55528 réponses à ce sujet

[FFZero]

HellishFiend wrote...

Riot86 wrote...

Just had a few spare minutes for a quick look around the apartment in London.

For some reason, the reflections on the wall in the whole room are really, really strange. They don't look anything like the surrounding, not even close.



For me, this reflection actually looks a bit like the Citadel Wards seen from a distance.



Am I seeing things or is there really a similarity?

Maybe the cubemaps used in the room are just some sort of "stock city cubemaps" used during the game. I actually didn't pay attention to the reflections in other missions much, to be honest.

But if this should be a unique cubemap used for this room alone, choosing something that doesn't resemble the apartment at all would be a strange decision from BioWare, wouldn't it?  Unless of course...

Sounds like it would be worth the effort to examine those cubemaps. Volunteers anywhere?

The cubemap that was used in the london apartment is re-used a lot in the game, it pops up in loads of files, even in some character files. Variations of that cubemap do come up a lot though in the London and end game files. Could be nothing but it does seem strange for it to be used there.

[HellishFiend]

EpyonX3 wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...


Why does the Shepard's mind sound like a reaper and gives off reaper red light?

How else would you suggest that "Anderson" warn him that it's a Reaper manifestation? Can you think of a better way?

Oh, so you think that the dreams are completely created by Shepard's mind and not directly staged by the Reapers?

No, Shepard's mind is the stage, while the "actors" (kid, shadows, whispers, etc) are the Reaper manifestations. If you put yourself in a more symbolic mindset (which dreams are, coincidentally), it makes more sense to look at it that way, in my opinion. 

*notbad.jpg*

Simplifies the whole thing greatly! But then who's writing the screenplay within that metaphor? The Reapers can't write to much of it or else it feels forced and this causes indoc. to fail, right?

Exactly. Which is why Shepard's resistant portion, "Anderson", is able to effect enough control to assist Shepard with staving off the process throughout the game using the red light, Reaper horns, and fire. 

Wait which dream are we talking about here?

 

All of them. And I would ask that you step into the context of IT if you want to get involved in this particular discussion, because it is essentially my interpretation of the dream symbolism within the context of IT, rather than a discussion on clues or evidence to justify IT.

Modifié par HellishFiend, 12 juin 2012 - 04:31 .

[paxxton]

Gernbuster wrote...

paxxton wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

Gernbuster wrote...

paxxton wrote...

Gernbuster wrote...

Yay one more of my theories which will get ignored. ^^

Most of the important renegade decissions makes it harder for you to collect EMS. Shep can get influenced by the Reapers from the very beginning of ME1, when Sovereign sends out its painful signal on Eden Prime. If you listen to the Reaper you help them. You kill the Rachni quenn, because the Reapers want you to kill a potential ally when they arrive(renegade). You kill Wrex because the Reapers want you to kill the legal strong heiress to the throne of Tuchanka (renegade) You choose Udina because the Reapers want you to destabilise the government. (renegade)
You choose to keep the collector base because the Reapers want Cerberus to use their tech. (renegade)
Sabotage genophage, kill mordin (renegade) Stop Legion to upload the Reaper code----->Geth die, quarians have losses(renegade)
etc etc

And finally think about the meaning of renegade for one second. A quit fitting synonym for it is betrayer isn't it?

No, Renegade is someone who does good by outdoing others' evil.

Of course I give you the point of the last part. I wrote, if english is your mother languages, but then I would like to know why every single transation I do on renegade ends up with betraying, rebel etc
I want to have such a word in German as well, which doesn't include something that negative -.-

But still the points above are still intersting

Even english synonyms on this webside give me the feeling to be right -.-

http://www.synonym.c...onyms/renegade/

One of the definitions of renegade is, "An individual who rejects lawful or conventional behavior."  That would seem to fit Renegade in Mass Effect, wouldn't you agree?

On Thessia a Renegade decision makes Shepard insist on finishing the Crucible, destroying the Reapers and not trusting TIM.

