55528 réponses à ce sujet

[GloryToChaos]

estebanus wrote...

Vox Draco wrote...

GloryToChaos wrote...

Have you ever heard of the church of Scientology? I have a feeling you'd like it.

The funny thing about this whole "cultist"-insults is: Literalst often claim the following arguments: IT is false, because it is stupid, and IT-lers are delusional and it is never ever anywhere explicitly said in the game Shepard is fighting indoctrination...then IT-lers come up with endless posts of evidence based on the game, the lore, the expanded universe and so much more that maybe not proofs IT is/will be true, but that it is very likely possible!

Now just exchange "indoctrination theory" with "evolutionary theory" and you might see who really acts like the quasi-religious ones blind for any other interpretation than what they see as the only truth...  

BUUURRRNNNEEDD!

So let's talk about defense mechanisms, in particular, denial. We all agree, the ending was terrible, nonsensical and inconclusive. What it came down to was most people accepting that the ending was tragically awful and battering BIOWARE for a remake or a fix, etc, etc, etc. And then of course there are the people that went off the deep end, compiled an obsessive amount of details in order to create a fantastical ending to replace to the real one because they can't accept their own disappointment at the ending of the franchise.

[paxxton]

byne wrote...

GloryToChaos, can you please come troll later? With today's WoW server reset I now have both Thunderfury bindings and am busy farming for Arcane Crystals, and thusly I dont have time for trolls at this present time.

Are you a pro gamer?

[byne]

GloryToChaos wrote...


So let's talk about defense mechanisms, in particular, denial. We all agree, the ending was terrible, nonsensical and inconclusive. What it came down to was most people accepting that the ending was tragically awful and battering BIOWARE for a remake or a fix, etc, etc, etc. And then of course there are the people that went off the deep end, compiled an obsessive amount of details in order to create a fantastical ending to replace to the real one because they can't accept their own disappointment at the ending of the franchise.

"How dare you guys interpret the ending any way other than how I interpret it!"

Please either discuss the actual theory or leave. We're aware literalists already think we're just delusional and cant accept reality. This isnt the case, but is isnt our job to convince you otherwise.

[estebanus]

paxxton wrote...

GloryToChaos wrote...

paxxton wrote...

GloryToChaos wrote...

Have you ever heard of the church of Scientology? I have a feeling you'd like it.

Why do you think so?

Something about a crazy cult that believes all kinds of fantastical nonsense about space aliens.

Anyways, I did ask a serious question, if indoctrination is indeed the answer, how does it explain the crash-landing scenes and the thing with the the stargazer? All the videos tended to gloss over it

The Stargazer scene is BioWare teasing players (that despite Mass Effect 3 is over there is still more to come about Shepard at an unspecified future time). The crash landing can be easily explained if you have ever expierienced dreams while sleeping. Events there usually break causality which means they happen without reason and usually have no meaning (or sense).

It could also mean a way of Shepard comforting him/herself. What is most important to Shepard? His/her crew. The Normandy scene could just be a way of Shepard comforting him/herself, imagining that his/her crew made it away safely.

See it as a final scene of comfort before Shepard completely gives in to the reapers or breaks free of the attempt.

[byne]

paxxton wrote...

byne wrote...

GloryToChaos, can you please come troll later? With today's WoW server reset I now have both Thunderfury bindings and am busy farming for Arcane Crystals, and thusly I dont have time for trolls at this present time.

Are you a pro gamer?

Nah, just been soloing Molten Core every week for a few months trying to get the bindings.

[GloryToChaos]

paxxton wrote...

GloryToChaos wrote...

paxxton wrote...

GloryToChaos wrote...

Have you ever heard of the church of Scientology? I have a feeling you'd like it.

Why do you think so?

Something about a crazy cult that believes all kinds of fantastical nonsense about space aliens.

Anyways, I did ask a serious question, if indoctrination is indeed the answer, how does it explain the crash-landing scenes and the thing with the the stargazer? All the videos tended to gloss over it

The Stargazer scene is BioWare teasing players (that despite Mass Effect 3 is over there is still more to come about Shepard at an unspecified future time). The crash landing can be easily explained if you have ever expierienced dreams while sleeping. Events there usually break causality which means they happen without reason and usually have no meaning (or sense).

