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[BatmanTurian]

Turbo_J wrote...

KitsuneRisu wrote...

Hello everybody. I just finished Mass Effect 3 yesterday. I know. I'm late. Long story short, I avoided it due to peer pressure about the bad ending but always knew that I'd play it one day so therefore also avoided all spoilers, and taking advantage of a 50% off Origin sale, I've finally finished it. Game was great, ending not so much, it forced me to seek out explanations online which eventually led me to this thread.

Now with that out of the way, I've spent a good number of hours reading through a bunch of texts and thoughts on the subject, including this one, obviously, and the 'logical breakdown' doc.

Now, I'm not sure if this has been mentioned before, but I did run a very rudimentary search and didn't find anything, so forgive me if I've missed something in nearly 3000 pages of posts, but a strange 'connection' seemed to occur to me while I was considering the fact that the Normandy Crash itself might be part of Shepard's dream as well, and I would be remiss if I didn't share.

I recall during the game, there was more than one hint of a lucious tropical paradise.

When speaking with Jacob in that holographic thingamabobbie in London (I believe this is where it was) he mentions that after this is all over, you guys go and get a little drink in Rio.

Later on, during your heart to heart with Garrus, he says specifically, "We're going to retire somewhere warm and tropical".

These two lines sort of remained in my head, as if they were chosen specifically to create an image in both the player and Shepard's mind... because the place where the Normandy landed bore an image of something warm and tropical, and correct me if I'm just imagining things at this late hour, reminded me a lot like the wildlife of Rio.

Not to mention that rumor has it that the upcoming DLC will have a multiplayer map... in Rio.

It occurs to me that the whole Normandy crash might very well be what Shepard promised to do with his mates once they got out of it. It might just very well be a construct of his mind trying to create a perfect outcome for his friends with the assumption that he himself died. (He's dreaming, subconsicously 'realised' his own death, and therefore showed his friends in the outcome that he had just discussed prior to the mission.) And while I know that this idea of the construction isn't new, the concept of 'why a jungle paradise' might have roots in this idea.

Just noting that this might be intentional or not at all, and really also depends if this whole hallucination idea actually pans out... but if it isn't, it's a pretty interesting coincidence considering their choice of words and subtle, subconscious imagery.

Or perhaps, I am thinking too much. =)

You are not imagining things. I pointed this out a few hundred pages ago and it was kind of brushed off. If you romance Liara, she says something similar. I had asked if the other LI's do it and the consensus was no. I think there are 6 references to a tropical paradise, but I'm still working on that game gathering dialog and I'm no where near where these talks take place; the last third of the game. Most of the early references are a little general, but all represent hope.

Some that I can recall off the top of my head

Tuchanka; Bakara

'And the color green. I thought plant life was extinct here.'
'What you see is hope, all that's left on Tuchanka. It was a beautiful place once and hopefully will be again.'

Rannoch

Can't recall dialog but Tali talking about her ancestors spreading the seeds that covered the land in beauty.

Again; hope.

They get more specific with Liara and with Jacob and Garrus. Wrex; if alive, also mentions getting a new planet.

Very good catch for a first run, I have to say. I played through 5 times before seeing the trend, but the Liara conversation always made me wonder about the crash scene.

I still think the crash scene is on Zorya, which makes it even more rediculous since you have to go through two relays and go ftl for a while to even get there. Making it that rediculous to get there is a point towards IT.

[munnellyladt]

BatmanTurian wrote...

munnellyladt wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

munnellyladt wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

munnellyladt wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

Arashi08 wrote...
As do I!  I believe I just found my headcanon.  glad I could contribute

Glad i could help.

Though to continue this trian of thought a bit before I head to bed.

Ever since I learned that the Citadel would eb involved in the final battle I have been dead certain it would have something to do with the fact that the Citadel was a massive relay. Either as a cannon, or a bomb and now as the function it was always intended to full fill, a link to Dark Space. In what capacity that would work i dont know and still dont, but it is the most logical thing to to use the Citadel for.

