55528 réponses à ce sujet

[Rosewind]

Arian Dynas wrote...

Rosewind wrote...

Why are teachers so stupid......

Myeh?

I have no clue thats why I asked .... I sware they right a commoent on your work before they read the rest of it.

[Turbo_J]

The Crucible plans may have been planted by Liara... good way to keep both TIM and the Reapers off balance.

And she seems to convincingly suck at being the Shadow Broker.

Modifié par Turbo_J, 13 juin 2012 - 07:04 .

[UrgentArchengel]

Joker crashes, and like Shepard he enters a dream...and apperantly he has a shared brain connection with Shepard...and can see and hear what he...shutting up now. Lol!

[HellishFiend]

Turbo_J wrote...

The Crucible plans may have been planted by Liara... good way to keep both TIM and the Reapers off balance.

And she seems to convincingly suck at being the Shadow Broker.

In order to do that she would have needed to remotely plant them at the archives, because Hackett didnt request her presence there until the plans had already been found, as far as I know. 

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

Turbo_J wrote...

The Crucible plans may have been planted by Liara... good way to keep both TIM and the Reapers off balance.

And she seems to convincingly suck at being the Shadow Broker.

Suck how?

It is limited how much you can do against the Reapers considering even the Shadow Broker has very little information on them. She has agents out monitoring them, but said agents are also easily lost in the ongoing.

If it was standard war, yes she would suck, but the reapers are not standard enemy and while information is power we have very little information on the Reapers. The way i see it she is doing what she can with what she has, but her options against the Reapers are limited.

+ It is quite clear from the messages we can see on the terminals that she is doing alot of behind the scenes stuff...among other things putting the information we use for upgrades throughout the game to use.

[Turbo_J]

What if the Citadel is the weapon in itself, that can be altered to do damage/disable at least shields and maybe affect the Indoctrination capabilities of the Reapers? What if the Reapers were tricked to moving it to Earth while at the same time thinking they were the ones luring the allied fleet into a kill zone?

[HellishFiend]

Turbo_J wrote...

What if the Citadel is the weapon in itself, that can be altered to do damage/disable at least shields and maybe affect the Indoctrination capabilities of the Reapers? What if the Reapers were tricked to moving it to Earth while at the same time thinking they were the ones luring the allied fleet into a kill zone?

Are you suggesting that TIM is actually a behind the scenes hero? 

[prettz]

Turbo_J wrote...

I still think Shepard is being used as a decoy. And I think Hackett got the idea because of Arrival and Sheps exposure to Rho.

EDIT: And I think Liara may be on board with it. She's way too willing to go along with this dud.

Anyone we may think is Indoctrinated may actually be trolling Shep to off balance the Reapers... except for TIM of corse. He's just crazy.

that kind of makes sense
epiceally if you take Andersons comment about how the Reapers brought all the races togeather to fight and then is corrected that Shepard was the one that brought them togeather.

[SackofCat]

HellishFiend wrote...

SackofCat wrote...

There are a lot of things that happen in the end. Some of those things contradict the IT. The ITists select only the pieces that correspond to their assertions and conveniently declares the rest either irrelevant or purposefully misleading.

I dont think that is true at all, and I resent the implication, to be quite honest. We address everything, and give all counterpoints fair weight. 

What exactly do you believe contradicts IT? Because it is more than likely a misunderstanding on your part. 

Looking at it objectively, what percent of the time, sound, words, actions, visual effects, etc. can be called evidence in favor of the IT? I did not mean to imply that the rest is proof against the IT. I am not happy that you resent the implication. I was only trying to be objective.

As for what contradicts the IT, I cannot sum that up very quickly (which is why asked my initial question) but I will try starting tomorrow.

regarding the point I was trying to make that you were unsure of, I have much to learn about how to use this forum (ie how to quote multiple people in one reply...if you can tell me, I would appreciate it). I will try to be more clear in the future.

Balance5050
We have not observed the effect of a supernova on a mass relay. As for whether a supernova would impact with less energy at a distance than an impact with a somewhat large asteroid, I cannot say without crunching some numbers that I don't have. If you have any basis for your measurement I would welcome it.

