrination device, not unlike the Arch Monolith that Desolas and Saren found in Shanxi.

this was the only reason I could think why joker would book it. after being told by Edi that a mass indoctrination wave was heading his way or something...

I dont think Indoctrination is something you can make into a wave. I mean even the fastest cases of Indoctrination (that is, cases hwere you are not simply reduced to a mindless husk by beeing impaled on spike of doom) take some time.

Just to be clear, I didn't actually mean the wave we see once the crucible blesses the cosmos with its plot-rays of space magic.

I was referring to the beam in london the citadel extrudes when it arrives at earth, the beam that Shepard Incorporated™ charge towards in london. My assumption being that the citadel, once shooting it’s beam acts as mass indoctrination device, which would explain why Shepard’s hallucinations suddenly ramp up once (s)he’s gaining proximity to it. Also keep in mind Vega’s thoughts (foreshadowing) about the culture on the Citadel being too apathetic about the war, which could possibly indicate that the citadel had already been causing some kind of low level indoctrination in it’s more dormant state. This concept could also explain the motivation behind the Reapers moving the citadel to earth in the first place.

But it dosent explain why the Reapers would defend the Citadel in any way.

A far more devoius plan would be:

Let TIM tell you the Crucible is ready and capture the Citadel, but dont let Shepard know that you know (if the VI is really lying). Then leave a sizeable, but ultimately only token force at Earth which the moment the giant united fleet arrives pulls back as it is clear (to Shepard) that it is outmatched leaving the Citadel for the fleet to capture.

Fleet plugs in Crucible and Reapers laugh or whatever they do when their plans work. The End.

What not to do if you truly want your enemies to plug in that giant device they ahev been building is to place some 100-150 of your biggest ships (did a rough count based on the scenes of the battle above Earth) + and unknown number of Destroyers, a fleet so big it can and will defeat your enemies in stand up fight, between your enemies and your ultimate trap.

That is ultimately the main reason I think the Crucible simply dosent work and its purpose was to lure the fleet into battle, not be a weapon against it in itself because the Reapers seem a bit to determined on us not getting to the Citadel.

I see what you’re saying, and I’m definitely not saying it’s wrong and what I’m saying it just an idea I’m playing with. The guise I'm working under is that the Reapers are more interested in harvesting earth than dealing with the other races, as we seem to be the lucky species of choice when it comes to making brand-spanking new baby reapers. Considering they are more than capable of taking the fleet down conventionally and they know this would it not stand to reason that they would dangle the bait of the crucible needing the citadel to work? So as a result they amass their greatest force around the citadel, knowing the galactic fleet would have to strike them there and now. In this instance it’s a brilliant tactical move as it not only helps the reapers wipe the galactic fleet out quickly but at same time they can protect their invested interest in earth and safely harvest our population to use for their next generation of Reapers to help strengthen their numbers for future reaping. It's an efficient tactic and if I had the strength, motivations and capabilities of the Reaper fleet it's what I would do.

Modifié par Salient Archer, 10 juin 2012 - 09:37 .

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

Salient Archer wrote...

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

Salient Archer wrote...

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

prettz wrote...

Salient Archer wrote...

Sorry Arian, I've been off exploring some concepts in relation to the Citadel beam being a mass indoctrination device, not unlike the Arch Monolith that Desolas and Saren found in Shanxi.

this was the only reason I could think why joker would book it. after being told by Edi that a mass indoctrination wave was heading his way or something...

I dont think Indoctrination is something you can make into a wave. I mean even the fastest cases of Indoctrination (that is, cases hwere you are not simply reduced to a mindless husk by beeing impaled on spike of doom) take some time.

Just to be clear, I didn't actually mean the wave we see once the crucible blesses the cosmos with its plot-rays of space magic.

I was referring to the beam in london the citadel extrudes when it arrives at earth, the beam that Shepard Incorporated™ charge towards in london. My assumption being that the citadel, once shooting it’s beam acts as mass indoctrination device, which would explain why Shepard’s hallucinations suddenly ramp up once (s)he’s gaining proximity to it. Also keep in mind Vega’s thoughts (foreshadowing) about the culture on the Citadel being too apathetic about the war, which could possibly indicate that the citadel had already been causing some kind of low level indoctrination in it’s more dormant state. This concept could also explain the motivation behind the Reapers moving the citadel to earth in the first place.

But it dosent explain why the Reapers would defend the Citadel in any way.

