55528 réponses à ce sujet

[BleedingUranium]

Dwailing wrote...

BleedingUranium wrote...

boeloe wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

TJBartlemus wrote...

Well the point of the theory is that most of what you see did happen or most likely happened but Shepards mind is messing with the details.

I'm also leaning this way, pre mako crash atleast.

Yeah, I agree that Priority: Earth does seem kind of off at times.  It wouldn't surprise me if Bioware tells us with the EC that at least some of it was hallucinated.  Not the battles, not the talks with his crew, but some of the things that he sees, like the stuff in the apartment, the husk in the door, you know, stuff like that.

This.

Although I'm leaning slighty more to getting hit by Harby's beam as the point where Shepard starts to hallucinate everything rather than the mako crash. Because exactly after that point is where most of 'evidence'  for IT in that sequence starts.

Also it seems to make more sense from a storytelling perspective, although I can't exactly articulate why.

Probably something to do with the crash being abrupt and unseen, which felt very anti-climatic; whereas the beam run was like "holy**** holy**** holy**** holy**** ARG!"

Ah, that reminds me of this scene. 
 

LOL I never got around to seeing that movie, but that's hilarious!

[Dwailing]

BleedingUranium wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

BleedingUranium wrote...

boeloe wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

TJBartlemus wrote...

Well the point of the theory is that most of what you see did happen or most likely happened but Shepards mind is messing with the details.

I'm also leaning this way, pre mako crash atleast.

Yeah, I agree that Priority: Earth does seem kind of off at times.  It wouldn't surprise me if Bioware tells us with the EC that at least some of it was hallucinated.  Not the battles, not the talks with his crew, but some of the things that he sees, like the stuff in the apartment, the husk in the door, you know, stuff like that.

This.

Although I'm leaning slighty more to getting hit by Harby's beam as the point where Shepard starts to hallucinate everything rather than the mako crash. Because exactly after that point is where most of 'evidence'  for IT in that sequence starts.

Also it seems to make more sense from a storytelling perspective, although I can't exactly articulate why.

Probably something to do with the crash being abrupt and unseen, which felt very anti-climatic; whereas the beam run was like "holy**** holy**** holy**** holy**** ARG!"

Ah, that reminds me of this scene. 
 

LOL I never got around to seeing that movie, but that's hilarious!

IMHO, it's a really funny movie.

[boeloe]

HellishFiend wrote...

boeloe wrote...

This.

Although I'm leaning slighty more to getting hit by Harby's beam as the point where Shepard starts to hallucinate everything rather than the mako crash. Because exactly after that point is where most of 'evidence'  for IT in that sequence starts.

Also it seems to make more sense from a storytelling perspective, although I can't exactly articulate why.

Normally I would agree, but I think we've found too many things wrong with London to accept it all at face value. Bioware is generally very good at not breaking their own lore, and they seem to do it quite blatantly several times in London. 

NB, I'm not disputing the fact that Shepard is undergoing some of the effects of indoctrination, screwing with his perception of reality during Priority: London. Just pointing out what I find the most logical point in time where hallucination takes over completely.

But in a nutshell what are these things wrong with London (pre mako crash) again?

[TJBartlemus]

BleedingUranium wrote...

ThisOneIsPunny wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

TJBartlemus wrote...

Well the point of the theory is that most of what you see did happen or most likely happened but Shepards mind is messing with the details.

I'm also leaning this way, pre mako crash atleast.

Yeah, I agree that Priority: Earth does seem kind of off at times.  It wouldn't surprise me if Bioware tells us with the EC that at least some of it was hallucinated.  Not the battles, not the talks with his crew, but some of the things that he sees, like the stuff in the apartment, the husk in the door, you know, stuff like that.

Speaking of that, did anyone ever deduce why the skeletons looked the way they did?
Or did everyone eventually agree to it being some kind of dark symbolism?

@Dwailing That's what I'm going with for that mission.

@ThisOneIsPunny I dunno, they look kinda strange, but I thought all the skeletons in ME looked like that.

Well my contribution I had about the skeletons the last time it came up was that they were burnt. However the fact that they are burnt was illogical for several reasons. One is that Reapers wouldn't burn bodies because it is a waste of organic material and they use both alive and dead bodies. Two they are the only things in the room that are burnt.

