55528 réponses à ce sujet

[senshi420]

Dendio1 wrote...

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

Dendio1 wrote...

How can one fight against indoctrination if they are unaware of it?

Ashely: How are you supposed to fight something  that can worm it's way into your head?
Shepard: I don't know...But we don't have a choice.

I think a better question is how does someone fight against indoctrination at all? Pure willpower seems to be the only thing and even then all the indoctrinatee's can do is end their life. But, that's once someone is indoctrinated fully.

Even people with strong willpower need to be aware enough of the threat to gain a conscious will to fight. Shepard always looks bewildered in his dreams, and even afraid at times.

know if anyone has flycammed the dreams yet? 

edit: welcome to 700!

Modifié par senshi420, 12 juin 2012 - 10:01 .

[lex0r11]

Dendio1 wrote...

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

Dendio1 wrote...

How can one fight against indoctrination if they are unaware of it?

Ashely: How are you supposed to fight something  that can worm it's way into your head?
Shepard: I don't know...But we don't have a choice.

I think a better question is how does someone fight against indoctrination at all? Pure willpower seems to be the only thing and even then all the indoctrinatee's can do is end their life. But, that's once someone is indoctrinated fully.

Even people with strong willpower need to be aware enough of the threat to gain a conscious will to fight. Shepard always looks bewildered in his dreams, and even afraid at times.

Easy.

[senshi420]

lex0r11 wrote...

Dendio1 wrote...

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

Dendio1 wrote...

How can one fight against indoctrination if they are unaware of it?

Ashely: How are you supposed to fight something  that can worm it's way into your head?
Shepard: I don't know...But we don't have a choice.

I think a better question is how does someone fight against indoctrination at all? Pure willpower seems to be the only thing and even then all the indoctrinatee's can do is end their life. But, that's once someone is indoctrinated fully.

Even people with strong willpower need to be aware enough of the threat to gain a conscious will to fight. Shepard always looks bewildered in his dreams, and even afraid at times.

Easy.

renegade interrupt stab a child? 
somehow i doubt the world is ready for that yet
as much as starbinger deserves it.
i cant think of many groups of  people who wouldn't lose thier minds over that imagery being in a game.

Modifié par senshi420, 12 juin 2012 - 10:10 .

[gunslinger_ruiz]

lex0r11 wrote...

Course Lex0r's beats mine

[lex0r11]

senshi420 wrote...

[...]

renegade interrupt stab a child? 
somehow i doubt the world is ready for that yet
as much as starbinger deserves it.
i cant think of many groups of  people who would lose thier minds over that imagery being in a game.

I get the problem, but it could be better explained while ingame.

Someone who really believes that "AI" there is a child just because it looks like one is far from being able to fight indoctrination. Besides, this would not be the first time a child is killed on screen in a video game.

*SPOILER*
Latest COD, a little girl is shown right next to an exploding truck with chemicals in it.

Imagery.

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

Course Lex0r's beats mine

*bow*

Modifié par lex0r11, 12 juin 2012 - 10:15 .

[Starbuck8]

Macross wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

Actually I'm leaning towards the complete opposite of your idea, for the most part. 

Try looking at it this way:

The kid represents the indoctrination attempt. When Shepard approaches the kid, the resistant part of his mind (I like to call it "Anderson") tries to warn him by flashing the red light on him and blaring the Reaper horn. "Anderson" is basically saying "LOOK OUT! IT'S A REAPER!"  When he finally gets to the kid, the resistant part of his mind takes it a step further and lights the kid aflame. 

Then in the "final" dream at the end of the game, "Anderson" is gone, so we have only the player to continue to literally light the indoctrination attempt aflame by picking destroy. You even see one last image of "Anderson" picking destroy, demonstrating which option the resistant part of your mind would go with. 

See, I can understand that idea but it doesn't answer why the kid runaways from Shepard and why Shep is constantly chasing the kid (I'm intepreting it as Shepard is Indoctrated and the kid bit is running away from him). I think the kid was geniuenly ment to represent innonce in those dreams and Starbinger taking on his form at the end was meant to represent that innocence being twisted.

