55528 réponses à ce sujet

[DJBare]

Overdrive1493 wrote...

No, absolutely not. Bioware are nowhere near that clever, and the EC proves they're not changing the ending. Case closed.

*points*; we have a Bioware employee here!, well you must be, you obviously know their plans.

[Overdrive1493]

Yes, absolutely. The evidence is too much to ignore. The EC proves nothing.

[lex0r11]

[RavenEyry]

Overdrive1493 wrote...

No, absolutely not. Bioware are nowhere near that clever, and the EC proves they're not changing the ending. Case closed.

Care to use evidence to back up those claims as we do?

[paxxton]

D.Sharrah wrote...

Byne - Any thoughts on updating the OP? It would be cool if there were links for the following...

Memorial Wall
Arian's Marketing Theory
Arian's Script
Prettz gun change video when finished

Anyone else think of anything?

Sure. The UNIT thread.

Seriously, maybe the Starchild turning corporeal in Control.

We can also allow some justified hypotheses into the OP. Today Salient Archer proposed a very plausible one on the purpose of the beam in London. There is some compelling evidence that it might induce hallucinations in Shepard.

Modifié par paxxton, 10 juin 2012 - 03:06 .

[MaximizedAction]

BleedingUranium wrote...

[snipped quotes]

After having an amusing, and really, really long "debate" with an Anti-ITer, I came an interesting conclusion, that also, I just realized, applies here.

There aren't actually Pro and Anti-ITers, what they really are are BW Is Good At Writing and BW Is Bad At Writing... ers.

Before we even get to IT, we have to ask if the person your talking with or about either thinks BW devs are good writers, or bad ones. If they have decided that BW sucks, no matter what you do, not matter what logic and evidence you can show them, they either won't believe IT, or believe they would that, in the unlikely event that IT is true, it would either be barely better than, or even worse then, the current literal ending.

Anyone who likes BW, or like me, hadn't really heard of them before, are always going to be open to the idea of IT. Regardless of how much they are convinced, or whether the are actually behind IT, for various good reasons, they will all be open to the idea of IT.

So, people that are Anti-BW, while they may be wrong about that, they are right about the complaints they make (not all of them) if you assume BW are bad writers/lazy/greedy.

Like I said, we shouldn't divide people into Pro-IT or Anti-IT, but into Pro (or neutral)-BW and Anti-BW.


Now, apply that same logic to the Starchild. His logic is sound if you accept that he is correct when he says that the created will always rebel against their creator. If that point were true, he'd be right, but since we can prove it's not true, then all the assumptions he makes because of that belief are thrown out the window.

Quoted as a reminder!

Modifié par MaximizedAction, 10 juin 2012 - 02:58 .

[Andromidius]

Overdrive1493 wrote...

Yes, absolutely. The evidence is too much to ignore. The EC proves nothing.

I'm totally swayed by the strength of your arguments and evidence.

Oh wait, no I'm not.  Sorry, but if you bothered to read even a few pages of this thread you'd understand what we are talking about.  Clearly you haven't, and dont' care to find out, and thus I have to ask:

"Why are you here, other then to stir to drama?"

Back on topic...

The 'double grunt' when Anderson gets shot, I never noticed it before but its definately there and its two different voices.  That implies so much!  Especially considering it doesn't change for Femshep, so it has to be Anderson and TIM!

And if someone can find a connect between the dead Hamster and whether or not Shepard had one...  Just wow.  WOW.

[Corik]

Andromidius wrote...

*snip*

And if someone can find a connect between the dead Hamster and whether or not Shepard had one...  Just wow.  WOW.

wait, what? O.o

[DJBare]

Corik wrote...

Andromidius wrote...

*snip*

And if someone can find a connect between the dead Hamster and whether or not Shepard had one...  Just wow.  WOW.

wait, what? O.o

In the apartment, there is a hampster cage but all you see inside is a blood smear like the hampster was squashed and dragged.

[Corik]

DJBare wrote...

Corik wrote...

Andromidius wrote...

*snip*

And if someone can find a connect between the dead Hamster and whether or not Shepard had one...  Just wow.  WOW.

wait, what? O.o

In the apartment, there is a hampster cage but all you see inside is a blood smear like the hampster was squashed and dragged.

I see, thanks!

[HellishFiend]

Are we leaning one way or the other as far as full hallucination or partial hallucination for London? I'm still struggling to find a clear starting point if we're going with full hallucination, but it's becoming difficult to imagine that the majority of the events in London took place at all.