I would believe it is either symbolic or going with my Waking Nightmare Theory add on to the IT is that the bodies are a manifistation of Shepards subcconsious. Remember the bed looks like his and in his last dream he was burnt to death.

[balance5050]

Andromidius wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

boeloe wrote...

This.

Although I'm leaning slighty more to getting hit by Harby's beam as the point where Shepard starts to hallucinate everything rather than the mako crash. Because exactly after that point is where most of 'evidence'  for IT in that sequence starts.

Also it seems to make more sense from a storytelling perspective, although I can't exactly articulate why.

Normally I would agree, but I think we've found too many things wrong with London to accept it all at face value. Bioware is generally very good at not breaking their own lore, and they seem to do it quite blatantly several times in London. 

Well, ignoring the lore breaks in ME2.  Namely guns suddenly needing disposable heat sinks.

Which is a gameplay mechanic, but still!

They explained the gun heatsink thing in heir own lore though, so it's not really lore breaking.

[Dwailing]

TJBartlemus wrote...

BleedingUranium wrote...

ThisOneIsPunny wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

TJBartlemus wrote...

Well the point of the theory is that most of what you see did happen or most likely happened but Shepards mind is messing with the details.

I'm also leaning this way, pre mako crash atleast.

Yeah, I agree that Priority: Earth does seem kind of off at times.  It wouldn't surprise me if Bioware tells us with the EC that at least some of it was hallucinated.  Not the battles, not the talks with his crew, but some of the things that he sees, like the stuff in the apartment, the husk in the door, you know, stuff like that.

Speaking of that, did anyone ever deduce why the skeletons looked the way they did?
Or did everyone eventually agree to it being some kind of dark symbolism?

@Dwailing That's what I'm going with for that mission.

@ThisOneIsPunny I dunno, they look kinda strange, but I thought all the skeletons in ME looked like that.

Well my contribution I had about the skeletons the last time it came up was that they were burnt. However the fact that they are burnt was illogical for several reasons. One is that Reapers wouldn't burn bodies because it is a waste of organic material and they use both alive and dead bodies. Two they are the only things in the room that are burnt.

I would believe it is either symbolic or going with my Waking Nightmare Theory add on to the IT is that the bodies are a manifistation of Shepards subcconsious. Remember the bed looks like his and in his last dream he was burnt to death.

You know, come to think of it, the burned skeleton COULD be a shout out to the whole Shepard burning thing at the end of the last dream, although I should point out that it is accurate that all the skeletons look like that, so it might be a genuine case of reused asset.

[BleedingUranium]

Andromidius wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

boeloe wrote...

This.

Although I'm leaning slighty more to getting hit by Harby's beam as the point where Shepard starts to hallucinate everything rather than the mako crash. Because exactly after that point is where most of 'evidence'  for IT in that sequence starts.

Also it seems to make more sense from a storytelling perspective, although I can't exactly articulate why.

Normally I would agree, but I think we've found too many things wrong with London to accept it all at face value. Bioware is generally very good at not breaking their own lore, and they seem to do it quite blatantly several times in London. 

Well, ignoring the lore breaks in ME2.  Namely guns suddenly needing disposable heat sinks.

Which is a gameplay mechanic, but still!

I heard EA was to blame for that, wanting ME to be more shooter like, but it's one of the few changes I didn't like. Unlike most of the people here (I think) who come from an RPG background, I come from an FPS one, but I still don't like it. Mostly because ME guns having unlimited ammo actually made sense. I'm very concerned with realism

Also, they poked fun at that in ME3

[Dwailing]

BleedingUranium wrote...

Andromidius wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

boeloe wrote...

This.

Although I'm leaning slighty more to getting hit by Harby's beam as the point where Shepard starts to hallucinate everything rather than the mako crash. Because exactly after that point is where most of 'evidence'  for IT in that sequence starts.

Also it seems to make more sense from a storytelling perspective, although I can't exactly articulate why.

Normally I would agree, but I think we've found too many things wrong with London to accept it all at face value. Bioware is generally very good at not breaking their own lore, and they seem to do it quite blatantly several times in London. 