I gues the kid running away could be explained by saying Starbinger was trying to lead Shepard towards Indoctrination but I feel that's to convulted and that the one above is much simpler. Of course this is just my opinion.

You know, I kinda like your idea. That symbolism in the dreams really makes sense, and I think it's a possibility for what BioWare intended. Honestly both yours and Hellish's ideas about the symbolism of the boy and the dreams could work.

Although, it doesn't quite seem to fit in with the boy seen in the beginning of the game on earth. We're pretty sure he's not real since at least after we first see him playing in the garden (possibly may even be a hallucination then too) since he inexplicable appears on that balcony, far away from the garden rooftop, and runs through the locked door. This plays more to the fact that Harbinger is using the boy to conjure feelings of guilt in Shepard, but could possibly fit in with your interpretation and I'm not quite seeing it.

[gunslinger_ruiz]

lex0r11 wrote...

senshi420 wrote...

[...]

renegade interrupt stab a child? 
somehow i doubt the world is ready for that yet
as much as starbinger deserves it.
i cant think of many groups of  people who would lose thier minds over that imagery being in a game.

I get the problem, but it could be better explained while ingame.

Someone who really believes that "AI" there is a child just because it looks like one is far from being able to fight indoctrination. Besides, this would not be the first time a child is killed on screen in a video game.

*SPOILER*
Latest COD, a little girl is shown right next to an exploding truck with chemicals in it.

Imagery.

That scene was less of a shock than I thought it was gonna be. Probably because I knew the truck was going to do some kind of exploding, Still pretty gruesome.

Anyway, don't think the media/critics would be on Bioware too much for having the option to stab a AI assuming the form of a holographic child. If anything they're on them for the same-sex LI options.

[senshi420]

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

lex0r11 wrote...

senshi420 wrote...

[...]

renegade interrupt stab a child? 
somehow i doubt the world is ready for that yet
as much as starbinger deserves it.
i cant think of many groups of  people who would lose thier minds over that imagery being in a game.

I get the problem, but it could be better explained while ingame.

Someone who really believes that "AI" there is a child just because it looks like one is far from being able to fight indoctrination. Besides, this would not be the first time a child is killed on screen in a video game.

*SPOILER*
Latest COD, a little girl is shown right next to an exploding truck with chemicals in it.

Imagery.

That scene was less of a shock than I thought it was gonna be. Probably because I knew the truck was going to do some kind of exploding, Still pretty gruesome.

Anyway, don't think the media/critics would be on Bioware too much for having the option to stab a AI assuming the form of a holographic child. If anything they're on them for the same-sex LI options.

easily solved by having starby shift to harby for the killshot so to say
either way
its hard to deny the power of the act itself if it is indeed all in sheps head.

[Earthborn_Shepard]

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

lex0r11 wrote...

senshi420 wrote...

[...]

renegade interrupt stab a child? 
somehow i doubt the world is ready for that yet
as much as starbinger deserves it.
i cant think of many groups of  people who would lose thier minds over that imagery being in a game.

I get the problem, but it could be better explained while ingame.

Someone who really believes that "AI" there is a child just because it looks like one is far from being able to fight indoctrination. Besides, this would not be the first time a child is killed on screen in a video game.

*SPOILER*
Latest COD, a little girl is shown right next to an exploding truck with chemicals in it.

Imagery.

That scene was less of a shock than I thought it was gonna be. Probably because I knew the truck was going to do some kind of exploding, Still pretty gruesome.

Anyway, don't think the media/critics would be on Bioware too much for having the option to stab a AI assuming the form of a holographic child. If anything they're on them for the same-sex LI options.

Great thing is that they can hardly criticize that openly.. discrimination and all
but yeah I remember the sh*tstorm with Fox and ME1.. that was glorious

[lex0r11]

Or Bioshock anyone?

*SPOILER*

When you choose to harvest the little sisters? Did people criticise that? That's the closest I can think of when it comes to "killing" children in video games.

[senshi420]

lex0r11 wrote...

Or Bioshock anyone?

*SPOILER*

When you choose to harvest the little sisters? Did people criticise that? That's the closest I can think of when it comes to "killing" children in video games.

true enough, on the flipside, i cant tell you how many mini nukes i launched into little lamplight in Fallout 3 to no effect. 


that place should be glowing for centuries.

