55528 réponses à ce sujet

[paxxton]

HellishFiend wrote...

paxxton wrote...

Am I the only one that sees that emoticon as insane with a touch of psychotic? I'm glad it doesnt show up in this thread very often... <_<

LOL. It's a surprised enthusiastic smiley.

[SackofCat]

Unrelated aside: Rifneno, I enjoyed reading many of your posts in the Dragon Age 2 forums, particularly those about the lore, though I haven't been there in a while.

[llbountyhunter]

SackofCat wrote...

A scene of Shepard (probably) taking a breath in some rubble would imply that Shepard survived. You can argue that the catalyst was disingenuous or wrong (or that it is a reward for playing multiplayer) but not much more.

I have seen the still images of Shepard's eyes in the control/synthesis that bear a resemblance to the eyes of Saren/TIM. In the video of the control ending, Shepard's eyes clearly resemble TIM's baby blues. It is much harder, if not impossible, to spot (other than the green color, perhaps) in the video of the synthesis ending.

If Shepard's eyes are meant to symbolize (since it only happens in Shepard's head, according to IT) his/her submission to the reapers, why is there such a disparity? What narrative purpose does making it so hard to spot in the synthesis ending and easy to spot in the control ending serve?

If Shepard is transformed into some kind of disembodied will that is able to influence the reapers, the eyes in the control ending may symbolize the fundamental bond Shepard now has with the reapers. This is speculation but it can explain the disparity without requiring that the entire ending only happen in Shelard's head.

I agree that this eye pattern has only been used on 2 people that ultimately became pawns or avatars of the reapers. However, there are too many inconsistencies to argue that it symbolizes Shepard being indoctrinated without claiming that every part of the story and the story itself suddenly became exclusively symbolic at the end.

Correct me if I am mistaken.

1. It would also imply that shepard survived a explsion stronger than the wake of a supernovae, and then a re-entry. (if taken literally.... It solves this quite elegantly.)

2. as a whole IT itself is not particularly difficult to see, however, some minor details do require closer examinatons.
3. well, the entire mass effect series if chauk full of symbolism. not exclusive to the ending. 

Modifié par llbountyhunter, 13 juin 2012 - 01:58 .

[HellishFiend]

SackofCat wrote...

A scene of Shepard (probably) taking a breath in some rubble would imply that Shepard survived. You can argue that the catalyst was disingenuous or wrong (or that it is a reward for playing multiplayer) but not much more.

I have seen the still images of Shepard's eyes in the control/synthesis that bear a resemblance to the eyes of Saren/TIM. In the video of the control ending, Shepard's eyes clearly resemble TIM's baby blues. It is much harder, if not impossible, to spot (other than the green color, perhaps) in the video of the synthesis ending.

If Shepard's eyes are meant to symbolize (since it only happens in Shepard's head, according to IT) his/her submission to the reapers, why is there such a disparity? What narrative purpose does making it so hard to spot in the synthesis ending and easy to spot in the control ending serve?

If Shepard is transformed into some kind of disembodied will that is able to influence the reapers, the eyes in the control ending may symbolize the fundamental bond Shepard now has with the reapers. This is speculation but it can explain the disparity without requiring that the entire ending only happen in Shelard's head.

I agree that this eye pattern has only been used on 2 people that ultimately became pawns or avatars of the reapers. However, there are too many inconsistencies to argue that it symbolizes Shepard being indoctrinated without claiming that every part of the story and the story itself suddenly became exclusively symbolic at the end.

Correct me if I am mistaken.

You seem to have put a lot of thought into these counterpoints and questions, so I think you are deserving of a response. Tackling these kind of posts is not my preferred activity, but we do have a couple of regulars that enjoy responding to them. I'll make sure one of them sees it so that you get your response. 

Thank you for raising your concerns in a polite manner, by the way. Many people dont. 

[Arian Dynas]

Rifneno wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

And I will now be honest and reveal my secret.

I am not some all knowing god who includes the name of everyone in the list.

(Presidium Fish Krogan Voice) What?

God.  That poor krogan.  I felt so bad for him.  He sounded like you just crushed all his hopes and dreams.  I'd expect a cheerier "what?" if I'd just told him his wife was leaving him.  For a salarian.

Well fine, if you're all so eager to believe I am one, then I demand worship! Worship and sacrifice! Worship me for cleric spells daily! My domains are madness and logic! Followers must fall within one step of Lawful Awesome.

And D. Sharrah. Check again, you're on the list now.

