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[Dwailing]

HellishFiend wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

So if I have fifty Vorcha Sentinels, then I somehow magically have more scientists?   Well, I guess space magic is still in full effect! :wizard::wizard:

Thank you for fielding the sarcastic version of my point. I was tempted to do it myself for a minute there. 

You're welcome!

[Dwailing]

MaximizedAction wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

FFZero wrote...

Actually I think I made a mistake, a lot of the cubemap's look similar.
The one used in the London apartment only apppears in one other place.
The Citadel. Will post a pic of the cubemap in a minute.

...

Yeah, it could be the Wards.  Although, I'm wondering if this one MIGHT be stretching.  I'm not going to deny that it's interesting, but it's nowhere near as clear as the tree reflections are.  However, even if I'm not sure if it's significant, I won't try to stop you guys from speculating.  I'm not that kind of guy. 

Edit: Just a heads up, the next quote of this MIGHT want to snip it slightly.  Remember, every time a quote pyramid continues to exist, Starbinger ruins another franchise. 

I would agree with you completely, if not for the bolded part.

Yeah, that IS a good reason to continue speculating.

[HellishFiend]

Dwailing wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...
I would agree with you completely, if not for the bolded part.

Yeah, that IS a good reason to continue speculating.

Well, I'm still at a loss for how this could connect to IT since that cubemap doesnt resemble the wards beyond a reasonable doubt.  What else could it signify?

Modifié par HellishFiend, 12 juin 2012 - 06:14 .

[byne]

HellishFiend wrote...


Ok, here, I thought of one last, one sentence way of laying this out. 

Explain how the presence of 50 Vorcha Sentinels can unlock all 3 options when you would otherwise get just one?

While I dont see how it would help with the Crucible, since promoting characters means they're still going to be fighting on the front lines, I feel I should point out that when you promote a vorcha sentinel, you're also promoting human, turian, krogan, and batarian sentinels alongside the vorcha.

So you dont just have 50 vorcha sentinels, you actually have 300 sentinels (counting both male and female human sentinels)

Modifié par byne, 12 juin 2012 - 06:17 .

[EpyonX3]

Dwailing wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

Dwailing wrote...



Wait, how the **** (fill that in with whatever you like) did you make the Reapers feel fear?  There are NO hints that they felt fear.  Yeah, they took the Citadel to Earth, but that doesn't mean they were afraid of the Crucible.

They took the Citadel and Consolidated power around it only after it was brought to their attention. We didn't know what it did and since we didn't know, they didn't know either.

So they locked up the Citadel and hudled around it because they were scared of the unknown weapon that can kill them.

If they weren't afraid of the crucible, they would have continued harvesting as planned and wouldn't have reacted the way they did.

Buuuut, assuming face value, they continued harvesting on Earth, and used the Citadel to collect the bodies, possibly for the creation of a Reaper.  Also, it could be that they were luring the organics into a trap.  They knew that the organics would HAVE to attack Earth, so they figured, "Why not use this oppurtunity to destroy the forces of the organics?"  Also, does it ever actually SAY that the Reapers have consolidated their forces around Earth?  I honestly can't remember, so if you can give me a video that says so, I'll do my best to alter my counter argument accordingly. 

Edit: Also, it's unknown if the Reapers can truly feel fear.

Why not continue? The Citadel is secured while the reapers on earth continue to reduce the population. Also, how many capital ships did you see on earth after you land?

The fleets to earth because the reapers to the Citadel there. I bet you that if the citadel were still there, London would not have happened. We would have fired, and that's that. Why Earth? well if they were planning on making a reaper out of humans and we have a weapon that can kill them, then they need to expidite that process.

These things are what show fear from the reapers. They snatch the Citadel, which seemed to be of no concern to them throughout the game until then and they send their capital ships to defend the Citadel, while normally they're on the surface taking out larger targets.

We also know that reapers are in fact part organic. They have emotions. They diplay them all the time, especially harbinger.

[Dwailing]

byne wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...


Ok, here, I thought of one last, one sentence way of laying this out. 

Explain how the presence of 50 Vorcha Sentinels can unlock all 3 options when you would otherwise get just one?

While I dont see how it would help with the Crucible, since promoting characters means they're still going to be fighting on the frontlines, I feel I should point out that when you promote a vorcha sentinel, you're also promoting human, turian, krogan, and batarian sentinels alongside the vorcha.

