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[EpyonX3]

paxxton wrote...

EDI on Thessia? Why? What did she say?

It's not about what EDI says, but about what Vendetta does or doesn't say.

[Earthborn_Shepard]

MaximizedAction wrote...

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...

What if this is what makes Shepard so special? That would allow him to be one of the very few to withstand and maybe even overcome indoctrination?

Nothing, absolutely nothing.

he may have a powerful will but nothing says or even hints that Shepard is immune to Indoctrination. In fact when the greatest Spectre (before shepard) and a Matriach can both succumb, then Shepard is as liekly to succumb in time as anyone else.

Which is in my opinion is a big indication of Indocrtination because with the amount of reaper tech Shepard has been near he should be excibiting signs of Indoctrination.

You're absolutely correct in saying that nothing should make Shepard special. This is also why I accepted the IT within seconds. It follows almost trivially from the setting of ME3.
But my focus was more on the aftermath of it. Can he break free  (if Control/Synth indeed stand for giving in to indoctrination)? Or even in Destroy, why was he (we) able to resist it if most other victims don't?

So something has to make him special. And the events of ME2 offer ideal explainations.

I'm still pretty sure that Shep is the Catalyst.
The Catalyst being nothing more than someone able to unite the galaxy.

[Salient Archer]

EpyonX3 wrote...

paxxton wrote...

EDI on Thessia? Why? What did she say?

It's not about what EDI says, but about what Vendetta does or doesn't say.

I'll bite, what's the additional or omitted dialogue?

[paxxton]

Salient Archer wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

paxxton wrote...

EDI on Thessia? Why? What did she say?

It's not about what EDI says, but about what Vendetta does or doesn't say.

I'll bite, what's the additional or omitted dialogue?

I'm going to replay Thessia to check it out. No spoilers for now.

Modifié par paxxton, 12 juin 2012 - 12:47 .

[EpyonX3]

Rifneno wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

Not at all. I've acknowledged repeatedly that I could be wrong and
will admit to it both in text and video should IT be correct. I only
hope that if IT is true that they do it well and close any other plot
holes that IT might bring up.

And to answer your last question, I'm going with the first part.

What plot holes? I hear literalists talk about the plot holes of IT all the time but I've never heard what those supposed plot holes are. IT closes a ton of plot holes but I can't think of any that it creates.

1) The message at the end says Shepard ended the reaper threat, IT suggests the reapers are still alive at the end still harvesting.

2) The start of the hallucination.

3) Why the catalyst gives you a way out even though they've pretty much had full control over what Shepard sees throught the hallucination.

4) Vendetta does not recognize Shepard of being indoctrinated. If he's under the process of indoctrination, why doesn't shepard suffer the symptoms of it while awake? Shepard's indoctrination is different than others.

Those are some off the top of my head. I'm sure there are more.

[Unschuld]

Rifneno wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

Not at all. I've acknowledged repeatedly that I could be wrong and
will admit to it both in text and video should IT be correct. I only
hope that if IT is true that they do it well and close any other plot
holes that IT might bring up.

And to answer your last question, I'm going with the first part.

What plot holes? I hear literalists talk about the plot holes of IT all the time but I've never heard what those supposed plot holes are. IT closes a ton of plot holes but I can't think of any that it creates.

The only ones I can think of at the moment are Vendetta not detecting you and why you're given the destroy option even at low EMS. Both I can chalk up to misinterpretation/misunderstanding.

Edit: Damn ninjas....

EpyonX3 wrote...

1) The message at the end says Shepard ended the reaper threat, IT suggests the reapers are still alive at the end still harvesting.

2) The start of the hallucination.

 

#1: Yeah, I'm not sure where to stand on that one, but the message is kinda vague (despite the obvious DLC advertisement). IT explanation: Currently the player/Shepard believes he's stopped the Reaper threat, but that may not be the reality?