Well, ignoring the lore breaks in ME2.  Namely guns suddenly needing disposable heat sinks.

Which is a gameplay mechanic, but still!

I heard EA was to blame for that, wanting ME to be more shooter like, but it's one of the few changes I didn't like. Unlike most of the people here (I think) who come from an RPG background, I come from an FPS one, but I still don't like it. Mostly because ME guns having unlimited ammo actually made sense. I'm very concerned with realism

Also, they poked fun at that in ME3

Admittedly, I should point out that, when the guns in ME1 overheated, it DID take longer for them to cool down than it takes to replace a thermal clip.

Edit: Also, I am pretty sure that guns DO hit with more power now.

Modifié par Dwailing, 11 juin 2012 - 03:08 .

[BleedingUranium]

Dwailing wrote...

TJBartlemus wrote...

BleedingUranium wrote...

ThisOneIsPunny wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

TJBartlemus wrote...

Well the point of the theory is that most of what you see did happen or most likely happened but Shepards mind is messing with the details.

I'm also leaning this way, pre mako crash atleast.

Yeah, I agree that Priority: Earth does seem kind of off at times.  It wouldn't surprise me if Bioware tells us with the EC that at least some of it was hallucinated.  Not the battles, not the talks with his crew, but some of the things that he sees, like the stuff in the apartment, the husk in the door, you know, stuff like that.

Speaking of that, did anyone ever deduce why the skeletons looked the way they did?
Or did everyone eventually agree to it being some kind of dark symbolism?

@Dwailing That's what I'm going with for that mission.

@ThisOneIsPunny I dunno, they look kinda strange, but I thought all the skeletons in ME looked like that.

Well my contribution I had about the skeletons the last time it came up was that they were burnt. However the fact that they are burnt was illogical for several reasons. One is that Reapers wouldn't burn bodies because it is a waste of organic material and they use both alive and dead bodies. Two they are the only things in the room that are burnt.

I would believe it is either symbolic or going with my Waking Nightmare Theory add on to the IT is that the bodies are a manifistation of Shepards subcconsious. Remember the bed looks like his and in his last dream he was burnt to death.

You know, come to think of it, the burned skeleton COULD be a shout out to the whole Shepard burning thing at the end of the last dream, although I should point out that it is accurate that all the skeletons look like that, so it might be a genuine case of reused asset.

Ahhh! Get out of my head!

[Andromidius]

boeloe wrote...

But in a nutshell what are these things wrong with London (pre mako crash) again?

Hades Cannon Destroyers (never seen before, never seen again).

Cain acting very strangely when fired at said Hades Cannon (it becomes a homing missile, and kills it with a single shot).  If you keep the other Cain and fire it off, it acts normally just like in ME2.

Thannix Missile (never even mentioned before, no codex entry, no explaination as to how it works or why it can one shot Destroyers).

Burned/rotten skeletons in a room, no sign of damage anywhere else, along with a dead Hamster.  In a room that looks suspitiously like Shepard's cabin.

Lots of da ja vu all over London.

Weapon bobbing (unstable).

Lack of music for parts of the mission.

Weird dialogue from certain characters.

[D.Sharrah]

Reposted due to being lost in the thread...

D.Sharrah wrote...

D.Sharrah wrote...

Byne - Any thoughts on updating the OP? It would be cool if there were links for the following...

Memorial Wall - IT Memorial Wall for all those that have contributed
Arian's Marketing Theory
Arian's Script
Prettz gun change video when finished

Anyone else think of anything?

Edited for clarification of Memorial Wall.  Reposted to make sure that Byne sees it and to re-emphasize the bolded question at the bottom.

[Andromidius]

balance5050 wrote...

They explained the gun heatsink thing in heir own lore though, so it's not really lore breaking.

Its lore bending, but its not really too terrible.*

Another minor issue is Conrade Verner saying you put a gun to his face even if you didn't, though that was a simple oversight.  One they fixed in an amusing fashion in ME3.

So I suppose I can handwave both of those.  Nothing like as bad as what happened in London.

*Edit: Ignoring that the change is recent.  And yet all weapons still use the same standardised Thermal Clips.  Even ones that were in the hands of people stranded on a planet for over a decade.  But then I guess that's another gameplay choice required - it would be pretty nasty if you couldn't reload during Geth/Collector/Jacob's Loyalty Missions!