Ok, I can take the stargazer part. But hold on. Almost every single part of the ending that I read about had a ridiculously specific explanation, like the whole part about TIM and Anderson representing parts of Shepard's mind, etc, etc, etc. All that detail and the you sum up the WHOLE crash sequence as a strange dream that makes no sense?

[UrgentArchengel]

I'd rather be in denial honestly. It's not affecting me in real life, so why would I care. If I wish to be more constructive beyond simple whining and moaning then I will. There is nothing wrong with being in denial. Here is a better question, why do you care so much about a bunch of "delusional cultist crackpots"? Shouldn't you have something much better to do, like batter Bioware for another ending your not going to get? Seriously, it pointless, just let it go. I am.

[Vox Draco]

GloryToChaos wrote...
So let's talk about defense mechanisms, in particular, denial. We all agree, the ending was terrible, nonsensical and inconclusive. What it came down to was most people accepting that the ending was tragically awful and battering BIOWARE for a remake or a fix, etc, etc, etc. And then of course there are the people that went off the deep end, compiled an obsessive amount of details in order to create a fantastical ending to replace to the real one because they can't accept their own disappointment at the ending of the franchise.

So basically IT-lers try to get over their grief by being constructive, creative and optimistic, instead of giving in to endless hatred, cynism and defeatism?

This may lead to more disapointement in the end maybe, but at least IT-lers can claim one thing: They proofed that Bioware could have been so much better if they had actually tried...and for me, It-lers have won even if IT is never confirmed, because IT and everything about it is way superior than any literal explanation of teh current endings...and could lead to a far more worthy ending of the series, based on the Mass Effect Lore...

[paxxton]

estebanus wrote...

paxxton wrote...

GloryToChaos wrote...

paxxton wrote...

GloryToChaos wrote...

Have you ever heard of the church of Scientology? I have a feeling you'd like it.

Why do you think so?

Something about a crazy cult that believes all kinds of fantastical nonsense about space aliens.

Anyways, I did ask a serious question, if indoctrination is indeed the answer, how does it explain the crash-landing scenes and the thing with the the stargazer? All the videos tended to gloss over it

The Stargazer scene is BioWare teasing players (that despite Mass Effect 3 is over there is still more to come about Shepard at an unspecified future time). The crash landing can be easily explained if you have ever expierienced dreams while sleeping. Events there usually break causality which means they happen without reason and usually have no meaning (or sense).

It could also mean a way of Shepard comforting him/herself. What is most important to Shepard? His/her crew. The Normandy scene could just be a way of Shepard comforting him/herself, imagining that his/her crew made it away safely.

See it as a final scene of comfort before Shepard completely gives in to the reapers or breaks free of the attempt.

Exactly. Considering that during a dream humans don't think clearly Shepard's friends stranded on a deserted planet with wild animals and no immediate way to survive might give him lots of comfort.

[GloryToChaos]

Vox Draco wrote...

GloryToChaos wrote...
So let's talk about defense mechanisms, in particular, denial. We all agree, the ending was terrible, nonsensical and inconclusive. What it came down to was most people accepting that the ending was tragically awful and battering BIOWARE for a remake or a fix, etc, etc, etc. And then of course there are the people that went off the deep end, compiled an obsessive amount of details in order to create a fantastical ending to replace to the real one because they can't accept their own disappointment at the ending of the franchise.

So basically IT-lers try to get over their grief by being constructive, creative and optimistic, instead of giving in to endless hatred, cynism and defeatism?

This may lead to more disapointement in the end maybe, but at least IT-lers can claim one thing: They proofed that Bioware could have been so much better if they had actually tried...and for me, It-lers have won even if IT is never confirmed, because IT and everything about it is way superior than any literal explanation of teh current endings...and could lead to a far more worthy ending of the series, based on the Mass Effect Lore...