#2: Not sure how this is a plothole. Are you referring to when/if hallucination starts, or why the transition isn't overt enough to notice?

Modifié par Unschuld, 12 juin 2012 - 12:54 .

[Corik]

MaximizedAction wrote...

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...

What if this is what makes Shepard so special? That would allow him to be one of the very few to withstand and maybe even overcome indoctrination?

Nothing, absolutely nothing.

he may have a powerful will but nothing says or even hints that Shepard is immune to Indoctrination. In fact when the greatest Spectre (before shepard) and a Matriach can both succumb, then Shepard is as liekly to succumb in time as anyone else.

Which is in my opinion is a big indication of Indocrtination because with the amount of reaper tech Shepard has been near he should be excibiting signs of Indoctrination.

You're absolutely correct in saying that nothing should make Shepard special. This is also why I accepted the IT within seconds. It follows almost trivially from the setting of ME3.
But my focus was more on the aftermath of it. Can he break free  (if Control/Synth indeed stand for giving in to indoctrination)? Or even in Destroy, why was he (we) able to resist it if most other victims don't?

So something has to make him special. And the events of ME2 offer ideal explainations.

Well, Saren could break free from Indoctrination during your last conversation with him. Sure, he has been modified by the reapers to control his body, so he couldn't just "change his mind" and help shepard. He however broke free and killed himself to stop Sovereign.

[Earthborn_Shepard]

EpyonX3 wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

Not at all. I've acknowledged repeatedly that I could be wrong and
will admit to it both in text and video should IT be correct. I only
hope that if IT is true that they do it well and close any other plot
holes that IT might bring up.

And to answer your last question, I'm going with the first part.

What plot holes? I hear literalists talk about the plot holes of IT all the time but I've never heard what those supposed plot holes are. IT closes a ton of plot holes but I can't think of any that it creates.

1) The message at the end says Shepard ended the reaper threat, IT suggests the reapers are still alive at the end still harvesting.

2) The start of the hallucination.

3) Why the catalyst gives you a way out even though they've pretty much had full control over what Shepard sees throught the hallucination.

4) Vendetta does not recognize Shepard of being indoctrinated. If he's under the process of indoctrination, why doesn't shepard suffer the symptoms of it while awake? Shepard's indoctrination is different than others.

Those are some off the top of my head. I'm sure there are more.

There is a theory that the Prothean VIs can only detect Reaper implants. That's why it could sense that Saren and Kai Leng were indoctrinated, both had implants. Shepard didn't.. I mean.. it sounds realistic, doesn't it? How else would a VI be able to "sense" indoctrination than by scanning for implants?

[Salient Archer]

MaximizedAction wrote...

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...

What if this is what makes Shepard so special? That would allow him to be one of the very few to withstand and maybe even overcome indoctrination?

Nothing, absolutely nothing.

he may have a powerful will but nothing says or even hints that Shepard is immune to Indoctrination. In fact when the greatest Spectre (before shepard) and a Matriach can both succumb, then Shepard is as liekly to succumb in time as anyone else.

Which is in my opinion is a big indication of Indocrtination because with the amount of reaper tech Shepard has been near he should be excibiting signs of Indoctrination.

You're absolutely correct in saying that nothing should make Shepard special. This is also why I accepted the IT within seconds. It follows almost trivially from the setting of ME3.
But my focus was more on the aftermath of it. Can he break free  (if Control/Synth indeed stand for giving in to indoctrination)? Or even in Destroy, why was he (we) able to resist it if most other victims don't?

So something has to make him special. And the events of ME2 offer ideal explainations.

I don't think Shepard would be anymore immune to indoctrination than any other organic, more stubborn yes, but immune probably not.

I do often wonder if there was more to the Prothean beacon than just images and information; I know I'm really reaching when I say this (as there's no real evidence I know of) but could prothean scientists have implemented something in the beacon that would help Shepard be more resilient to the indoctrination process? Giving Shep the extra edge needed to break free of it's hold when it came to crunch time.