Arian,
I didn't miss those posts or those pictures. I believe I responded to both. Why do you think I am trying to " rip apart Illbountyhunter"? I thought we were having a level-headed argument. Do you believe I said something rude or inappropriate? Perhaps you can point it out and we can see if it was a misunderstanding. And it would be more accurate if you said "his haste".

Also, believe it or not, I, too, have some knowledge of psychology and it's history. I am familiar with Jungian psychology (much less so than most other schools, I admit). I know the basic concepts and the wiki is pretty bare-bones. I was asking which Jungian symbols or concepts correspond with which parts of the ending. I could probably find a few but I would be hard pressed to find one that relates to IT. I think there may have been a misunderstanding or miscommunication of the context I meant the statement you responded to ("if none of it is real, how do you know what parts are symbolic? Isn't it almost completely subjective?"). Under IT, I think it might be difficult to interpret the symbols since an alien agent is presumed to be acting on Shepard's subconscious.

Perhaps you were referencing Shepard being in a dream-like state?

Nevertheless, I appreciate you taking the time to clarify what you meant. It may not be easy for us to see eye-to-eye about the IT but that doesn't mean there is nothing that can be gained by trying. Please pardon the cheesy platitudes.

Turbo_J,
I assure you I am here only to discuss the validity of the evidence for the IT. There is no guise nor is there any veil. Curiosity is a big reason why I am here but not the only one. Another reason is that I have seen many different people claim many different things to be proof of the accuracy of the IT. Some of these things were inaccurate. I have tried discussing it with a few people without much success. I was, and am, not rude though I can be sarcastic (not about the IT or anything else in particular).

I would be glad to detail the particulars of my motivations if it will help people be more open and understanding. I can understand being defensive considering what some people have assumed about all of you (people that believe in the IT).

I do not troll. I would not have spent hours responding to people for no good reason. Look at the time between my first post and all subsequent posts. I have not taken a break. If you would like, I could demonstrate (not a threat just to prove it) that I can incite people quite easily and quickly. I have no desire to manipulate people in such a way.

I responded to HellishFiend in this post with regards to the offensiveness of the post you quoted. I should have either "the IT selects..." or "Many ITists select..." Again, I was considering how long the ending is and how many different little elements can be specified, a fraction of which have been used as evidence of IT. More broadly, a person can speculate about any element of a story (particularly a rich story with visuals, sounds, characters, gameplay, etc) in an infinite number of ways. I trying to speak objectively. If you still dispute this, I can prove it.

If I were looking to fight I would be doing a terrible job at it.

Gunslinger,
I am refraining from being sarcastic because of how easily someone might take offense at it.

Damn. I spent more than 2 hours longer than I intended and have little to show for it.

Maybe I will try something different tomorrow.

[Turbo_J]

HellishFiend wrote...

Turbo_J wrote...

The Crucible plans may have been planted by Liara... good way to keep both TIM and the Reapers off balance.

And she seems to convincingly suck at being the Shadow Broker.

In order to do that she would have needed to remotely plant them at the archives, because Hackett didnt request her presence there until the plans had already been found, as far as I know. 

I'm just tossing out perspectives. Shepard is a pon. Why chess in this chapter, anyway? Could be nothing.

London planted in the mind early by Traynor...

There are a lot of things that would not fit this line of possibility; or would take some thought to account for; like Vendetta.

As for the plans at Mars. Remember the datapad that comments on unknown scientists being alowed access to the archives "remember what happened last time?". I'm not sure if that was referring to something in the books or comics, but what if that 'incident' was when the plans were planted?

[HellishFiend]

@SackofCat, simply avoid making sweeping generalizations and agree to disagree where appropriate, and everything will be fine. I have no problem with you questioning IT or even disbelieving it entirely. After all, if IT is correct and Bioware didnt want it to be refutable, they would have already confirmed it or made it even more obvious within the game itself.