So you dont just have 50 vorcha sentinels, you actually have 300 sentinels (counting both male and female human sentinels)

Yeah, but that STILL doesn't explain how you magically get a bunch of extra scientists to work on the Crucible.  Those Sentinels may be smart, but it takes a special kind of smart to work on the Crucible.  Those guys would be going to the frontlines, not a lab.

[HellishFiend]

byne wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...


Ok, here, I thought of one last, one sentence way of laying this out. 

Explain how the presence of 50 Vorcha Sentinels can unlock all 3 options when you would otherwise get just one?

While I dont see how it would help with the Crucible, since promoting characters means they're still going to be fighting on the frontlines, I feel I should point out that when you promote a vorcha sentinel, you're also promoting human, turian, krogan, and batarian sentinels alongside the vorcha.

So you dont just have 50 vorcha sentinels, you actually have 300 sentinels (counting both male and female human sentinels)

I'll admit I'm being a tad hyperbolic with my "50 vorcha sentinels" example, but that is because my initial scenario layout apparently went over his head and made him think that restructuring it was a valid way of making a counterpoint. 

My point still stands. Multiplayer assets should NOT unlock crucible choices, yet they do. Face value has no explanation for that other than, like I always say, authoring additional fan-written lore. 

[byne]

Dwailing wrote...

byne wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...


Ok, here, I thought of one last, one sentence way of laying this out. 

Explain how the presence of 50 Vorcha Sentinels can unlock all 3 options when you would otherwise get just one?

While I dont see how it would help with the Crucible, since promoting characters means they're still going to be fighting on the frontlines, I feel I should point out that when you promote a vorcha sentinel, you're also promoting human, turian, krogan, and batarian sentinels alongside the vorcha.

So you dont just have 50 vorcha sentinels, you actually have 300 sentinels (counting both male and female human sentinels)

Yeah, but that STILL doesn't explain how you magically get a bunch of extra scientists to work on the Crucible.  Those Sentinels may be smart, but it takes a special kind of smart to work on the Crucible.  Those guys would be going to the frontlines, not a lab.

Thats literally what I said in my post, though.

[ezzidio]

I'm not sure if someone already stated this (Sorry if it was), but did anyone notice that the place where you select you choices resembles the dialogue wheel? Usually during conversation the upper right side is left to Paragon choices(not in bold blue) and the bottom right is left to Renegade choices(not in bold red) and a Neutral statement,

Also as I way of possibly Indoctrinating the Player, the Paragon interrupt choices have been on the Left side of the screen causing to press L1(or whatever button) on the left side of your controller. The Control ending is on the left possibly leading you to believe that it's the Paragon choice. The Renegade interrupt causes you to press R1, the right side of your controller. The Destroy option is on the Right side, which could possibly make believe that it's the Renegade option.

If you compare it to the Dialogue Wheel Destroy would be the Paragon option and Control would be the Renegade option. Synthesis would just be a means to an end like how the neutral statement of the wheel is usually just a means to further the conversation or end it.

[Dwailing]

byne wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

byne wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...


Ok, here, I thought of one last, one sentence way of laying this out. 

Explain how the presence of 50 Vorcha Sentinels can unlock all 3 options when you would otherwise get just one?

While I dont see how it would help with the Crucible, since promoting characters means they're still going to be fighting on the frontlines, I feel I should point out that when you promote a vorcha sentinel, you're also promoting human, turian, krogan, and batarian sentinels alongside the vorcha.

So you dont just have 50 vorcha sentinels, you actually have 300 sentinels (counting both male and female human sentinels)

Yeah, but that STILL doesn't explain how you magically get a bunch of extra scientists to work on the Crucible.  Those Sentinels may be smart, but it takes a special kind of smart to work on the Crucible.  Those guys would be going to the frontlines, not a lab.

Thats literally what I said in my post, though.

Ah, well, I guess I didn't read your passage closely enough.  However, restating the point can't hurt.

[HellishFiend]

ezzidio wrote...

I'm not sure if someone already stated this (Sorry if it was), but did anyone notice that the place where you select you choices resembles the dialogue wheel? Usually during conversation the upper right side is left to Paragon choices(not in bold blue) and the bottom right is left to Renegade choices(not in bold red) and a Neutral statement,

Also as I way of possibly Indoctrinating the Player, the Paragon interrupt choices have been on the Left side of the screen causing to press L1(or whatever button) on the left side of your controller. The Control ending is on the left possibly leading you to believe that it's the Paragon choice. The Renegade interrupt causes you to press R1, the right side of your controller. The Destroy option is on the Right side, which could possibly make believe that it's the Renegade option.