[Corik]

Unschuld wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

Not at all. I've acknowledged repeatedly that I could be wrong and
will admit to it both in text and video should IT be correct. I only
hope that if IT is true that they do it well and close any other plot
holes that IT might bring up.

And to answer your last question, I'm going with the first part.

What plot holes? I hear literalists talk about the plot holes of IT all the time but I've never heard what those supposed plot holes are. IT closes a ton of plot holes but I can't think of any that it creates.

The only ones I can think of at the moment are Vendetta not detecting you and why you're given the destroy option even at low EMS. Both I can chalk up to misinterpretation/misunderstanding.

You are not indoctrinated when talking to Vendetta. The indoctrination attempt is at the end of the game. The other thing was explained because Reapers had the upper hand in the battle with low EMS, so they don't really need to indoctrinate Shepard, just mess a little with his mind while they destroy the fleet.

[Unschuld]

Corik wrote...

Unschuld wrote...


The only ones I can think of at the moment are Vendetta not detecting you and why you're given the destroy option even at low EMS. Both I can chalk up to misinterpretation/misunderstanding.

You are not indoctrinated when talking to Vendetta. The indoctrination attempt is at the end of the game. The other thing was explained because Reapers had the upper hand in the battle with low EMS, so they don't really need to indoctrinate Shepard, just mess a little with his mind while they destroy the fleet.

I know, my interpretation is that   a.) Prothean VI's are not infallible, otherwise they wouldn't have been defeated by sleeper agents and   b.) The process Shepard could be under is subtle, not full-retard like Saren/TIM, but he is in the process of it. FR threshold regarding indoctrination for Shepard I believe would be at the RGB decision chamber.

[Macross]

EpyonX3 wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

Not at all. I've acknowledged repeatedly that I could be wrong and
will admit to it both in text and video should IT be correct. I only
hope that if IT is true that they do it well and close any other plot
holes that IT might bring up.

And to answer your last question, I'm going with the first part.

What plot holes? I hear literalists talk about the plot holes of IT all the time but I've never heard what those supposed plot holes are. IT closes a ton of plot holes but I can't think of any that it creates.

1) The message at the end says Shepard ended the reaper threat, IT suggests the reapers are still alive at the end still harvesting.

2) The start of the hallucination.

3) Why the catalyst gives you a way out even though they've pretty much had full control over what Shepard sees throught the hallucination.

4) Vendetta does not recognize Shepard of being indoctrinated. If he's under the process of indoctrination, why doesn't shepard suffer the symptoms of it while awake? Shepard's indoctrination is different than others.

Those are some off the top of my head. I'm sure there are more.

1) IF you think about it, that message also plays right after the breath ending. It's not apart of the hallucination and nore does it specify how Shepard stopped the Reapers, that ending is just as legit in an IT ending as well (you know, when Shepard actually does finish off the Reapers). And before you say that IT means there is no ending, IT also means that their will be further DLC to actually finish of the game.

2). The start of the hallucination can be one of several points, just becasue it's not specified does not make it a plothole, if IT is true, where the hallucination starts is left ambigouse to keep us Speculating.

3). IT states the Catalyst doesn't give you away out, that the Destroy is Shepards (or Anderson which is the Un-indoc part of Shepards) choice. To back that up, Destroy is the only ending Starbrat dismissies, because it's not the choice he wanted to give Shepard. As for it being the only choice in a destroy low-ems. it's because with a Low EMS the Reapers don't need Shepard. This is the ending where the Catylst treats Shepard like a dick, when you lack enought will-power how do you throw of Indoc (hint: Bullet to the brain pan- squich... to Quote River Tam), the low EMS destroy ending probably has Shep fighting of Indoc by shooting himself in the head (or that's atleast one possible explanation for it)

4.) As for Vendette, there have been so many explanations but the simplest is the Shep wasn't indoctrinanted enought to be detected yet (indoc is a slow process and if Vendette was full proof then you wouldn't have had the Indoctrainated Prothean splinter groups doing to much damage in the first place).

