55528 réponses à ce sujet

[HellishFiend]

Turbo_J wrote...


The breath scene has creaking sounds. Now I know Cronos does not (may not) have concrete - Humans didn't build it so who knows what's in there, but would the ground in London creek? - This is one of the reasons inferring that the hallucinations start after the shuttle crash or the transport truck crash make sense... they could make creaking noises.

As far as I'm concerned, the creaking sounds are confirmed to be terrestrial in nature, rather than space station sounds. Why am I so convinced? The multiplayer maps. Dagger especially has what sounds like those exactly same "creaking sounds"  that play quite often. 

[paxxton]

D.Sharrah wrote...

paxxton wrote...

D.Sharrah wrote...

First dream - Is it before or after you take the VS to Huerta?

I think it's after. Makes sense if the Citadel is an indoctrination device. But wouldn't that imply that all the Mass Relays have that capability?

EDIT: Doesn't Liara suggest Shepard to get rest after Mars? The dream might take place then.

That's what I can't remember...I remember that one of the dreams (the 2nd I believe) is after Garrus tells you to get some rest...Shep says I'll rest when I'm dead...Garrus says we need you thinking clearly, I'll make sure that Joker doesn't launch any suicide missions...lots of paraphrasing there but you should get the general idea.

I deleted that edit cause after checking it it turned out not to be the case. Liara (or somebody else) does suggest Shepard to get rest at a later point in the game, perhaps just before the second dream.

EDIT: I've noticed that I repeated what you said.

Modifié par paxxton, 10 juin 2012 - 07:56 .

[FFZero]

Don't know if this has been mentioned before but I was just listening to some of the sounds extracted from the game, specifically the ones used in the dream sequences, and I came across something the kid says that I can't say that I've heard in game before. The clip has the kid saying what clearly sounds like 'Please come home'. Now correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't everything the kid says in the dream based on what he says back on Earth? Don't think I've ever heard him saying ‘please come home’.

Also I'm pretty sure I'm going to have nightmares tonight, that kids laugh is seriously creeping me out.

[D.Sharrah]

TJBartlemus wrote...

I enjoy that everyone has their ideas on where the dream starts, but all I ask is for some proof to support it. Having not waken up from the third dream seems illogical to the story and  there is not proof to support it. As well with Cronos station similarites, there is just speculation. Not proof. If you guys do find proof on that PM me and let me know!!!

So far the only feasible explainations to where the dreams start or there is indoctrination influence so far is the original IT, and what we believe is that the beam is an indoctrination device...(please let me know if I am missing any that have proof that I haven't mentioned.)

My idea is that the fact that the beam is an indoctrination device goes hand in hand with the IT, and explains what I felt was an absence of a lead up to the "indoctrination dream". As Shepard gets closer to the beam he starts experiancing some form of indoctrination induced narcolepsy. Definition: "Narcolepsy is a neurological disorder that affects the
control of sleep and wakefulness. People with narcolepsy experience
excessive daytime sleepiness and intermittent, uncontrollable episodes
of falling asleep during the daytime. These sudden sleep attacks may
occur during any type of activity at any time of the day." Shepard starts having what I believe is where he is both awake but getting images from his subconcious and not notice it. The difference between Narcolepsy and what I am descibing would be that Shepard wouldn't notice the change and be in a "limbo" between asleep and awake. When he finally gets  hit with Harby's beam it shoots him into full blown sleep and into the "indoctrination dream".

Personally I am a fan of the "Waking Nightmare Theory" and that Shepard starts to experience partial hallucination/partial reality from the time he wakes up from the end of the third dream all the way to end...with the effects of Indoctrination slowly gaining strength as he nears his goal.  Which explains why the further you get along with the final act the stranger things become.

[UrgentArchengel]

Speaking of weird dreams. I practically dreamed up a ME4 plus IT EC once. It involved the Andromeda Galaxy, and a Civil War. Even named the race that created the Reapers. The Cyral. They are a new threat from Andromeda.