[HellishFiend]

There you are, Arian! Do you feel up to responding to SackofCat's post?

[munnellyladt]

Arian Dynas wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

And I will now be honest and reveal my secret.

I am not some all knowing god who includes the name of everyone in the list.

(Presidium Fish Krogan Voice) What?

God.  That poor krogan.  I felt so bad for him.  He sounded like you just crushed all his hopes and dreams.  I'd expect a cheerier "what?" if I'd just told him his wife was leaving him.  For a salarian.

Well fine, if you're all so eager to believe I am one, then I demand worship! Worship and sacrifice! Worship me for cleric spells daily! My domains are madness and logic! Followers must fall within one step of Lawful Awesome.

And D. Sharrah. Check again, you're on the list now.

Are you still looking for help to see whos an indoctrinationist or troll?
because i'd love to help 

[Arian Dynas]

Still in a pissy mood about my computer fan, since I need to mail the ****ing thing back to a service station.

In ****ing Seattle.

From Anchorage.

The week before I have to leave to attend my brother's wedding.

I hate Hewlett Packard right now.

But yeah, already working on her post.

[Arian Dynas]

munnellyladt wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

And I will now be honest and reveal my secret.

I am not some all knowing god who includes the name of everyone in the list.

(Presidium Fish Krogan Voice) What?

God.  That poor krogan.  I felt so bad for him.  He sounded like you just crushed all his hopes and dreams.  I'd expect a cheerier "what?" if I'd just told him his wife was leaving him.  For a salarian.

Well fine, if you're all so eager to believe I am one, then I demand worship! Worship and sacrifice! Worship me for cleric spells daily! My domains are madness and logic! Followers must fall within one step of Lawful Awesome.

And D. Sharrah. Check again, you're on the list now.

Are you still looking for help to see whos an indoctrinationist or troll?
because i'd love to help 

Go to the discussion in the IDT group.

[Turbo_J]

HellishFiend wrote...

There you are, Arian! Do you feel up to responding to SackofCat's post?

I was actually going to give it a shot, but I'll let Arian take this one.

I will, however reiterate that you cannot focus on one things that will simply expose IT. As Liara and Vendetta would say, the pattern is there, hidden in the data.

[paxxton]

Arian Dynas wrote...

Still in a pissy mood about my computer fan, since I need to mail the ****ing thing back to a service station.

In ****ing Seattle.

From Anchorage.

The week before I have to leave to attend my brother's wedding.

I hate Hewlett Packard right now.

But yeah, already working on her post.

Can't you take a flying saucer or something? jk

Seriously, days without a computer (or Internet access) can be the longest ones.

Modifié par paxxton, 13 juin 2012 - 02:21 .

[HellishFiend]

Arian Dynas wrote...

Still in a pissy mood about my computer fan, since I need to mail the ****ing thing back to a service station.

In ****ing Seattle.

From Anchorage.

The week before I have to leave to attend my brother's wedding.

I hate Hewlett Packard right now.

But yeah, already working on her post.

That does suck, man.  Sorry you have to deal with that. 

[munnellyladt]

Arian Dynas wrote...

munnellyladt wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

And I will now be honest and reveal my secret.

I am not some all knowing god who includes the name of everyone in the list.

(Presidium Fish Krogan Voice) What?

God.  That poor krogan.  I felt so bad for him.  He sounded like you just crushed all his hopes and dreams.  I'd expect a cheerier "what?" if I'd just told him his wife was leaving him.  For a salarian.

Well fine, if you're all so eager to believe I am one, then I demand worship! Worship and sacrifice! Worship me for cleric spells daily! My domains are madness and logic! Followers must fall within one step of Lawful Awesome.

And D. Sharrah. Check again, you're on the list now.

Are you still looking for help to see whos an indoctrinationist or troll?
because i'd love to help 

Go to the discussion in the IDT group.

thanks.

[HellishFiend]

Turbo_J wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

There you are, Arian! Do you feel up to responding to SackofCat's post?

I was actually going to give it a shot, but I'll let Arian take this one.

I will, however reiterate that you cannot focus on one things that will simply expose IT. As Liara and Vendetta would say, the pattern is there, hidden in the data.

Hey Turbo, I had a post of yours set aside that had some things you wanted corroborated from your investigation into London, but I think I accidentally closed the tab it was in when I was cleaning up. Do you happen to remember where it was?

[Arian Dynas]

Turbo_J wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

There you are, Arian! Do you feel up to responding to SackofCat's post?