[MaximizedAction]

Unschuld wrote...

Corik wrote...

Unschuld wrote...


The only ones I can think of at the moment are Vendetta not detecting you and why you're given the destroy option even at low EMS. Both I can chalk up to misinterpretation/misunderstanding.

You are not indoctrinated when talking to Vendetta. The indoctrination attempt is at the end of the game. The other thing was explained because Reapers had the upper hand in the battle with low EMS, so they don't really need to indoctrinate Shepard, just mess a little with his mind while they destroy the fleet.

I know, my interpretation is that   a.) Prothean VI's are not infallible, otherwise they wouldn't have been defeated by sleeper agents and   b.) The process Shepard could be under is subtle, not full-retard like Saren/TIM, but he is in the process of it. FR threshold regarding indoctrination for Shepard I believe would be at the RGB decision chamber.

Is that what we're calling it now? Fine with me!

I also assume that the threshold are the choices. But taking Kotor as an example, I also have the hope that this is not the absolute point of no return. Of course, the choices must have consequences, but nothing final. You know....maybe a shot in the head not being the only way out.

[Rosewind]

MaximizedAction wrote...

Unschuld wrote...

Corik wrote...

Unschuld wrote...


The only ones I can think of at the moment are Vendetta not detecting you and why you're given the destroy option even at low EMS. Both I can chalk up to misinterpretation/misunderstanding.

You are not indoctrinated when talking to Vendetta. The indoctrination attempt is at the end of the game. The other thing was explained because Reapers had the upper hand in the battle with low EMS, so they don't really need to indoctrinate Shepard, just mess a little with his mind while they destroy the fleet.

I know, my interpretation is that   a.) Prothean VI's are not infallible, otherwise they wouldn't have been defeated by sleeper agents and   b.) The process Shepard could be under is subtle, not full-retard like Saren/TIM, but he is in the process of it. FR threshold regarding indoctrination for Shepard I believe would be at the RGB decision chamber.

Is that what we're calling it now? Fine with me!

I also assume that the threshold are the choices. But taking Kotor as an example, I also have the hope that this is not the absolute point of no return. Of course, the choices must have consequences, but nothing final. You know....maybe a shot in the head not being the only way out.

Agreed I was talking to a friend th other other day and he thinks they should kill Shepard either way and I think it is important in a game of choices that there is atleast some kind of  option  for him to survie not everyone plays their shepard to gives his life to save the world.

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

EpyonX3 wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

Not at all. I've acknowledged repeatedly that I could be wrong and
will admit to it both in text and video should IT be correct. I only
hope that if IT is true that they do it well and close any other plot
holes that IT might bring up.

And to answer your last question, I'm going with the first part.

What plot holes? I hear literalists talk about the plot holes of IT all the time but I've never heard what those supposed plot holes are. IT closes a ton of plot holes but I can't think of any that it creates.

1) The message at the end says Shepard ended the reaper threat, IT suggests the reapers are still alive at the end still harvesting.

2) The start of the hallucination.

3) Why the catalyst gives you a way out even though they've pretty much had full control over what Shepard sees throught the hallucination.

4) Vendetta does not recognize Shepard of being indoctrinated. If he's under the process of indoctrination, why doesn't shepard suffer the symptoms of it while awake? Shepard's indoctrination is different than others.

Those are some off the top of my head. I'm sure there are more.

Epyon I admire you for coming in here constantly, but really, did you even the read the thread because this stuff has been covered many times, especially the VI one.

But to cover the last two.

According to IT, they do not have full control over what Shepard sees as they dont have full control over him yet. That is why Shepard is piercing together the areas we see from other things he has seen. But even more importantly Destroy is representation of Sheaprds will, his mind. Indocrtination cannot simply suppress his mind in its entirety at least not at first, just as Saren could break free and as such Shepard still has a way out symbolized in destroying the Reapers, but the Catalyst (Reapers) is trying to guide him away from that.

