55528 réponses à ce sujet

[Stigweird85]

UrgentArchengel wrote...

bigstig wrote...

Just spent the last hour looking for a solution to my problem, looks like I'll not get to see the EC unless I'm prepared to either (a) Hack my 360 or ( Start everything from scratch and create a brand new gamertag and repurchase all content that I have unlocked on MP as well as purchase a new xbox live account.

Not a happy camper in the slightest here.

Damn, the f***ing blows.  I have a similar problem.  I have to use my old xbox or redo everything.  I rather not redo nearly 6 years of gaming and a 45,000 GS.

I saw in another thread that iwas first reported about 3-5 days into the games release so the chances of a patch are looking at slim to none. Guess I'll get to test if the "good ending" can be unlocked with 0 MP then. It may take some time as I don't think I can even import an older gamesave into it so it'll be ME1 for me

[HellishFiend]

MaximizedAction wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

That whole scene reeked of indoctrination. There's a weird screen shake going on the whole conversation. Plus, the Reaper speaks in Sovereign's voice. Granted we've only heard two Reapers speak (Sovereign and Harbinger) but they had different voices. Why does this Destroyer have the voice of the Capital Ship vanguard? Sovereign's music is even playing in the background. And while Shepard and the Reaper discuss how it is or isn't possible for organics and machines to co-exist, Tali and Legion sitting nearby don't say a word. Tali and Legion have nothing to say on that topic?

I call shenanigans.

I agree. And in addition to the points you raise, the one time you do see someone other than Shepard during this conversation, in this case Tali approaching from behind, the Camera never actually shows all 3 of them in the same shot. 

When you think of it, every scene in ME3 where Shepard interacts with a Reaper or something Reaper related like Starbinger, we only see Shepard interacting. Within movies, that situation would be clear within a second.
Now we only need a restaurant scene between Shepard and a Reaper and the waitress ignoring the Reaper. A classic.

They had to be very subtle, otherwise more players would have caught on the first time around. For example, in the link I provided, if Tali had said something like, "Shepard, why are you just standing there staring at a dead Reaper?", it would have been somewhat of a giveaway. 

[HellishFiend]

EpyonX3 wrote...


Oh that's not what I meant by weak points lol.

I meant weak points on the reaper.

Oh, I see, that makes more sense, then. 

Still, you may have noticed a discussion I had about Dwailing about the difference between IT speculations/evidence and coming up with unprecedented explanations. I think that same thing fits here.

Like I said to Dwailing, IT is believable because it is based on established lore and context, and uses precedents as examples to enhance the plausibility of each item.

In many cases, especially with face value, fans are having to come up with random guesses excuses for Bioware as to why they have violated their own precedents and lore. And that is supposed to be more believable than the IT explanation, which is backed up by the aforementioned precedents and lore? I really do not think so. 

[MaximizedAction]

HellishFiend wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

That whole scene reeked of indoctrination. There's a weird screen shake going on the whole conversation. Plus, the Reaper speaks in Sovereign's voice. Granted we've only heard two Reapers speak (Sovereign and Harbinger) but they had different voices. Why does this Destroyer have the voice of the Capital Ship vanguard? Sovereign's music is even playing in the background. And while Shepard and the Reaper discuss how it is or isn't possible for organics and machines to co-exist, Tali and Legion sitting nearby don't say a word. Tali and Legion have nothing to say on that topic?

I call shenanigans.

I agree. And in addition to the points you raise, the one time you do see someone other than Shepard during this conversation, in this case Tali approaching from behind, the Camera never actually shows all 3 of them in the same shot. 

When you think of it, every scene in ME3 where Shepard interacts with a Reaper or something Reaper related like Starbinger, we only see Shepard interacting. Within movies, that situation would be clear within a second.
Now we only need a restaurant scene between Shepard and a Reaper and the waitress ignoring the Reaper. A classic.

They had to be very subtle, otherwise more players would have caught on the first time around. For example, in the link I provided, if Tali had said something like, "Shepard, why are you just standing there staring at a dead Reaper?", it would have been somewhat of a giveaway. 

Of course, you're right! But I guess they found the best of both worlds. They provided an entertaining enough action-scifi shooter for 'casual' gamers but also something for the mind, for the more involved players.
And if anyone thinks that the ending was still too ambiguous...thank Bioware for not going all David Lynch on us.