I was actually going to give it a shot, but I'll let Arian take this one.

I will, however reiterate that you cannot focus on one things that will simply expose IT. As Liara and Vendetta would say, the pattern is there, hidden in the data.

No please do join in, my mind is far from concentrated right now, so I am not at my best.

[Arian Dynas]

HellishFiend wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

Still in a pissy mood about my computer fan, since I need to mail the ****ing thing back to a service station.

In ****ing Seattle.

From Anchorage.

The week before I have to leave to attend my brother's wedding.

I hate Hewlett Packard right now.

But yeah, already working on her post.

That does suck, man.  Sorry you have to deal with that. 

*brohug* *sigh* It could be worse, at least nothing got fried to the point of true overheating and I can still make backups from it. Swap out the fan and she'll be better than new.

I just wish it could have happened last week, so that I wouldn't have to deal with it this week, so close to leaving.

[Jadebaby]

Is anyone else loosing faith in IT? I want to believe it's going to happen, but the more I hear from VA's and Bioware the more I doubt it.

This comes after the recent Kimberley Brooks interview where she says the EC DLC will "clarify" and "justify" the current endings, nothing more.

[Arashi08]

Maybe I'm wrong but if the next MP link does turn out to be true like the others, it does seem to imply that the MP is following the storyline rather intricately. if the nest MP matches DO take place on earth then it practically screams out that the story isn't finished. The way they are doing this in a way that seems like it is mirroring the events in the Reaper war REALLY feels like they are building up to something big in the story.

I can't seem to phathom that BW would take us to these planets in MP that seem to follow the events of the Reaper war in SP, possibly lead us to Earth, where the final battle is supposed to be and just say. "Congratulations you've completed the multiplayer tie-in to the singleplayer storyline, there will be no new operations or promotions because Shepard has finally destoryed the Reapers, we hope you will continue to enjoy multiplayer though!" *insert trollface*

[HellishFiend]

Jade8aby88 wrote...

Is anyone else loosing faith in IT? I want to believe it's going to happen, but the more I hear from VA's and Bioware the more I doubt it.

This comes after the recent Kimberley Brooks interview where she says the EC DLC will "clarify" and "justify" the current endings, nothing more.

Can you explain why you feel that the act of clarification and justification can only apply to the face value interpretation?

If someone does something you think is weird, or wrong, and they "clarify and justify" it to you, it doesnt mean they did something different, it just explains why they did it. If IT is correct, "clarify and justify" fits perfectly, because it clarifies that the endings as we see them didnt occur in reality, and justifies the reasons why things happen the way they do in the manner they are presented to the player. 

[paxxton]

Jade8aby88 wrote...

Is anyone else loosing faith in IT? I want to believe it's going to happen, but the more I hear from VA's and Bioware the more I doubt it.

This comes after the recent Kimberley Brooks interview where she says the EC DLC will "clarify" and "justify" the current endings, nothing more.

What interview?

[Arian Dynas]

HellishFiend wrote...

SackofCat wrote...

A scene of Shepard (probably) taking a breath in some rubble would imply that Shepard survived. You can argue that the catalyst was disingenuous or wrong (or that it is a reward for playing multiplayer) but not much more.

I have seen the still images of Shepard's eyes in the control/synthesis that bear a resemblance to the eyes of Saren/TIM. In the video of the control ending, Shepard's eyes clearly resemble TIM's baby blues. It is much harder, if not impossible, to spot (other than the green color, perhaps) in the video of the synthesis ending.

If Shepard's eyes are meant to symbolize (since it only happens in Shepard's head, according to IT) his/her submission to the reapers, why is there such a disparity? What narrative purpose does making it so hard to spot in the synthesis ending and easy to spot in the control ending serve?

If Shepard is transformed into some kind of disembodied will that is able to influence the reapers, the eyes in the control ending may symbolize the fundamental bond Shepard now has with the reapers. This is speculation but it can explain the disparity without requiring that the entire ending only happen in Shelard's head.

I agree that this eye pattern has only been used on 2 people that ultimately became pawns or avatars of the reapers. However, there are too many inconsistencies to argue that it symbolizes Shepard being indoctrinated without claiming that every part of the story and the story itself suddenly became exclusively symbolic at the end.

Correct me if I am mistaken.

You seem to have put a lot of thought into these counterpoints and questions, so I think you are deserving of a response. Tackling these kind of posts is not my preferred activity, but we do have a couple of regulars that enjoy responding to them. I'll make sure one of them sees it so that you get your response. 