Interesting, can you describe it? I cant really remember that moment right know, but Sheps reactions to TIM in ME3 are fully scripted doesn't matter what you chose it ends up Shep is saying "Tim F**k off" and he answers the same way ^^ of course excluding the indoc end.

I confused those red/blue choices with the ones on the right side of the decision wheel. Anyway, today I chose a bottom-right answer and the conversation ended as soon as it started. I know that there is another dialogue about the dagger in humanity's back.

You're right. You can't support TIM in any way but Paragon choices don't make him seem hostile to you even if in the end he usually tries to kill you.

Modifié par paxxton, 12 juin 2012 - 04:35 .

[EpyonX3]

HellishFiend wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

Then Why bother attempting the whole hallucination? They must have known that they would win way before since a) the fleets get torn apart as you arrive to earth Hammer only lands about 20-30% of it's troops or less and c) More reapers were able to break off from sword to stop hammer, indicating that they had more than enough to stop sword.

Reapers are also very arrogant, they come into the battle over confident in their ability to win the war. Having low EMS would solidify their confidence.

Easy one sentence explanation: Because the Reapers are not so shallow as to base their desire to indoctrinate Shepard solely on how many ships show up at Earth.

So then the three options should be there regarldess of EMS and the Catalyst's tone should be constant.

Not at all. Maybe that's how you'd do it if you were the Reapers, but I dont think that is their MO. Reapers are arrogant and prideful. If they deem Shepard's indoctrination process as a disappointment either because he was too easy to indoctrinate (in which case he didnt live up to their expectations), or because he failed to unite enough of the galaxy, them being disdainful of him makes perfect sense. 

Going back to Vigil's description of the reaper invasion, he explains that they cut the protheans off from each other, making them easy to destroy.

Why the reapers are changing their long practiced strategy of divide and conquer just to maybe indoctrinate Shepard or not is what I have a problem with. The reapers don't want the galaxy united. They want them as spread out and thin as they can. The consolidation of reaper forces around the Citadel in the end was a massive display of fear by the reapers. So much that it made them vulnerable to heavy losses.

If Shepard fails to bring everyone together, then he in fact did them a favor. If he did bring them together, then he's being a pain in their butts because now they're losing capital ships, destroyers and drones, which are not cheap to replace.

[HellishFiend]

paxxton wrote...

I confused those red/blue choices with the ones on the right side of the decision wheel. Anyway, today I chose a bottom-right answer and the conversation ended as soon as it started. I know that there is another dialogue about the dagger in humanity's back.

While we're on that subject, I would like to chime in and say that I think it is highly appropriate that you only get the final Paragon/Renegade choices in the Anderson/TIM confrontation if you explore all the dialog with TIM throughout the game, because you get amazing lines like that "Dagger in the back" one. That ostensibly increases the amount of passion that you can demonstrate when rebuking TIM during that part of the hallucination. 

[EpyonX3]

HellishFiend wrote...

All of them. And I would ask that you step into the context of IT if you want to get involved in this particular discussion, because it is essentially my interpretation of the dream symbolism within the context of IT, rather than a discussion on clues or evidence to justify IT.

I undesrtand that. I just wanted to make sure what we were talking about becuase I don't remember Anderson being in any of the dreams Shepard had on the Normandy.

[HellishFiend]

EpyonX3 wrote...

Going back to Vigil's description of the reaper invasion, he explains that they cut the protheans off from each other, making them easy to destroy.

Why the reapers are changing their long practiced strategy of divide and conquer just to maybe indoctrinate Shepard or not is what I have a problem with. The reapers don't want the galaxy united. They want them as spread out and thin as they can. The consolidation of reaper forces around the Citadel in the end was a massive display of fear by the reapers. So much that it made them vulnerable to heavy losses.

If Shepard fails to bring everyone together, then he in fact did them a favor. If he did bring them together, then he's being a pain in their butts because now they're losing capital ships, destroyers and drones, which are not cheap to replace.

