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[prettz]

almost....done ....with ....vid. 
just a few changes to fix.

the last 60 seconds of it  show how I feel and want for the ending of mass effect 3.

clocked at 10 min

(yes im haveing to much fun with this^_^)

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

Reposting this since it seems it was los in the rush to 3000 pages.

Okay everyone I have spend enough time discussing other theories as to what the Crucible is or what happens, now I am going to post an idea of my own. Hang with me cause this is gonna be long.

To start of what do we know of the Crucible. Well, it is not much, but there is one thing we know for certain. It si capable of generating unquantifiable levels of energy and on that basis alone it is interesting, but let us
keep that here for now.

Many have presented based on the convenience of the location of the Crucible plans that it is planted by
the Reapers as a trap. I fully support this idea to an extent.

To sum this up I believe that the best lies always carry a grain of truth.I think the Crucible was indeed at some point a superweapon against theReapers, possibly the one causing the Klendragon rift, but the Reapers got their hands (tentacles) on the plans and saw an opputunity. Instead of just destroying them, they modified the plans, removed an important component (essentially the Catalyst) and made the describtions of it vague before leaving it for future cycles to find.

It would make sense that the plans are genuine to some degree because else Idoubt the Sciencetists wokring on it would not have realized something was of. If you build something and yet it seemed to do nothing, would you
not get suspicious?

But without the Catalyst the Crucible dosent work and only the Reapers know what the Catalyst is and can
freely leave fake Catalysts for luring enemy forces into traps or forcing direct confrontations even as the species of the Cycle waste resources buildinga weapon they cannot use.

But i believe victory at Earth comes from finding the true Catalyst and making the Crucible work. How are we
gonna do that? Well my idea lies with an old player in this game, one that was once a friend and now an enemy. The Illusive Man.

Now bear with me for a moment as I explain.

If the scene of TIM on the Citadel is a halucination we dont know where he is, in fact we dont even know if he has succumbed to indoctrination. Now I am not saying he has never been Indoctrinated, it is clear that he is to at least some degree, but how much?

How much did he know?Eva managed to get the Crucible plans , though how do we know she dident manage to transmit them to TIM as she ran? There was even other Cerberus forces still there she could have transmitted them too.

He also steals the VI on Thessia from us, something it is allready curouis that he knew about and as such he knows about the Catalyst, or at least what the VI says is the Catalyst. Same VI that laters says he warned the Reapers and headed for the Citadel. How truthful the VI is however can be discussed.

BeforeI move on another curouis thing is the surgery TIM goes through. If the TIM scene on the Citadel is fake then what did he get planted in his body there? Transmitters for that husk control signal? Possibly, but what if it was more than that.

Remember what  Miranda said about a control chip, that there was none in Shepard. Just because there is none
in Shepard dosent mean that none ever had one. TIM already experimented with controlling people and with AI´s and he is no fool either.

Now you probably want me to get to the point, so here it is. I think TIM might be the key to making the Crucible working, that he possibly knows what the true Catalyst is and where  to find it and has been preparing in more ways than one for what is coming.

Imagine he was truly  on the Citadel, but had been prearing for the Crucible to be connected, either with the real catalyst or using some sort of bypass deviced by himself transferring the Crucibles power into different systems thus making it a weapon. Possibly fully Indoctrinated at this point, but that is something he prepared for ahead of time in the surgery. A controlchip in his mind along with a sophisticated VI or AI to seize control of him the moment a trigger is hit, like Shepard showing up. (I wont try to get into how Shepard gets there as that is different theory
souroudning that beam in London.)

At this point he would explain what would need to be done, perhaps even as the AI/VI struggled with the

Indoctrinated body. This would culminate as Harbinger assumes direct control of TIM focing our "final boss encounter," after which you can activate the Crucible.

What does it do? Well that is a good question. You all know my idea of Mass Accelerator Cannon which could
feasibly even the odds without beeing a Reaper of button. Though i personally dont like it, it is possible TIM could use the Crucible to magnify his husk control signal to affect the Reapers, but i would personally find
such an ending...well let us not get into that shall we, what the Crucible exactly does can be debated for a million times and we wont get any closer before EC.

This would give TIM a pupose in the ending, one that is not that of a complete villian, but still following the Ideals he made Cerberus on right up until the end and we get our fight with Harbinger.