A far more devoius plan would be:

Let TIM tell you the Crucible is ready and capture the Citadel, but dont let Shepard know that you know (if the VI is really lying). Then leave a sizeable, but ultimately only token force at Earth which the moment the giant united fleet arrives pulls back as it is clear (to Shepard) that it is outmatched leaving the Citadel for the fleet to capture.

Fleet plugs in Crucible and Reapers laugh or whatever they do when their plans work. The End.

What not to do if you truly want your enemies to plug in that giant device they ahev been building is to place some 100-150 of your biggest ships (did a rough count based on the scenes of the battle above Earth) + and unknown number of Destroyers, a fleet so big it can and will defeat your enemies in stand up fight, between your enemies and your ultimate trap.

That is ultimately the main reason I think the Crucible simply dosent work and its purpose was to lure the fleet into battle, not be a weapon against it in itself because the Reapers seem a bit to determined on us not getting to the Citadel.

I see what you’re saying, and I’m definitely not saying it’s wrong and what I’m saying it just an idea I’m playing with. The guise I'm working under is that the Reapers are more interested in harvesting earth than dealing with the other races, as we seem to be the lucky species of choice when it comes to making brand-spanking new baby reapers. Considering they are more than capable of taking the fleet down conventionally and they know this would it not stand to reason that they would dangle the bait of the crucible needing the citadel to work? So as a result they amass their greatest force around the citadel, knowing the galactic fleet would have to strike them there and now. In this instance it’s a brilliant tactical move as it not only helps the reapers wipe the galactic fleet out once and for all but at same time they can safely harvest earths population to use for their next generation of Reapers to help strengthen their numbers for future reaping, kind of like killing two birds with one stone.

That was pretty much what I was saying about the Crucible beeing more bait than trap, luring the fleet into a final battle.

Though if I am reading this correctly you mean that the Mass indoctrination thing is still gonna happen, just to pacify Earth and not so much to defeat the fleet.

Well i am just gonna point to my last post about how the Reapers could simply have allowed the fleet to capture the Citadel above Earth and had minimal to no casualties if the Crucible is indeed a Mass indoctrination trap.

[Salient Archer]

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

Salient Archer wrote...

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

Salient Archer wrote...

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

prettz wrote...

Salient Archer wrote...

Sorry Arian, I've been off exploring some concepts in relation to the Citadel beam being a mass indoctrination device, not unlike the Arch Monolith that Desolas and Saren found in Shanxi.

this was the only reason I could think why joker would book it. after being told by Edi that a mass indoctrination wave was heading his way or something...

I dont think Indoctrination is something you can make into a wave. I mean even the fastest cases of Indoctrination (that is, cases hwere you are not simply reduced to a mindless husk by beeing impaled on spike of doom) take some time.

Just to be clear, I didn't actually mean the wave we see once the crucible blesses the cosmos with its plot-rays of space magic.

I was referring to the beam in london the citadel extrudes when it arrives at earth, the beam that Shepard Incorporated™ charge towards in london. My assumption being that the citadel, once shooting it’s beam acts as mass indoctrination device, which would explain why Shepard’s hallucinations suddenly ramp up once (s)he’s gaining proximity to it. Also keep in mind Vega’s thoughts (foreshadowing) about the culture on the Citadel being too apathetic about the war, which could possibly indicate that the citadel had already been causing some kind of low level indoctrination in it’s more dormant state. This concept could also explain the motivation behind the Reapers moving the citadel to earth in the first place.

But it dosent explain why the Reapers would defend the Citadel in any way.

A far more devoius plan would be:

Let TIM tell you the Crucible is ready and capture the Citadel, but dont let Shepard know that you know (if the VI is really lying). Then leave a sizeable, but ultimately only token force at Earth which the moment the giant united fleet arrives pulls back as it is clear (to Shepard) that it is outmatched leaving the Citadel for the fleet to capture.

Fleet plugs in Crucible and Reapers laugh or whatever they do when their plans work. The End.

What not to do if you truly want your enemies to plug in that giant device they ahev been building is to place some 100-150 of your biggest ships (did a rough count based on the scenes of the battle above Earth) + and unknown number of Destroyers, a fleet so big it can and will defeat your enemies in stand up fight, between your enemies and your ultimate trap.

That is ultimately the main reason I think the Crucible simply dosent work and its purpose was to lure the fleet into battle, not be a weapon against it in itself because the Reapers seem a bit to determined on us not getting to the Citadel.