We also know the Crucible can generate unquantifiable levels of energy, possibly enough to activate the largest relay in the galaxy?

But the most interesting thing i just thought of is how traveling through the Citadel Relay would mimic the endings of the two last games in which we also travelled through a uniquie relay to reach our final destination in the fight.

In ME1 it was the Conduit, the Prothean build Relay linking to the Citadel.

IN ME2 it was the Omega-4 relay linking to the Collector base.

In that regard it could make sense to send us through the Citadel Relay to end ME3, going to Dark Space, to the heart of where the Reapers came from to end them once and for all.

What if the Reaper base isn't actually in Dark Space? What if the Citadel Relay takes us all the way to Andromeda? ME4 could take place there... a whole new galaxy to explore with new aliens to have first contact wars with.

And what if they had their own citadel and had no idea Reapers had been harvesting them too for millions of years? Lots of epic story potential there.

Thats just thinking way too much.

it would be great but that is not likely to happen.
me4 is more likely to be a prolouge like the krogan rebellions,the morning war or the first contact war,but nobody really knows.
But maybe the citedel does take us to where the reapers are from and then blow them out of existance and have a final boss fight against harbinger,

That would be epic
n

Prologues are boring. We all know what already happens. You want to know what a prologue video game is like, read a history book and then watch the movie Titanic.

I'd rather they continue into the future and go to the Andromeda Galaxy.

Iknow but what else are bioware going to do?
with the reapers destroyed or whatever what else is there?
besides prolouges aren't that bad,gears of war is doing one even after 3 was supposed to be the end.

As I have said before multiple, times, why the hell would they? They have a kickass setting right now, the Krogan are slowly becoming a major power, the Geth and Quarians are involved in Citadel politics again, as are the Batarians, who are in the process of reforming their government, Humanity has just made itself the biggest collection of goddamn heroes in the galaxy, the Salarians and Asari are losing political clout since Dalatrass Linron bowed out of the war in cowardice and it's been discovered the Asari were sitting on Prothean tech this whole time, the entire galaxy is in uproar and political upheval, Cerberus, while wounded with the loss of their headquarters and chief assassin, remains a credible threat, and no one ever said the Reapers would be completely wiped out by ME4, merely that the tables are turned.

A setting ripe for a new spectre.

Yea,but theres too many plottwists,like maybe you didn't cure the genophage or you let the quarians or geth die,theres just too many variables.

well, obviously they didn't care about player choices before since the council was cloned if you didn't saave them and Udina was made Human council member even if you chose Anderson. Some of the canon is whatever they make it. We don't make all of it.

Sorry but were getting off topic.
we don't want to get this thread locked.
so we should just drop this conversation and go back to what we are supposed to be talking about.

[estebanus]

UrgedDuke wrote...

wow you guys are trying so hard to get that thread locked

We're giving Seival what s/he deserves for creating such an abomination.

Modifié par estebanus, 13 juin 2012 - 11:23 .

[BatmanTurian]

Arian Dynas wrote...

A new galaxy? No way.

A new relay? Yessss. Remember, we've only actually explored roughly 1% of the stars in the Milky Way by this point, and the council prohibits activating dormant mass relays unless we know where they go.

Well, the Reaper Invasion could have opened a few up.

Excellent time to be a colonist.

Ah yeah i forgot all of the galaxy hadn't been explored. There's plenty more to see, plus it looks like the Salarians might uplift the Yahg to protect themselves from the Krogan.

Modifié par BatmanTurian, 13 juin 2012 - 11:24 .

[TJBartlemus]

Arian Dynas wrote...

A new galaxy? No way.

A new relay? Yessss. Remember, we've only actually explored roughly 1% of the stars in the Milky Way by this point, and the council prohibits activating dormant mass relays unless we know where they go.

Well, the Reaper Invasion could have opened a few up.

Excellent time to be a colonist.

Yeah hasn't anyone noticed on the galaxy map near the end that there are Reaper inhabited icons in the middle of nowhere with no relay? Maybe for future dlc? Or decoration?