Also just a minor point about TIM. I personally beleive he is well aware of the threat Indoctrination posses, he would be pretty stupid to be fumbling around with that exact kind of ressearch and never even consider that he might be affected. Offcourse considering the Normandy crew dosent do that, it is possible he really never gave it thought, but it would seem strange with his obsession withcontrol that he never thinks that he can be controlled.

And that is where the idea of control chip for TIM comes. If he indeed gave it a thought, he would probably have been prepared. Sacrificing even his own freedom for his ideals would be a powerful end for him, one way

more fitting than just Indoctrinated puppet if you ask me. Also it wouldprove that his ressearch of the Reapers in the end did pay of even if the cost was terrible.

But tell me what you think, it is your turn to hit me with your questions, but as always in this thread I point out it is just a theory

But no matter how you take this theory I beg that you remember that no matter what you think, the Crucible dosent do nothing. We know it is capable of generating unquantifiable levels of energy and that energy has to go somewhere.

Edit: And once again it ****ed up the layout, clearing it up.

Modifié par Raistlin Majare 1992, 13 juin 2012 - 06:40 .

[UrgentArchengel]

prettz wrote...

almost....done ....with ....vid. 
just a few changes to fix.

the last 60 seconds of it  show how I feel and want for the ending of mass effect 3.

clocked at 10 min

(yes im haveing to much fun with this^_^)

Nice!!!! Can't wait!!!!  :D:D

[HellishFiend]

prettz wrote...

almost....done ....with ....vid. 
just a few changes to fix.

the last 60 seconds of it  show how I feel and want for the ending of mass effect 3.

clocked at 10 min

(yes im haveing to much fun with this^_^)

:happy:

[Arian Dynas]

@ Raistlin. I disagree on one count. In my opinion, there is no missing component (and funnily enough, I was the one to sugguest this idea O.o) because the Crucible engineers would likely find this to be too obvious

What I DO think however, is what is demonstrated in my script, a sort of safety switch, like that you find on a gun, keeping the Crucible from firing until certain conditions, like the presence or integration of a Reaper behind the controls, are met.

Oh and by the way, saw one of your posts a while back, and FYI, you ARE a valuable person here.

[HellishFiend]

Raistlin, I did read your theory when you first posted it, and it is very well laid out and articulated. The reason I cant get behind it is because it doesnt address the plot hole that the Reapers would allow the organics to build and possess an item that even has a remote chance of being used not only against them, but as a means to actually achieve total victory against them. 

They are overly prideful and arrogant, but they are not foolish or stupid.

I would almost go so far as to say that we can safely conclude that the Reapers knew about the Crucible long before we think they did, and that for one reason or another they are not at risk of being defeated through direct use of it, even if it is just missing a critical component that the organics arent yet aware of. 

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

Arian Dynas wrote...

@ Raistlin. I disagree on one count. In my opinion, there is no missing component (and funnily enough, I was the one to sugguest this idea O.o) because the Crucible engineers would likely find this to be too obvious

What I DO think however, is what is demonstrated in my script, a sort of safety switch, like that you find on a gun, keeping the Crucible from firing until certain conditions, like the presence or integration of a Reaper behind the controls, are met.

Oh and by the way, saw one of your posts a while back, and FYI, you ARE a valuable person here.

Thank you.

And missing component or not TIM might play a major role in what it is that will make it work. In fact i hope TIM gets more than just the honor of beeing Indoctrinated servant of the week as my post should show.

He could be both hero and villian at the same time as I cover and that I think would be a valuable scene.

[UrgentArchengel]

@Raistlin

It's a good theory. I especially like the part about TIM. I agree though about the crucible, I honestly have no idea. A signal that weakens the Reapers, ala Sovereign after deafeating Saren, would work, and help with beating the Reapers conventially, but that's just not dramatic enough.

[Arian Dynas]

HellishFiend wrote...

Raistlin, I did read your theory when you first posted it, and it is very well laid out and articulated. The reason I cant get behind it is because it doesnt address the plot hole that the Reapers would allow the organics to build and possess an item that even has a remote chance of being used not only against them, but as a means to actually achieve total victory against them. 

They are overly prideful and arrogant, but they are not foolish or stupid.

