55528 réponses à ce sujet

[HellishFiend]

EpyonX3 wrote...

Why didn't you just say that? That would have avoided a lot of confusion.

I actually agree with you on that it shouldn't. Multiplayer effecting EMS is a questionable design choice. Sure it makes the player actually play the multiplayer but what if the player is only interested in the singleplayer?

Because I enjoy laying out scenarios and using examples instead of just stating a belief. The point is made stronger by doing so. 

I will say though that I believe the "Galactic Readiness" effect does make sense even in face-value context, but the war assets/EMS/TIMS portion does not. 

[EpyonX3]

Dwailing wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...


Let me try to understand what you're saying. You're saying that having the same assets as the one option endings plus one or more random assets give you all three options? If so I don't think that's right at all since you can get destroy and control options only.

This is once again my point. The more assets you have, the more unnammed scientists you'll have on the crucible, the more chances of adding one of the RGB choices at the end.

And no I'm not trolling anyone here. I really want at least get to some middle ground here.

Ok, here, I thought of one last, one sentence way of laying this out. 

Explain how the presence of 50 Vorcha Sentinels can unlock all 3 options when you would otherwise get just one?

If you still dont get it, we just need to drop this subject entirely because your rebuttals and counterpoints are based on a total misunderstanding of the point I'm trying to make. 

I think what you're getting at. Here's the thing. just because your asstes aren't all scientists, doesn't mean they aren't involved with building the crucible.

Hackett says they're throwing anyone who can hold a hammer at it. That includes soldiers. The overal project becomes smoother with more people building it.

Uh, I'm guessing that that line wasn't meant to be taken seriously.  Besides, those soldiers are needed elsewhere.  They're not going to be working on the Crucible, they'll be on the frontlines, fighting the Reapers.

They're also needed to escort scientists, materials and the overall security of the project. This also adds to the smoothness of the project and allows for more to get done in the given time frame.

[byne]

EpyonX3 wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

byne wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...


Ok, here, I thought of one last, one sentence way of laying this out. 

Explain how the presence of 50 Vorcha Sentinels can unlock all 3 options when you would otherwise get just one?

While I dont see how it would help with the Crucible, since promoting characters means they're still going to be fighting on the frontlines, I feel I should point out that when you promote a vorcha sentinel, you're also promoting human, turian, krogan, and batarian sentinels alongside the vorcha.

So you dont just have 50 vorcha sentinels, you actually have 300 sentinels (counting both male and female human sentinels)

I'll admit I'm being a tad hyperbolic with my "50 vorcha sentinels" example, but that is because my initial scenario layout apparently went over his head and made him think that restructuring it was a valid way of making a counterpoint. 

My point still stands. Multiplayer assets should NOT unlock crucible choices, yet they do. Face value has no explanation for that other than, like I always say, authoring additional fan-written lore. 

Why didn't you just say that? That would have avoided a lot of confusion.

I actually agree with you on that it shouldn't. Multiplayer effecting EMS is a questionable design choice. Sure it makes the player actually play the multiplayer but what if the player is only interested in the singleplayer?

The fact that they force you to play multiplayer (and thus have a good internet connection) to get the breath ending makes me wonder why people think they wouldnt release a true ending as DLC, IT or not, just because some people wouldnt be able to download it.

Players having bad internet connections didnt stop them from forcing you to play MP.

[HellishFiend]

EpyonX3 wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

I think what you're getting at. Here's the thing. just because your asstes aren't all scientists, doesn't mean they aren't involved with building the crucible.

Hackett says they're throwing anyone who can hold a hammer at it. That includes soldiers. The overal project becomes smoother with more people building it.

Well then I guess we've reached enough of an understanding to where we can at least agree to disagree. 

See my post above.

No, we still differ. You think it is a questionable design choice that can be overlooked by employing fancanon. I think it is strong evidence that the available Crucible choices are not based on the physical value of your war assets or the construction quality of the Crucible itself.

So, agree to disagree. 

Modifié par HellishFiend, 12 juin 2012 - 06:36 .

[Dwailing]

EpyonX3 wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...


Let me try to understand what you're saying. You're saying that having the same assets as the one option endings plus one or more random assets give you all three options? If so I don't think that's right at all since you can get destroy and control options only.

This is once again my point. The more assets you have, the more unnammed scientists you'll have on the crucible, the more chances of adding one of the RGB choices at the end.

And no I'm not trolling anyone here. I really want at least get to some middle ground here.

Ok, here, I thought of one last, one sentence way of laying this out. 

Explain how the presence of 50 Vorcha Sentinels can unlock all 3 options when you would otherwise get just one?

If you still dont get it, we just need to drop this subject entirely because your rebuttals and counterpoints are based on a total misunderstanding of the point I'm trying to make. 