I see what you’re saying, and I’m definitely not saying it’s wrong and what I’m saying it just an idea I’m playing with. The guise I'm working under is that the Reapers are more interested in harvesting earth than dealing with the other races, as we seem to be the lucky species of choice when it comes to making brand-spanking new baby reapers. Considering they are more than capable of taking the fleet down conventionally and they know this would it not stand to reason that they would dangle the bait of the crucible needing the citadel to work? So as a result they amass their greatest force around the citadel, knowing the galactic fleet would have to strike them there and now. In this instance it’s a brilliant tactical move as it not only helps the reapers wipe the galactic fleet out once and for all but at same time they can safely harvest earths population to use for their next generation of Reapers to help strengthen their numbers for future reaping, kind of like killing two birds with one stone.

That was pretty much what I was saying about the Crucible beeing more bait than trap, luring the fleet into a final battle.

Though if I am reading this correctly you mean that the Mass indoctrination thing is still gonna happen, just to pacify Earth and not so much to defeat the fleet.

Well i am just gonna point to my last post about how the Reapers could simply have allowed the fleet to capture the Citadel above Earth and had minimal to no casualties if the Crucible is indeed a Mass indoctrination trap.

As I said, I'm definitely agreeing that it's a trap, thats for sure, but I'm assuming it's the beam opposed to the citadel that actually amplifies the affects of indoctrination, essentially using an area of effect that turns almost everyone around into disillusioned, malleable zombies that are willing to throw themselves on to the alter of the grand reaping ones.

As for the tactic of keeping their force strong it’s because it would seem a bit sus if the Reapers suddenly backed off from the citadel once the fleet rocks up, it would essentially be like saying "Here, have this nice giant wooden horse, we’ve gift wrapped it for you and we absolutely promise it's not a trap!" Also, if they didn't present their greatest numbers there they could possibly loose their foothold on the beachhead they're trying to keep against a massive fleet, which would also look sus that they're not trying to protect their newly acquired investment that they just spent all this time and effort moving for no apparent reason.

Or rather, why would they move it to such an obvious position in the first place?, Because they were using the citadel to harvest specifically humans and no-one else and just used the opportunity to take out the other races while they’re at it, Which reinforces their lack of interest in the other species just like Harbinger points out in ME2, which is why they’d rather take the chance to get them out of the way so they can get back to harvesting humans.

Modifié par Salient Archer, 10 juin 2012 - 10:02 .

[Arian Dynas]

Salient Archer wrote...

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

prettz wrote...

Salient Archer wrote...

Sorry Arian, I've been off exploring some concepts in relation to the Citadel beam being a mass indoctrination device, not unlike the Arch Monolith that Desolas and Saren found in Shanxi.

this was the only reason I could think why joker would book it. after being told by Edi that a mass indoctrination wave was heading his way or something...

I dont think Indoctrination is something you can make into a wave. I mean even the fastest cases of Indoctrination (that is, cases hwere you are not simply reduced to a mindless husk by beeing impaled on spike of doom) take some time.

Just to be clear, I didn't actually mean the wave we see once the crucible blesses the cosmos with its plot-rays of space magic.

I was referring to the beam in london the citadel extrudes when it arrives at earth, the beam that Shepard Incorporated™ charge towards in london. My assumption being that the citadel, once shooting it’s beam acts as mass indoctrination device, which would explain why Shepard’s hallucinations suddenly ramp up once (s)he’s gaining proximity to it. Also keep in mind Vega’s thoughts (foreshadowing) about the culture on the Citadel being too apathetic about the war, which could possibly indicate that the citadel had already been causing some kind of low level indoctrination in it’s more dormant state. This concept could also explain the motivation behind the Reapers moving the citadel to earth in the first place.

Other than simple guesswork, do we have any reason to belive the beam is an indoctrination device? Do we have prior examples? Cases where we see beams in reaper tech or architecture?

[gunslinger_ruiz]

Arian Dynas wrote...

Salient Archer wrote...

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

prettz wrote...

Salient Archer wrote...

Sorry Arian, I've been off exploring some concepts in relation to the Citadel beam being a mass indoctrination device, not unlike the Arch Monolith that Desolas and Saren found in Shanxi.

this was the only reason I could think why joker would book it. after being told by Edi that a mass indoctrination wave was heading his way or something...

I dont think Indoctrination is something you can make into a wave. I mean even the fastest cases of Indoctrination (that is, cases hwere you are not simply reduced to a mindless husk by beeing impaled on spike of doom) take some time.

Just to be clear, I didn't actually mean the wave we see once the crucible blesses the cosmos with its plot-rays of space magic.