Modifié par Andromidius, 11 juin 2012 - 03:13 .

[lex0r11]

Dwailing wrote...

[...]

You know, come to think of it, the burned skeleton COULD be a shout out to the whole Shepard burning thing at the end of the last dream, although I should point out that it is accurate that all the skeletons look like that, so it might be a genuine case of reused asset.

REALLY like how creativity is lighting up again in this thread.
Lighting up. Huhu. Burned skeletons. Hihi.


Okay, sorry. I have to get home already to my bed..

[Sero303]

A thought ...
So I am catching up on some csi/csi-NY today and I think the next case the team(s) should solve is the brutal and unnecessary death of the mass effect franchise ...

[Dwailing]

lex0r11 wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

[...]

You know, come to think of it, the burned skeleton COULD be a shout out to the whole Shepard burning thing at the end of the last dream, although I should point out that it is accurate that all the skeletons look like that, so it might be a genuine case of reused asset.

REALLY like how creativity is lighting up again in this thread.
Lighting up. Huhu. Burned skeletons. Hihi.


Okay, sorry. I have to get home already to my bed..

I understand.  I'm heading to bed soon, too.  BTW, if you don't mind my asking, what country are you from?

[TJBartlemus]

lex0r11 wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

[...]

You know, come to think of it, the burned skeleton COULD be a shout out to the whole Shepard burning thing at the end of the last dream, although I should point out that it is accurate that all the skeletons look like that, so it might be a genuine case of reused asset.

REALLY like how creativity is lighting up again in this thread.
Lighting up. Huhu. Burned skeletons. Hihi.


Okay, sorry. I have to get home already to my bed..

@Dwailling Do you know of any other times that burnt skeletons were used in ME3 or even the entire series? I can't remember.

[Dwailing]

Sero303 wrote...

A thought ...
So I am catching up on some csi/csi-NY today and I think the next case the team(s) should solve is the brutal and unnecessary death of the mass effect franchise ...

Heh, they'd probably come to the same conclusion that we have.

[BleedingUranium]

I don't know why they called them Thanix Missiles, because they were just Javelin Missiles. Same as the ones in the last N7 mission in ME2, where you have to save the colony. Scanning that same colony in ME3 gets you Javelin Missiles for the Crucible.

The only thing wrong with the ones in London is they're misnamed.

[Dwailing]

TJBartlemus wrote...

lex0r11 wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

[...]

You know, come to think of it, the burned skeleton COULD be a shout out to the whole Shepard burning thing at the end of the last dream, although I should point out that it is accurate that all the skeletons look like that, so it might be a genuine case of reused asset.

REALLY like how creativity is lighting up again in this thread.
Lighting up. Huhu. Burned skeletons. Hihi.


Okay, sorry. I have to get home already to my bed..

@Dwailling Do you know of any other times that burnt skeletons were used in ME3 or even the entire series? I can't remember.

I'm pretty sure that most of the skeletons in ME2 were burnt.  Give me a sec to look at your picture of the skeleton in question and I'll check if it's a reused asset.

Edit: I can't quite tell based on the angle.  It MIGHT be a reused asset, but unless someone can dig in the game files, I wouldn't be able to tell for sure.

Modifié par Dwailing, 11 juin 2012 - 03:18 .

[HellishFiend]

Andromidius wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

boeloe wrote...

This.

Although I'm leaning slighty more to getting hit by Harby's beam as the point where Shepard starts to hallucinate everything rather than the mako crash. Because exactly after that point is where most of 'evidence'  for IT in that sequence starts.

Also it seems to make more sense from a storytelling perspective, although I can't exactly articulate why.

Normally I would agree, but I think we've found too many things wrong with London to accept it all at face value. Bioware is generally very good at not breaking their own lore, and they seem to do it quite blatantly several times in London. 

Well, ignoring the lore breaks in ME2.  Namely guns suddenly needing disposable heat sinks.

Which is a gameplay mechanic, but still!

That's different. It's not broken lore. In that case, they gave a sci-fi plausible explanation for why they did it. Does it follow common sense? No. But it's still sci-fi plausible, and is explained well enough to make it believable. 