If you compare it to the Dialogue Wheel Destroy would be the Paragon option and Control would be the Renegade option. Synthesis would just be a means to an end like how the neutral statement of the wheel is usually just a means to further the conversation or end it.

Yep! It's been brought up, and it is what led me personally to believe that the primary point of the ending is "Player Indoctrination" rather than "Shepard's Indoctrination".  In an in-game context, it makes no sense to lay those choices out like a dialog wheel, complete with their respective colors. It only seems to make sense in a 4th-wall breaching context, or else you just have to shrug your shoulders and assume that the resemblance is a coincidence. 

[lex0r11]

Dwailing wrote...

[...]

Yeah, but that STILL doesn't explain how you magically get a bunch of extra scientists to work on the Crucible.  Those Sentinels may be smart, but it takes a special kind of smart to work on the Crucible.  Those guys would be going to the frontlines, not a lab.

Modifié par lex0r11, 12 juin 2012 - 06:23 .

[Dwailing]

lex0r11 wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

[...]

Yeah, but that STILL doesn't explain how you magically get a bunch of extra scientists to work on the Crucible.  Those Sentinels may be smart, but it takes a special kind of smart to work on the Crucible.  Those guys would be going to the frontlines, not a lab.

Lex0r!  You're back!  The thread just took two or three more levels in awesome.

[byne]

HellishFiend wrote...

byne wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...


Ok, here, I thought of one last, one sentence way of laying this out. 

Explain how the presence of 50 Vorcha Sentinels can unlock all 3 options when you would otherwise get just one?

While I dont see how it would help with the Crucible, since promoting characters means they're still going to be fighting on the frontlines, I feel I should point out that when you promote a vorcha sentinel, you're also promoting human, turian, krogan, and batarian sentinels alongside the vorcha.

So you dont just have 50 vorcha sentinels, you actually have 300 sentinels (counting both male and female human sentinels)

I'll admit I'm being a tad hyperbolic with my "50 vorcha sentinels" example, but that is because my initial scenario layout apparently went over his head and made him think that restructuring it was a valid way of making a counterpoint. 

My point still stands. Multiplayer assets should NOT unlock crucible choices, yet they do. Face value has no explanation for that other than, like I always say, authoring additional fan-written lore. 

The value of war assets makes no sense at all anyways. Theres literally no way to explain why promoting one class gives you 75 points, while the entire Alliance Third Fleet gives a base 65 points if you saved the Council in ME1.

[HellishFiend]

lex0r11 wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

[...]

Yeah, but that STILL doesn't explain how you magically get a bunch of extra scientists to work on the Crucible.  Those Sentinels may be smart, but it takes a special kind of smart to work on the Crucible.  Those guys would be going to the frontlines, not a lab.

*snip*

That picture just led me to imagine what would happen if a Vorcha Sentinel went to try to work on the Crucible. That likely would produce such an amusing result that it would end up lowering your EMS, now that I think about it. 

[EpyonX3]

HellishFiend wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...


Let me try to understand what you're saying. You're saying that having the same assets as the one option endings plus one or more random assets give you all three options? If so I don't think that's right at all since you can get destroy and control options only.

This is once again my point. The more assets you have, the more unnammed scientists you'll have on the crucible, the more chances of adding one of the RGB choices at the end.

And no I'm not trolling anyone here. I really want at least get to some middle ground here.

Ok, here, I thought of one last, one sentence way of laying this out. 

Explain how the presence of 50 Vorcha Sentinels can unlock all 3 options when you would otherwise get just one?

If you still dont get it, we just need to drop this subject entirely because your rebuttals and counterpoints are based on a total misunderstanding of the point I'm trying to make. 

I think what you're getting at. Here's the thing. just because your asstes aren't all scientists, doesn't mean they aren't involved with building the crucible.

Hackett says they're throwing anyone who can hold a hammer at it. That includes soldiers. The overal project becomes smoother with more people building it.

[HellishFiend]

byne wrote...

The value of war assets makes no sense at all anyways. Theres literally no way to explain why promoting one class gives you 75 points, while the entire Alliance Third Fleet gives a base 65 points if you saved the Council in ME1.

Agreed. Either Bioware couldnt figure out how to make the war assets/EMS system make logical face-value sense (which is still a possibility), or it's not truly a representation of your effectiveness against the Reapers or the viability of the Crucible. 

[HellishFiend]

EpyonX3 wrote...

I think what you're getting at. Here's the thing. just because your asstes aren't all scientists, doesn't mean they aren't involved with building the crucible.