Modifié par MaximizedAction, 11 juin 2012 - 03:30 .

[Corik]

HellishFiend wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...


Oh that's not what I meant by weak points lol.

I meant weak points on the reaper.

Oh, I see, that makes more sense, then. 

Still, you may have noticed a discussion I had about Dwailing about the difference between IT speculations/evidence and coming up with unprecedented explanations. I think that same thing fits here.

Like I said to Dwailing, IT is believable because it is based on established lore and context, and uses precedents as examples to enhance the plausibility of each item.

In many cases, especially with face value, fans are having to come up with random guesses excuses for Bioware as to why they have violated their own precedents and lore. And that is supposed to be more believable than the IT explanation, which is backed up by the aforementioned precedents and lore? I really do not think so. 

That reaction is fueled by Bioware not confirming or denying IT. Nobody knows what's the truth. Are they geniuses or they sucumbed to greed and bad writting?

The evidence is there. Just looking to the ending. Shadows, reaper growls, everything so strange, so weird. The decision chamber standing there, in the open without anybody ever investigating it... There's definetely something there. Alas, until Bioware confirms what they really did... we can only hope.

[HellishFiend]

Corik wrote...

That reaction is fueled by Bioware not confirming or denying IT. Nobody knows what's the truth. Are they geniuses or they sucumbed to greed and bad writting?

The evidence is there. Just looking to the ending. Shadows, reaper growls, everything so strange, so weird. The decision chamber standing there, in the open without anybody ever investigating it... There's definetely something there. Alas, until Bioware confirms what they really did... we can only hope.

If you want to turn hope to belief, just look into Bioware's history with their games and storylines. IT makes sense not only because of in-universe precedents, but because of real-life precedents too. 

[Corik]

HellishFiend wrote...

Corik wrote...

That reaction is fueled by Bioware not confirming or denying IT. Nobody knows what's the truth. Are they geniuses or they sucumbed to greed and bad writting?

The evidence is there. Just looking to the ending. Shadows, reaper growls, everything so strange, so weird. The decision chamber standing there, in the open without anybody ever investigating it... There's definetely something there. Alas, until Bioware confirms what they really did... we can only hope.

If you want to turn hope to belief, just look into Bioware's history with their games and storylines. IT makes sense not only because of in-universe precedents, but because of real-life precedents too. 

Not only that. ME3 is the first game of the series in which we don't know if Shepard is dead or alive. Even with the breathing scene. In ME1 I thought Shepard was dead, but then he appeared between the rubble. In ME2, you died or lived, but that was clear. Now... we don't know. What the hell happened? Is Shepard alive? Is he dead?

My bet is on the game not being truly ended.

Besides, ME3 is the first game where it seems any choice you made doesn't matter at all. The end is the "same" if you take every fleet in the galaxy to Earth or if you just have minimum reinforcements.

It's clear to me... that's not the end of the war. That's not the end of Shepard... He can't end like that.

[delldo]

MaximizedAction wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

That whole scene reeked of indoctrination. There's a weird screen shake going on the whole conversation. Plus, the Reaper speaks in Sovereign's voice. Granted we've only heard two Reapers speak (Sovereign and Harbinger) but they had different voices. Why does this Destroyer have the voice of the Capital Ship vanguard? Sovereign's music is even playing in the background. And while Shepard and the Reaper discuss how it is or isn't possible for organics and machines to co-exist, Tali and Legion sitting nearby don't say a word. Tali and Legion have nothing to say on that topic?

I call shenanigans.

I agree. And in addition to the points you raise, the one time you do see someone other than Shepard during this conversation, in this case Tali approaching from behind, the Camera never actually shows all 3 of them in the same shot. 

When you think of it, every scene in ME3 where Shepard interacts with a Reaper or something Reaper related like Starbinger, we only see Shepard interacting. Within movies, that situation would be clear within a second.
Now we only need a restaurant scene between Shepard and a Reaper and the waitress ignoring the Reaper. A classic.

They had to be very subtle, otherwise more players would have caught on the first time around. For example, in the link I provided, if Tali had said something like, "Shepard, why are you just standing there staring at a dead Reaper?", it would have been somewhat of a giveaway. 