I would almost go so far as to say that we can safely conclude that the Reapers knew about the Crucible long before we think they did, and that for one reason or another they are not at risk of being defeated through direct use of it, even if it is just missing a critical component that the organics arent yet aware of. 

Simplest explanation is that the Reapers WANT it built, as a method of forcing organics to waste time and resources, waste men in fruitless attempts to recover the Citadel (which they usually have a VERY firm grasp on from the get-go, remember, this cycle is NOT going according to plan AT ALL.) and that if it had an obvious design flaw or something to that respect, it could be uncovered and designed past, fixed, or disabled, hence why it would need to be subtle.

Basically, if you give your enemy a gun with the safety switch locked in place, and no bullets in the chamber, oh and by the way, he has to kill you to get those bullets, I'd say you're pretty well safe. Remember, this cycle is an anomaly in how well we are doing.

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

HellishFiend wrote...

Raistlin, I did read your theory when you first posted it, and it is very well laid out and articulated. The reason I cant get behind it is because it doesnt address the plot hole that the Reapers would allow the organics to build and possess an item that even has a remote chance of being used not only against them, but as a means to actually achieve total victory against them. 

They are overly prideful and arrogant, but they are not foolish or stupid.

I would almost go so far as to say that we can safely conclude that the Reapers knew about the Crucible long before we think they did, and that for one reason or another they are not at risk of being defeated through direct use of it, even if it is just missing a critical component that the organics arent yet aware of. 

I see your point, but...

...I would argue that no matter what idea we come up with regarding the Crucible a plothole follows with it. Funnily enough it is often Reaper related and would require them to be foolish or stupid.

But fact is that the Crucible needs to work in some way or the battle at Earth and extension the war is lost. That is simple mathmatics using what we know, it is what everything tells us. The Crucible is the only X in this equation.

[HellishFiend]

Arian Dynas wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

Raistlin, I did read your theory when you first posted it, and it is very well laid out and articulated. The reason I cant get behind it is because it doesnt address the plot hole that the Reapers would allow the organics to build and possess an item that even has a remote chance of being used not only against them, but as a means to actually achieve total victory against them. 

They are overly prideful and arrogant, but they are not foolish or stupid.

I would almost go so far as to say that we can safely conclude that the Reapers knew about the Crucible long before we think they did, and that for one reason or another they are not at risk of being defeated through direct use of it, even if it is just missing a critical component that the organics arent yet aware of. 

Simplest explanation is that the Reapers WANT it built, as a method of forcing organics to waste time and resources, waste men in fruitless attempts to recover the Citadel (which they usually have a VERY firm grasp on from the get-go, remember, this cycle is NOT going according to plan AT ALL.) and that if it had an obvious design flaw or something to that respect, it could be uncovered and designed past, fixed, or disabled, hence why it would need to be subtle.

Basically, if you give your enemy a gun with the safety switch locked in place, and no bullets in the chamber, oh and by the way, he has to kill you to get those bullets, I'd say you're pretty well safe. Remember, this cycle is an anomaly in how well we are doing.

I get that, I just think it's less likely than the possibility that it's actually a device that directly serves Reaper purposes in some fashion. But, that doesnt preclude the possibility that it could be repurposed for organic purposes somehow. If Raistlin worked that concept into his theory (not that I'm saying he should), I would probably support it. 

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

Arian Dynas wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

Raistlin, I did read your theory when you first posted it, and it is very well laid out and articulated. The reason I cant get behind it is because it doesnt address the plot hole that the Reapers would allow the organics to build and possess an item that even has a remote chance of being used not only against them, but as a means to actually achieve total victory against them. 

They are overly prideful and arrogant, but they are not foolish or stupid.

I would almost go so far as to say that we can safely conclude that the Reapers knew about the Crucible long before we think they did, and that for one reason or another they are not at risk of being defeated through direct use of it, even if it is just missing a critical component that the organics arent yet aware of. 

Simplest explanation is that the Reapers WANT it built, as a method of forcing organics to waste time and resources, waste men in fruitless attempts to recover the Citadel (which they usually have a VERY firm grasp on from the get-go, remember, this cycle is NOT going according to plan AT ALL.) and that if it had an obvious design flaw or something to that respect, it could be uncovered and designed past, fixed, or disabled, hence why it would need to be subtle.