Hackett says they're throwing anyone who can hold a hammer at it. That includes soldiers. The overal project becomes smoother with more people building it.

Well then I guess we've reached enough of an understanding to where we can at least agree to disagree. 

[byne]

HellishFiend wrote...

lex0r11 wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

[...]

Yeah, but that STILL doesn't explain how you magically get a bunch of extra scientists to work on the Crucible.  Those Sentinels may be smart, but it takes a special kind of smart to work on the Crucible.  Those guys would be going to the frontlines, not a lab.

*snip*

That picture just led me to imagine what would happen if a Vorcha Sentinel went to try to work on the Crucible. That likely would produce such an amusing result that it would end up lowering your EMS, now that I think about it. 

We shut down machines! Break fans! Everyone choke and die!

[Dwailing]

EpyonX3 wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...


Let me try to understand what you're saying. You're saying that having the same assets as the one option endings plus one or more random assets give you all three options? If so I don't think that's right at all since you can get destroy and control options only.

This is once again my point. The more assets you have, the more unnammed scientists you'll have on the crucible, the more chances of adding one of the RGB choices at the end.

And no I'm not trolling anyone here. I really want at least get to some middle ground here.

Ok, here, I thought of one last, one sentence way of laying this out. 

Explain how the presence of 50 Vorcha Sentinels can unlock all 3 options when you would otherwise get just one?

If you still dont get it, we just need to drop this subject entirely because your rebuttals and counterpoints are based on a total misunderstanding of the point I'm trying to make. 

I think what you're getting at. Here's the thing. just because your asstes aren't all scientists, doesn't mean they aren't involved with building the crucible.

Hackett says they're throwing anyone who can hold a hammer at it. That includes soldiers. The overal project becomes smoother with more people building it.

Uh, I'm guessing that that line wasn't meant to be taken seriously.  Besides, those soldiers are needed elsewhere.  They're not going to be working on the Crucible, they'll be on the frontlines, fighting the Reapers.

[lex0r11]

Dwailing wrote...

[...]

Lex0r!  You're back!  The thread just took two or three more levels in awesome.

Awesomeness level up!

Choose your new skill points for the thread.

[EpyonX3]

HellishFiend wrote...

byne wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...


Ok, here, I thought of one last, one sentence way of laying this out. 

Explain how the presence of 50 Vorcha Sentinels can unlock all 3 options when you would otherwise get just one?

While I dont see how it would help with the Crucible, since promoting characters means they're still going to be fighting on the frontlines, I feel I should point out that when you promote a vorcha sentinel, you're also promoting human, turian, krogan, and batarian sentinels alongside the vorcha.

So you dont just have 50 vorcha sentinels, you actually have 300 sentinels (counting both male and female human sentinels)

I'll admit I'm being a tad hyperbolic with my "50 vorcha sentinels" example, but that is because my initial scenario layout apparently went over his head and made him think that restructuring it was a valid way of making a counterpoint. 

My point still stands. Multiplayer assets should NOT unlock crucible choices, yet they do. Face value has no explanation for that other than, like I always say, authoring additional fan-written lore. 

Why didn't you just say that? That would have avoided a lot of confusion.

I actually agree with you on that it shouldn't. Multiplayer effecting EMS is a questionable design choice. Sure it makes the player actually play the multiplayer but what if the player is only interested in the singleplayer?

[HellishFiend]

Dwailing wrote...

Uh, I'm guessing that that line wasn't meant to be taken seriously.  Besides, those soldiers are needed elsewhere.  They're not going to be working on the Crucible, they'll be on the frontlines, fighting the Reapers.

Yes, but Epyon is trying valiantly hard to apply face value context to it. It may not make sense to us, but at least now he understands the point I was trying to make. 

[EpyonX3]

HellishFiend wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

I think what you're getting at. Here's the thing. just because your asstes aren't all scientists, doesn't mean they aren't involved with building the crucible.

Hackett says they're throwing anyone who can hold a hammer at it. That includes soldiers. The overal project becomes smoother with more people building it.

Well then I guess we've reached enough of an understanding to where we can at least agree to disagree. 

See my post above.

[Dwailing]

lex0r11 wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

[...]

Lex0r!  You're back!  The thread just took two or three more levels in awesome.

Awesomeness level up!

Choose your new skill points for the thread.

I think we'll split those points between intelligence and charisma.  Combine the ability to come up with new ideas with the ability to convince people that we aren't crazy.  Sounds like a good idea, right?