No, what I said was that ITers dealt with their grief with denial, which is the first stage.

[GloryToChaos]

paxxton wrote...

estebanus wrote...

paxxton wrote...

GloryToChaos wrote...

paxxton wrote...

GloryToChaos wrote...

Have you ever heard of the church of Scientology? I have a feeling you'd like it.

Why do you think so?

Something about a crazy cult that believes all kinds of fantastical nonsense about space aliens.

Anyways, I did ask a serious question, if indoctrination is indeed the answer, how does it explain the crash-landing scenes and the thing with the the stargazer? All the videos tended to gloss over it

The Stargazer scene is BioWare teasing players (that despite Mass Effect 3 is over there is still more to come about Shepard at an unspecified future time). The crash landing can be easily explained if you have ever expierienced dreams while sleeping. Events there usually break causality which means they happen without reason and usually have no meaning (or sense).

It could also mean a way of Shepard comforting him/herself. What is most important to Shepard? His/her crew. The Normandy scene could just be a way of Shepard comforting him/herself, imagining that his/her crew made it away safely.

See it as a final scene of comfort before Shepard completely gives in to the reapers or breaks free of the attempt.

Exactly. Considering that during a dream humans don't think clearly Shepard's friends stranded on a deserted planet with wild animals and no immediate way to survive might give him lots of comfort.

Whose side are you on???

[byne]

GloryToChaos wrote...

Vox Draco wrote...

GloryToChaos wrote...
So let's talk about defense mechanisms, in particular, denial. We all agree, the ending was terrible, nonsensical and inconclusive. What it came down to was most people accepting that the ending was tragically awful and battering BIOWARE for a remake or a fix, etc, etc, etc. And then of course there are the people that went off the deep end, compiled an obsessive amount of details in order to create a fantastical ending to replace to the real one because they can't accept their own disappointment at the ending of the franchise.

So basically IT-lers try to get over their grief by being constructive, creative and optimistic, instead of giving in to endless hatred, cynism and defeatism?

This may lead to more disapointement in the end maybe, but at least IT-lers can claim one thing: They proofed that Bioware could have been so much better if they had actually tried...and for me, It-lers have won even if IT is never confirmed, because IT and everything about it is way superior than any literal explanation of teh current endings...and could lead to a far more worthy ending of the series, based on the Mass Effect Lore...

No, what I said was that ITers dealt with their grief with denial, which is the first stage.

Can you please tell me what we're denying, exactly? We all admit that if taken literally the endings suck harder than anything has sucked in a long time. No denial there.

[paxxton]

GloryToChaos wrote...

paxxton wrote...

GloryToChaos wrote...

paxxton wrote...

GloryToChaos wrote...

Have you ever heard of the church of Scientology? I have a feeling you'd like it.

Why do you think so?

Something about a crazy cult that believes all kinds of fantastical nonsense about space aliens.

Anyways, I did ask a serious question, if indoctrination is indeed the answer, how does it explain the crash-landing scenes and the thing with the the stargazer? All the videos tended to gloss over it

The Stargazer scene is BioWare teasing players (that despite Mass Effect 3 is over there is still more to come about Shepard at an unspecified future time). The crash landing can be easily explained if you have ever expierienced dreams while sleeping. Events there usually break causality which means they happen without reason and usually have no meaning (or sense).

Ok, I can take the stargazer part. But hold on. Almost every single part of the ending that I read about had a ridiculously specific explanation, like the whole part about TIM and Anderson representing parts of Shepard's mind, etc, etc, etc. All that detail and the you sum up the WHOLE crash sequence as a strange dream that makes no sense?

The full-blown dream starts after Harbinger hits Shepard with a laser. After you make a choice in the Starchild's chamber Shepard actually falls into another dream within a dream.

[paxxton]

GloryToChaos wrote...

paxxton wrote...

estebanus wrote...

paxxton wrote...

GloryToChaos wrote...

paxxton wrote...

GloryToChaos wrote...

Have you ever heard of the church of Scientology? I have a feeling you'd like it.

Why do you think so?