Basically, if you give your enemy a gun with the safety switch locked in place, and no bullets in the chamber, oh and by the way, he has to kill you to get those bullets, I'd say you're pretty well safe. Remember, this cycle is an anomaly in how well we are doing.

That is actually a very good point.

If the plans were planted by the reapers, they were planted long before they knew this Cycle would go completely out of control for them. What might be a completely save plan under normal circumstances, might have a small weakness under these extraordinary circumstances.

[UrgentArchengel]

@Arian

Well, wouldn't you just bash their head in with the gun? Lol, enough of me being a smarta**. It's a good point though.

[StElmo]

What if the cruciable is just a giant amplifier for indoctrination?

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

HellishFiend wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

Raistlin, I did read your theory when you first posted it, and it is very well laid out and articulated. The reason I cant get behind it is because it doesnt address the plot hole that the Reapers would allow the organics to build and possess an item that even has a remote chance of being used not only against them, but as a means to actually achieve total victory against them. 

They are overly prideful and arrogant, but they are not foolish or stupid.

I would almost go so far as to say that we can safely conclude that the Reapers knew about the Crucible long before we think they did, and that for one reason or another they are not at risk of being defeated through direct use of it, even if it is just missing a critical component that the organics arent yet aware of. 

Simplest explanation is that the Reapers WANT it built, as a method of forcing organics to waste time and resources, waste men in fruitless attempts to recover the Citadel (which they usually have a VERY firm grasp on from the get-go, remember, this cycle is NOT going according to plan AT ALL.) and that if it had an obvious design flaw or something to that respect, it could be uncovered and designed past, fixed, or disabled, hence why it would need to be subtle.

Basically, if you give your enemy a gun with the safety switch locked in place, and no bullets in the chamber, oh and by the way, he has to kill you to get those bullets, I'd say you're pretty well safe. Remember, this cycle is an anomaly in how well we are doing.

I get that, I just think it's less likely than the possibility that it's actually a device that directly serves Reaper purposes in some fashion. But, that doesnt preclude the possibility that it could be repurposed for organic purposes somehow. If Raistlin worked that concept into his theory (not that I'm saying he should), I would probably support it. 

The reason i dont think the device serves the Reapers in any fashion is their tenacity in defending the Citadel at Earth. There line is from everything we see as solid around the Citadel as anywhere else and they have clearly gathered a force with the intention of wiping out the united fleet completely at which point they would not need the Crucible.

[Arian Dynas]

UrgentArchengel wrote...

@Arian

Well, wouldn't you just bash their head in with the gun? Lol, enough of me being a smarta**. It's a good point though.

This metaphor is assuming they're pointing a gun at you, but being sporting enough to offer to let you shoot first. If you can.

[UrgentArchengel]

StElmo wrote...

What if the cruciable is just a giant amplifier for indoctrination?

Well, we're boned!

Joker: Cheese it!!!!

Crash lands on Gilligan's Planet.

[Rosewind]

Why are teachers so stupid......

[HellishFiend]

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

Raistlin, I did read your theory when you first posted it, and it is very well laid out and articulated. The reason I cant get behind it is because it doesnt address the plot hole that the Reapers would allow the organics to build and possess an item that even has a remote chance of being used not only against them, but as a means to actually achieve total victory against them. 

They are overly prideful and arrogant, but they are not foolish or stupid.

I would almost go so far as to say that we can safely conclude that the Reapers knew about the Crucible long before we think they did, and that for one reason or another they are not at risk of being defeated through direct use of it, even if it is just missing a critical component that the organics arent yet aware of. 

I see your point, but...

...I would argue that no matter what idea we come up with regarding the Crucible a plothole follows with it. Funnily enough it is often Reaper related and would require them to be foolish or stupid.

But fact is that the Crucible needs to work in some way or the battle at Earth and extension the war is lost. That is simple mathmatics using what we know, it is what everything tells us. The Crucible is the only X in this equation.

Not necessarily. I have faith that Bioware cound introduce a new element into the story without it feeling too much like a deux ex machina. Failing that, as I said in my above post, I think that the Crucible being a Reaper tool that can somehow be repurposed by the organics is a way of employing that "X factor" without leaving any plotholes or relying on Reaper stupidity. 