I was referring to the beam in london the citadel extrudes when it arrives at earth, the beam that Shepard Incorporated™ charge towards in london. My assumption being that the citadel, once shooting it’s beam acts as mass indoctrination device, which would explain why Shepard’s hallucinations suddenly ramp up once (s)he’s gaining proximity to it. Also keep in mind Vega’s thoughts (foreshadowing) about the culture on the Citadel being too apathetic about the war, which could possibly indicate that the citadel had already been causing some kind of low level indoctrination in it’s more dormant state. This concept could also explain the motivation behind the Reapers moving the citadel to earth in the first place.

Other than simple guesswork, do we have any reason to belive the beam is an indoctrination device? Do we have prior examples? Cases where we see beams in reaper tech or architecture?

The only thing I based my guesswork on was that Reaper Tech (generall speaking) can emit an Indoctrination Signal. And as you've said, the Beam is a big honking piece of Reaper Tech (paraphrasing). But really, it's just a guess at why things seem a little "odd" during London, like Anderson's "I was born in London" and "Really?". and all that. Hm, y'know that might also explain why Coates suddenly decided retreat was an option after Hammer gets wiped out. That's assuming Coates isn't already a Reaper agent but who knows really.

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

Salient Archer wrote...

 As I said, I'm definitely agreeing that it's a trap, thats for sure, but I'm assuming it's the beam opposed to the citadel that actually amplifies the affects of indoctrination, essentially using an area of effect that turns almost everyone around into disillusioned, malleable zombies that are willing to throw themselves on to the alter of the grand reaping ones.

As for the tactic of keeping their force strong it’s because it would seem a bit sus if the Reapers suddenly backed off from the citadel once the fleet rocks up, it would essentially be like saying "Here, have this nice giant wooden horse, we’ve gift wrapped it for you and we absolutely promise it's not a trap!" Also, if they didn't present their greatest numbers there they could possibly loose their foothold on the beachhead they're trying to keep against a massive fleet, which would also look sus that they're not trying to protect their newly acquired investment that they just spent all this time and effort moving for no apparent reason.

Or rather, why would they move it to such an obvious position in the first place?, Because they were using the citadel to harvest specifically humans and no-one else and just used the opportunity to take out the other races while they’re at it, Which reinforces their lack of interest in the other species just like Harbinger points out in ME2, which is why they’d rather take the chance to get them out of the way so they can get back to harvesting humans.

It is only suspect because we know the Reapers have been warned of the fleet.

If Shepard or Hacket was under the impression that the Reapers did not know the Crucible was finished or the fleet gathered to protect it then it would be feasible that a Reaper force at Earth could do a realistic "retreat before obviusly superior force," I mean even Reapers are not suicidial. 

It all boils down to that the way i see it if the Crucible/Citadel combo was trap, something designed to work against the united fleet and not the Reapers then the Reapers could have done alot of things way more subtle and feasibly let them deploy this trap.

But instead the Reapers gathere their forces around Earth, defending the Citadel and leading to massive battle which will spell the doom of the united fleet without outside intervention, but will also inflict heavy losses upon the Reapers in the progress.

I just dont see why the Reapers would accept such losses if they had a trap which when deployed could reduce them to a minimum.

Also another gribe with the entire "the Crucible is gonn a turn upon us"  theory is that it essentially reduces th chances of victory to 0%.

Eveyrthing we have is at Earth, either we win there and win the war or we lose and the galaxy falls with us. There is no second chance here and the Crucible is the only thing still giving us chance. If it is turned against us in any way, then the war is utterly lost

Modifié par Raistlin Majare 1992, 10 juin 2012 - 10:16 .

[Salient Archer]

Arian Dynas wrote...

Salient Archer wrote...

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

prettz wrote...

Salient Archer wrote...

Sorry Arian, I've been off exploring some concepts in relation to the Citadel beam being a mass indoctrination device, not unlike the Arch Monolith that Desolas and Saren found in Shanxi.

this was the only reason I could think why joker would book it. after being told by Edi that a mass indoctrination wave was heading his way or something...

I dont think Indoctrination is something you can make into a wave. I mean even the fastest cases of Indoctrination (that is, cases hwere you are not simply reduced to a mindless husk by beeing impaled on spike of doom) take some time.

Just to be clear, I didn't actually mean the wave we see once the crucible blesses the cosmos with its plot-rays of space magic.