Something about a crazy cult that believes all kinds of fantastical nonsense about space aliens.

Anyways, I did ask a serious question, if indoctrination is indeed the answer, how does it explain the crash-landing scenes and the thing with the the stargazer? All the videos tended to gloss over it

The Stargazer scene is BioWare teasing players (that despite Mass Effect 3 is over there is still more to come about Shepard at an unspecified future time). The crash landing can be easily explained if you have ever expierienced dreams while sleeping. Events there usually break causality which means they happen without reason and usually have no meaning (or sense).

It could also mean a way of Shepard comforting him/herself. What is most important to Shepard? His/her crew. The Normandy scene could just be a way of Shepard comforting him/herself, imagining that his/her crew made it away safely.

See it as a final scene of comfort before Shepard completely gives in to the reapers or breaks free of the attempt.

Exactly. Considering that during a dream humans don't think clearly Shepard's friends stranded on a deserted planet with wild animals and no immediate way to survive might give him lots of comfort.

Whose side are you on???

What? I think IT makes a great opportunity for future development of the current story.

[Turbo_J]

[quote]Dwailing wrote...

[quote]paxxton wrote...

*mega snip to stop Starbinger from destroying another franchise *

[/quote]
The side effect is that TIM cuts the conversation abruptly and walks away. You get a much more interesting chat if you choose the Paragon way.[/quote]

Is this refering to the charm vs. the intimidate in that conversation?  If so, than did you know that the charm option and the intimidate option have reversed morality rewards?  Yeah, the intimidate gives Paragon points and the charm gives Renegade points.

[/quote]

If I'm not mistaken, this happens in a few places (I think a conversation with Mirranda is like that too), but it's worth looking into more thoroughly because it could explain why the destroy option shows up red but is on the paragon side of the screen.

[GloryToChaos]

paxxton wrote...

GloryToChaos wrote...

paxxton wrote...

GloryToChaos wrote...

paxxton wrote...

GloryToChaos wrote...

Have you ever heard of the church of Scientology? I have a feeling you'd like it.

Why do you think so?

Something about a crazy cult that believes all kinds of fantastical nonsense about space aliens.

Anyways, I did ask a serious question, if indoctrination is indeed the answer, how does it explain the crash-landing scenes and the thing with the the stargazer? All the videos tended to gloss over it

The Stargazer scene is BioWare teasing players (that despite Mass Effect 3 is over there is still more to come about Shepard at an unspecified future time). The crash landing can be easily explained if you have ever expierienced dreams while sleeping. Events there usually break causality which means they happen without reason and usually have no meaning (or sense).

Ok, I can take the stargazer part. But hold on. Almost every single part of the ending that I read about had a ridiculously specific explanation, like the whole part about TIM and Anderson representing parts of Shepard's mind, etc, etc, etc. All that detail and the you sum up the WHOLE crash sequence as a strange dream that makes no sense?

The full-blown dream starts after Harbinger hits Shepard with a laser. After you make a choice in the Starchild's chamber Shepard actually falls into another dream within a dream.

Dream within a dream? That's pushing it.

[paxxton]

[quote][quote]Turbo_J wrote...

[quote]Dwailing wrote...

[quote]paxxton wrote...

*mega snip to stop Starbinger from destroying another franchise *

[/quote]
The side effect is that TIM cuts the conversation abruptly and walks away. You get a much more interesting chat if you choose the Paragon way.[/quote]

Is this refering to the charm vs. the intimidate in that conversation?  If so, than did you know that the charm option and the intimidate option have reversed morality rewards?  Yeah, the intimidate gives Paragon points and the charm gives Renegade points.

[/quote]

If I'm not mistaken, this happens in a few places (I think a conversation with Mirranda is like that too), but it's worth looking into more thoroughly because it could explain why the destroy option shows up red but is on the paragon side of the screen.

[/quote][/quote]
LOL. You quoted that. Dwailing messed up with the quotations. I said the bolded and underlined part.

Modifié par paxxton, 12 juin 2012 - 09:26 .

[Vox Draco]

GloryToChaos wrote...