I think what you're getting at. Here's the thing. just because your asstes aren't all scientists, doesn't mean they aren't involved with building the crucible.

Hackett says they're throwing anyone who can hold a hammer at it. That includes soldiers. The overal project becomes smoother with more people building it.

Uh, I'm guessing that that line wasn't meant to be taken seriously.  Besides, those soldiers are needed elsewhere.  They're not going to be working on the Crucible, they'll be on the frontlines, fighting the Reapers.

They're also needed to escort scientists, materials and the overall security of the project. This also adds to the smoothness of the project and allows for more to get done in the given time frame.

I think we'll just agree to disagree.  How about we end this and save each other a lot of frustration over each other's opinions.

Modifié par Dwailing, 12 juin 2012 - 06:35 .

[EpyonX3]

HellishFiend wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

Why didn't you just say that? That would have avoided a lot of confusion.

I actually agree with you on that it shouldn't. Multiplayer effecting EMS is a questionable design choice. Sure it makes the player actually play the multiplayer but what if the player is only interested in the singleplayer?

Because I enjoy laying out scenarios and using examples instead of just stating a belief. The point is made stronger by doing so. 

I will say though that I believe the "Galactic Readiness" effect does make sense even in face-value context, but the war assets/EMS/TIMS portion does not. 

Well I guess that's a issue on my end as I'm used to debating with a belief being stated and then the layout. Give me a layout first and I'll be a bit lost wondering what the point of it is.

And we agree on something else so that makes six.

[Dwailing]

byne wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

byne wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...


Ok, here, I thought of one last, one sentence way of laying this out. 

Explain how the presence of 50 Vorcha Sentinels can unlock all 3 options when you would otherwise get just one?

While I dont see how it would help with the Crucible, since promoting characters means they're still going to be fighting on the frontlines, I feel I should point out that when you promote a vorcha sentinel, you're also promoting human, turian, krogan, and batarian sentinels alongside the vorcha.

So you dont just have 50 vorcha sentinels, you actually have 300 sentinels (counting both male and female human sentinels)

I'll admit I'm being a tad hyperbolic with my "50 vorcha sentinels" example, but that is because my initial scenario layout apparently went over his head and made him think that restructuring it was a valid way of making a counterpoint. 

My point still stands. Multiplayer assets should NOT unlock crucible choices, yet they do. Face value has no explanation for that other than, like I always say, authoring additional fan-written lore. 

Why didn't you just say that? That would have avoided a lot of confusion.

I actually agree with you on that it shouldn't. Multiplayer effecting EMS is a questionable design choice. Sure it makes the player actually play the multiplayer but what if the player is only interested in the singleplayer?

The fact that they force you to play multiplayer (and thus have a good internet connection) to get the breath ending makes me wonder why people think they wouldnt release a true ending as DLC, IT or not, just because some people wouldnt be able to download it.

Players having bad internet connections didnt stop them from forcing you to play MP.

Well, that ties back into my idea that the Breath Scene happens no matter what, it's just that you only SEE it happen if you have a high enough EMS.

[TSA_383]

Big Bad wrote...

it looks kind of like protein or dna bands that you get after doing gel electrophoresis and viewing the gel under UV light. /bio nerd

I love how we have nerds on a huge variety of topics in this thread

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

Thinking again on the entire
ending sequence being a puzzle. I was trying to find something about
Zorya (the planet that looks a little too similar to the jungle/paradise
planet), played through it recently for Zaeed's loyalty mission in 2.
Nothing really complex stood out, cept for a piece of machinery with
M384, or 385 I forget which, written on it  but that pops up several
times on side missions and even in ME3 randomly.

The only other
significant thing that I could draw some tangible line out of was what
Zaeed said concerning getting shot in the head, "A stubborn enough
person can survive just about anything."

The mythology's interesting on this one, particularly with regards to the end scene:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zorya
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buyan

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

For anyone who missed it, someone posted a very interesting facts document on infrasound yesterday:

http://www.lowertheb.../infrasound.htm

Just up again and going through the threat when i saw this. Interesting read and especially one part caught my eye:

 "1 - 10 Cycles Per Second (Hz) - "Lethal infrasonic pitch
lies in the 7 cycle range. Small amplitude increases affect human behavior
in this range. Intellectual activity is first inhibited, blocked, and then
destroyed. As the amplitude is increased, several disconcerting responses
have been noted. These responses begin a complete neurological interference.
The action of the medulla is physiologically blocked, its autonomic functions
cease." (source; the Sonic Weapon of Vladimir Gavreau, by Gerry Vassilatos)"

The highlighted part is interesting when compared to the codex on Indoctrination.