[Turbo_J]

BatmanTurian wrote...

Turbo_J wrote...

KitsuneRisu wrote...

Hello everybody. I just finished Mass Effect 3 yesterday. I know. I'm late. Long story short, I avoided it due to peer pressure about the bad ending but always knew that I'd play it one day so therefore also avoided all spoilers, and taking advantage of a 50% off Origin sale, I've finally finished it. Game was great, ending not so much, it forced me to seek out explanations online which eventually led me to this thread.

Now with that out of the way, I've spent a good number of hours reading through a bunch of texts and thoughts on the subject, including this one, obviously, and the 'logical breakdown' doc.

Now, I'm not sure if this has been mentioned before, but I did run a very rudimentary search and didn't find anything, so forgive me if I've missed something in nearly 3000 pages of posts, but a strange 'connection' seemed to occur to me while I was considering the fact that the Normandy Crash itself might be part of Shepard's dream as well, and I would be remiss if I didn't share.

I recall during the game, there was more than one hint of a lucious tropical paradise.

When speaking with Jacob in that holographic thingamabobbie in London (I believe this is where it was) he mentions that after this is all over, you guys go and get a little drink in Rio.

Later on, during your heart to heart with Garrus, he says specifically, "We're going to retire somewhere warm and tropical".

These two lines sort of remained in my head, as if they were chosen specifically to create an image in both the player and Shepard's mind... because the place where the Normandy landed bore an image of something warm and tropical, and correct me if I'm just imagining things at this late hour, reminded me a lot like the wildlife of Rio.

Not to mention that rumor has it that the upcoming DLC will have a multiplayer map... in Rio.

It occurs to me that the whole Normandy crash might very well be what Shepard promised to do with his mates once they got out of it. It might just very well be a construct of his mind trying to create a perfect outcome for his friends with the assumption that he himself died. (He's dreaming, subconsicously 'realised' his own death, and therefore showed his friends in the outcome that he had just discussed prior to the mission.) And while I know that this idea of the construction isn't new, the concept of 'why a jungle paradise' might have roots in this idea.

Just noting that this might be intentional or not at all, and really also depends if this whole hallucination idea actually pans out... but if it isn't, it's a pretty interesting coincidence considering their choice of words and subtle, subconscious imagery.

Or perhaps, I am thinking too much. =)

You are not imagining things. I pointed this out a few hundred pages ago and it was kind of brushed off. If you romance Liara, she says something similar. I had asked if the other LI's do it and the consensus was no. I think there are 6 references to a tropical paradise, but I'm still working on that game gathering dialog and I'm no where near where these talks take place; the last third of the game. Most of the early references are a little general, but all represent hope.

Some that I can recall off the top of my head

Tuchanka; Bakara

'And the color green. I thought plant life was extinct here.'
'What you see is hope, all that's left on Tuchanka. It was a beautiful place once and hopefully will be again.'

Rannoch

Can't recall dialog but Tali talking about her ancestors spreading the seeds that covered the land in beauty.

Again; hope.

They get more specific with Liara and with Jacob and Garrus. Wrex; if alive, also mentions getting a new planet.

Very good catch for a first run, I have to say. I played through 5 times before seeing the trend, but the Liara conversation always made me wonder about the crash scene.

I still think the crash scene is on Zorya, which makes it even more rediculous since you have to go through two relays and go ftl for a while to even get there. Making it that rediculous to get there is a point towards IT.

It's simpley a Tropical place that shepard has been too. It's a memory to draw from and thus apply to the hope of a future for his/her friends, nothing more.

Modifié par Turbo_J, 13 juin 2012 - 11:26 .

[BatmanTurian]

munnellyladt wrote...


Sorry but were getting off topic.
we don't want to get this thread locked.
so we should just drop this conversation and go back to what we are supposed to be talking about.

it's not off-topic, it's about after the ending. off-topic would be spiderman or something.

[BatmanTurian]

Turbo_J wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

Turbo_J wrote...