That isnt the case in London. Weapons dont work the way they should, with no explanation as to why. One of the weapons doesnt even have a codex entry. Reaper Destroyers dont take as much punishment before going down as they should. There is no precedent for that. To my knowledge, this is the only time in the entire trilogy that they blatantly break their own lore without trying to tweak it first so that it works and remains sci fi plausible. 

[D.Sharrah]

Clearly there is some weird stuff going on in London...I just can't scrap the entirity of the mission on Earth.

On another note completely...I once postulated that you could have your cake and eat it too. Meaning that IT could be true, but there was some "face value" to the endings as well. What if the rather than taking Shepard's physical body to the Citadel/Crucible, the Conduit uploaded his mind only...we have a similar experience to the Geth Consensus, where our mind is trying to make sense of things and what we "see" is not "real"...but it has real consequences.

[Dwailing]

D.Sharrah wrote...

Clearly there is some weird stuff going on in London...I just can't scrap the entirity of the mission on Earth.

On another note completely...I once postulated that you could have your cake and eat it too. Meaning that IT could be true, but there was some "face value" to the endings as well. What if the rather than taking Shepard's physical body to the Citadel/Crucible, the Conduit uploaded his mind only...we have a similar experience to the Geth Consensus, where our mind is trying to make sense of things and what we "see" is not "real"...but it has real consequences.

Were you the one with the VR Theory a while back?

[boeloe]

Andromidius wrote...

boeloe wrote...

But in a nutshell what are these things wrong with London (pre mako crash) again?

Hades Cannon Destroyers (never seen before, never seen again).

Cain acting very strangely when fired at said Hades Cannon (it becomes a homing missile, and kills it with a single shot).  If you keep the other Cain and fire it off, it acts normally just like in ME2.

Thannix Missile (never even mentioned before, no codex entry, no explaination as to how it works or why it can one shot Destroyers).

Burned/rotten skeletons in a room, no sign of damage anywhere else, along with a dead Hamster.  In a room that looks suspitiously like Shepard's cabin.

Lots of da ja vu all over London.

Weapon bobbing (unstable).

Lack of music for parts of the mission.

Weird dialogue from certain characters.

Ok thanks.

In my opinion none of it is strong enough to able to say that Priority: Earth is hallucinated in its entire, but that something funky is going on is obvious.

The fact that large parts of the mission played without music is something which really bothered me, it never occured to me to connect this to IT though.

Modifié par boeloe, 11 juin 2012 - 03:21 .

[D.Sharrah]

Dwailing wrote...

D.Sharrah wrote...

Clearly there is some weird stuff going on in London...I just can't scrap the entirity of the mission on Earth.

On another note completely...I once postulated that you could have your cake and eat it too. Meaning that IT could be true, but there was some "face value" to the endings as well. What if the rather than taking Shepard's physical body to the Citadel/Crucible, the Conduit uploaded his mind only...we have a similar experience to the Geth Consensus, where our mind is trying to make sense of things and what we "see" is not "real"...but it has real consequences.

Were you the one with the VR Theory a while back?

Don't think it was me...but I think that I have seen similar things...I think I first posted this as an idea on the old thread...but there is no way that I could tell you if I was the first.

[Andromidius]

HellishFiend wrote...

That's different. It's not broken lore. In that case, they gave a sci-fi plausible explanation for why they did it. Does it follow common sense? No. But it's still sci-fi plausible, and is explained well enough to make it believable. 

That isnt the case in London. Weapons dont work the way they should, with no explanation as to why. One of the weapons doesnt even have a codex entry. Reaper Destroyers dont take as much punishment before going down as they should. There is no precedent for that. To my knowledge, this is the only time in the entire trilogy that they blatantly break their own lore without trying to tweak it first so that it works and remains sci fi plausible. 

Well we can differ on the usage of 'lore breaks'   Its a minor issue, even the deal with why even old guns use thermal clips now...  Its a gameplay element, and I can live with it.

But yeah, the whole Missile issue is messed up.  Even if we just assume they are Javalins, why can they kill Destroyers so easily?  If they always could, why aren't they the main armament of every starship? 

Same deal with Cains - they magically grow in strength if you point them at a Reaper?