Again I think face value fails in spectacular fashion to provide a sufficient explanation on these points when compared to IT. You're using those points to try and poke holes in IT and say theyre why you have a problem with it, but I dont see any satisfactory face value explanations from you that dont involve the authoring of additional lore. 

I already explained the two possible reasons why I think Starbinger becomes disdainful of Shepard in the context of IT. Why is he disdainful in face value?

edit: altered wording

Modifié par HellishFiend, 12 juin 2012 - 04:38 .

[HellishFiend]

EpyonX3 wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

All of them. And I would ask that you step into the context of IT if you want to get involved in this particular discussion, because it is essentially my interpretation of the dream symbolism within the context of IT, rather than a discussion on clues or evidence to justify IT.

I undesrtand that. I just wanted to make sure what we were talking about becuase I don't remember Anderson being in any of the dreams Shepard had on the Normandy.

That's why I always put quote marks around "Anderson" when referring to him in that fashion. I said earlier in the discussion that I refer to Shepard's indoc-resistant portion of his mind as "Anderson" for short. 

[Gernbuster]

Lord Goose wrote...

Geth die, quarians have losses(renegade)
etc etc

Renegade choice to shout at quarians and scare the hell out of them, so they cease fire. Choice between geth and quarians is morally neutral.
Also, if you haven't recovered Bhatia's wife body (renegade), scientists will create new weapon, and Alliance EMS would be slightly higher. Letting the Council perish (renegade) will mean that more Alliance ships will survived). Killing Wrex and Mordin will give you acces to both Krogan and Salarian forces, killing heretic geth would mean that more quarins will live etc.

1. right now I mean the "important ones" every single one looked like if it would have a bad impact in long term, and guess what all of them give you lower EMS than the Paragon possibility at the end, if you done done less important once Paragon as well. Remember the cure data to the genophage and its impacts if you do so?

2. I am only reffering to the option in the bottom right courner to be Reaper indoc. The left  convincing options are really expressions of Sheps character and btw always have the same end effect.

3. If you played will and had the right (all Paragon) choices you have Quarians and Geth combined without any losses. Including exheretic. Saving alliance have overall slightly less EMS then saving Council + destabilazing trust in humanity. killing wrex killing mording gives u FAR less EMS then safing wrex, and the cure from ME2

4. Nothing is perfect and btw the quest with  Bhatia's wife is working in both directions, you can be renegade/paragon, while giving the body back or leave ot to the scientists.

[Riot86]

FFZero wrote...

The cubemap that was used in the london apartment is re-used a lot in the game, it pops up in loads of files, even in some character files. Variations of that cubemap do come up a lot though in the London and end game files. Could be nothing but it does seem strange for it to be used there.

Thanks

Is there any possibility to get an actuall image of the cubemap used in the London apartment to see what it shows? I still have no idea what those reflections are supposed to be?

[Gernbuster]

sry double post

Modifié par Gernbuster, 12 juin 2012 - 04:39 .

[EpyonX3]

HellishFiend wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...


I have actually but that was a while ago. Your war assets are related to the Crucible's development. With Low EMS that overall structure of the Crucible is complete but not all of its components are done in time before it's time to take it to earth.

With more assets and more scientists reasearching and constructing the crucible, more can be put into the crucible. When you go to TIM's Base, you pick up a peice of reaper that gets put into the crucible. This is either the heart or the brain. These two pieces have their own effects on the Crucible. The heart gives you destroy and the brain gives you control.

With low enough EMS, the assets you have are only given enough resources to complete one function based on what part you collected. With high EMS, the scientists had enough resources and thinking power to allow the other two to be implemented without the reaper part. Each component added to the crucible adds more influence to the catalyst and therefore changes his attitude towards you.

That's my explanation for it.