[paxxton]

UrgentArchengel wrote...

Speaking of weird dreams. I practically dreamed up a ME4 plus IT EC once. It involved the Andromeda Galaxy, and a Civil War. Even named the race that created the Reapers. The Cyral. They are a new threat from Andromeda.

You've played ME4? Lucky you!

[HellishFiend]

Rifneno wrote...

I'd like to point out that fans of lucid dreaming check their watches often for anomalies like that.  Lucid dreams are dreams where you know you're dreaming and can then have some fun since you know you're not in reality.  There's subtle clues you can watch for to tip you off but you have to watch for them in your obviously waking hours too so they're such a habit you'll do them in dreams.  One of the most prominent is checking your watch very often.  If hours pass in what was obviously minutes or such, that's a huge tipoff.  Apparently the way our brains work when dreaming is that we can remember what time we saw on our watch a few moments ago but our mind still picks something almost ranom to display on the watch.

As you say, it could be nothing... but that could be the significance if it is on purpose.

Just wanted to point out that Rifneno is exactly right about this.

I used to lucid dream at least a couple of times a week. It is extremely enjoyable for many reasons (it's essentially your own personal Matrix or Holodeck, whichever floats your boat, and it feels real), but it takes a lot of conscious effort during your waking hours to "exercise" your ability to "wake up" while inside your dreams (note: perhaps Starbinger is referring to lucidity within dreams when he says "wake up"?). Eventually I got lazy and stopped doing my reality checks and the lucid dreams became less frequent and eventually stopped altogether. 

[D.Sharrah]

UrgentArchengel wrote...

Speaking of weird dreams. I practically dreamed up a ME4 plus IT EC once. It involved the Andromeda Galaxy, and a Civil War. Even named the race that created the Reapers. The Cyral. They are a new threat from Andromeda.

Now you are just teasing...you know that you can't drop something like without going into detail.  We demand a script for this game!   

[Rifneno]

D.Sharrah wrote...

Speaking of the dreams...I was wondering if there was any way that we could tie them more directly to Indoctrination...and the only thing that I can really think of is the specific timing of the dreams in game...what I mean to say what is the in game timeline of events around each dream? I seem to remember that they occur after sections of gameplay where Shep has been in close contact with Reapers/reaper tech...is this right? If so, can we fairly say that there is as much as correlation b/w the dreams and reapers as there is b/w the dreams and increased stress? I don't think that it is enough that we can say there is a direct cause and effect...but a correlation along with the symbolism that seems to strike a chord with Indoctrination itself, clearly strengthens the argument.

1. Arrival dialogue shows us that Kenson, as well as other members of the project, were experiencing creepy dreams as part of their indoctrination. Kenson in specific was being haunted by memories of her past failures.
2. One of the chief symptoms of indoctrination is whispers you can't quite make out. The dreams are packed with these. Packed.
3. The rachni queen refers to "oily shadows" in reference to indoctrination. The shadowy figures in the dreams definitely have a wavering effect to them like oil. Though "oily shadows" is also used to describe the strange visual filter that looks like dark "tendrils" at the edges of the screen.
4. Literalists claim the dreams are symptomatic of post traumatic stress disorder (PTSD). While true that nightmares are a symptom of PTSD, they're far from the only one. The rest of them are noticably absent for Shepard. They are not, however, absent from the asari commando in counseling and Kelly Chambers, both of whom seem to actually have PTSD. Unlike the literalists BioWare did their homework and actually knows there's more to PTSD than just nightmares. The biggest symptom is an extreme aversion to the circumstances that lead to the trauma. This is why Kelly Chambers won't come back to the Normandy and why the asari wants to be away from humans and refuses to bathe. Probably why she wants the gun too though it's unclear since she kills herself with it if she does get it. If Shepard had PTSD, then he'd have an extreme aversion to Reapers and Earth. Which, to say the very least, he doesn't.