"Long-term physical effects of the manipulation are unsustainable. Higher
mental functioning decays, ultimately leaving the victim a gibbering
animal. Rapid indoctrination is possible, but causes this decay in days
or weeks. Slow, patient indoctrination allows the thrall to last for
months or years."

Just wanted to point that out again since it is an interesting link.

Interesting, but note that the amplitudes required for that sort of thing are HUGE
That said, the bit about infrasound being used by the ****s to make crowds angry... Will have to check that out and find out if it's true...

Arian Dynas wrote...

Ytook wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

Interesting.
We ALL know about Walters's degree in psychology, so he would know
this stuff. I just thought this was an interesting idea. Don't you
have a minor in psychology?

Off topic certainly but just
out of interest, as a Brit (who clearly knows nothing about the Anerican
education system) what is a minor (in this context obviously)?

University thing (we call it college)

when
going for your degree (which ranges from Bachelor - 2 years, Associate -
4 years, Master's - 8 years i think and Doctorate - 8+ years) you
decide on a field to major in, like Anthropology or psychology or
education or nursing, ect. Sometimes you can dual major and major in two
fields, like I have a dual Anthropology/Philosophy major. You can also
elect to minor in something, which basically means you have made a study
of it, but it not your focus even though you have some qualifications.

Masters takes 8 years in the US? 
I thought my five year masters degree was bad
Oh well, guess I can apply for a work visa when I graduate age 22

EpyonX3 wrote...

prettz wrote...

paxxton wrote...

I envy those who got the hoodie in the CE.

I don't have CE but have the hoodie[smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/whistling.png[/smilie]  (only possible on PC version )

I have PC version! How do I get this hoodie?

How have we managed not to get multiplayer from this thread going yet? 

[EpyonX3]

HellishFiend wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

I think what you're getting at. Here's the thing. just because your asstes aren't all scientists, doesn't mean they aren't involved with building the crucible.

Hackett says they're throwing anyone who can hold a hammer at it. That includes soldiers. The overal project becomes smoother with more people building it.

Well then I guess we've reached enough of an understanding to where we can at least agree to disagree. 

See my post above.

No, we still differ. You think it is a questionable design choice that can be overlooked by employing fancanon. I think it is strong evidence that the available Crucible choices are not based on the physical value of your war assets or the construction quality Crucible itself.

So, agree to disagree. 

Ok that's fine.

[Big Bad]

I honestly don't think the EMS and war assets system is intended to be analyzed either literally (for non-IT people) or metaphorically (for IT people). I think it is just a game mechanic they decided to use and only intended it to be loosely connected to the plot.

[EpyonX3]

Dwailing wrote...


I think we'll just agree to disagree.  How about we end this and save each other a lot of frustration over each other's opinions.

Sure. I'm ok with moving on.

[HellishFiend]

Dwailing wrote...

Well, that ties back into my idea that the Breath Scene happens no matter what, it's just that you only SEE it happen if you have a high enough EMS.

I concur with that belief. I think the breath scene itself is not an easter egg, but whether you actually see it or not is an easter egg. 

[Dwailing]

HellishFiend wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

Well, that ties back into my idea that the Breath Scene happens no matter what, it's just that you only SEE it happen if you have a high enough EMS.

I concur with that belief. I think the breath scene itself is not an easter egg, but whether you actually see it or not is an easter egg. 

That's a good way to describe it.  I always compare it to the Legendary Planet from Halo 3.  You only SEE it if you finish the game on Legendary, but the Chief arriving there happens no matter what.

Modifié par Dwailing, 12 juin 2012 - 06:39 .

[HellishFiend]

Big Bad wrote...

I honestly don't think the EMS and war assets system is intended to be analyzed either literally (for non-IT people) or metaphorically (for IT people). I think it is just a game mechanic they decided to use and only intended it to be loosely connected to the plot.

I did admit that possibility exists just a few posts ago, but given the fact that IT states that EMS directly affects your Crucible choices, which in turn directly affects Starbinger's attitude as well as the Indoctrination result, I'm steered towards believing that it's an intentional design, the point of which is not made clear to the player. 

[HellishFiend]

Dwailing wrote...

That's a good way to describe it.  I always compare it to the Legendary Planet from Halo 3.  You only SEE it if you finish the game on Legendary, but the Chief arriving there happens no matter what.

[MaximizedAction]

HellishFiend wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

Well, that ties back into my idea that the Breath Scene happens no matter what, it's just that you only SEE it happen if you have a high enough EMS.

I concur with that belief. I think the breath scene itself is not an easter egg, but whether you actually see it or not is an easter egg. 

Well, let's assume there would be no breath scene. How long until IT would've have kicked in or was easier to accept? I think it would be a bit harder to accept.