That was debunked, because someone did a playthrough with absolutely no Crucible assets, but high EMS due to N7 assets from multiplayer, and got all the choices. The choices are purely based on the collector base decision and EMS alone, and not the individual assets themselves. And it certainly has nothing to do with the construction of the Crucible. 

Given that, can you still come up with an explanation? I cant. 

I didn't mean Crucible Specific Assets. Your war assets aren't all just Ships and guns. They are scientists and engineers as well. It may not always be that descriptive but this is the case. The more people you have working on it, the more you get out of the crucible. I had no crucible assetes on my second playthrough and got Synthesis, but had crucible assets on my first with low EMS and got only destroy.

The key here is that you'll always go to TIM's base and you'll always pick up the reaper heart or brain. This always gets added to the crucible. There's no way around it.

[EpyonX3]

HellishFiend wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

All of them. And I would ask that you step into the context of IT if you want to get involved in this particular discussion, because it is essentially my interpretation of the dream symbolism within the context of IT, rather than a discussion on clues or evidence to justify IT.

I undesrtand that. I just wanted to make sure what we were talking about becuase I don't remember Anderson being in any of the dreams Shepard had on the Normandy.

That's why I always put quote marks around "Anderson" when referring to him in that fashion. I said earlier in the discussion that I refer to Shepard's indoc-resistant portion of his mind as "Anderson" for short. 

Ok gotcha.

[Gernbuster]

Dwailing wrote...

Gernbuster wrote...

paxxton wrote...

Gernbuster wrote...

Yay one more of my theories which will get ignored. ^^

Most of the important renegade decissions makes it harder for you to collect EMS. Shep can get influenced by the Reapers from the very beginning of ME1, when Sovereign sends out its painful signal on Eden Prime. If you listen to the Reaper you help them. You kill the Rachni quenn, because the Reapers want you to kill a potential ally when they arrive(renegade). You kill Wrex because the Reapers want you to kill the legal strong heiress to the throne of Tuchanka (renegade) You choose Udina because the Reapers want you to destabilise the government. (renegade)
You choose to keep the collector base because the Reapers want Cerberus to use their tech. (renegade)
Sabotage genophage, kill mordin (renegade) Stop Legion to upload the Reaper code----->Geth die, quarians have losses(renegade)
etc etc

And finally think about the meaning of renegade for one second. A quit fitting synonym for it is betrayer isn't it?

No, Renegade is someone who does good by outdoing others' evil.

Of course I give you the point of the last part. I wrote, if english is your mother languages, but then I would like to know why every single transation I do on renegade ends up with betraying, rebel etc
I want to have such a word in German as well, which doesn't include something that negative -.-

But still the points above are still intersting

Even english synonyms on this webside give me the feeling to be right -.-

http://www.synonym.c...onyms/renegade/

One of the definitions of renegade is, "An individual who rejects lawful or conventional behavior."  That would seem to fit Renegade in Mass Effect, wouldn't you agree?

^^ of course, but I guess we are all looking for deeper hidden meanings aren't we?

[HellishFiend]

EpyonX3 wrote...

I didn't mean Crucible Specific Assets. Your war assets aren't all just Ships and guns. They are scientists and engineers as well. It may not always be that descriptive but this is the case. The more people you have working on it, the more you get out of the crucible. I had no crucible assetes on my second playthrough and got Synthesis, but had crucible assets on my first with low EMS and got only destroy.

The key here is that you'll always go to TIM's base and you'll always pick up the reaper heart or brain. This always gets added to the crucible. There's no way around it.

Sorry Epyon but you seem to be doing far more damage to face value the deeper we go into this. It seems to me that your above response just serves to poke more holes in your own interpretation. 

So you can have more crucible assets and end up with only destroy, and have no crucible assets and achieve synthesis? How does that make sense for face value?

[paxxton]

HellishFiend wrote...

paxxton wrote...

I confused those red/blue choices with the ones on the right side of the decision wheel. Anyway, today I chose a bottom-right answer and the conversation ended as soon as it started. I know that there is another dialogue about the dagger in humanity's back.