I was referring to the beam in london the citadel extrudes when it arrives at earth, the beam that Shepard Incorporated™ charge towards in london. My assumption being that the citadel, once shooting it’s beam acts as mass indoctrination device, which would explain why Shepard’s hallucinations suddenly ramp up once (s)he’s gaining proximity to it. Also keep in mind Vega’s thoughts (foreshadowing) about the culture on the Citadel being too apathetic about the war, which could possibly indicate that the citadel had already been causing some kind of low level indoctrination in it’s more dormant state. This concept could also explain the motivation behind the Reapers moving the citadel to earth in the first place.

Other than simple guesswork, do we have any reason to belive the beam is an indoctrination device? Do we have prior examples? Cases where we see beams in reaper tech or architecture?

For indoctrination purposes? Not that I personally know of but I do know that Reapers like to Reap and Humans are the Reapers favorite thing to Reap. We also have seen many different kinds of indoctrination devices throughout the different games, books and comics. I'm basically just trying to give a justification for them moving the citadel to Earth and firing a beam into london for no other apparent reason than maybe a "come at me bro" stance. My completed hypothesis would state that the beam is used for indoctrination and ramps up the hallucinations Shepard is having which would lead to his psychological battle of wills we see play out during the end game.

Modifié par Salient Archer, 10 juin 2012 - 10:24 .

[Salient Archer]

I'm not actually sold on the idea myself but I'm just toying with it for the sake of trying to think of a new angle.

[paxxton]

Hello!

[UrgentArchengel]

Has it been said here that Shepard hears whispers way in the beginning of ME1? It's when your describing your vision to Chakwas.

[Arian Dynas]

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

Salient Archer wrote...

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

prettz wrote...

Salient Archer wrote...

Sorry Arian, I've been off exploring some concepts in relation to the Citadel beam being a mass indoctrination device, not unlike the Arch Monolith that Desolas and Saren found in Shanxi.

this was the only reason I could think why joker would book it. after being told by Edi that a mass indoctrination wave was heading his way or something...

I dont think Indoctrination is something you can make into a wave. I mean even the fastest cases of Indoctrination (that is, cases hwere you are not simply reduced to a mindless husk by beeing impaled on spike of doom) take some time.

Just to be clear, I didn't actually mean the wave we see once the crucible blesses the cosmos with its plot-rays of space magic.

I was referring to the beam in london the citadel extrudes when it arrives at earth, the beam that Shepard Incorporated™ charge towards in london. My assumption being that the citadel, once shooting it’s beam acts as mass indoctrination device, which would explain why Shepard’s hallucinations suddenly ramp up once (s)he’s gaining proximity to it. Also keep in mind Vega’s thoughts (foreshadowing) about the culture on the Citadel being too apathetic about the war, which could possibly indicate that the citadel had already been causing some kind of low level indoctrination in it’s more dormant state. This concept could also explain the motivation behind the Reapers moving the citadel to earth in the first place.

Other than simple guesswork, do we have any reason to belive the beam is an indoctrination device? Do we have prior examples? Cases where we see beams in reaper tech or architecture?

The only thing I based my guesswork on was that Reaper Tech (generall speaking) can emit an Indoctrination Signal. And as you've said, the Beam is a big honking piece of Reaper Tech (paraphrasing). But really, it's just a guess at why things seem a little "odd" during London, like Anderson's "I was born in London" and "Really?". and all that. Hm, y'know that might also explain why Coates suddenly decided retreat was an option after Hammer gets wiped out. That's assuming Coates isn't already a Reaper agent but who knows really.

What, the fact that you've got the entire Reaper fleet above your head isn't enough?

Really, I don't propose to know what the beam DOES, but for two reasons I am going to assume it works as advertised. One, it does make sense if the Citadel is still blocked to them and they want to make it into a nice safe little womb that they need to pour troops in, to clear out any survivors who could mess things up.

And the other reason being, if it doesn't, we have no way to get onto the Citadel, no way to open the arms, mankind is ****ed, we're all ****ed, and we lose the game.

[Arian Dynas]

UrgentArchengel wrote...

Has it been said here that Shepard hears whispers way in the beginning of ME1? It's when your describing your vision to Chakwas.

Hmm, I remember that. Interesting, indoctrination DID start as early as ME1.

Also, since I am thinking about altered perceptions of reality, for your pleasure; 
 

[paxxton]

Salient Archer wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

Salient Archer wrote...

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

prettz wrote...

Salient Archer wrote...

Sorry Arian, I've been off exploring some concepts in relation to the Citadel beam being a mass indoctrination device, not unlike the Arch Monolith that Desolas and Saren found in Shanxi.

this was the only reason I could think why joker would book it. after being told by Edi that a mass indoctrination wave was heading his way or something...