As for the VI. The VI and Javik both tell you hwo Indoctrinated Sleeper agents caused a hell of a lot of damage during the Prothean Cycle. If their Indoctrination detection was foolproof then such a thing as sleeper agents woudl have been impossible. Also there is a difference between  beeing in the process of becoming indoctrinated and actually indoctrinated.

[EpyonX3]

Unschuld wrote...

Corik wrote...

Unschuld wrote...


The only ones I can think of at the moment are Vendetta not detecting you and why you're given the destroy option even at low EMS. Both I can chalk up to misinterpretation/misunderstanding.

You are not indoctrinated when talking to Vendetta. The indoctrination attempt is at the end of the game. The other thing was explained because Reapers had the upper hand in the battle with low EMS, so they don't really need to indoctrinate Shepard, just mess a little with his mind while they destroy the fleet.

I know, my interpretation is that   a.) Prothean VI's are not infallible, otherwise they wouldn't have been defeated by sleeper agents and   b.) The process Shepard could be under is subtle, not full-retard like Saren/TIM, but he is in the process of it. FR threshold regarding indoctrination for Shepard I believe would be at the RGB decision chamber.

To me the functionality of sensing indoctrinated subjects was created in reation to the sabotage. This is a more likely the reason why the sabotage happened in the first place while allowing the technology to exist. Also, we have the capability of detecting reapers as well.

When we scan a system and get reaper awareness, we know they're on their way. Additionally, while escaping from Mars, Joker alerts Shepard that reapers are inbound. Reaper signals are not invisible. They just weren't detectable by our own technology until ME3.

[EpyonX3]

Salient Archer wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

paxxton wrote...

EDI on Thessia? Why? What did she say?

It's not about what EDI says, but about what Vendetta does or doesn't say.

I'll bite, what's the additional or omitted dialogue?

Nothing. If EDI is based on reaper tech and EVA's body is of Cerberus origin capable of having similar tech as the implants in Kai Leng's and other Cerberus operatives, then Vendetta should freak out about EDI as well. I haven't taken EDI to Thessia yet so I don't know.

[EpyonX3]

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

Not at all. I've acknowledged repeatedly that I could be wrong and
will admit to it both in text and video should IT be correct. I only
hope that if IT is true that they do it well and close any other plot
holes that IT might bring up.

And to answer your last question, I'm going with the first part.

What plot holes? I hear literalists talk about the plot holes of IT all the time but I've never heard what those supposed plot holes are. IT closes a ton of plot holes but I can't think of any that it creates.

1) The message at the end says Shepard ended the reaper threat, IT suggests the reapers are still alive at the end still harvesting.

2) The start of the hallucination.

3) Why the catalyst gives you a way out even though they've pretty much had full control over what Shepard sees throught the hallucination.

4) Vendetta does not recognize Shepard of being indoctrinated. If he's under the process of indoctrination, why doesn't shepard suffer the symptoms of it while awake? Shepard's indoctrination is different than others.

Those are some off the top of my head. I'm sure there are more.

Epyon I admire you for coming in here constantly, but really, did you even the read the thread because this stuff has been covered many times, especially the VI one.

But to cover the last two.

According to IT, they do not have full control over what Shepard sees as they dont have full control over him yet. That is why Shepard is piercing together the areas we see from other things he has seen. But even more importantly Destroy is representation of Sheaprds will, his mind. Indocrtination cannot simply suppress his mind in its entirety at least not at first, just as Saren could break free and as such Shepard still has a way out symbolized in destroying the Reapers, but the Catalyst (Reapers) is trying to guide him away from that.

As for the VI. The VI and Javik both tell you hwo Indoctrinated Sleeper agents caused a hell of a lot of damage during the Prothean Cycle. If their Indoctrination detection was foolproof then such a thing as sleeper agents woudl have been impossible. Also there is a difference between  beeing in the process of becoming indoctrinated and actually indoctrinated.