[gunslinger_ruiz]

Earthborn_Shepard wrote...

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

lex0r11 wrote...

senshi420 wrote...

[...]

renegade interrupt stab a child? 
somehow i doubt the world is ready for that yet
as much as starbinger deserves it.
i cant think of many groups of  people who would lose thier minds over that imagery being in a game.

I get the problem, but it could be better explained while ingame.

Someone who really believes that "AI" there is a child just because it looks like one is far from being able to fight indoctrination. Besides, this would not be the first time a child is killed on screen in a video game.

*SPOILER*
Latest COD, a little girl is shown right next to an exploding truck with chemicals in it.

Imagery.

That scene was less of a shock than I thought it was gonna be. Probably because I knew the truck was going to do some kind of exploding, Still pretty gruesome.

Anyway, don't think the media/critics would be on Bioware too much for having the option to stab a AI assuming the form of a holographic child. If anything they're on them for the same-sex LI options.

Great thing is that they can hardly criticize that openly.. discrimination and all
but yeah I remember the sh*tstorm with Fox and ME1.. that was glorious

I thought that was hilarious that ...what was she a "psychiatrist" or something? It sounded like she was making some stuff up, and assuming a lot about the game. Heard she issued an apology about that whole debacle, +points for gamers everywhere.

[Earthborn_Shepard]

It's still sad though how many gamers freak out just because there is the OPTION to have a gay Shepard. Youtube comments range from "Bull****, Shepard isn't gay!" to "LOL they want to make us all gay LOLOLOL!!!!111" and I'm like... are you serious?

[gunslinger_ruiz]

Earthborn_Shepard wrote...

It's still sad though how many gamers freak out just because there is the OPTION to have a gay Shepard. Youtube comments range from "Bull****, Shepard isn't gay!" to "LOL they want to make us all gay LOLOLOL!!!!111" and I'm like... are you serious?

Thankfully most Bioware fans are a bit more understanding of Shepards that are not their Shepards... At least I think so. I try not to use youtube as a gauge for bioware fans, too many trollers o_O

[Macross]

Starbuck8 wrote...

Macross wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

Actually I'm leaning towards the complete opposite of your idea, for the most part. 

Try looking at it this way:

The kid represents the indoctrination attempt. When Shepard approaches the kid, the resistant part of his mind (I like to call it "Anderson") tries to warn him by flashing the red light on him and blaring the Reaper horn. "Anderson" is basically saying "LOOK OUT! IT'S A REAPER!"  When he finally gets to the kid, the resistant part of his mind takes it a step further and lights the kid aflame. 

Then in the "final" dream at the end of the game, "Anderson" is gone, so we have only the player to continue to literally light the indoctrination attempt aflame by picking destroy. You even see one last image of "Anderson" picking destroy, demonstrating which option the resistant part of your mind would go with. 

See, I can understand that idea but it doesn't answer why the kid runaways from Shepard and why Shep is constantly chasing the kid (I'm intepreting it as Shepard is Indoctrated and the kid bit is running away from him). I think the kid was geniuenly ment to represent innonce in those dreams and Starbinger taking on his form at the end was meant to represent that innocence being twisted.

I gues the kid running away could be explained by saying Starbinger was trying to lead Shepard towards Indoctrination but I feel that's to convulted and that the one above is much simpler. Of course this is just my opinion.

You know, I kinda like your idea. That symbolism in the dreams really makes sense, and I think it's a possibility for what BioWare intended. Honestly both yours and Hellish's ideas about the symbolism of the boy and the dreams could work.

Although, it doesn't quite seem to fit in with the boy seen in the beginning of the game on earth. We're pretty sure he's not real since at least after we first see him playing in the garden (possibly may even be a hallucination then too) since he inexplicable appears on that balcony, far away from the garden rooftop, and runs through the locked door. This plays more to the fact that Harbinger is using the boy to conjure feelings of guilt in Shepard, but could possibly fit in with your interpretation and I'm not quite seeing it.