[D.Sharrah]

HellishFiend wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

I'd like to point out that fans of lucid dreaming check their watches often for anomalies like that.  Lucid dreams are dreams where you know you're dreaming and can then have some fun since you know you're not in reality.  There's subtle clues you can watch for to tip you off but you have to watch for them in your obviously waking hours too so they're such a habit you'll do them in dreams.  One of the most prominent is checking your watch very often.  If hours pass in what was obviously minutes or such, that's a huge tipoff.  Apparently the way our brains work when dreaming is that we can remember what time we saw on our watch a few moments ago but our mind still picks something almost ranom to display on the watch.

As you say, it could be nothing... but that could be the significance if it is on purpose.

Just wanted to point out that Rifneno is exactly right about this.

I used to lucid dream at least a couple of times a week. It is extremely enjoyable for many reasons (it's essentially your own personal Matrix or Holodeck, whichever floats your boat, and it feels real), but it takes a lot of conscious effort during your waking hours to "exercise" your ability to "wake up" while inside your dreams (note: perhaps Starbinger is referring to lucidity within dreams when he says "wake up"?). Eventually I got lazy and stopped doing my reality checks and the lucid dreams became less frequent and eventually stopped altogether. 

That's the problem with lucid dreaming...just too much damn work.  When I am sleeping I don't want to have to work...I just want to be entertained.

Modifié par D.Sharrah, 10 juin 2012 - 08:03 .

[UrgentArchengel]

D.Sharrah wrote...

UrgentArchengel wrote...

Speaking of weird dreams. I practically dreamed up a ME4 plus IT EC once. It involved the Andromeda Galaxy, and a Civil War. Even named the race that created the Reapers. The Cyral. They are a new threat from Andromeda.

Now you are just teasing...you know that you can't drop something like without going into detail.  We demand a script for this game!   

Lol!  I've been working on a simple script, just to get the idea in motion, but I gotta work in IT though.  Had some writers block there.

[HellishFiend]

D.Sharrah wrote...

That's the problem with lucid dreaming...just too much damn work.  When I am sleeping I don't want to have to work...I just want to be entertained.

No no... the work comes when you're awake, it happens naturally while youre asleep, because of the habits you develop during the day. 

[paxxton]

D.Sharrah wrote...

UrgentArchengel wrote...

Speaking of weird dreams. I practically dreamed up a ME4 plus IT EC once. It involved the Andromeda Galaxy, and a Civil War. Even named the race that created the Reapers. The Cyral. They are a new threat from Andromeda.

Now you are just teasing...you know that you can't drop something like without going into detail.  We demand a script for this game!   

He could give us advice on how to induce such dreams. Perhaps we can buy the catalyst in a store. Is Tequila Se'lai good enough for this?

Modifié par paxxton, 10 juin 2012 - 08:59 .

[TJBartlemus]

blooregard wrote...






I'll just put this here for now.

This was 17 days ago but came across it and found it interesting. Maybe some of you remember this.

So my conclusion is that you are on the bottom side of the Citadel? Then there are some issues with that.

1- You went up meaning that you would have gone up the tower, not down.
2- Gravity generally on a space station is one way, you can't have both.

I am going to get proof to prove when you press the open citadel buttons that you are facing like if you were in the tower. Not upside down. If someone could help me that would be appreciated.

Edit: Help not ep

Modifié par TJBartlemus, 10 juin 2012 - 08:10 .

[munnellyladt]

Anybody notice the oily shadow in the backround when shepard is crawling towards the control panel?

[D.Sharrah]

Rifneno wrote...

D.Sharrah wrote...

Speaking of the dreams...I was wondering if there was any way that we could tie them more directly to Indoctrination...and the only thing that I can really think of is the specific timing of the dreams in game...what I mean to say what is the in game timeline of events around each dream? I seem to remember that they occur after sections of gameplay where Shep has been in close contact with Reapers/reaper tech...is this right? If so, can we fairly say that there is as much as correlation b/w the dreams and reapers as there is b/w the dreams and increased stress? I don't think that it is enough that we can say there is a direct cause and effect...but a correlation along with the symbolism that seems to strike a chord with Indoctrination itself, clearly strengthens the argument.