KitsuneRisu wrote...

Hello everybody. I just finished Mass Effect 3 yesterday. I know. I'm late. Long story short, I avoided it due to peer pressure about the bad ending but always knew that I'd play it one day so therefore also avoided all spoilers, and taking advantage of a 50% off Origin sale, I've finally finished it. Game was great, ending not so much, it forced me to seek out explanations online which eventually led me to this thread.

Now with that out of the way, I've spent a good number of hours reading through a bunch of texts and thoughts on the subject, including this one, obviously, and the 'logical breakdown' doc.

Now, I'm not sure if this has been mentioned before, but I did run a very rudimentary search and didn't find anything, so forgive me if I've missed something in nearly 3000 pages of posts, but a strange 'connection' seemed to occur to me while I was considering the fact that the Normandy Crash itself might be part of Shepard's dream as well, and I would be remiss if I didn't share.

I recall during the game, there was more than one hint of a lucious tropical paradise.

When speaking with Jacob in that holographic thingamabobbie in London (I believe this is where it was) he mentions that after this is all over, you guys go and get a little drink in Rio.

Later on, during your heart to heart with Garrus, he says specifically, "We're going to retire somewhere warm and tropical".

These two lines sort of remained in my head, as if they were chosen specifically to create an image in both the player and Shepard's mind... because the place where the Normandy landed bore an image of something warm and tropical, and correct me if I'm just imagining things at this late hour, reminded me a lot like the wildlife of Rio.

Not to mention that rumor has it that the upcoming DLC will have a multiplayer map... in Rio.

It occurs to me that the whole Normandy crash might very well be what Shepard promised to do with his mates once they got out of it. It might just very well be a construct of his mind trying to create a perfect outcome for his friends with the assumption that he himself died. (He's dreaming, subconsicously 'realised' his own death, and therefore showed his friends in the outcome that he had just discussed prior to the mission.) And while I know that this idea of the construction isn't new, the concept of 'why a jungle paradise' might have roots in this idea.

Just noting that this might be intentional or not at all, and really also depends if this whole hallucination idea actually pans out... but if it isn't, it's a pretty interesting coincidence considering their choice of words and subtle, subconscious imagery.

Or perhaps, I am thinking too much. =)

You are not imagining things. I pointed this out a few hundred pages ago and it was kind of brushed off. If you romance Liara, she says something similar. I had asked if the other LI's do it and the consensus was no. I think there are 6 references to a tropical paradise, but I'm still working on that game gathering dialog and I'm no where near where these talks take place; the last third of the game. Most of the early references are a little general, but all represent hope.

Some that I can recall off the top of my head

Tuchanka; Bakara

'And the color green. I thought plant life was extinct here.'
'What you see is hope, all that's left on Tuchanka. It was a beautiful place once and hopefully will be again.'

Rannoch

Can't recall dialog but Tali talking about her ancestors spreading the seeds that covered the land in beauty.

Again; hope.

They get more specific with Liara and with Jacob and Garrus. Wrex; if alive, also mentions getting a new planet.

Very good catch for a first run, I have to say. I played through 5 times before seeing the trend, but the Liara conversation always made me wonder about the crash scene.

I still think the crash scene is on Zorya, which makes it even more rediculous since you have to go through two relays and go ftl for a while to even get there. Making it that rediculous to get there is a point towards IT.

It's simpley a Tropical place that shepard has been too. It's a memory to apply to the hope of a future for his/her friends, nothing more.

The two places corespond, yes, which is what I mean. It is from Shep's memory and I think it's Zorya from Zaeed's Loyalty mission and the writers made it Zorya to hint further that it's unrealistic that they could have gotten there.

[KitsuneRisu]

Turbo_J wrote...

You are not imagining things. I pointed this out a few hundred pages ago and it was kind of brushed off. If you romance Liara, she says something similar. I had asked if the other LI's do it and the consensus was no. I think there are 6 references to a tropical paradise, but I'm still working on that game gathering dialog and I'm no where near where these talks take place; the last third of the game. Most of the early references are a little general, but all represent hope.