No, what I said was that ITers dealt with their grief with denial, which is the first stage.

And now we have the same kind of attack against IT as usual, it is always more or less the same...

IT is denial, because I say it is denial. No other interpretation is valid, it is obvious for me that it is denial, and you can say and write whatever you want, you'll never convince me it is NOT denial...

That's why I don't like to engage in discussion involving IT that much. You cannot proof it anyway at this moment, until Bioware either says no or yes. And really, I don't see any point why you or others are so eager to tell the IT-lers they are wrong, idiots or delusional. What do YOU want to proof with your theory? What does it give to you? Your way of getting over the bad ending?

You won't convince anyone supporting IT not to hope for it anymore. Only Bioware can do this, and if they do it, well, I will sadly accept it...And with this I better leave it this way, as every discussion with an Anti-Itler goes in circles very soon anyway. No offense intended

[paxxton]

GloryToChaos wrote...

paxxton wrote...

GloryToChaos wrote...

paxxton wrote...

GloryToChaos wrote...

paxxton wrote...

GloryToChaos wrote...

Have you ever heard of the church of Scientology? I have a feeling you'd like it.

Why do you think so?

Something about a crazy cult that believes all kinds of fantastical nonsense about space aliens.

Anyways, I did ask a serious question, if indoctrination is indeed the answer, how does it explain the crash-landing scenes and the thing with the the stargazer? All the videos tended to gloss over it

The Stargazer scene is BioWare teasing players (that despite Mass Effect 3 is over there is still more to come about Shepard at an unspecified future time). The crash landing can be easily explained if you have ever expierienced dreams while sleeping. Events there usually break causality which means they happen without reason and usually have no meaning (or sense).

Ok, I can take the stargazer part. But hold on. Almost every single part of the ending that I read about had a ridiculously specific explanation, like the whole part about TIM and Anderson representing parts of Shepard's mind, etc, etc, etc. All that detail and the you sum up the WHOLE crash sequence as a strange dream that makes no sense?

The full-blown dream starts after Harbinger hits Shepard with a laser. After you make a choice in the Starchild's chamber Shepard actually falls into another dream within a dream.

Dream within a dream? That's pushing it.

No. I think it's a cool explanation. I recommend you watch Inception. Great movie!

[Memnon]

I guess my question got lost among the ad hominem attacks and insults - but is the thought of IT that everything is by precise design - from the boy in the vent, his death, the dream sequences, etc, including the endings? Based on Bioware's actions and response to the fans' reaction, I have a tough time believing that this is all a part of the grand plan

[estebanus]

paxxton wrote...

estebanus wrote...

paxxton wrote...

GloryToChaos wrote...

paxxton wrote...

GloryToChaos wrote...

Have you ever heard of the church of Scientology? I have a feeling you'd like it.

Why do you think so?

Something about a crazy cult that believes all kinds of fantastical nonsense about space aliens.

Anyways, I did ask a serious question, if indoctrination is indeed the answer, how does it explain the crash-landing scenes and the thing with the the stargazer? All the videos tended to gloss over it

The Stargazer scene is BioWare teasing players (that despite Mass Effect 3 is over there is still more to come about Shepard at an unspecified future time). The crash landing can be easily explained if you have ever expierienced dreams while sleeping. Events there usually break causality which means they happen without reason and usually have no meaning (or sense).

It could also mean a way of Shepard comforting him/herself. What is most important to Shepard? His/her crew. The Normandy scene could just be a way of Shepard comforting him/herself, imagining that his/her crew made it away safely.

See it as a final scene of comfort before Shepard completely gives in to the reapers or breaks free of the attempt.

Exactly. Considering that during a dream humans don't think clearly Shepard's friends stranded on a deserted planet with wild animals and no immediate way to survive might give him lots of comfort.

Missing the point.

As far as Shepard knows, the Mass Relays blow up, right? S/he has no way of knowing if the explosions killed everyone or if they didn't. What did a lot of Shepard's friends want to do? They wanted to retire to a tropical beach somewhere far away where they could live in peace for the rest of their lives. I think that it symbolizes that. In adream, you don't think about the implications of what just happened, do you? At least not immediately.