1. Arrival dialogue shows us that Kenson, as well as other members of the project, were experiencing creepy dreams as part of their indoctrination. Kenson in specific was being haunted by memories of her past failures.
2. One of the chief symptoms of indoctrination is whispers you can't quite make out. The dreams are packed with these. Packed.
3. The rachni queen refers to "oily shadows" in reference to indoctrination. The shadowy figures in the dreams definitely have a wavering effect to them like oil. Though "oily shadows" is also used to describe the strange visual filter that looks like dark "tendrils" at the edges of the screen.
4. Literalists claim the dreams are symptomatic of post traumatic stress disorder (PTSD). While true that nightmares are a symptom of PTSD, they're far from the only one. The rest of them are noticably absent for Shepard. They are not, however, absent from the asari commando in counseling and Kelly Chambers, both of whom seem to actually have PTSD. Unlike the literalists BioWare did their homework and actually knows there's more to PTSD than just nightmares. The biggest symptom is an extreme aversion to the circumstances that lead to the trauma. This is why Kelly Chambers won't come back to the Normandy and why the asari wants to be away from humans and refuses to bathe. Probably why she wants the gun too though it's unclear since she kills herself with it if she does get it. If Shepard had PTSD, then he'd have an extreme aversion to Reapers and Earth. Which, to say the very least, he doesn't.

Yes, completely agree with all these points.  In fact #4, was the issue that I was trying to address.  I think that the PTSD argument made by literalists is fair...what I was hoping, is that if we examined the timeline for each dream - could we discover anything else that would strongly correlate to the dreams?  If we can, then if would give a very strong counter argument to the PTSD talk - and would help to strengthen IT'ers position that the dreams are in fact a majore hint at IT.  If all that rambling make sense...if not, then I do apologize for wasting your time with this pointless drivel. 

[paxxton]

I suggest someone analyzes the soundtrack. Specifically search for infrasounds in the piece titled "Dream" that plays during each of the 3 dream sequences.

Modifié par paxxton, 10 juin 2012 - 08:09 .

[JasonSic]

FFZero wrote...

Don't know if this has been mentioned before but I was just listening to some of the sounds extracted from the game, specifically the ones used in the dream sequences, and I came across something the kid says that I can't say that I've heard in game before. The clip has the kid saying what clearly sounds like 'Please come home'. Now correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't everything the kid says in the dream based on what he says back on Earth? Don't think I've ever heard him saying ‘please come home’.

Also I'm pretty sure I'm going to have nightmares tonight, that kids laugh is seriously creeping me out.

Do you remember which file it's from? I extracted all the dialog too, but there's like 42,342 files lol.

[Riot86]

HellishFiend wrote...

Riot86 wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...
[...]
I'm continuing to work on the Normandy infrasound evidence, but I may simply not have what I need.
[...]

I have no idea what you are talking about, bit it sounds pretty interesting...can you explain what you are trying to find to a tech-noob like me?

Infrasound is one of the things cited by the codex as a Reaper Indoctrination tool.

Infrasound is a real life thing that can and does cause psychological effects. In fact, the same can be said about most, if not all of the things the codex entry cites. 

That's all well and good, but normally we rely on the game to tell or indicate to us when any of those things are present. However, most large speakers can reproduce infrasound, but it is usually a pointless affair since we cant hear it, and it can be damaging to the speakers at high volumes. TSA has some professional audio equipment that allows him to filter sound down to very specific ranges, and speakers that can safely reproduce them. He claims to have filtered out everything above 20hz, and is still getting heavy woofer movement. 

What we need is either a video like this that proves the existence of infrasound on the Normandy through woofer movement, or something like this (the view in the upper right corner), which displays a visual representation of the frequencies within the audio signal. 