I see the breath scene as the final hint for the player that something is not right, "look closer!". If you had no doubts at Anderson's stainless clothes then the breath scene should do it for ya.
And if that doesn't do it for ya...well then you probably chose another ending, anyway.

Modifié par MaximizedAction, 12 juin 2012 - 06:45 .

[HellishFiend]

MaximizedAction wrote...


Well, let's assume there would be no breath scene. How long until IT would've have kicked in or was easier to accept? I think a lot harder.

I see the breath scene as the final hint for the player that something is not right, "look closer!". If you had no doubts at Anderson's stainless clothes then the breath scene should do it for ya.
And if that doesn't do it for ya...well then you probably chose another ending, anyway.

I'd post the "Exactly" image again for this one, but I dont want to overdo it. :happy:

[MaximizedAction]

HellishFiend wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...


Well, let's assume there would be no breath scene. How long until IT would've have kicked in or was easier to accept? I think a lot harder.

I see the breath scene as the final hint for the player that something is not right, "look closer!". If you had no doubts at Anderson's stainless clothes then the breath scene should do it for ya.
And if that doesn't do it for ya...well then you probably chose another ending, anyway.

I'd post the "Exactly" image again for this one, but I dont want to overdo it. :happy:

Exactly.

[Big Bad]

HellishFiend wrote...

Big Bad wrote...

I honestly don't think the EMS and war assets system is intended to be analyzed either literally (for non-IT people) or metaphorically (for IT people). I think it is just a game mechanic they decided to use and only intended it to be loosely connected to the plot.

I did admit that possibility exists just a few posts ago, but given the fact that IT states that EMS directly affects your Crucible choices, which in turn directly affects Starbinger's attitude as well as the Indoctrination result, I'm steered towards believing that it's an intentional design, the point of which is not made clear to the player. 

I think your idea is very cool, and I hope it is true. I am just not convinced yet. The whole system just feels very "video game-ish" to me so I am not going to try to draw any plot-related implications from it. At least, not yet. But I definitely like the idea.

[Dwailing]

Soooo, did anyone else here see the update on the Black Mesa mod's profile page on Moddb?

Modifié par Dwailing, 12 juin 2012 - 06:50 .

[HellishFiend]

Big Bad wrote...

I think your idea is very cool, and I hope it is true. I am just not convinced yet. The whole system just feels very "video game-ish" to me so I am not going to try to draw any plot-related implications from it. At least, not yet. But I definitely like the idea.

I hope it's true too, because I also like the idea. I'm leaning that way, because I think the fact that it feels "video game-ish" is just for plausible deniability. Certainly makes sense, since almost everything else regarding IT has at least some small element of plausible deniability built into it.  

[EpyonX3]

Dwailing wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

Well, that ties back into my idea that the Breath Scene happens no matter what, it's just that you only SEE it happen if you have a high enough EMS.

I concur with that belief. I think the breath scene itself is not an easter egg, but whether you actually see it or not is an easter egg. 

That's a good way to describe it.  I always compare it to the Legendary Planet from Halo 3.  You only SEE it if you finish the game on Legendary, but the Chief arriving there happens no matter what.

Ok here's what I thnk. If earth is destroyed and people are vaporized, shepard would be vaporized as well since he was standing where the red wave originated from.

And yes I know that there are worse implications if Shepard is left alive with High EMS, but this at least makes sense as to why Sheperd dies in all of them except one.

Since the high EMS red wave specifically kills reapers, then it's not impossible that Shepard lives after it's activated based only on this. The whole Shepard breathing in space with no gravity reentering earth things is something for another discussion.

[MaximizedAction]

HellishFiend wrote...

Big Bad wrote...

I think your idea is very cool, and I hope it is true. I am just not convinced yet. The whole system just feels very "video game-ish" to me so I am not going to try to draw any plot-related implications from it. At least, not yet. But I definitely like the idea.

I hope it's true too, because I also like the idea. I'm leaning that way, because I think the fact that it feels "video game-ish" is just for plausible deniability. Certainly makes sense, since almost everything else regarding IT has at least some small element of plausible deniability built into it.  

It would make no sense for someone to stay on this forum and 'discuss' how everything can be basically dismissed with "Hurrdurr, it's just a videogame". I know that the reality is different, but this thread is different.

[HellishFiend]

MaximizedAction wrote...
 someone to stay on this forum and 'discuss' how everything can be basically dismissed with "Hurrdurr, it's just a videogame".

Ok, I'm done with the images. I dont know what came over me....

[Dwailing]

BTW, anyone know when the updates on Operation Status comes in? 'Cause I want to know if the multiplayer challenge was completed (I want another N7 weapon.).