I dont think Indoctrination is something you can make into a wave. I mean even the fastest cases of Indoctrination (that is, cases hwere you are not simply reduced to a mindless husk by beeing impaled on spike of doom) take some time.

Just to be clear, I didn't actually mean the wave we see once the crucible blesses the cosmos with its plot-rays of space magic.

I was referring to the beam in london the citadel extrudes when it arrives at earth, the beam that Shepard Incorporated™ charge towards in london. My assumption being that the citadel, once shooting it’s beam acts as mass indoctrination device, which would explain why Shepard’s hallucinations suddenly ramp up once (s)he’s gaining proximity to it. Also keep in mind Vega’s thoughts (foreshadowing) about the culture on the Citadel being too apathetic about the war, which could possibly indicate that the citadel had already been causing some kind of low level indoctrination in it’s more dormant state. This concept could also explain the motivation behind the Reapers moving the citadel to earth in the first place.

Other than simple guesswork, do we have any reason to belive the beam is an indoctrination device? Do we have prior examples? Cases where we see beams in reaper tech or architecture?

For indoctrination purposes? Not that I personally know of but I do know that Reapers like to Reap and Humans are the Reapers favorite thing to Reap. We also have seen many different kinds of indoctrination devices throughout the different games, books and comics. I'm basically just trying to give a justification for them moving the citadel to Earth and firing a beam into london for no other apparent reason than maybe a "come at me bro" stance. My completed hypothesis would state that the beam is used for indoctrination and ramps up the hallucinations Shepard is having which would lead to his psychological battle of wills we see play out during the end game.

I agree with your reasoning. It makes much sense and is more plausible than indoctrination through a vaporizing beam. You actually don't need any prior examples since Mass Effect is a work of fiction and everything that is reasonable in relation to the real world can be used to justify what we see in the game. If there are no examples that prove your hypothesis, search for ones that disprove it. If there are neither, your interpretation is ok.

Modifié par paxxton, 10 juin 2012 - 11:00 .

[Salient Archer]

paxxton wrote...

Salient Archer wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

Salient Archer wrote...

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

prettz wrote...

Salient Archer wrote...

Sorry Arian, I've been off exploring some concepts in relation to the Citadel beam being a mass indoctrination device, not unlike the Arch Monolith that Desolas and Saren found in Shanxi.

this was the only reason I could think why joker would book it. after being told by Edi that a mass indoctrination wave was heading his way or something...

I dont think Indoctrination is something you can make into a wave. I mean even the fastest cases of Indoctrination (that is, cases hwere you are not simply reduced to a mindless husk by beeing impaled on spike of doom) take some time.

Just to be clear, I didn't actually mean the wave we see once the crucible blesses the cosmos with its plot-rays of space magic.

I was referring to the beam in london the citadel extrudes when it arrives at earth, the beam that Shepard Incorporated™ charge towards in london. My assumption being that the citadel, once shooting it’s beam acts as mass indoctrination device, which would explain why Shepard’s hallucinations suddenly ramp up once (s)he’s gaining proximity to it. Also keep in mind Vega’s thoughts (foreshadowing) about the culture on the Citadel being too apathetic about the war, which could possibly indicate that the citadel had already been causing some kind of low level indoctrination in it’s more dormant state. This concept could also explain the motivation behind the Reapers moving the citadel to earth in the first place.

Other than simple guesswork, do we have any reason to belive the beam is an indoctrination device? Do we have prior examples? Cases where we see beams in reaper tech or architecture?

For indoctrination purposes? Not that I personally know of but I do know that Reapers like to Reap and Humans are the Reapers favorite thing to Reap. We also have seen many different kinds of indoctrination devices throughout the different games, books and comics. I'm basically just trying to give a justification for them moving the citadel to Earth and firing a beam into london for no other apparent reason than maybe a "come at me bro" stance. My completed hypothesis would state that the beam is used for indoctrination and ramps up the hallucinations Shepard is having which would lead to his psychological battle of wills we see play out during the end game.

I agree with your reasoning. It makes much sense and is more plausible than indoctrination through a vaporizing beam. You actually don't need any prior examples since Mass Effect is a work of fiction and everything that is reasonable in relation to the real world can be used to justify what we see in the game.

That is part of my reasoning, we didn't know that 6 foot pointy blue ornaments could indoctrinate people until ME:Evolution but we do know that Reaper tech can and usually does.. Arian's right, we have no real way of understanding how the beam actually works and the game leads us to believe it teleported Shep, but I must ask, is it ever mentioned in the game that the beam is a teleporter prior to Shep stepping into it?