Thanks for the explanation...that's an awesome idea, hope someone here has the right equipment to see into it

If someone could prove that there is subwoofer movement on the Normandy even though our human ears cannot hear a thing, that would be a "Big One" fur sure. Sorry I can't assist in this matter, as I said I'm notr actually a tech-guy  

The Derelict Reaper, Object Rho, Cronos Station, the Relay Monument or even the Citadel itself might be places worth checking out while investigating the Infrasound.

[FFZero]

JasonSic wrote...

FFZero wrote...

Don't know if this has been mentioned before but I was just listening to some of the sounds extracted from the game, specifically the ones used in the dream sequences, and I came across something the kid says that I can't say that I've heard in game before. The clip has the kid saying what clearly sounds like 'Please come home'. Now correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't everything the kid says in the dream based on what he says back on Earth? Don't think I've ever heard him saying ‘please come home’.

Also I'm pretty sure I'm going to have nightmares tonight, that kids laugh is seriously creeping me out.

Do you remember which file it's from? I extracted all the dialog too, but there's like 42,342 files lol.

wwise_norhub_dreams I think.

[D.Sharrah]

HellishFiend wrote...

D.Sharrah wrote...

That's the problem with lucid dreaming...just too much damn work.  When I am sleeping I don't want to have to work...I just want to be entertained.

No no... the work comes when you're awake, it happens naturally while youre asleep, because of the habits you develop during the day. 

Doesn't matter when the work comes...awake...asleep...just too much.  What can I say I am very lazy...if I want to have really crazy dreams - I prefer to do it via the sweat lodge method...extreme heat (especially when you have a fever) is an easy way to trigger these dreams...just got to make sure that you have plenty of water near you.

[HellishFiend]

Riot86 wrote...

Thanks for the explanation...that's an awesome idea, hope someone here has the right equipment to see into it

If someone could prove that there is subwoofer movement on the Normandy even though our human ears cannot hear a thing, that would be a "Big One" fur sure. Sorry I can't assist in this matter, as I said I'm notr actually a tech-guy  

The Derelict Reaper, Object Rho, Cronos Station, the Relay Monument or even the Citadel itself might be places worth checking out while investigating the Infrasound.

That's just the thing though, we already know there is subwoofer movement, and lots of it. The problem is without that specific equipment or analyzer, we dont know if any of it is around the 15hz ballpark. If there is any around that area, its basically confirmation that there is an indoctrination signal on the Normandy. TSA says it's confirmed based on his tests, but we still need proof. 

[TJBartlemus]

EpyonX3 wrote....

Check this out. If Shepard was on the Citadel, then where are all of the features of the decision room?

This also helps with what I said in a fact the the decision room doesn't even exist.

[JasonSic]

FFZero wrote...

JasonSic wrote...

FFZero wrote...

Don't know if this has been mentioned before but I was just listening to some of the sounds extracted from the game, specifically the ones used in the dream sequences, and I came across something the kid says that I can't say that I've heard in game before. The clip has the kid saying what clearly sounds like 'Please come home'. Now correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't everything the kid says in the dream based on what he says back on Earth? Don't think I've ever heard him saying ‘please come home’.

Also I'm pretty sure I'm going to have nightmares tonight, that kids laugh is seriously creeping me out.

Do you remember which file it's from? I extracted all the dialog too, but there's like 42,342 files lol.

wwise_norhub_dreams I think.

I hear it too.

wwise_norhub_dreams.01 - You can't help me.
wwise_norhub_dreams.02 - Please come home.
wwise_norhub_dreams.03 - Everyone's dying.

I remember the kid saying 01 and 03 back on earth, but not 02...

And what is 04 to 12? It sounds like Harbinger laughing in the background or something.

Modifié par JasonSic, 10 juin 2012 - 08:25 .

[Corik]

Wow, this is getting really interesting