Some that I can recall off the top of my head

Tuchanka; Bakara

'And the color green. I thought plant life was extinct here.'
'What you see is hope, all that's left on Tuchanka. It was a beautiful place once and hopefully will be again.'

Rannoch

Can't recall dialog but Tali talking about her ancestors spreading the seeds that covered the land in beauty.

Again; hope.

They get more specific with Liara and with Jacob and Garrus. Wrex; if alive, also mentions getting a new planet.

Very good catch for a first run, I have to say. I played through 5 times before seeing the trend, but the Liara conversation always made me wonder about the crash scene.

Well, it's nice to see someone agrees!

Many things bothered me, and now that I'm reminded again, you're absolutely right. The theme of plants and green and the idea of it representing 'hope' is sublty reinforced throughout the game. I had all but forgotten about the actual dialogue about Tuchanka, but you've just made it clear that more than the times I caught it has the idea come up.

But more than hope, I might propose 'new beginnings' as a secondary unifying theme? The way I now see it is that with new green on Tuchanka, there's a new beginning. Wrex wants a new planet. The seeding of Rannoch and seeing the planet like that represented the start. The first thing they do when they end the war would be to retire to a lush green paradise, a 'new beginning' again.

And the imagery of the crash, the whole 'adam and eve' thing, also represents new beginnings thematically.

This is just my proposal.

I think it also lends creedence to why all endings were the same no matter what you chose in the sense that it caused the Normandy Crash. Because in Shepard's mind, no matter what he chooses, no matter how far he falls to reaper influence (or otherwise), there is one thing that he values above everything else, which is definitely a deep rooted part of his central character - his friends. Naturally, disregarding everything else, he would imagine a scenario where everyone he loved and treasured made it out somehow and landed on the last image of 'hope' and 'new beginnings' in his mind - a lush, tropical paradise.

Maybe.

I dunno. =D

EDIT:

Man you guys go way too fast.

I don't know if it's supposed to be any specific planet or not, but I don't think it matters. Most likely it was simply drawing on Shepard's image of ANY lush, green scape, specifically Rio, since that name has come up. The reason why I think it's more likely based on somewhere on Earth is because Shepard, being an Earth-man, would think of an Earth place. It's even LESS likely that it's Earth that the Normandy landed on, and I can't help but think that the place they ended up was truly somewhat incredibly earth-like. (It wasn't though, due to two moons and other such things, but the idea is that mostly it was fabricated out of Shep's memory of EARTH, a place where HE feels comfortable and HE feels is the 'ultimate paradise'.

Modifié par KitsuneRisu, 13 juin 2012 - 11:32 .

[UrgentArchengel]

estebanus wrote...

UrgedDuke wrote...

wow you guys are trying so hard to get that thread locked

We're giving Seival what s/he deserves for creating such an abomination.

Good luck, and kick some a** while your at it!

[munnellyladt]

BatmanTurian wrote...

munnellyladt wrote...


Sorry but were getting off topic.
we don't want to get this thread locked.
so we should just drop this conversation and go back to what we are supposed to be talking about.

it's not off-topic, it's about after the ending. off-topic would be spiderman or something.

Oh yea sorry just thought that we were disscusing plans for me4 and not talking about the ending.

[estebanus]

UrgentArchengel wrote...

estebanus wrote...

UrgedDuke wrote...

wow you guys are trying so hard to get that thread locked

We're giving Seival what s/he deserves for creating such an abomination.

Good luck, and kick some a** while your at it!

No problem, bro!

After all, we've got spiderman on our side! Who could withstand such odds?

[BatmanTurian]

KitsuneRisu wrote...

Turbo_J wrote...

You are not imagining things. I pointed this out a few hundred pages ago and it was kind of brushed off. If you romance Liara, she says something similar. I had asked if the other LI's do it and the consensus was no. I think there are 6 references to a tropical paradise, but I'm still working on that game gathering dialog and I'm no where near where these talks take place; the last third of the game. Most of the early references are a little general, but all represent hope.