I agree and the only explanation I can think of is due to the Earth being surrounded by a load (understatement much) Reapers, that Shepards mind was under constant indoc attempts and his subconscious used the image of the kid he saw earlier to represent the part of his mind hiding from/fighting Indoc. Due to the bombardment of Indoc he hallucanited the kid hiding.

Again, this explanation of that bit is convulted and messy as well (I guess it's hard to find a near perfect interpetation of those dreams and the begining).

It could however be a mixtue of both, at that point Harbinger brought up the image as a way to incite guilt but had no control over how Sheps mind used it, which used it to fight Indoc.

[Starbuck8]

Earthborn_Shepard wrote...

It's still sad though how many gamers freak out just because there is the OPTION to have a gay Shepard. Youtube comments range from "Bull****, Shepard isn't gay!" to "LOL they want to make us all gay LOLOLOL!!!!111" and I'm like... are you serious?

Really? Ugh... just... <_<

[senshi420]

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

Earthborn_Shepard wrote...

It's still sad though how many gamers freak out just because there is the OPTION to have a gay Shepard. Youtube comments range from "Bull****, Shepard isn't gay!" to "LOL they want to make us all gay LOLOLOL!!!!111" and I'm like... are you serious?

Thankfully most Bioware fans are a bit more understanding of Shepards that are not their Shepards... At least I think so. I try not to use youtube as a gauge for bioware fans, too many trollers o_O

ill probably make a gayshep someday, pink armor all the way. i mean why not, its a role playing game.
people make a big deal out of silly things, and if they are afraid that a video game is going to make them gay, then the problem isnt with the game. its in their heads. 
and these people are the ones that believe being gay is a choice. /facedesk

[MaximizedAction]

Earthborn_Shepard wrote...

It's still sad though how many gamers freak out just because there is the OPTION to have a gay Shepard. Youtube comments range from "Bull****, Shepard isn't gay!" to "LOL they want to make us all gay LOLOLOL!!!!111" and I'm like... are you serious?

Youtube comments or rediculously conservative, populist tv networks?

[gunslinger_ruiz]

senshi420 wrote...

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

Earthborn_Shepard wrote...

It's still sad though how many gamers freak out just because there is the OPTION to have a gay Shepard. Youtube comments range from "Bull****, Shepard isn't gay!" to "LOL they want to make us all gay LOLOLOL!!!!111" and I'm like... are you serious?

Thankfully most Bioware fans are a bit more understanding of Shepards that are not their Shepards... At least I think so. I try not to use youtube as a gauge for bioware fans, too many trollers o_O

ill probably make a gayshep someday, pink armor all the way. i mean why not, its a role playing game.
people make a big deal out of silly things, and if they are afraid that a video game is going to make them gay, then the problem isnt with the game. its in their heads. 
and these people are the ones that believe being gay is a choice. /facedesk

Thought about making a gay shepard, but I can't resist romancing Liara. This poses a problem with both fem and broshep.... And it's not gay for femshep and Liara because asari are technically not female.

[Earthborn_Shepard]

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

senshi420 wrote...

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

Earthborn_Shepard wrote...

It's still sad though how many gamers freak out just because there is the OPTION to have a gay Shepard. Youtube comments range from "Bull****, Shepard isn't gay!" to "LOL they want to make us all gay LOLOLOL!!!!111" and I'm like... are you serious?

Thankfully most Bioware fans are a bit more understanding of Shepards that are not their Shepards... At least I think so. I try not to use youtube as a gauge for bioware fans, too many trollers o_O

ill probably make a gayshep someday, pink armor all the way. i mean why not, its a role playing game.
people make a big deal out of silly things, and if they are afraid that a video game is going to make them gay, then the problem isnt with the game. its in their heads. 
and these people are the ones that believe being gay is a choice. /facedesk

Thought about making a gay shepard, but I can't resist romancing Liara. This poses a problem with both fem and broshep.... And it's not gay for femshep and Liara because asari are technically not female.

I really hoped Ash would be bi in ME3.. but nope!

[gunslinger_ruiz]

Earthborn_Shepard wrote...

I really hoped Ash would be bi in ME3.. but nope!