As for quoting multiple posts, there is no easy or quick way to do it. You need to do a lot of copy/pasting, and manually add the quote tags unless you copy/paste from a quote reply window.

[Turbo_J]

HellishFiend wrote...

Turbo_J wrote...

What if the Citadel is the weapon in itself, that can be altered to do damage/disable at least shields and maybe affect the Indoctrination capabilities of the Reapers? What if the Reapers were tricked to moving it to Earth while at the same time thinking they were the ones luring the allied fleet into a kill zone?

Are you suggesting that TIM is actually a behind the scenes hero? 

Not in even the most ludicrous sense of possibility. He's being played by both the Reapers and the Alliance.

Hackett is no dummy. He's also somewhat of a Renagon. This can be seen a little easier in ME 1 when he sends you to take out the Alliance trash; UNC The Negotiation.

Paragon - Hackett is using Shepard

Renegade - Harbinger is trying to gain the use of Shepard.

Like I said, just brainstorming out side of the box.

That last conversation on the Normandy with Hackett, Anderson and Shep just bugs me. It has for a long time but the nature of that itch wasn't clear. It's still not, but I could probably work it into a theory if I had the desire.

Modifié par Turbo_J, 13 juin 2012 - 07:31 .

[HellishFiend]

Turbo_J wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

Turbo_J wrote...

What if the Citadel is the weapon in itself, that can be altered to do damage/disable at least shields and maybe affect the Indoctrination capabilities of the Reapers? What if the Reapers were tricked to moving it to Earth while at the same time thinking they were the ones luring the allied fleet into a kill zone?

Are you suggesting that TIM is actually a behind the scenes hero? 

Not in even the most ludicrous sense of possibility. He's being played by both the Reapers and the Alliance.

Even if that turns out to be true, I do sincerely hope that TIM receives at least a token form of vindication, such as realizing that he is indoctrinated in the manner we see from Saren or "The Illusory Man" on the Citadel. He's too well-written a character to discard without giving him any positive closure at all. 

[Rosewind]

UrgentArchengel wrote...

Joker crashes, and like Shepard he enters a dream...and apperantly he has a shared brain connection with Shepard...and can see and hear what he...shutting up now. Lol!

Nice try! lol

[wsandista]

IT isn't real. The real ending involves Shepard exploding like a blood sausage and everyone playing Wasteland 2.

[HellishFiend]

wsandista wrote...

IT isn't real. The real ending involves Shepard exploding like a blood sausage and everyone playing Wasteland 2.

[Turbo_J]

HellishFiend wrote...

Turbo_J wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

Turbo_J wrote...

What if the Citadel is the weapon in itself, that can be altered to do damage/disable at least shields and maybe affect the Indoctrination capabilities of the Reapers? What if the Reapers were tricked to moving it to Earth while at the same time thinking they were the ones luring the allied fleet into a kill zone?

Are you suggesting that TIM is actually a behind the scenes hero? 

Not in even the most ludicrous sense of possibility. He's being played by both the Reapers and the Alliance.

Hackett is no dummy. He's also somewhat of a Renagon. This can be seen a
little easier in ME 1 when he sends you to take out the Alliance trash;
UNC The Negotiation.

Paragon - Hackett is using Shepard

Renegade - Harbinger is trying to gain the use of Shepard.

Like I said, just brainstorming out side of the box.

That
last conversation on the Normandy with Hackett, Anderson and Shep just
bugs me. It has for a long time but the nature of that itch wasn't
clear. It's still not, but I could probably work it into a theory if I
had the desire.

Even if that turns out to be true, I do sincerely hope that TIM receives at least a token form of vindication, such as realizing that he is indoctrinated in the manner we see from Saren or "The Illusory Man" on the Citadel. He's too well-written a character to discard without giving him any positive closure at all. 

I added to my original post.

I also had thoughts on TIM and posted them about 50 pages back.

I do think Sheps implants are a good thing now. They may be based on Reaper tech, but a few things in game and some of what you and others pointed out; I think they help more than hinder. A good visual of this is Shep surviving the poisoning attempt on Omega and then eventually becoming immune to sedation on the asteroid in Arrival.