Of course, you're right! But I guess they found the best of both worlds. They provided an entertaining enough action-scifi shooter for 'casual' gamers but also something for the mind, for the more involved players.
And if anyone thinks that the ending was still too ambiguous...thank Bioware for not going all David Lynch on us.

I would not have minded if they went all David Lynch on us; that dude is a crazy mother****** and after watching Twin Peaks in its entirety I watched Fire Walk with me, if that wasn't enough I also bought and played Deadly Premonition because it was inspired by him...  I really like that guy. 

[UrgentArchengel]

delldo wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

That whole scene reeked of indoctrination. There's a weird screen shake going on the whole conversation. Plus, the Reaper speaks in Sovereign's voice. Granted we've only heard two Reapers speak (Sovereign and Harbinger) but they had different voices. Why does this Destroyer have the voice of the Capital Ship vanguard? Sovereign's music is even playing in the background. And while Shepard and the Reaper discuss how it is or isn't possible for organics and machines to co-exist, Tali and Legion sitting nearby don't say a word. Tali and Legion have nothing to say on that topic?

I call shenanigans.

I agree. And in addition to the points you raise, the one time you do see someone other than Shepard during this conversation, in this case Tali approaching from behind, the Camera never actually shows all 3 of them in the same shot. 

When you think of it, every scene in ME3 where Shepard interacts with a Reaper or something Reaper related like Starbinger, we only see Shepard interacting. Within movies, that situation would be clear within a second.
Now we only need a restaurant scene between Shepard and a Reaper and the waitress ignoring the Reaper. A classic.

They had to be very subtle, otherwise more players would have caught on the first time around. For example, in the link I provided, if Tali had said something like, "Shepard, why are you just standing there staring at a dead Reaper?", it would have been somewhat of a giveaway. 

Of course, you're right! But I guess they found the best of both worlds. They provided an entertaining enough action-scifi shooter for 'casual' gamers but also something for the mind, for the more involved players.
And if anyone thinks that the ending was still too ambiguous...thank Bioware for not going all David Lynch on us.

I would not have minded if they went all David Lynch on us; that dude is a crazy mother****** and after watching Twin Peaks in its entirety I watched Fire Walk with me, if that wasn't enough I also bought and played Deadly Premonition because it was inspired by him...  I really like that guy. 

You should try Alan Wake.  That has lots of references to Twin Peaks.

[delldo]

Oh I am lol. ^

[MaximizedAction]

Corik wrote...

Not only that. ME3 is the first game of the series in which we don't know if Shepard is dead or alive. Even with the breathing scene. In ME1 I thought Shepard was dead, but then he appeared between the rubble. In ME2, you died or lived, but that was clear. Now... we don't know. What the hell happened? Is Shepard alive? Is he dead?

My bet is on the game not being truly ended.

Besides, ME3 is the first game where it seems any choice you made doesn't matter at all. The end is the "same" if you take every fleet in the galaxy to Earth or if you just have minimum reinforcements.

It's clear to me... that's not the end of the war. That's not the end of Shepard... He can't end like that.

Hm, now that you mention ME2. With IT being able to cover nearly every tidbit of wtf in ME3, now ME2 seems like the odd man out:
Shep just randomly dying and then coming back, twice, if counting in ME3; a sun increasing its evolution, another one changing its temperature of radiation depending on Shepard's good will....

On the other hand, a lot of possibilites for explainations in form of DLC.

Modifié par MaximizedAction, 11 juin 2012 - 03:57 .

[MaximizedAction]

delldo wrote...

I would not have minded if they went all David Lynch on us; that dude is a crazy mother****** and after watching Twin Peaks in its entirety I watched Fire Walk with me, if that wasn't enough I also bought and played Deadly Premonition because it was inspired by him...  I really like that guy. 

I know about Twin Peaks, but I was more refering to something like Mulholland Drive. I have watched arthouse films, so I thought I was prepared...holy cow.

[Corik]

MaximizedAction wrote...

Corik wrote...

Not only that. ME3 is the first game of the series in which we don't know if Shepard is dead or alive. Even with the breathing scene. In ME1 I thought Shepard was dead, but then he appeared between the rubble. In ME2, you died or lived, but that was clear. Now... we don't know. What the hell happened? Is Shepard alive? Is he dead?