I'll admit that I haven't seen it all but these four are some of the parts I ust don't agree with.

How do you explain then, that if you have low EMS and save the collector base, then you only have control as an option? Or why Synthesis only appears with high EMS? This seems rather pointless if the goal is to indoctrinate Shepard.

And as I said before, the VI's that can sense indoctrination were most likely developed after the sabotage.

[paxxton]

I replayed Thessia with EDI as a squadmate. The VI didn't say anything unusual.

[paxxton]

EpyonX3 wrote...

Salient Archer wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

paxxton wrote...

EDI on Thessia? Why? What did she say?

It's not about what EDI says, but about what Vendetta does or doesn't say.

I'll bite, what's the additional or omitted dialogue?

Nothing. If EDI is based on reaper tech and EVA's body is of Cerberus origin capable of having similar tech as the implants in Kai Leng's and other Cerberus operatives, then Vendetta should freak out about EDI as well. I haven't taken EDI to Thessia yet so I don't know.

Ah, more speculation.  The VI might not detect Reaper tech but indoctrinated organics. Besides, the Reapers had 50,000 years too upgrade and the VI might have outdated sensing protocols.

Modifié par paxxton, 12 juin 2012 - 02:44 .

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

EpyonX3 wrote...

I'll admit that I haven't seen it all but these four are some of the parts I ust don't agree with.

How do you explain then, that if you have low EMS and save the collector base, then you only have control as an option? Or why Synthesis only appears with high EMS? This seems rather pointless if the goal is to indoctrinate Shepard.

And as I said before, the VI's that can sense indoctrination were most likely developed after the sabotage.

At low EMS the Reapers dont really bother with Shepard as they ahve allready won (as noted by the agressive tone from Catalyst) and the scene is then formed by Shepards own beliefs. Saving the collector base shows Shepard is willing to use Reaper tech and by extension the Reapers to further the gaalxy, thus Control.

At high ems however the Reapers are increasingly aware that shepard is a threat and put that much more ffort into Indoctrinating him, thus resulting in Synthesis beeing an extra option to trcik Shepard with.

Does anything specifically say that? In fact the VI itself mentions how the Protheans were brought down from the inside by Indoctrinated sleeper agents. off course this information might have been coded into it, but that still leaves one other major problem with the idea that they were developed later.

If that was the case they must have been put into use, very, very late as Javik was litterally there at the end of the Cycle and guess what happened to his crew. Indoctrinated the bunch of them and this was as said near the end of the cycle. Guess Javiks crew was never near a VI <_<

Also dosent change the fact that while Kai Leng is fully indoctrinated (wether that is Cerberus or Reaper Indoctrination, dosent matter, same tech behind it) while Shepard is only in the process. Shepard still has complete control of himself only suffering the side effects of the process itself, he is not fully indoctrinated yet as..well that one should need no explanation.

[blooregard]

paxxton wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

Salient Archer wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

paxxton wrote...

EDI on Thessia? Why? What did she say?

It's not about what EDI says, but about what Vendetta does or doesn't say.

I'll bite, what's the additional or omitted dialogue?

Nothing. If EDI is based on reaper tech and EVA's body is of Cerberus origin capable of having similar tech as the implants in Kai Leng's and other Cerberus operatives, then Vendetta should freak out about EDI as well. I haven't taken EDI to Thessia yet so I don't know.

Ah, more speculation.  The VI might not detect Reaper tech but indoctrinated organics. Besides,, the Reapers had 50,000 years too upgrade and the VI might have outdated sensing protocols.

No Reaper tech is pretty much the only way they Prothean VIs can detect indoctrination. Remember EDI's Reaper parts are on the Normandy its unknown as to weather Dr. Eva's body has Reaper tech.