[paxxton]

HellishFiend wrote...

Are we leaning one way or the other as far as full hallucination or partial hallucination for London? I'm still struggling to find a clear starting point if we're going with full hallucination, but it's becoming difficult to imagine that the majority of the events in London took place at all.

Makes sense. The smaller the proximity to the beam is, the more prominent and intrusive the hallucinations are.

[DJBare]

HellishFiend wrote...

Are we leaning one way or the other as far as full hallucination or partial hallucination for London? I'm still struggling to find a clear starting point if we're going with full hallucination, but it's becoming difficult to imagine that the majority of the events in London took place at all.

Despite my earlier post, I'm sticking with waking dream, the events are happening but twisted in Shepard's mind, s/he could be killing allies for all we know.

[Corik]

HellishFiend wrote...

Are we leaning one way or the other as far as full hallucination or partial hallucination for London? I'm still struggling to find a clear starting point if we're going with full hallucination, but it's becoming difficult to imagine that the majority of the events in London took place at all.

I want to believe the hallucination starts with Harby's beam. Not saying is not possible to be a full hallucination everything in london, but the most solid evidences start after harby's beam. I think anyting more would be too much hallucinating. Yeah, there are weird things before... but nothing as big as what we have after.

At this point... anything requires some amount of "faith"... so everything is possible, from a full hallucination to a face-value ending, hehe.

[RavenEyry]

I'm going with hallucinations and warped perception getting worse and worse until either the mako crash or Harby's lazor. There are oddities on the cerberus base but not enough to make me think it's a dream and though the strangeness gets worse on Earth, I doubt the whole mission as a dream becuase it just seems like too much.

[HellishFiend]

DJBare wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

Are we leaning one way or the other as far as full hallucination or partial hallucination for London? I'm still struggling to find a clear starting point if we're going with full hallucination, but it's becoming difficult to imagine that the majority of the events in London took place at all.

Despite my earlier post, I'm sticking with waking dream, the events are happening but twisted in Shepard's mind, s/he could be killing allies for all we know.

So something is going on London - events are taking place - however the settings, dialogs, and combat are heavily hallucinated? I like the concept to a degree, but from a literary standpoint it would make it very difficult and possibly frustrating to connect the dots, even if BW comes out and tries to explain it as clearly as possible. It might become a situation we never learn the full truth...

[HellishFiend]

Corik wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

Are we leaning one way or the other as far as full hallucination or partial hallucination for London? I'm still struggling to find a clear starting point if we're going with full hallucination, but it's becoming difficult to imagine that the majority of the events in London took place at all.

I want to believe the hallucination starts with Harby's beam. Not saying is not possible to be a full hallucination everything in london, but the most solid evidences start after harby's beam. I think anyting more would be too much hallucinating. Yeah, there are weird things before... but nothing as big as what we have after.

At this point... anything requires some amount of "faith"... so everything is possible, from a full hallucination to a face-value ending, hehe.

I havent finished going over all of the finds from yesterday, but its starting to look very compelling that something is severely wrong with London, to the point where I'm having difficulty believing that the actual settings themselves are real. They are basically carbon copies of previous areas and events from Shepard's past. 

If they were strictly things from ME1 and ME2, I could see how it could be some sort of cheesy send-off from BW that only fans of the entire trilogy will get, but many of the things are from ME3 as well, and that doesnt make sense to give nods to things that just happened in the game you're already playing. 

[HellishFiend]

RavenEyry wrote...

I'm going with hallucinations and warped perception getting worse and worse until either the mako crash or Harby's lazor. There are oddities on the cerberus base but not enough to make me think it's a dream and though the strangeness gets worse on Earth, I doubt the whole mission as a dream becuase it just seems like too much.

Perhaps, but if not, how do we explain the fact that the areas and events seem to be nearly carbon copies of things from Shepard's memory?

In particular, I find the husk-stuck-in-door with the nearby vent and letter from the boy to be a very compelling indicator that the occurrence of the scene itself is in question.

[Corik]

HellishFiend wrote...

Corik wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

Are we leaning one way or the other as far as full hallucination or partial hallucination for London? I'm still struggling to find a clear starting point if we're going with full hallucination, but it's becoming difficult to imagine that the majority of the events in London took place at all.

I want to believe the hallucination starts with Harby's beam. Not saying is not possible to be a full hallucination everything in london, but the most solid evidences start after harby's beam. I think anyting more would be too much hallucinating. Yeah, there are weird things before... but nothing as big as what we have after.