Some that I can recall off the top of my head

Tuchanka; Bakara

'And the color green. I thought plant life was extinct here.'
'What you see is hope, all that's left on Tuchanka. It was a beautiful place once and hopefully will be again.'

Rannoch

Can't recall dialog but Tali talking about her ancestors spreading the seeds that covered the land in beauty.

Again; hope.

They get more specific with Liara and with Jacob and Garrus. Wrex; if alive, also mentions getting a new planet.

Very good catch for a first run, I have to say. I played through 5 times before seeing the trend, but the Liara conversation always made me wonder about the crash scene.

Well, it's nice to see someone agrees!

Many things bothered me, and now that I'm reminded again, you're absolutely right. The theme of plants and green and the idea of it representing 'hope' is sublty reinforced throughout the game. I had all but forgotten about the actual dialogue about Tuchanka, but you've just made it clear that more than the times I caught it has the idea come up.

But more than hope, I might propose 'new beginnings' as a secondary unifying theme? The way I now see it is that with new green on Tuchanka, there's a new beginning. Wrex wants a new planet. The seeding of Rannoch and seeing the planet like that represented the start. The first thing they do when they end the war would be to retire to a lush green paradise, a 'new beginning' again.

And the imagery of the crash, the whole 'adam and eve' thing, also represents new beginnings thematically.

This is just my proposal.

I think it also lends creedence to why all endings were the same no matter what you chose in the sense that it caused the Normandy Crash. Because in Shepard's mind, no matter what he chooses, no matter how far he falls to reaper influence (or otherwise), there is one thing that he values above everything else, which is definitely a deep rooted part of his central character - his friends. Naturally, disregarding everything else, he would imagine a scenario where everyone he loved and treasured made it out somehow and landed on the last image of 'hope' and 'new beginnings' in his mind - a lush, tropical paradise.

Maybe.

I dunno. =D

EDIT:

Man you guys go way too fast.

I don't know if it's supposed to be any specific planet or not, but I don't think it matters. Most likely it was simply drawing on Shepard's image of ANY lush, green scape, specifically Rio, since that name has come up. The reason why I think it's more likely based on somewhere on Earth is because Shepard, being an Earth-man, would think of an Earth place. It's even LESS likely that it's Earth that the Normandy landed on, and I can't help but think that the place they ended up was truly somewhat incredibly earth-like. (It wasn't though, due to two moons and other such things, but the idea is that mostly it was fabricated out of Shep's memory of EARTH, a place where HE feels comfortable and HE feels is the 'ultimate paradise'.

We came to a concensus based on this image:



that it might be a bit of Zorya and a bit of Virmire But I'm convinced it's Zorya. It's not Earth because Earth doesn't have a planet and a moon in its sky like that, Zorya does. Oh look, Stargazer is Zorya in an ice age. Buzz and that kid must be freakin' cold.

Modifié par BatmanTurian, 13 juin 2012 - 11:43 .

[Arian Dynas]

If it's even tangientally related to Mass Effect, it's on topic in this thread.

[EpyonX3]

BatmanTurian wrote...

*Snip*

that it might be a bit of Zorya and a bit of Virmire But I'm convinced it's Zorya. It's not Earth because Earth doesn't have a planet and a moon in it's sky like that, Zorya does.

I never understood hy people thought this was earth. One there are two celestial bodies in the sky and two if it were earth, there'd be debris falling from the sky from all the dead reaper and fleet parts.

If it is Zorya then they're in luck because that planet does have some kind of technology they can live off of. Also, let's not forget quantum communication. They can talk to any entangled device as long as it's powered. I remember the normandy having this capability.

[EpyonX3]

Arian Dynas wrote...

If it's even tangientally related to Mass Effect, it's on topic in this thread.

How's your laptop?

[Turbo_J]

It could never be earth. Shep reprieved earth as destroyed. Even if they never really made it to London, or if all of London was an illusion, look what Shep made it look like. Cortez: 'Have a look for yourself' in the shuttle... Always found that odd. Out of place.