Never got the feeling her character was bi is the thing, Kaidan sorta got the feeling he might have been in the first game. I recall Bioware intended Ash/Kaiden being romance  options for both Shepards but took it out after recieving some intense negative reviews during development (not entirely sure on this might wanna look it up). They left the "gay" romance dialogue on the disc though so modders found it later. Fun fact, there's some of that hidden in the data for ME2 with certain same-sex characters too.

[paxxton]

EpyonX3 wrote...

prettz wrote...

paxxton wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

I'm in a flycam mood. Anyone want me to verify anything?

Is there a second Anderson in the intro hidden in a room?

hear you go, had a video of it already on my drive
www.youtube.com/watch

Yeah that's where they keep models they need for use later. Before Shepard is even shown, I found these guys standing there.

Side note...

Here's more of that Symetrical Modeling.

Pic1

Pic2

This is the case with the 1M1 anntena and other objects with backwards writting.

Those links don't work.

To all, thanks for replying with videos and pics.

[Turbo_J]

Macross wrote...

WolfyZA wrote...

Yeah it has been mentioned before... Everytime a indoctrination attempt fails its followed up by a growling noise.

Like the sound that you hear everytime the kid runs away from you in your deams.

I've been thinking, in the dreams could the little kid not be a represenation of Indcotrination but rather represent Shepard fighting Indoctrination. In the dreams before the kid runaways from Shepard you always see the Red light over him (like the reaper targetting signal, which would be like the Reaper's targetting this part of his psychos to indoctrinate shepard) and then the Reaper sound and then the kid runaways.

So I'm theorising taht this is Shepard fighting indoctrination, the Kid representing what's left of him and runaway from Shep as Shep approaches, e.g runaway from Indoctrination. At the end of the Dream the kid begins to burn representing the fact that that part of Shepard has been taken over/ begun to be taken over/ has been indoctranted more.

In the final dream shows how much further Shepard has gone into Indoc by portraying the Kid with Shepard burning.

Thus the form of the Catylist less takes the form of Harbinge using the kid again but rather Harbinger using the image of the Kid (what's subconiously represented as the part fighting Indoc) as his final trick in defeating and submitting Shepard.

On an unreleated note: Anyone else notice how Liara's time capulse (well the light coming out of it) kind of looks like the Beam to the Citadel. (I noticed this after Liara said 'I just wrote you're name in the Stars' and I was like 'and yeah Starbinger wrote into the Genepool of every living creature'.), man that imagery comes up a lot

I noticed that on my second playthrough and it was a little creepy. I'm like; great, thanks to you, the next cycle will be well prepared to waste their time building this dud if they happen to thwart the Reapers attempt at flooding in through the Citadel. Nice going fool.

I think the kid is a symbol, but that symbol depends on player interpretation. I took his as a warning. Especially in the last dream where Shep looks like she is full of contempt, and the kid looks a little to satisfied as they both burn.

[gunslinger_ruiz]

paxxton wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

prettz wrote...

paxxton wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

I'm in a flycam mood. Anyone want me to verify anything?

Is there a second Anderson in the intro hidden in a room?

hear you go, had a video of it already on my drive
www.youtube.com/watch

Yeah that's where they keep models they need for use later. Before Shepard is even shown, I found these guys standing there.

Side note...

Here's more of that Symetrical Modeling.

Pic1

Pic2

This is the case with the 1M1 anntena and other objects with backwards writting.

Those links don't work.

To all, thanks for replying with videos and pics.

Right click links, copy location, paste in new tab/window. the links are probably too long, let me try something...



Yep [ img] [ /img] works, dunno if he's gonna see this at all though.

EDIT: At least for a second [ img] worked o_O. Disappeared on me. Seriously though, probably too long of a link.

Modifié par gunslinger_ruiz, 12 juin 2012 - 10:57 .

[Arian Dynas]

MaximizedAction wrote...

Earthborn_Shepard wrote...

It's still sad though how many gamers freak out just because there is the OPTION to have a gay Shepard. Youtube comments range from "Bull****, Shepard isn't gay!" to "LOL they want to make us all gay LOLOLOL!!!!111" and I'm like... are you serious?

Youtube comments or rediculously conservative, populist tv networks?

Why not both?