My bet is on the game not being truly ended.

Besides, ME3 is the first game where it seems any choice you made doesn't matter at all. The end is the "same" if you take every fleet in the galaxy to Earth or if you just have minimum reinforcements.

It's clear to me... that's not the end of the war. That's not the end of Shepard... He can't end like that.

Hm, now that you mention ME2. With IT can conver nearly every tidbit of wtf in ME3, now ME2 seems like the odd man out:
Shep just randomly dying and then coming back, twice, if counting in ME3; a sun increasing its evolution, another one changing its temperature of radiation depending on Shepard's good will....

On the other hand, a lot of possibilites for explainations in form of DLC.

Hehe, as you may already know, I'm not a fan of going too far away with IT. My belief is more simple than many of the theories around. I just think Shepard is exhausted and hurt because of the deaths of his friends (Thane, Mordin). All of it used during his unconscious moments: his dreams while he's far from the reapers (some kind of remnant of his exposure to the reapers on Vancouver) and when he is unconscious after harby's beam, now near the reapers which can mess directly with his head.

So basically, my belief is that Shepard is unconscious and suffering an indoctrination attempt after Harby's beam. Of course, not saying that can't be more to it... but... well, just my opinion.

Modifié par Corik, 11 juin 2012 - 03:54 .

[HellishFiend]

Corik wrote...


Hehe, as you may already know, I'm not a fan of going too far away with IT. My belief is more simple than many of the theories around. I just think Shepard is exhausted and hurt because of the deaths of his friends (Thane, Mordin). All of it used during his unconscious moments: his dreams while he's far from the reapers (some kind of remnant of his exposure to the reapers on Vancouver) and when he is unconscious after harby's beam, now near the reapers which can mess directly with his head.

So basically, my belief is that Shepard is unconscious and suffering an indoctrination attempt after Harby's beam. Of course, not saying that can't be more to it... but... well, just my opinion.

I understand that, and I'm typically not inclined to try to convince someone out of their belief unless they specify that theyre open about it. But a lot of us have already speculated that interpretation to death. Looking at the possible starting points that are further back gives us more material to work with for speculation. It's all in good fun. This is probably the best meta gaming experience I've ever had. And plus, the more wild theories we come up with, the more chances we have of getting things right! For all we know, London truly is a hallucination and Bioware didnt expect us to figure it out. 

Modifié par HellishFiend, 11 juin 2012 - 04:02 .

[Corik]

HellishFiend wrote...

Corik wrote...


Hehe, as you may already know, I'm not a fan of going too far away with IT. My belief is more simple than many of the theories around. I just think Shepard is exhausted and hurt because of the deaths of his friends (Thane, Mordin). All of it used during his unconscious moments: his dreams while he's far from the reapers (some kind of remnant of his exposure to the reapers on Vancouver) and when he is unconscious after harby's beam, now near the reapers which can mess directly with his head.

So basically, my belief is that Shepard is unconscious and suffering an indoctrination attempt after Harby's beam. Of course, not saying that can't be more to it... but... well, just my opinion.

I understand that, and I'm typically not inclined to try to convince someone out of their belief unless they specify that theyre open about it. But a lot of us have already speculated that interpretation to death. Looking at the possible starting points that are further back gives us more material to work with for speculation. It's all in good fun. This is probably the best meta gaming experience I've ever had. And plus, the more wild theories we come up with, the more chances we have of getting things right! For all we know, London truly is a hallucination and Bioware didnt expect us to figure it out. 

Very true. If it wasn't for this thread... Maybe I would be still depressed. When I finished my first playthrough I felt something wasn't right... but all the feelings combined prevented me from thinking too much about it. This thread gave me hope and helped me indetifying all those weird things.

Now... I know I'm biased. I have my perfect ending in my mind and that's what I want to see... Bioware will decide that for us though. The most important thing is having hope and trusting Bioware. I'm sure they won't let us down

[HellishFiend]

I should add that I think a big part of the reason other players tend to think we're crazy or delusional is because they dont understand why we're speculating. They think we're trying to come up with explanations that will allow us to feel like we havent been hurt or betrayed. That typically isnt the case. I cant speak for everyone, but I speculate because I find the process enjoyable, not because I'm trying to avoid feeling hurt.