Anyway, I think a mix of tropical places that Shep has been to fits, but so does Zorya. I loaded ME2 and went there after my second play through... However, if you did overloard, that planet somewhat fits as well. No space cows that I could see in the illusion though.

Wrex mentions that Shepard needs a new planet in London. That's what I was referring to... not just the Krogan needs.

Making it apear like Zorya or Aite should aid people in breaking through the illusion, but sadly it does not for many.

Modifié par Turbo_J, 13 juin 2012 - 11:49 .

[deltacypresss]

Hey guys, i've been reading this thread on my iphone during lunch breaks and before going to sleep everynight since around page 300 of the original. Thought maybe i should say hi so i don't feel like such a creep.

for me It isn't so much about the evidence, which is compelling but not conclusive imo, but what happens to the the story with It as opposed to the literalist interpretation. The only downside, again imo, is the lack of a conclusion. Although earlier on i would have argued that IT didn't require any DLC or the EC and could stand on its own as a conclusion.


also.

estebanus wrote...

UrgedDuke wrote...

wow you guys are trying so hard to get that thread locked

We're giving Seival what s/he deserves for creating such an abomination.

 wtf... i laughed till i cried.

[KitsuneRisu]

BatmanTurian wrote...

KitsuneRisu wrote...

Turbo_J wrote...

You are not imagining things. I pointed this out a few hundred pages ago and it was kind of brushed off. If you romance Liara, she says something similar. I had asked if the other LI's do it and the consensus was no. I think there are 6 references to a tropical paradise, but I'm still working on that game gathering dialog and I'm no where near where these talks take place; the last third of the game. Most of the early references are a little general, but all represent hope.

Some that I can recall off the top of my head

Tuchanka; Bakara

'And the color green. I thought plant life was extinct here.'
'What you see is hope, all that's left on Tuchanka. It was a beautiful place once and hopefully will be again.'

Rannoch

Can't recall dialog but Tali talking about her ancestors spreading the seeds that covered the land in beauty.

Again; hope.

They get more specific with Liara and with Jacob and Garrus. Wrex; if alive, also mentions getting a new planet.

Very good catch for a first run, I have to say. I played through 5 times before seeing the trend, but the Liara conversation always made me wonder about the crash scene.

Well, it's nice to see someone agrees!

Many things bothered me, and now that I'm reminded again, you're absolutely right. The theme of plants and green and the idea of it representing 'hope' is sublty reinforced throughout the game. I had all but forgotten about the actual dialogue about Tuchanka, but you've just made it clear that more than the times I caught it has the idea come up.

But more than hope, I might propose 'new beginnings' as a secondary unifying theme? The way I now see it is that with new green on Tuchanka, there's a new beginning. Wrex wants a new planet. The seeding of Rannoch and seeing the planet like that represented the start. The first thing they do when they end the war would be to retire to a lush green paradise, a 'new beginning' again.

And the imagery of the crash, the whole 'adam and eve' thing, also represents new beginnings thematically.

This is just my proposal.

I think it also lends creedence to why all endings were the same no matter what you chose in the sense that it caused the Normandy Crash. Because in Shepard's mind, no matter what he chooses, no matter how far he falls to reaper influence (or otherwise), there is one thing that he values above everything else, which is definitely a deep rooted part of his central character - his friends. Naturally, disregarding everything else, he would imagine a scenario where everyone he loved and treasured made it out somehow and landed on the last image of 'hope' and 'new beginnings' in his mind - a lush, tropical paradise.

Maybe.

I dunno. =D

EDIT:

Man you guys go way too fast.

I don't know if it's supposed to be any specific planet or not, but I don't think it matters. Most likely it was simply drawing on Shepard's image of ANY lush, green scape, specifically Rio, since that name has come up. The reason why I think it's more likely based on somewhere on Earth is because Shepard, being an Earth-man, would think of an Earth place. It's even LESS likely that it's Earth that the Normandy landed on, and I can't help but think that the place they ended up was truly somewhat incredibly earth-like. (It wasn't though, due to two moons and other such things, but the idea is that mostly it was fabricated out of Shep's memory of EARTH, a place where HE feels comfortable and HE feels is the 'ultimate paradise'.