At this point... anything requires some amount of "faith"... so everything is possible, from a full hallucination to a face-value ending, hehe.

I havent finished going over all of the finds from yesterday, but its starting to look very compelling that something is severely wrong with London, to the point where I'm having difficulty believing that the actual settings themselves are real. They are basically carbon copies of previous areas and events from Shepard's past. 

If they were strictly things from ME1 and ME2, I could see how it could be some sort of cheesy send-off from BW that only fans of the entire trilogy will get, but many of the things are from ME3 as well, and that doesnt make sense to give nods to things that just happened in the game you're already playing. 

I can't lie... I don't see anything "wrong" about London. Maybe the conduit run... However, after Harby's beam... everything turns weird to me.

[MaximizedAction]

HellishFiend wrote...

DJBare wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

Are we leaning one way or the other as far as full hallucination or partial hallucination for London? I'm still struggling to find a clear starting point if we're going with full hallucination, but it's becoming difficult to imagine that the majority of the events in London took place at all.

Despite my earlier post, I'm sticking with waking dream, the events are happening but twisted in Shepard's mind, s/he could be killing allies for all we know.

So something is going on London - events are taking place - however the settings, dialogs, and combat are heavily hallucinated? I like the concept to a degree, but from a literary standpoint it would make it very difficult and possibly frustrating to connect the dots, even if BW comes out and tries to explain it as clearly as possible. It might become a situation we never learn the full truth...

Exactly, a partial hallucination is not so easy to explain to the player if (s)he isn't expecting it. That way it's not just a black and white situation. But then again, 'grey' is something that is well portayed on TIM. Some are fully convinced that he's fully indoc, I think we don't have enough direct evidence that he is.
Same with the Starbinger, I thought I was spoilered when I accidently read in a youtube comment that he was Harbinger before I played the ending myself. Turned out he's maybe Harbinger.
So a lot of grey is going on in ME3, same could be true for hallucinations. Some players will think it's that way, some that it's the other. If you ask me, the perfect interactive story.

[RavenEyry]

HellishFiend wrote...

Perhaps, but if not, how do we explain the fact that the areas and events seem to be nearly carbon copies of things from Shepard's memory?

In particular, I find the husk-stuck-in-door with the nearby vent and letter from the boy to be a very compelling indicator that the occurrence of the scene itself is in question.

I do find that and how the base is similar to the turian moon to be just as uncanny as the citadels similarities to earlier places, but the whole thing being a dream just doesn't feel right to me.

[HellishFiend]

Corik wrote...


I can't lie... I don't see anything "wrong" about London. Maybe the conduit run... However, after Harby's beam... everything turns weird to me.

So the fact that Reapers start dropping like flies when being hit by weapons that defy established codex lore, the presence of view bob, as well as areas, fights, and events being complete rehashes of prior events, none of that adds up as "wrong"? 

I dont think we're grasping at straws here. A lot of this stuff we've known about for weeks or months, but its starting to get to the point where the sheer amount of evidence calling the reality of London into question is starting to bear similarity to the amount throughout the course of the game that points toward IT itself.

[DirtyPhoenix]

Where did the Bioware employee go? he was amusing

[Corik]

HellishFiend wrote...

Corik wrote...


I can't lie... I don't see anything "wrong" about London. Maybe the conduit run... However, after Harby's beam... everything turns weird to me.

So the fact that Reapers start dropping like flies when being hit by weapons that defy established codex lore, the presence of view bob, as well as areas, fights, and events being complete rehashes of prior events, none of that adds up as "wrong"? 

I dont think we're grasping at straws here. A lot of this stuff we've known about for weeks or months, but its starting to get to the point where the sheer amount of evidence calling the reality of London into question is starting to bear similarity to the amount throughout the course of the game that points toward IT itself.

Not saying it's not possible. I just say I don't see anything weird. I prefer the hallucination to start after Harby's beam so I'm totally biased too.

[HellishFiend]

Corik wrote...

Not saying it's not possible. I just say I don't see anything weird. I prefer the hallucination to start after Harby's beam so I'm totally biased too.

That's understandable. "classic" IT does seem to be the most obvious and compelling interpretation, which is why I never leaned towards questioning the reality of London before. 

But, if there was some truth to that talk that was floating around for awhile about how there might be some kind of retake-Earth related DLC in the future, it would make sense for Bioware to leave the possibility open that nothing has yet been done to actually retake Earth.

Modifié par HellishFiend, 10 juin 2012 - 03:36 .