While we're on that subject, I would like to chime in and say that I think it is highly appropriate that you only get the final Paragon/Renegade choices in the Anderson/TIM confrontation if you explore all the dialog with TIM throughout the game, because you get amazing lines like that "Dagger in the back" one. That ostensibly increases the amount of passion that you can demonstrate when rebuking TIM during that part of the hallucination. 

I didn't know about that. I always get all the options on the Citadel. At least during the first few decisions.

Modifié par paxxton, 12 juin 2012 - 04:43 .

[FFZero]

Riot86 wrote...

FFZero wrote...

The cubemap that was used in the london apartment is re-used a lot in the game, it pops up in loads of files, even in some character files. Variations of that cubemap do come up a lot though in the London and end game files. Could be nothing but it does seem strange for it to be used there.

Thanks

Is there any possibility to get an actuall image of the cubemap used in the London apartment to see what it shows? I still have no idea what those reflections are supposed to be?

It's certainly possible to get an image of the cubemap but you won't really find anything of interest. They don't show  anything in particular. I think they're just used as a way of faking reflections of light on shiny surfaces without using a specular map.

[HellishFiend]

paxxton wrote...

I didn't know about that. I always get all the options on the Citadel. At least during the first few decisions.

As far as I know, the very last Paragon/Renegade decision is based on both your Rep as well as whether or not you explored all of the available dialog with TIM. The preceding ones are based solely on Rep.

In my initial import playthrough, my Rep was through the roof, but I missed out on having the final Paragon/Renegade decision because I didnt fully explore the dialog options with TIM on Mars (I went straight for one of the options on the right hand side).  So, I was unable to get him to kill himself in the end. 

[HellishFiend]

FFZero wrote...

It's certainly possible to get an image of the cubemap but you won't really find anything of interest. They don't show  anything in particular. I think they're just used as a way of faking reflections of light on shiny surfaces without using a specular map.

But the point is that if it's a cubemap of the Wards on the Citadel, it could be an indication of surreality....

Modifié par HellishFiend, 12 juin 2012 - 04:47 .

[Dwailing]

HellishFiend wrote...

paxxton wrote...

I didn't know about that. I always get all the options on the Citadel. At least during the first few decisions.

As far as I know, the very last Paragon/Renegade decision is based on both your Rep as well as whether or not you explored all of the available dialog with TIM. The preceding ones are based solely on Rep.

In my initial import playthrough, my Rep was through the roof, but I missed out on having the final Paragon/Renegade decision because I didnt fully explore the dialog options with TIM on Mars (I went straight for one of the options on the right hand side).  So, I was unable to get him to kill himself in the end. 

Yeah, I can confirm that.  My father had the same issue on his playthrough.  He didn't do the dialogue on Mars, so he ended up being unable to perform the final charm/intimidate.

[Gernbuster]

HellishFiend wrote...

Gernbuster wrote...

Maybe I haven't got your point completly but I know some sorts of viruses which do exactly the same....

Yes in the first Comic you get everything about TIM and in the third novel you get everything about Paul Greyson. whispers in the mind, headache fight of willpwer against indoc. The whole package of symptoms.

Yes, but in Retribution, whispers and other indoc symptoms aside, the Reapers inevitably gain direct motor control over Grayson's body. That sort of control isnt possible without Reaper tech implants. Thats why I believe there are two distinct forms of indoctrination. They are so different that I'd almost think they deserve separate names. 

Ahh I understand, what you are meaning. But I think If you got the Reaper implants its just getting a step behind indoctrination. First you get indoctrinated in the common way just  much faster and stronger and finally the Reaper can control you completly.
Its just not that important to describe it as 2 different indocs, because as far as I know most of them, who were indoctrinated in the final stage, decided to get these implants.

[HellishFiend]

Dwailing wrote...