We came to a concensus based on this image:



that it might be a bit of Zorya and a bit of Virmire But I'm convinced it's Zorya. It's not Earth because Earth doesn't have a planet and a moon in it's sky like that, Zorya does.

Ooh, nice image. Well that's pretty clear!

Although, like I said, I'm not saying it's Earth, per se.

What I'm saying is that it might be a combination of everything, past experiences and all that, but wouldn't it make more sense for an Earthling to connect to something close to their heart rather than some planet they've been to far far away for just one mission?

And no, before you correct me again, I'm NOT arguing that it IS Earth. I'm NOT arguing that it isn't Zorya/Virmire. I'm saying that in his state of half-death dream indoctrinated bass-ackwardness, he might have formed a dream-planet out of many images in his subconscious memory. It isn't any one single planet. It represents a concept, which is stronger than it being 'Earth' or 'Zorya'. And isn't that what the game is all about? =)

Well in any case, I just wanted to share. So, thanks for listening!

Peace out.

[BatmanTurian]

EpyonX3 wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

*Snip*

that it might be a bit of Zorya and a bit of Virmire But I'm convinced it's Zorya. It's not Earth because Earth doesn't have a planet and a moon in it's sky like that, Zorya does.

I never understood hy people thought this was earth. One there are two celestial bodies in the sky and two if it were earth, there'd be debris falling from the sky from all the dead reaper and fleet parts.

If it is Zorya then they're in luck because that planet does have some kind of technology they can live off of. Also, let's not forget quantum communication. They can talk to any entangled device as long as it's powered. I remember the normandy having this capability.

Yeah, at face value part of the colony is there and they could fix the normandy with parts and some omnigel, and the communicators. Problem is that Zorya is a hayfever sufferer's nightmare and i think the fauna was nasty too if I remember correctly. But at least they'll have something to eat, whether rations or wild Varren from the Blue Suns that used to be there.

[Arian Dynas]

EpyonX3 wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

If it's even tangientally related to Mass Effect, it's on topic in this thread.

How's your laptop?

*sigh* the box to send it in arrived today.

In my wildest dreams I might be indescribably lucky and have it back, fan replaced and much the same as ever by friday, though my father doesn't think so.

Can't hurt to dream.

[estebanus]

deltacypresss wrote...

estebanus wrote...

UrgedDuke wrote...

wow you guys are trying so hard to get that thread locked

We're giving Seival what s/he deserves for creating such an abomination.

 wtf... i laughed till i cried.

It's normal in spiderman threads, bro! It's normal...

[paxxton]

Arian Dynas wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

If it's even tangientally related to Mass Effect, it's on topic in this thread.

How's your laptop?

*sigh* the box to send it in arrived today.

In my wildest dreams I might be indescribably lucky and have it back, fan replaced and much the same as ever by friday, though my father doesn't think so.

Can't hurt to dream.

2 days? Fast.

[EpyonX3]

Arian Dynas wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

If it's even tangientally related to Mass Effect, it's on topic in this thread.

How's your laptop?

*sigh* the box to send it in arrived today.

In my wildest dreams I might be indescribably lucky and have it back, fan replaced and much the same as ever by friday, though my father doesn't think so.

Can't hurt to dream.

Where's it shipping to? Good luck!

[Arian Dynas]

EpyonX3 wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

If it's even tangientally related to Mass Effect, it's on topic in this thread.

How's your laptop?

*sigh* the box to send it in arrived today.

In my wildest dreams I might be indescribably lucky and have it back, fan replaced and much the same as ever by friday, though my father doesn't think so.

Can't hurt to dream.

Where's it shipping to? Good luck!

Well the box shipped in from Seattle, which is where it has to go. But I leave for my brother's wedding on Saturday.