[paxxton]

estebanus wrote...

paxxton wrote...

estebanus wrote...

paxxton wrote...

GloryToChaos wrote...

paxxton wrote...

GloryToChaos wrote...

Have you ever heard of the church of Scientology? I have a feeling you'd like it.

Why do you think so?

Something about a crazy cult that believes all kinds of fantastical nonsense about space aliens.

Anyways, I did ask a serious question, if indoctrination is indeed the answer, how does it explain the crash-landing scenes and the thing with the the stargazer? All the videos tended to gloss over it

The Stargazer scene is BioWare teasing players (that despite Mass Effect 3 is over there is still more to come about Shepard at an unspecified future time). The crash landing can be easily explained if you have ever expierienced dreams while sleeping. Events there usually break causality which means they happen without reason and usually have no meaning (or sense).

It could also mean a way of Shepard comforting him/herself. What is most important to Shepard? His/her crew. The Normandy scene could just be a way of Shepard comforting him/herself, imagining that his/her crew made it away safely.

See it as a final scene of comfort before Shepard completely gives in to the reapers or breaks free of the attempt.

Exactly. Considering that during a dream humans don't think clearly Shepard's friends stranded on a deserted planet with wild animals and no immediate way to survive might give him lots of comfort.

Missing the point.

As far as Shepard knows, the Mass Relays blow up, right? S/he has no way of knowing if the explosions killed everyone or if they didn't. What did a lot of Shepard's friends want to do? They wanted to retire to a tropical beach somewhere far away where they could live in peace for the rest of their lives. I think that it symbolizes that. In adream, you don't think about the implications of what just happened, do you? At least not immediately.

This is what I meant.

[Turbo_J]

MaximizedAction wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

Arashi08 wrote...

After following HellishFiend's and Epyon's discussion, it got me thinking about something Anderson states midway into the game about London and how "something big is happening there." and this was all long before we learn the Citadel is the Catalyst and that before the Reapers move the Citadel there. And as it turns out, based on in game evidence, London IS significant to the Reaper's plans as they move the Citadel basically right over top of it to facilitate their harvesting of humanity.

So, looking at this even at face value, it seems like moving the Citadel to London was their plan all along. they start preparing for it midway through the game and then the Citadel is basically in orbit over London by the end.

So, based on the fact that the Reapers are mostly concentrated on Earth, Harbinger's personal interest in Shepard, and Vendetta's statement of the Reapers using the Citadel to complete the harvesting of humanity, and their supposed plan to turn humanity into a Sovereign-class Reaper, it seems pretty likely they were planning to move the Citadel there all along. The question now is, why did they wait until now to do it? were they attempting to weaken the galaxy's defenses first? were they trying to locate Shepard? or could it just be story convenient? I'm not sure, but to me it seems likely that when TIM informed the Reapers of Shepard's plan they expidated their plans, knowing the Crucible was finished. I don't believe they were scared, but they were being strategically cautious, OR if the Crucible turns out to be a trap,just trying to fool the invading fleets into thinking it was vital for them to protect it, yet it was almost too easy for them to get the Crucible in place...

Whether you believe in IT or a face-value interpretation it does see like something is amiss doean't it? Still, much of this is open to interpretation, as usual.

Good post. You raise some points I hadnt thought of before. I'd have to think on it a bit to come up with any speculations, though. London being revealed as a big point of interest for the Reapers prior to the catalyst/citadel thing is curious, to be sure.  If it has any implications for IT, they arent immediately apparent. 

The easiest explaination to avoid unnecessary eyebrow raising is, that the Prothean VI was hacked. It is a fact that we don't really know for sure what TIM really did. Or at least, I'm not fully convinced that he ran to the Reapers and then "48 hours later" he mumbles about having faith in his abilities.

Not only that, but if TIM wanted to control Reapers and did find anything useful within the VI's databanks, the last thing he would do was go to the Reapers. I still think he's indoctrinated, but he still thinks he's in control of himself. I'll actually feel a bit sory for him when those Reaper implants he installed in himself are activated by Harbinger and what's left of him is sent after Shepard.