You also have to remember that any Reaper tech Dr. Eva was made out of probably came from Sovereign...The thing that implanted Saren and made him very detectible.

[EpyonX3]

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

I'll admit that I haven't seen it all but these four are some of the parts I ust don't agree with.

How do you explain then, that if you have low EMS and save the collector base, then you only have control as an option? Or why Synthesis only appears with high EMS? This seems rather pointless if the goal is to indoctrinate Shepard.

And as I said before, the VI's that can sense indoctrination were most likely developed after the sabotage.

At low EMS the Reapers dont really bother with Shepard as they ahve allready won (as noted by the agressive tone from Catalyst) and the scene is then formed by Shepards own beliefs. Saving the collector base shows Shepard is willing to use Reaper tech and by extension the Reapers to further the gaalxy, thus Control.

At high ems however the Reapers are increasingly aware that shepard is a threat and put that much more ffort into Indoctrinating him, thus resulting in Synthesis beeing an extra option to trcik Shepard with.

Does anything specifically say that? In fact the VI itself mentions how the Protheans were brought down from the inside by Indoctrinated sleeper agents. off course this information might have been coded into it, but that still leaves one other major problem with the idea that they were developed later.

If that was the case they must have been put into use, very, very late as Javik was litterally there at the end of the Cycle and guess what happened to his crew. Indoctrinated the bunch of them and this was as said near the end of the cycle. Guess Javiks crew was never near a VI <_<

Also dosent change the fact that while Kai Leng is fully indoctrinated (wether that is Cerberus or Reaper Indoctrination, dosent matter, same tech behind it) while Shepard is only in the process. Shepard still has complete control of himself only suffering the side effects of the process itself, he is not fully indoctrinated yet as..well that one should need no explanation.

Then Why bother attempting the whole hallucination? They must have known that they would win way before since a) the fleets get torn apart as you arrive to earth Hammer only lands about 20-30% of it's troops or less and c) More reapers were able to break off from sword to stop hammer, indicating that they had more than enough to stop sword.

Reapers are also very arrogant, they come into the battle over confident in their ability to win the war. Having low EMS would solidify their confidence.

There's little to no idication that the cycle ended when Javik went into stasis or that Javik's group were the protheans left in the galaxy. The VI on Ilos and vendetta belonged to different protheans in different sections of the galaxy. In fact Vendetta is capable of assisting with the crucible. Javik admits to have no knowledge of the crucible since they had no communications with the team that were working on it. This allows for the sabotage to be possible.

The VI on Ilos can sense indoctrination as well, hence, the pods were in tact as long as they could.

[Gernbuster]

Of course the Prothean Vis are only detecting fully indoctrinated people, it was made to only react to the strongly indoctrinated ones. Being near Reaper tech for only a second confrontates you with the indoctrination signals. During a Reaper war basicly everybody has close contact to Reapers, which means everybody could get potentially indoctrinated over time. Thats why you can't win a Reaper war in long term. The longer you have contact with the signal the stronger the indoctrination becomes.
Remember the signal comming from Sovereign on Eden Prime. The farmers described it as headache like cut into the brain.
And Shepard and his squad feels the signal as well, think it was just after Sovereign appears.
Compare it to TIM he got second hand Reaper contact and got behind the concept of indoctrination quit early. He was fighting against it for decades. Only in ME3 it seems he finally lost the fight. And guess what, Cerberus started to collect tons of Reapertech at the same time. Until the destruction of the collector base he was definitly fighting against the Reapers and even in ME3 there is still evidence that TIM is not completly lost to the Reapers. Don't forget the key mment where TIM shows he is indoctrinated is only a dream.

[Jusseb]

Earthborn_Shepard wrote...

I'm still pretty sure that Shep is the Catalyst.
The Catalyst being nothing more than someone able to unite the galaxy.

I believe this to, also because one of the definitions of 'Catalyst' is "1. A person or thing that causes a change"

Modifié par Jusseb, 12 juin 2012 - 02:45 .