TIM's implants may be a saving grace of sorts; possibly by design or by accident given some of the tech may have been sabotaged by the defecting Cerberus scientists. I posted on this just before... sorry bad with names; the large post concerning TIM may have set up a VI  to take over his body if he ever lost control himself. I like that line of thinking. It also may be that the implants simply produce a counter signal (given TIM figured out the Indoctrinated/husk control frequency) to prevent motive control over him... possibly even mental to some degree. That or he got suckered in a slightly different way than Saren. Regardless, I would like to see him play a slightly bigger roll than shooting himself in the head at the last possible moment. The Saren-Sovereign fight was great, but I don't really want to see it rehashed to end the trilogy.

Modifié par Turbo_J, 13 juin 2012 - 07:43 .

[Arian Dynas]

wsandista wrote...

IT isn't real. The real ending involves Shepard exploding like a blood sausage and everyone playing Wasteland 2.

[

Modifié par Arian Dynas, 13 juin 2012 - 07:45 .

[DadeLeviathan]

wsandista wrote...

IT isn't real. The real ending involves Shepard exploding like a blood sausage and everyone playing Wasteland 2.

Off to Fryan Bargo's we go!

[HellishFiend]

Turbo_J wrote...

I added to my original post.

I also had thoughts on TIM and posted them about 50 pages back.

I do think Sheps implants are a good thing now. They may be based on Reaper tech, but a few things in game and some of what you and others pointed out; I think they help more than hinder. A good visual of this is Shep surviving the poisoning attempt on Omega and then eventually becoming immune to sedation on the asteroid in Arrival.

TIM's implants may be a saving grace of sorts; possibly by design or by accident given some of the tech may have been sabotaged by the defecting Cerberus scientists. I posted on this just before... sorry bad with names; the large post concerning TIM may have set up a VI  to take over his body if he ever lost control himself. I like that line of thinking. It also may be that the implants simply produce a counter signal (given TIM figured out the Indoctrinated/husk control frequency) to prevent motive control over him... possibly even mental to some degree. That or he got suckered in a slightly different way than Saren. Regardless, I would like to see him play a slightly bigger roll than shooting himself in the head at the last possible moment. The Saren-Sovereign fight was great, but I don't really want to see it rehashed to end the trilogy.

The rehash of Saren's suicide was a clue for IT in my opinion. As much as I loved the line "I tried, Shepard", I dont think Bioware would end TIM's character on a cheap nod to ME1. I'm sure theyll come up with something good for him. 

[Turbo_J]

I think it should be Aria that takes him out if it comes to that.

[spotlessvoid]

HellishFiend wrote...

Turbo_J wrote...
Snip

The rehash of Saren's suicide was a clue for IT in my opinion. As much as I loved the line "I tried, Shepard", I dont think Bioware would end TIM's character on a cheap nod to ME1. I'm sure theyll come up with something good for him. 

Like ME4?

[UrgentArchengel]

Rosewind wrote...

UrgentArchengel wrote...

Joker crashes, and like Shepard he enters a dream...and apperantly he has a shared brain connection with Shepard...and can see and hear what he...shutting up now. Lol!

Nice try! lol

Sorry, forgot how to hyperlink.  D'oh!  Lol.

[Turbo_J]

spotlessvoid wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

Turbo_J wrote...
Snip

The rehash of Saren's suicide was a clue for IT in my opinion. As much as I loved the line "I tried, Shepard", I dont think Bioware would end TIM's character on a cheap nod to ME1. I'm sure theyll come up with something good for him. 

Like ME4?

I don't think they'll do that. It would be Cerberus overload. I think we've had enough of them. ME4 would probably be set 100-300 years into the future. It will take most surviving civilizations that long to even get a foothold on recovering from the war... Only technology would allow rebuilding to happen that fast.

[Makrys]

"Premature Ejaculation."

What the fu...

Modifié par Makrys, 13 juin 2012 - 08:02 .