You see; TIM installed Reaper tech into himself thinking it was a great idea at the time. Saren had Reaper doctors do it for him I guess, but what's the difference. TIM could now potentially be Directly Controlled thanks to his clouded judgement.

There is another little tiny 'fly in the lotion' here; some of that tech was sabotaged by Jacob's Cerberus scientist buddies, as noted on a datapad in the lab where you find Archer. Could that bit of tinkering cause Harbinger harm, or was it part of the plan to make TIM easier to control... Maybe we'll find out.

Modifié par Turbo_J, 12 juin 2012 - 09:31 .

[GethPrimeMKII]

Thread was getting interesting til this chump troll showed up. Brb lurking multiplayer forum.

P.s. anyone play the ps3 me3? I could really use some decently skilled companions in mp

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

Turbo_J wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

Arashi08 wrote...

After following HellishFiend's and Epyon's discussion, it got me thinking about something Anderson states midway into the game about London and how "something big is happening there." and this was all long before we learn the Citadel is the Catalyst and that before the Reapers move the Citadel there. And as it turns out, based on in game evidence, London IS significant to the Reaper's plans as they move the Citadel basically right over top of it to facilitate their harvesting of humanity.

So, looking at this even at face value, it seems like moving the Citadel to London was their plan all along. they start preparing for it midway through the game and then the Citadel is basically in orbit over London by the end.

So, based on the fact that the Reapers are mostly concentrated on Earth, Harbinger's personal interest in Shepard, and Vendetta's statement of the Reapers using the Citadel to complete the harvesting of humanity, and their supposed plan to turn humanity into a Sovereign-class Reaper, it seems pretty likely they were planning to move the Citadel there all along. The question now is, why did they wait until now to do it? were they attempting to weaken the galaxy's defenses first? were they trying to locate Shepard? or could it just be story convenient? I'm not sure, but to me it seems likely that when TIM informed the Reapers of Shepard's plan they expidated their plans, knowing the Crucible was finished. I don't believe they were scared, but they were being strategically cautious, OR if the Crucible turns out to be a trap,just trying to fool the invading fleets into thinking it was vital for them to protect it, yet it was almost too easy for them to get the Crucible in place...

Whether you believe in IT or a face-value interpretation it does see like something is amiss doean't it? Still, much of this is open to interpretation, as usual.

Good post. You raise some points I hadnt thought of before. I'd have to think on it a bit to come up with any speculations, though. London being revealed as a big point of interest for the Reapers prior to the catalyst/citadel thing is curious, to be sure.  If it has any implications for IT, they arent immediately apparent. 

The easiest explaination to avoid unnecessary eyebrow raising is, that the Prothean VI was hacked. It is a fact that we don't really know for sure what TIM really did. Or at least, I'm not fully convinced that he ran to the Reapers and then "48 hours later" he mumbles about having faith in his abilities.

Not only that, but if TIM wanted to control Reapers and did find anything useful within the VI's databanks, the last thing he would do was go to the Reapers. I still think he's indoctrinated, but he still thinks he's in control of himself. I'll actually feel a bit sory for him when those Reaper implants he installed in himself are activated by Harbinger and what's left of him is sent after Shepard.

You see; TIM installed Reaper tech into himself thinking it was a great idea at the time. Saren had Reaper doctors do it for him I guess, but what's the difference. TIM could now potentially be Directly Controlled thanks to his clouded judgement.

There is another little tiny 'fly in the lotion' here; some of that tech was sabotaged by Jacob's Cerberus scientist buddies, as noted on a datapad in the lab where you find Archer. Could that bit of tinkering cause Harbinger harm, or was it part of the plan to make TIM easier to control... Maybe we'll find out.

Funny that you start talking about TIM now. I got major post ready just the moment we hit next page which include him. Dont want it lost at the bottom of a page.

Modifié par Raistlin Majare 1992, 12 juin 2012 - 09:33 .