[Earthborn_Shepard]

Any news in the last few days?

[paxxton]

Salient Archer wrote...

paxxton wrote...

Salient Archer wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

Salient Archer wrote...

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

prettz wrote...

Salient Archer wrote...

Sorry Arian, I've been off exploring some concepts in relation to the Citadel beam being a mass indoctrination device, not unlike the Arch Monolith that Desolas and Saren found in Shanxi.

this was the only reason I could think why joker would book it. after being told by Edi that a mass indoctrination wave was heading his way or something...

I dont think Indoctrination is something you can make into a wave. I mean even the fastest cases of Indoctrination (that is, cases hwere you are not simply reduced to a mindless husk by beeing impaled on spike of doom) take some time.

Just to be clear, I didn't actually mean the wave we see once the crucible blesses the cosmos with its plot-rays of space magic.

I was referring to the beam in london the citadel extrudes when it arrives at earth, the beam that Shepard Incorporated™ charge towards in london. My assumption being that the citadel, once shooting it’s beam acts as mass indoctrination device, which would explain why Shepard’s hallucinations suddenly ramp up once (s)he’s gaining proximity to it. Also keep in mind Vega’s thoughts (foreshadowing) about the culture on the Citadel being too apathetic about the war, which could possibly indicate that the citadel had already been causing some kind of low level indoctrination in it’s more dormant state. This concept could also explain the motivation behind the Reapers moving the citadel to earth in the first place.

Other than simple guesswork, do we have any reason to belive the beam is an indoctrination device? Do we have prior examples? Cases where we see beams in reaper tech or architecture?

For indoctrination purposes? Not that I personally know of but I do know that Reapers like to Reap and Humans are the Reapers favorite thing to Reap. We also have seen many different kinds of indoctrination devices throughout the different games, books and comics. I'm basically just trying to give a justification for them moving the citadel to Earth and firing a beam into london for no other apparent reason than maybe a "come at me bro" stance. My completed hypothesis would state that the beam is used for indoctrination and ramps up the hallucinations Shepard is having which would lead to his psychological battle of wills we see play out during the end game.

I agree with your reasoning. It makes much sense and is more plausible than indoctrination through a vaporizing beam. You actually don't need any prior examples since Mass Effect is a work of fiction and everything that is reasonable in relation to the real world can be used to justify what we see in the game.

That is part of my reasoning, we didn't know that 6 foot pointy blue ornaments could indoctrinate people until ME:Evolution but we do know that Reaper tech can and usually does.. Arian's right, we have no real way of understanding how the beam actually works and the game leads us to believe it teleported Shep, but I must ask, is it ever mentioned in the game that the beam is a teleporter prior to Shep stepping into it?

Well, to be precise I'll say the beam didn't teleport Shepard to the Citadel. It appears to do so only within the confines of his hallucination. Actually, during the breath scene there is no blue light from the beam visible so it has been deactivated right after the dream ended.

Modifié par paxxton, 10 juin 2012 - 11:14 .

[Salient Archer]

paxxton wrote...

Salient Archer wrote...

paxxton wrote...

Salient Archer wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

Salient Archer wrote...

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

prettz wrote...

Salient Archer wrote...

Sorry Arian, I've been off exploring some concepts in relation to the Citadel beam being a mass indoctrination device, not unlike the Arch Monolith that Desolas and Saren found in Shanxi.

this was the only reason I could think why joker would book it. after being told by Edi that a mass indoctrination wave was heading his way or something...

I dont think Indoctrination is something you can make into a wave. I mean even the fastest cases of Indoctrination (that is, cases hwere you are not simply reduced to a mindless husk by beeing impaled on spike of doom) take some time.

Just to be clear, I didn't actually mean the wave we see once the crucible blesses the cosmos with its plot-rays of space magic.

I was referring to the beam in london the citadel extrudes when it arrives at earth, the beam that Shepard Incorporated™ charge towards in london. My assumption being that the citadel, once shooting it’s beam acts as mass indoctrination device, which would explain why Shepard’s hallucinations suddenly ramp up once (s)he’s gaining proximity to it. Also keep in mind Vega’s thoughts (foreshadowing) about the culture on the Citadel being too apathetic about the war, which could possibly indicate that the citadel had already been causing some kind of low level indoctrination in it’s more dormant state. This concept could also explain the motivation behind the Reapers moving the citadel to earth in the first place.

Other than simple guesswork, do we have any reason to belive the beam is an indoctrination device? Do we have prior examples? Cases where we see beams in reaper tech or architecture?