Yeah, I can confirm that.  My father had the same issue on his playthrough.  He didn't do the dialogue on Mars, so he ended up being unable to perform the final charm/intimidate.

I think a lot of people had that problem because many of us were under the impression that we could only pick one of those choices. In any case, it certainly scared the crap out of me in the ending because I thought I was going to wind up with a suboptimal outcome from not being able to pick from the Paragon/Renegade options....

[HellishFiend]

Gernbuster wrote...

Ahh I understand, what you are meaning. But I think If you got the Reaper implants its just getting a step behind indoctrination. First you get indoctrinated in the common way just  much faster and stronger and finally the Reaper can control you completly.
Its just not that important to describe it as 2 different indocs, because as far as I know most of them, who were indoctrinated in the final stage, decided to get these implants.

Agreed. 

[Gernbuster]

paxxton wrote...

Gernbuster wrote...

paxxton wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

Gernbuster wrote...

paxxton wrote...

Gernbuster wrote...

Yay one more of my theories which will get ignored. ^^

Most of the important renegade decissions makes it harder for you to collect EMS. Shep can get influenced by the Reapers from the very beginning of ME1, when Sovereign sends out its painful signal on Eden Prime. If you listen to the Reaper you help them. You kill the Rachni quenn, because the Reapers want you to kill a potential ally when they arrive(renegade). You kill Wrex because the Reapers want you to kill the legal strong heiress to the throne of Tuchanka (renegade) You choose Udina because the Reapers want you to destabilise the government. (renegade)
You choose to keep the collector base because the Reapers want Cerberus to use their tech. (renegade)
Sabotage genophage, kill mordin (renegade) Stop Legion to upload the Reaper code----->Geth die, quarians have losses(renegade)
etc etc

And finally think about the meaning of renegade for one second. A quit fitting synonym for it is betrayer isn't it?

No, Renegade is someone who does good by outdoing others' evil.

Of course I give you the point of the last part. I wrote, if english is your mother languages, but then I would like to know why every single transation I do on renegade ends up with betraying, rebel etc
I want to have such a word in German as well, which doesn't include something that negative -.-

But still the points above are still intersting

Even english synonyms on this webside give me the feeling to be right -.-

http://www.synonym.c...onyms/renegade/

One of the definitions of renegade is, "An individual who rejects lawful or conventional behavior."  That would seem to fit Renegade in Mass Effect, wouldn't you agree?

On Thessia a Renegade decision makes Shepard insist on finishing the Crucible, destroying the Reapers and not trusting TIM.

Interesting, can you describe it? I cant really remember that moment right know, but Sheps reactions to TIM in ME3 are fully scripted doesn't matter what you chose it ends up Shep is saying "Tim F**k off" and he answers the same way ^^ of course excluding the indoc end.

I confused those red/blue choices with the ones on the right side of the decision wheel. Anyway, today I chose a bottom-right answer and the conversation ended as soon as it started. I know that there is another dialogue about the dagger in humanity's back.

You're right. You can't support TIM in any way but Paragon choices don't make him seem hostile to you even if in the end he usually tries to kill you.

Maybe he isn't a hostile in first place  obviously he made a huge progress in his control research, thats why the Reapers atacked Horizon.

[paxxton]

HellishFiend wrote...

paxxton wrote...

I didn't know about that. I always get all the options on the Citadel. At least during the first few decisions.

As far as I know, the very last Paragon/Renegade decision is based on both your Rep as well as whether or not you explored all of the available dialog with TIM. The preceding ones are based solely on Rep.

In my initial import playthrough, my Rep was through the roof, but I missed out on having the final Paragon/Renegade decision because I didnt fully explore the dialog options with TIM on Mars (I went straight for one of the options on the right hand side).  So, I was unable to get him to kill himself in the end. 

DUN DUUUN DUUUUUUN!!!

I'm proud to say that on my VERY FIRST import playthrough I managed to get ALL available options in ALL the decisions on the Citadel.