Aside from that, I dont think that failure to make use of the Crucible constitutes a total loss for the cycle. As Arian just pointed out, this cycle is not going according to plan, and that provides all sorts of exploitable opportunities (most of which we probably cant even imagine ourselves). 

[StElmo]

UrgentArchengel wrote...

StElmo wrote...

What if the cruciable is just a giant amplifier for indoctrination?

Well, we're boned!

Joker: Cheese it!!!!

Crash lands on Gilligan's Planet.

That would explain joker being a jerk and running off like a chump

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

StElmo wrote...

What if the cruciable is just a giant amplifier for indoctrination?

I have addressed this a hundred times. Why would the Reapers gather a fleet around the Citadel capable of smashing the united fleet apart once and for all although at heavy losses for them if they could simply allow them to capture the Citadel and laugh as they plug the Crucible in?

It is waste for the reapers to defend the Citadel if the weapon created is in their favor.

Also if it turned out to be a Reaper weapon then we litterally have no chance of winning. We are allready losing the fleet, turn a superweapon on us, even for just a moment before it is disabled again and we have lost.

Modifié par Raistlin Majare 1992, 13 juin 2012 - 06:53 .

[Arian Dynas]

Rosewind wrote...

Why are teachers so stupid......

Myeh?

[Turbo_J]

I still think Shepard is being used as a decoy. And I think Hackett got the idea because of Arrival and Sheps exposure to Rho.

EDIT: And I think Liara may be on board with it. She's way too willing to go along with this dud.

Anyone we may think is Indoctrinated may actually be trolling Shep to off balance the Reapers... except for TIM of corse. He's just crazy.

Modifié par Turbo_J, 13 juin 2012 - 06:58 .

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

HellishFiend wrote...

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

Raistlin, I did read your theory when you first posted it, and it is very well laid out and articulated. The reason I cant get behind it is because it doesnt address the plot hole that the Reapers would allow the organics to build and possess an item that even has a remote chance of being used not only against them, but as a means to actually achieve total victory against them. 

They are overly prideful and arrogant, but they are not foolish or stupid.

I would almost go so far as to say that we can safely conclude that the Reapers knew about the Crucible long before we think they did, and that for one reason or another they are not at risk of being defeated through direct use of it, even if it is just missing a critical component that the organics arent yet aware of. 

I see your point, but...

...I would argue that no matter what idea we come up with regarding the Crucible a plothole follows with it. Funnily enough it is often Reaper related and would require them to be foolish or stupid.

But fact is that the Crucible needs to work in some way or the battle at Earth and extension the war is lost. That is simple mathmatics using what we know, it is what everything tells us. The Crucible is the only X in this equation.

Not necessarily. I have faith that Bioware cound introduce a new element into the story without it feeling too much like a deux ex machina. Failing that, as I said in my above post, I think that the Crucible being a Reaper tool that can somehow be repurposed by the organics is a way of employing that "X factor" without leaving any plotholes or relying on Reaper stupidity. 

Aside from that, I dont think that failure to make use of the Crucible constitutes a total loss for the cycle. As Arian just pointed out, this cycle is not going according to plan, and that provides all sorts of exploitable opportunities (most of which we probably cant even imagine ourselves). 

You know that part about bypassing or repurposing the Crucible is part of why I mentioned that no matter wht the Crucible can generate massive amounts of Energy. Even if we lack a component taht energy might still be used somwehere else. I think i even have a bit mentioning that TIM might have found such a way and spent time on the Citadel preparing it.

But the Crucible not working will mean the cycle is lost. Practically every ship we have is at Earth and it is currently locked in a knife fight with the Reaper forces. There is not great tactic which can bring your out of a situation like that as it is essentially brute force vs brute force.

If we lose at Earth, we lose the cycle as there will be almost nothing left to fight the Reapers and considering the numbers we face, we need the Crucible.

[Jadebaby]

StElmo wrote...

UrgentArchengel wrote...

StElmo wrote...

What if the cruciable is just a giant amplifier for indoctrination?

Well, we're boned!

Joker: Cheese it!!!!

Crash lands on Gilligan's Planet.

That would explain joker being a jerk and running off like a chump

Unless you chose synthesis.. In which case it's like.. "Why you run for fellow cyborg!?"