For indoctrination purposes? Not that I personally know of but I do know that Reapers like to Reap and Humans are the Reapers favorite thing to Reap. We also have seen many different kinds of indoctrination devices throughout the different games, books and comics. I'm basically just trying to give a justification for them moving the citadel to Earth and firing a beam into london for no other apparent reason than maybe a "come at me bro" stance. My completed hypothesis would state that the beam is used for indoctrination and ramps up the hallucinations Shepard is having which would lead to his psychological battle of wills we see play out during the end game.

I agree with your reasoning. It makes much sense and is more plausible than indoctrination through a vaporizing beam. You actually don't need any prior examples since Mass Effect is a work of fiction and everything that is reasonable in relation to the real world can be used to justify what we see in the game.

That is part of my reasoning, we didn't know that 6 foot pointy blue ornaments could indoctrinate people until ME:Evolution but we do know that Reaper tech can and usually does.. Arian's right, we have no real way of understanding how the beam actually works and the game leads us to believe it teleported Shep, but I must ask, is it ever mentioned in the game that the beam is a teleporter prior to Shep stepping into it?

Well, to be precise I'll say the beam didn't teleport Shepard to the Citadel. It appears to do so only within the confines of his hallucination. Actually, during the breath scene there is no blue light from the beam visible so it has been deactivated right after the dream ended.

That's what I mean; is the only evidence we're shown that the beam is a teleporter in Shepard's hallucination? And if it is the only time it's shown or mentioned than why does everyone feel the need to run towards it if they don’t know what it does?

Modifié par Salient Archer, 10 juin 2012 - 11:15 .

[paxxton]

Salient Archer wrote...

paxxton wrote...

Salient Archer wrote...

paxxton wrote...

Salient Archer wrote...

*snip*

My completed hypothesis would state that the beam is used for indoctrination and ramps up the hallucinations Shepard is having which would lead to his psychological battle of wills we see play out during the end game.

I agree with your reasoning. It makes much sense and is more plausible than indoctrination through a vaporizing beam. You actually don't need any prior examples since Mass Effect is a work of fiction and everything that is reasonable in relation to the real world can be used to justify what we see in the game.

That is part of my reasoning, we didn't know that 6 foot pointy blue ornaments could indoctrinate people until ME:Evolution but we do know that Reaper tech can and usually does.. Arian's right, we have no real way of understanding how the beam actually works and the game leads us to believe it teleported Shep, but I must ask, is it ever mentioned in the game that the beam is a teleporter prior to Shep stepping into it?

Well, to be precise I'll say the beam didn't teleport Shepard to the Citadel. It appears to do so only within the confines of his hallucination. Actually, during the breath scene there is no blue light from the beam visible so it has been deactivated right after the dream ended.

That's what I mean; is the only evidence we're shown that the beam is a teleporter in Shepard hallucination? And if it is the only time it's shown or mentioned than why does everyone feel the need to run towards it if they don’t know what it does?

Furthermore, on one of the PDAs in London you can read that people feel an urgent need to go to a place from which they come back changed. And it just so happens that Shepard has an urgent need to go to the beam.

Modifié par paxxton, 10 juin 2012 - 11:30 .

[UrgentArchengel]

Arian Dynas wrote...

UrgentArchengel wrote...

Has it been said here that Shepard hears whispers way in the beginning of ME1? It's when your describing your vision to Chakwas.

Hmm, I remember that. Interesting, indoctrination DID start as early as ME1.

Also, since I am thinking about altered perceptions of reality, for your pleasure; 
 

Ha, that vid was awesome.

[Arian Dynas]

MENTELGEN! CUT DOWN THAT FREAKING PYRAMID!

[gunslinger_ruiz]

Arian Dynas wrote...

MENTELGEN! CUT DOWN THAT FREAKING PYRAMID!

What he said! I'm going to bed! PS I didn't think a pryamid post could get big enough to cram the content into such small rows of text.

[DJBare]

Riot86 wrote...


http://i46.tinypic.com/1jx64n.jpg

Just thought I'd throw this idea out there, the skeleton does seem out of place, every time I go through that section it's never made sense to me, but a tenuous thought, if you have an LI, that's the side of the bed they would be resting on.

[Arian Dynas]

O.O

[Salient Archer]

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

MENTELGEN! CUT DOWN THAT FREAKING PYRAMID!

What he said! I'm going to bed! PS I didn't think a pryamid post could get big enough to cram the content into such small rows of text.

But it was such a grandiose piece of architecture.

Modifié par Salient Archer, 10 juin 2012 - 11:46 .