Thank you for raising your concerns in a polite manner, by the way. Many people dont. 

1. The fact alone that the Guardian is lying should make you question why you trust this heretofore unknown being, or why you should believe anything he tells you. He flat out lies to your face. Why should you have any reason to believe him when he informs you of all this other stuff that sounds like complete bull**** and comes right the **** out of nowhere. Morever, we KNOW the Reapers are very good at psychological warfare, we see it several times in fact. Banshees, Husks in general, the aura of defeat and despair that seems to drip from them and everything they touch, not even just indoctrination, just genuine regular old natural fear, their actions are carefully planned out to demoralize and manipulate Organic minds. In Indoctrination Theory, there are really only two choices, anything else is cosmetic. The choice you have is ; Do you believe what you are told by the so-called Catalyst? Or not?

2. We have high resolution shots of the Indoctrinated eyes in Synthesis lying around here someone, someone find Prettz, he should have some. We even see some patterns resembling Reaper Cables running through the sclera of the eyes in fact. What really is unique about these eyes is just the fact that they are there. Yes, not everyone who is indoctrinated has these eyes, but the fact is, anyone who has these eyes got them from a Reaper Source and was indoctrinated by that source. (TIM and the Arch Monolith)

3. There is no narrative disparity, only visual, and that really depends on how good your picture is. It's a detail that can get lost, sorry, but that's the way it is.

4. It perhaps could... if it wasn't for the fact that they do appear in the Synthesis ending as well, and really, it comes down to; "Do you feel you can trust the Reapers?" an overwhelming majority say "No".

5. Considering a large chunk of it IS symbolic under IDT, I don't see your point.

And something to consider. If you look at it at face value, assuming you believe the Star child, Destroy has no purpose and no appeal. There is nothing about Destroy that is appealing compared to Control and Synthesis if you choose to believe that you are being told the truth. The only way it DOES have any kind of appeal whatsoever, is if you assume you are being lied to.

[Turbo_J]

Arian Dynas wrote...

Turbo_J wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

There you are, Arian! Do you feel up to responding to SackofCat's post?

I was actually going to give it a shot, but I'll let Arian take this one.

I will, however reiterate that you cannot focus on one things that will simply expose IT. As Liara and Vendetta would say, the pattern is there, hidden in the data.

No please do join in, my mind is far from concentrated right now, so I am not at my best.

Okay, it may be a bit, but I'll get to it. I need to find that post on the screen bob/weapon bob issue for Hellish.

Sorry about the computer issues. I get it. I work on them for a living.

[HellishFiend]

Arashi08 wrote...

Maybe I'm wrong but if the next MP link does turn out to be true like the others, it does seem to imply that the MP is following the storyline rather intricately. if the nest MP matches DO take place on earth then it practically screams out that the story isn't finished. The way they are doing this in a way that seems like it is mirroring the events in the Reaper war REALLY feels like they are building up to something big in the story.

I can't seem to phathom that BW would take us to these planets in MP that seem to follow the events of the Reaper war in SP, possibly lead us to Earth, where the final battle is supposed to be and just say. "Congratulations you've completed the multiplayer tie-in to the singleplayer storyline, there will be no new operations or promotions because Shepard has finally destoryed the Reapers, we hope you will continue to enjoy multiplayer though!" *insert trollface*

I dont think you're wrong. I think the EC and the Earth MP DLC will be released at the same time. EC will create a "resurgence" (lol) of interest in MP, resulting in more reinforcement pack sales for them. BW will then go on to release more SP and MP content that follows whatever conclusion the EC brings us to. 

[munnellyladt]

Jade8aby88 wrote...

Is anyone else loosing faith in IT? I want to believe it's going to happen, but the more I hear from VA's and Bioware the more I doubt it.

This comes after the recent Kimberley Brooks interview where she says the EC DLC will "clarify" and "justify" the current endings, nothing more.

You never know what their planning,sometimes they say something suspicious like jessica marizan does all the time or their saying stuff that makes people confused.
either way you cant deny how well the theory fits with the ending and Bioware definately know that.

[HellishFiend]

Turbo_J wrote...

Okay, it may be a bit, but I'll get to it. I need to find that post on the screen bob/weapon bob issue for Hellish.

Sorry about the computer issues. I get it. I work on them for a living.

Sorry about that. I'm kicking myself for closing that tab.