[HellishFiend]

Corik wrote...
 Bioware will decide that for us though. The most important thing is having hope and trusting Bioware. I'm sure they won't let us down

Exactly. When people see hope and trust as a weakness, it's usually because they've been burned too many times before. But shelling up and protecting yourself against hurt in that fashion is no way to live. If you've been burned, you just havent put your trust and faith in the right people. It's like love. If love has never worked out for you and only caused you pain, you dont stop trying to love. That only makes things worse and makes happiness and satisfaction impossible.

Maybe I'm going too deep into this, but it's all true really. There is a lot of psychology involved with the fan reaction we've seen from all this. 

[n00bsauce2010]

I haven't been on here in probably a good month. What happened to the old thread? And I just read a brand new article from IGN. Are there any extremely important bits about extended cut in terms of INDOC that I should know about?

[HellishFiend]

n00bsauce2010 wrote...

I haven't been on here in probably a good month. What happened to the old thread? And I just read a brand new article from IGN. Are there any extremely important bits about extended cut in terms of INDOC that I should know about?

The old thread was locked because it was getting trolled and getting off-topic, and also because it was "too long", according to a PM from Chris. It's a strange coincidence that they locked it on the page number that matches the year the Reaper war started....

About the EC, BW has been appropriately tight lipped about it, so there is no news in that regard. Everything they've said can be taken in either context, which is actually a great sign for IT if you think about it. 

[byne]

HellishFiend wrote...

n00bsauce2010 wrote...

I haven't been on here in probably a good month. What happened to the old thread? And I just read a brand new article from IGN. Are there any extremely important bits about extended cut in terms of INDOC that I should know about?

The old thread was locked because it was getting trolled and getting off-topic, and also because it was "too long", according to a PM from Chris. It's a strange coincidence that they locked it on the page number that matches the year the Reaper war started....

About the EC, BW has been appropriately tight lipped about it, so there is no news in that regard. Everything they've said can be taken in either context, which is actually a great sign for IT if you think about it. 

To be fair they locked it on what would be the 100th anniversary of the end of the Reaper war, not the year it started.

[HellishFiend]

byne wrote...

To be fair they locked it on what would be the 100th anniversary of the end of the Reaper war, not the year it started.

Ooh, ok. Had my facts confused. Thanks for the correction!

[Big Bad]

MaximizedAction wrote...

delldo wrote...

I would not have minded if they went all David Lynch on us; that dude is a crazy mother****** and after watching Twin Peaks in its entirety I watched Fire Walk with me, if that wasn't enough I also bought and played Deadly Premonition because it was inspired by him...  I really like that guy. 

I know about Twin Peaks, but I was more refering to something like Mulholland Drive. I have watched arthouse films, so I thought I was prepared...holy cow.

Yeah that movie is a serious trip. On the plus side, it made me come to the realization that Naomi Watts is one of the
most beautiful people on earth.

[senshi420]

twin peaks..heh...lynch's movies have a special place in my heart...considering im just a small town boy from deep river ontario gotta love it when your town of 4k people is name dropped in horror movies.

[MaximizedAction]

Big Bad wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...

delldo wrote...

I would not have minded if they went all David Lynch on us; that dude is a crazy mother****** and after watching Twin Peaks in its entirety I watched Fire Walk with me, if that wasn't enough I also bought and played Deadly Premonition because it was inspired by him...  I really like that guy. 

I know about Twin Peaks, but I was more refering to something like Mulholland Drive. I have watched arthouse films, so I thought I was prepared...holy cow.

Yeah that movie is a serious trip. On the plus side, it made me come to the realization that Naomi Watts is one of the
most beautiful people on earth.

The King Kong movie did that to me. Jackson did such a fine job in making some truly beautiful scenes. And the soundtrack by Howard...the only other soundtrack that made me shed a few tears was ME3's.
And we come on-topic.

Modifié par MaximizedAction, 11 juin 2012 - 04:33 .

[senshi420]

delldo wrote...

I would not have minded if they went all David Lynch on us; that dude is a crazy mother****** and after watching Twin Peaks in its entirety I watched Fire Walk with me, if that wasn't enough I also bought and played Deadly Premonition because it was inspired by him...  I really like that guy. 

remind me again of the name of the hammerhead missions in ME2? :innocent: