55528 réponses à ce sujet

[HellishFiend]

Gernbuster wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

Trauma3x wrote...

Its probably been mentioned but could the "tech" cerberus used to resurrect Shep with, have a little taint of indoctrination (i.e. Reaper tech)?

Impossible to be sure, but the current common belief is that the tech within Shepard is not responsible for any of the Indoctrination effects. 

Btw can you remember my listen to the Reaper voices= renegade?
 implants get stronger and there is more and similarity to Paul Greyson or TIM in the dream sequenz, if you do so

Not sure I recall that... can you be more specific? Sounds interesting. 

[TJBartlemus]

ZerebusPrime wrote...

3. If the London conduit really is a massive "lure them in" indoctrination device, it would finally explain why everyone is fixated on getting to London.  The conduit/device is subtly calling everyone towards it.

I seriously hope it is cause that would explain so much. Currently I'm working on a theory on Priority Earth in support of IT and the main point is that the closer you get to it the more it affects you. This would explain the apartment looking similar because it is from his mind.

I could post what I have so far, but it still needs some work.

[paxxton]

Gernbuster wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

Trauma3x wrote...

Its probably been mentioned but could the "tech" cerberus used to resurrect Shep with, have a little taint of indoctrination (i.e. Reaper tech)?

Impossible to be sure, but the current common belief is that the tech within Shepard is not responsible for any of the Indoctrination effects. 

Btw can you remember my listen to the Reaper voices= renegade?
 implants get stronger and there is more and similarity to Paul Greyson or TIM in the dream sequenz, if you do so

I always heal the scars because they look awful.

Modifié par paxxton, 15 juin 2012 - 12:00 .

[TJBartlemus]

HellishFiend wrote...

TJBartlemus wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

Sorry. The beam at the end is feeding into the Citadel tower and is oriented away from Earth, not towards it. So it isnt the Conduit beam, to be sure.

As for the odd sound coming from the beam, I'm not sure what to make of it, to be honest. 

Then what happened to the beam? It would make more sense that the Crucible is more like a lens and uses dark energy to redirect the energy to suit which decision you choose. Otherwise then the Crucible is making all the energy? It has to come from somewhere...

Dont know, but we're operating under the assumption that those events arent actually taking place, so I havent put a lot of thought into it. 

Well maybe we should. Better to cover all the possibilities than none of them.

[BatmanTurian]

ZerebusPrime wrote...

 So I completed my run through ME2.  The only relevant piece of information I have to discuss that has not already been discussed to death comes from the Aequitas Mission.  Some of you may recall that Aequitas was supposed to be some sort of major hint given to us before the release of ME3... or it may have been a red herring (and I tend to think that the red herring is a literal clue, given the deceptive nature of the ending of the game).  I was not privy to those hints at the time nor do I know where to find them now, so I'll be dependent on someone else to provide answers to any questions that might be raised about them.

Anyway, the Aequitas Mission centers around an abandoned mine where a mining team unearthed a Reaper indoctrination and huskification device.  In the early stages of the mission you find memos from the miners that detail their deterioration.  In particular:

A Strange Glow
Cooper and Joregenzen say they saw that damned alien thing glowing and hell if I'm going near it to prove them wrong. I don't get paid enough to expose myself to weird alien artifacts. I have to admit, though...that's an awful pretty sound coming from that back room. 

And then...

Something's Different
Cooper, Joregenzen, and them ain't doing so well. Not feeling so good myself either. Stay near the machine, feel better. Not sure I want to let them Elanus folk take it. Think it should stay right here with us. 

You can find a picture of the device on the link I provided.  Suffice to say that it's primarily a glowing orb.

So from this we learn that...

1. A powerful Reaper indoctrination and huskification device emits blue light/energy.

2. Once you are sufficiently exposed to that signal, you are drawn into the blue light (please, no Skyline jokes).

3. After some point if you try to leave the light you will become physically ill, so powerful is its pull.

4. Even if you try to avoid contact, the signal eventually draws you in closer for a look.

We can apply these lessons to the Conduit Run of ME3 and the final choices sequence like so:

1.  The beam to the Citadel oh so bright blue.  It's also a much, much larger and more powerful mechanism than the Aequitas device (or the Arrival device).  In fact, it's such a point of fixation that should Shepard try not to run towards it, he collapses for no good reason.  IIRC, there was a memo warning that people who approach the beam do not come back the same, so the so called transport beam could in fact be part of a large scale indoctrination device.

2. Remember how the three choice paths for Control, Synthesis, and Destruction seem to line up with the physical surroundings around the conduit?  All three choice paths have you walking towards the beam, albeit deviating to the left or right just a bit based on circumstances, willpower/EMS, and personal selection.  Walking away from the beam, again, results in game over.  I would posit that the entire Citadel sequence is occurring inside Shepard's head, but he may still be stumbling towards that indoctrination beam in the real world (and reaching it probably means getting turned into a husk, much as the device on Aequitas did to the miners).  What's special about the Destroy ending here is that you manage to walk up to an explosive tank and get it to explode in your face, smacking yourself back into reality.

3. If the London conduit really is a massive "lure them in" indoctrination device, it would finally explain why everyone is fixated on getting to London.  The conduit/device is subtly calling everyone towards it.

to further solidify your points, one of the datapads on the Priority Earth mission is written by someone who says their friends and other people are going to the beam and they're drawn to it and it's wierd and suddenly the writing changes and the person says they're going to go too because they feel drawn to it.

Modifié par BatmanTurian, 15 juin 2012 - 12:00 .

[MaximizedAction]

ZerebusPrime wrote...

 So I completed my run through ME2.  The only relevant piece of information I have to discuss that has not already been discussed to death comes from the Aequitas Mission.  Some of you may recall that Aequitas was supposed to be some sort of major hint given to us before the release of ME3... or it may have been a red herring (and I tend to think that the red herring is a literal clue, given the deceptive nature of the ending of the game).  I was not privy to those hints at the time nor do I know where to find them now, so I'll be dependent on someone else to provide answers to any questions that might be raised about them.

Anyway, the Aequitas Mission centers around an abandoned mine where a mining team unearthed a Reaper indoctrination and huskification device.  In the early stages of the mission you find memos from the miners that detail their deterioration.  In particular:

A Strange Glow
Cooper and Joregenzen say they saw that damned alien thing glowing and hell if I'm going near it to prove them wrong. I don't get paid enough to expose myself to weird alien artifacts. I have to admit, though...that's an awful pretty sound coming from that back room. 

And then...

Something's Different
Cooper, Joregenzen, and them ain't doing so well. Not feeling so good myself either. Stay near the machine, feel better. Not sure I want to let them Elanus folk take it. Think it should stay right here with us. 

You can find a picture of the device on the link I provided.  Suffice to say that it's primarily a glowing orb.

So from this we learn that...

1. A powerful Reaper indoctrination and huskification device emits blue light/energy.

2. Once you are sufficiently exposed to that signal, you are drawn into the blue light (please, no Skyline jokes).

3. After some point if you try to leave the light you will become physically ill, so powerful is its pull.

4. Even if you try to avoid contact, the signal eventually draws you in closer for a look.

We can apply these lessons to the Conduit Run of ME3 and the final choices sequence like so:

1.  The beam to the Citadel oh so bright blue.  It's also a much, much larger and more powerful mechanism than the Aequitas device (or the Arrival device).  In fact, it's such a point of fixation that should Shepard try not to run towards it, he collapses for no good reason.  IIRC, there was a memo warning that people who approach the beam do not come back the same, so the so called transport beam could in fact be part of a large scale indoctrination device.

2. Remember how the three choice paths for Control, Synthesis, and Destruction seem to line up with the physical surroundings around the conduit?  All three choice paths have you walking towards the beam, albeit deviating to the left or right just a bit based on circumstances, willpower/EMS, and personal selection.  Walking away from the beam, again, results in game over.  I would posit that the entire Citadel sequence is occurring inside Shepard's head, but he may still be stumbling towards that indoctrination beam in the real world (and reaching it probably means getting turned into a husk, much as the device on Aequitas did to the miners).  What's special about the Destroy ending here is that you manage to walk up to an explosive tank and get it to explode in your face, smacking yourself back into reality.

3. If the London conduit really is a massive "lure them in" indoctrination device, it would finally explain why everyone is fixated on getting to London.  The conduit/device is subtly calling everyone towards it.

Reads perfectly legit.
Your post made me realise that all three choices do somewhat lead to a beam, most likely being the same beam, as after the laser shot we always see strong light coming from the front direction.
Your take on the beam might also account for those sounds that got mentioned on the last page, since they get a higher pitch the closer you get to the Cruicible beam: higher pitches can always be interpretated as the sign of getting closer to something, like the warmer/cold game.

Modifié par MaximizedAction, 15 juin 2012 - 12:04 .

[TSA_383]

ZerebusPrime wrote...

 So I completed my run through ME2.  The only relevant piece of information I have to discuss that has not already been discussed to death comes from the Aequitas Mission.  Some of you may recall that Aequitas was supposed to be some sort of major hint given to us before the release of ME3... or it may have been a red herring (and I tend to think that the red herring is a literal clue, given the deceptive nature of the ending of the game).  I was not privy to those hints at the time nor do I know where to find them now, so I'll be dependent on someone else to provide answers to any questions that might be raised about them.

Anyway, the Aequitas Mission centers around an abandoned mine where a mining team unearthed a Reaper indoctrination and huskification device.  In the early stages of the mission you find memos from the miners that detail their deterioration.  In particular:

A Strange Glow
Cooper and Joregenzen say they saw that damned alien thing glowing and hell if I'm going near it to prove them wrong. I don't get paid enough to expose myself to weird alien artifacts. I have to admit, though...that's an awful pretty sound coming from that back room. 

And then...

Something's Different
Cooper, Joregenzen, and them ain't doing so well. Not feeling so good myself either. Stay near the machine, feel better. Not sure I want to let them Elanus folk take it. Think it should stay right here with us. 

You can find a picture of the device on the link I provided.  Suffice to say that it's primarily a glowing orb.

So from this we learn that...

1. A powerful Reaper indoctrination and huskification device emits blue light/energy.

2. Once you are sufficiently exposed to that signal, you are drawn into the blue light (please, no Skyline jokes).

3. After some point if you try to leave the light you will become physically ill, so powerful is its pull.

4. Even if you try to avoid contact, the signal eventually draws you in closer for a look.

We can apply these lessons to the Conduit Run of ME3 and the final choices sequence like so:

1.  The beam to the Citadel oh so bright blue.  It's also a much, much larger and more powerful mechanism than the Aequitas device (or the Arrival device).  In fact, it's such a point of fixation that should Shepard try not to run towards it, he collapses for no good reason.  IIRC, there was a memo warning that people who approach the beam do not come back the same, so the so called transport beam could in fact be part of a large scale indoctrination device.

2. Remember how the three choice paths for Control, Synthesis, and Destruction seem to line up with the physical surroundings around the conduit?  All three choice paths have you walking towards the beam, albeit deviating to the left or right just a bit based on circumstances, willpower/EMS, and personal selection.  Walking away from the beam, again, results in game over.  I would posit that the entire Citadel sequence is occurring inside Shepard's head, but he may still be stumbling towards that indoctrination beam in the real world (and reaching it probably means getting turned into a husk, much as the device on Aequitas did to the miners).  What's special about the Destroy ending here is that you manage to walk up to an explosive tank and get it to explode in your face, smacking yourself back into reality.

3. If the London conduit really is a massive "lure them in" indoctrination device, it would finally explain why everyone is fixated on getting to London.  The conduit/device is subtly calling everyone towards it.

Interesting thought - I think you may well be on the right lines there...


By the by, results of my infrasound run:

There is substantial, but not exceptional, infrasound in the london level, but much, much more interestingly, there is a low bass hum ~26-31Hz (varies a little between scenes) that from what I've seen so far appears in every single scene with Major Coates.

For example, from a conversation with only coates and shep inside the hammer base:


And then, immediately after coates leaves:



Why yes James, I think we do hear that hum...

[BatmanTurian]

TSA_383 wrote...

Interesting thought - I think you may well be on the right lines there...


By the by, results of my infrasound run:

There is substantial, but not exceptional, infrasound in the london level, but much, much more interestingly, there is a low bass hum ~26-31Hz (varies a little between scenes) that from what I've seen so far appears in every single scene with Major Coates.

For example, from a conversation with only coates and shep inside the hammer base:


And then, immediately after coates leaves:



Why yes James, I think we do hear that hum...

What I'm getting from this is that Coates is like Kenson and isn't what he pretends to be.

[paxxton]

TSA_383 wrote...

*snip*

By the by, results of my infrasound run:

There is substantial, but not exceptional, infrasound in the london level, but much, much more interestingly, there is a low bass hum ~26-31Hz (varies a little between scenes) that from what I've seen so far appears in every single scene with Major Coates.

For example, from a conversation with only coates and shep inside the hammer base:


And then, immediately after coates leaves:



Why yes James, I think we do hear that hum...

This is scientific proof!!!! Could you describe your methodology for obtaining sound samples for this experiment?

Modifié par paxxton, 15 juin 2012 - 12:13 .

[TSA_383]

paxxton wrote...

This is scientific proof!!!! Could you describe your methodology for obtaining sound samples for this experiment?

1. Download 900MB 1080p video of the london level from youtube.
2. Rip audio
3. Do FFT (with the settings you can see in the screenshots) on the entire window of Shepard talking to Coates, then also on the scene after he leaves the room.
4.????
5.Profit!

[Ytook]

I'm sure this had been mentioned but what the hell. I find the way the decision chamber is laid very odd, it seems to do obviously point towards synthesis, it's strait ahead and it's glowing extremely brightly, it's slap bang in the middle of your view and if you don't have enough EMS to achieve it then it lies tantalisingly out of view mocking you because you failed to be worthy of it. As well as simply what the child says the layout of the room makes destroy and control look and feel like deviations, as you move away from the pretty lights. Destroy is an uninteresting tube bathed in red light and looks dark and forboding (even without the child's assertions of doom and gloom). Control gives off light and looks more appealing but is 'spiky' and dangerous looking, tantalising you with power but warning against what having such power might do. While synthesis looks warm and inviting, it's impossible not to see and it's tinged a pleasant green, a brand new option in a game where you've been choosing between two visual (as well as ideological) extremes, and green is of course the colour of peace and stability, it's a visual representative of the positive ('yes' and 'go'), and it's the colour of nature and naturalism. Everything, and I mean everything, is pointing you towards synthesis both visually, aurally and through the child's words, despite even a cursory glance revealing it to be everything you've fought against for the past 150 hours. There is no balance of any sort in the choices whatsoever, and in a series (and from a developer) famous for moral conundrums without right answers that presentation is so bizarre and out of place, that it can only be deliberate and ingeniously malicious.

... or maybe I'm just hoping too hard.

[HellishFiend]

As I said before TSA_383, you're my hero. Going to spend some time pouring over this and seeing how we could best present it as evidence.

[Gernbuster]

HellishFiend wrote...

Gernbuster wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

Trauma3x wrote...

Its probably been mentioned but could the "tech" cerberus used to resurrect Shep with, have a little taint of indoctrination (i.e. Reaper tech)?

Impossible to be sure, but the current common belief is that the tech within Shepard is not responsible for any of the Indoctrination effects. 

Btw can you remember my listen to the Reaper voices= renegade?
 implants get stronger and there is more and similarity to Paul Greyson or TIM in the dream sequenz, if you do so

Not sure I recall that... can you be more specific? Sounds interesting. 

Ok I will do it again^^ :

In ME1, the farmers tell you about a signal comming from the Ship, which feels like cutting in your brain. Exactly this is whats happening a few minutes after to Shep Kaidan and Ash.

I think thats the moment, of a begining indoctrination. Only a whispering inside Shepards head. As everyone feels at the beginning.
When Shepard is telling Anderson about the Prothean beaker you actually have these whispers in the backround. (doesn't neccessarilly need to be important)
Basicly every important descision in ME1/2/3, where you pick renegade has more negative impacts then its paragon opposite, you listen to the indoctrination without understanding that you get influenced.

I spend month on this and I havent found one single situation where this is wrong.

Some examples:
Reapers want you to kill the Rachni ( maybe useful allies)
Reapers want you to kill Wrex (He is the strong clever legal heiress to the throne)
Reapers want you let the Council die. (Less trust in humanity by other species, political disaster)
Reapers want you to choose Udina instead of Anderson (A soldier leading the species is far more dangerous, then the normal egoistic ass politician)

Reapers want you to destroy Mealons data( Breaking trust again, less allies)
Reapers want you to kill the Heretics (less possible allies, once more)
Reapers want you not to destroy the collector base ( They want you to use it or anybody else, to gain more influence)

Reapers want you to sabotage the cure (blabla)
Reapers want you to let the Geth die (blabla)
etc
etc
I could go on with 50 more examples -.-

Anyway choosing renegade let your Reaper implants grow same as Paul Greysons implants grow, while he is listening to the whispers.

PS: From the book frontpage we can assume his implants may be red as well.

Modifié par Gernbuster, 15 juin 2012 - 12:25 .

[paxxton]

TSA_383 wrote...

paxxton wrote...

This is scientific proof!!!! Could you describe your methodology for obtaining sound samples for this experiment?

1. Download 900MB 1080p video of the london level from youtube.
2. Rip audio
3. Do FFT (with the settings you can see in the screenshots) on the entire window of Shepard talking to Coates, then also on the scene after he leaves the room.
4.????
5.Profit!

From this it looks like Coats is the Catalyst of the infrasounds (I know your first thought was that I said he's the Catalyst ). Either he is a hallucination (caused by infrasounds) or the infrasounds hint that he's a sleeper agent. Did you analyze other scenes where Coats is present?

Modifié par paxxton, 15 juin 2012 - 12:25 .

[HellishFiend]

Gernbuster wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

Gernbuster wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

Trauma3x wrote...

Its probably been mentioned but could the "tech" cerberus used to resurrect Shep with, have a little taint of indoctrination (i.e. Reaper tech)?

Impossible to be sure, but the current common belief is that the tech within Shepard is not responsible for any of the Indoctrination effects. 

Btw can you remember my listen to the Reaper voices= renegade?
 implants get stronger and there is more and similarity to Paul Greyson or TIM in the dream sequenz, if you do so

Not sure I recall that... can you be more specific? Sounds interesting. 

Ok I will do it again^^ :

In ME1, the farmers tell you about a signal comming from the Ship, which feels like cutting in your brain. Exactly this is whats happening a few minutes after to Shep Kaidan and Ash.

I think thats the moment, of a begining indoctrination. Only a whispering inside Shepards head. As everyone feels at the beginning.
When Shepard is telling Anderson about the Prothean beaker you actually have these whispers in the backround. (doesn't neccessarilly need to be important)
Basicly every important descision in ME1/2/3, where you pick renegade has more negative impacts then its paragon opposite, you listen to the indoctrination without understanding that you get influenced.

I spend month on this and I havent found one single situation where this is wrong.

Some examples:
Reapers want you to kill the Rachni ( maybe useful allies)
Reapers want you to kill Wrex (He is the strong clever legal heiress to the throne)
Reapers want you let the Council die. (Less trust in humanity by other species, political disaster)
Reapers want you to choose Udina instead of Anderson (A soldier leading the species is far more dangerous, then the normal egoistic ass politician)

Reapers want you to destroy Mealons data( Breaking trust again, less allies)
Reapers want you to kill the Heretics (less possible allies, once more)
Reapers want you not to destroy the collector base ( They want you to use it or anybody else, to gain more influence)

Reapers want you to sabotage the cure (blabla)
Reapers want you to let the Geth die (blabla)
etc
etc
I could go on with 50 more examples -.-

Anyway choosing renegade let your Reaper implants grow same as Paul Greysons implants grow, while he is listening to the whispers.

PS: From the book frontpage we can assume his implants may be red as well.

Ooh yeah, I do remember that! Good stuff. Could potentially play along with how by Shepard's values, they are renegade decisions, but by the Reapers' values, they are Paragon, which is why the colors are reversed in the decision chamber. 

Only problem is that narratively speaking, Shepard could already be a ruthless a-hole before any of this starts happening. But that might just make him easier to indoctrinate, who knows.

Outside of the narrative, the problem would be that people who wanted to be renegade would feel they were given the short end of the stick. Would Bioware be ok with that? Hmm, dont know. 

[HellishFiend]

Ytook wrote...

I'm sure this had been mentioned but what the hell. I find the way the decision chamber is laid very odd, it seems to do obviously point towards synthesis, it's strait ahead and it's glowing extremely brightly, it's slap bang in the middle of your view and if you don't have enough EMS to achieve it then it lies tantalisingly out of view mocking you because you failed to be worthy of it. As well as simply what the child says the layout of the room makes destroy and control look and feel like deviations, as you move away from the pretty lights. Destroy is an uninteresting tube bathed in red light and looks dark and forboding (even without the child's assertions of doom and gloom). Control gives off light and looks more appealing but is 'spiky' and dangerous looking, tantalising you with power but warning against what having such power might do. While synthesis looks warm and inviting, it's impossible not to see and it's tinged a pleasant green, a brand new option in a game where you've been choosing between two visual (as well as ideological) extremes, and green is of course the colour of peace and stability, it's a visual representative of the positive ('yes' and 'go'), and it's the colour of nature and naturalism. Everything, and I mean everything, is pointing you towards synthesis both visually, aurally and through the child's words, despite even a cursory glance revealing it to be everything you've fought against for the past 150 hours. There is no balance of any sort in the choices whatsoever, and in a series (and from a developer) famous for moral conundrums without right answers that presentation is so bizarre and out of place, that it can only be deliberate and ingeniously malicious.

... or maybe I'm just hoping too hard.

Not at all. It's a fair and logical symbolic analysis of the decision chamber. I like it. 

[Gernbuster]

Ok I will do it again^^ :

In ME1, the farmers tell you about a signal comming from the Ship, which feels like cutting in your brain. Exactly this is whats happening a few minutes after to Shep Kaidan and Ash.

I think thats the moment, of a begining indoctrination. Only a whispering inside Shepards head. As everyone feels at the beginning.
When Shepard is telling Anderson about the Prothean beaker you actually have these whispers in the backround. (doesn't neccessarilly need to be important)
Basicly every important descision in ME1/2/3, where you pick renegade has more negative impacts then its paragon opposite, you listen to the indoctrination without understanding that you get influenced.

I spend month on this and I havent found one single situation where this is wrong.

Some examples:
Reapers want you to kill the Rachni ( maybe useful allies)
Reapers want you to kill Wrex (He is the strong clever legal heiress to the throne)
Reapers want you let the Council die. (Less trust in humanity by other species, political disaster)
Reapers want you to choose Udina instead of Anderson (A soldier leading the species is far more dangerous, then the normal egoistic ass politician)

Reapers want you to destroy Mealons data( Breaking trust again, less allies)
Reapers want you to kill the Heretics (less possible allies, once more)
Reapers want you not to destroy the collector base ( They want you to use it or anybody else, to gain more influence)

Reapers want you to sabotage the cure (blabla)
Reapers want you to let the Geth die (blabla)
etc
etc
I could go on with 50 more examples -.-

Anyway choosing renegade let your Reaper implants grow same as Paul Greysons implants grow, while he is listening to the whispers.

PS: From the book frontpage we can assume his implants may be red as well.[/quote]

Ooh yeah, I do remember that! Good stuff. Could potentially play along with how by Shepard's values, they are renegade decisions, but by the Reapers' values, they are Paragon, which is why the colors are reversed in the decision chamber. 

Only problem is that narratively speaking, Shepard could already be a ruthless a-hole before any of this starts happening. But that might just make him easier to indoctrinate, who knows.

Outside of the narrative, the problem would be that people who wanted to be renegade would feel they were given the short end of the stick. Would Bioware be ok with that? Hmm, dont know. 

[/quote]

The good thing, is you can't really proof or disproof it, because it doesn't have much impact on Shep.

BUT it has a huge impact on you, the player!
I was a renegade player from the first second of ME, sometimes I asked myself if that was the right descision afterwards and why I have done this....and did it again.
And guess what I listend to Starbinger and went straight to the control ending. I didn't even think a second, about the other two possebilities. And I am not proud of it.
Hell yea ^^ just had my comming out. YUHUUU

Modifié par Gernbuster, 15 juin 2012 - 12:37 .

[Arian Dynas]

Well considering all the foremost indoctrinated characters are Renegades...

[Arian Dynas]

HellishFiend wrote...

Ytook wrote...

I'm sure this had been mentioned but what the hell. I find the way the decision chamber is laid very odd, it seems to do obviously point towards synthesis, it's strait ahead and it's glowing extremely brightly, it's slap bang in the middle of your view and if you don't have enough EMS to achieve it then it lies tantalisingly out of view mocking you because you failed to be worthy of it. As well as simply what the child says the layout of the room makes destroy and control look and feel like deviations, as you move away from the pretty lights. Destroy is an uninteresting tube bathed in red light and looks dark and forboding (even without the child's assertions of doom and gloom). Control gives off light and looks more appealing but is 'spiky' and dangerous looking, tantalising you with power but warning against what having such power might do. While synthesis looks warm and inviting, it's impossible not to see and it's tinged a pleasant green, a brand new option in a game where you've been choosing between two visual (as well as ideological) extremes, and green is of course the colour of peace and stability, it's a visual representative of the positive ('yes' and 'go'), and it's the colour of nature and naturalism. Everything, and I mean everything, is pointing you towards synthesis both visually, aurally and through the child's words, despite even a cursory glance revealing it to be everything you've fought against for the past 150 hours. There is no balance of any sort in the choices whatsoever, and in a series (and from a developer) famous for moral conundrums without right answers that presentation is so bizarre and out of place, that it can only be deliberate and ingeniously malicious.

... or maybe I'm just hoping too hard.

Not at all. It's a fair and logical symbolic analysis of the decision chamber. I like it. 

Come to think of it. Maybe THAT's the real reason there is no center option for dialogue anymore. We're stuck between extremes, and Shepard himself THINKS in extremes, the developers explicitly told us, it is hard for Shepard to feel middling about the Reapers.

So why then do we have Synthesis? The definition of middling against the Reapers?

[paxxton]

Arian Dynas wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

Ytook wrote...

I'm sure this had been mentioned but what the hell. I find the way the decision chamber is laid very odd, it seems to do obviously point towards synthesis, it's strait ahead and it's glowing extremely brightly, it's slap bang in the middle of your view and if you don't have enough EMS to achieve it then it lies tantalisingly out of view mocking you because you failed to be worthy of it. As well as simply what the child says the layout of the room makes destroy and control look and feel like deviations, as you move away from the pretty lights. Destroy is an uninteresting tube bathed in red light and looks dark and forboding (even without the child's assertions of doom and gloom). Control gives off light and looks more appealing but is 'spiky' and dangerous looking, tantalising you with power but warning against what having such power might do. While synthesis looks warm and inviting, it's impossible not to see and it's tinged a pleasant green, a brand new option in a game where you've been choosing between two visual (as well as ideological) extremes, and green is of course the colour of peace and stability, it's a visual representative of the positive ('yes' and 'go'), and it's the colour of nature and naturalism. Everything, and I mean everything, is pointing you towards synthesis both visually, aurally and through the child's words, despite even a cursory glance revealing it to be everything you've fought against for the past 150 hours. There is no balance of any sort in the choices whatsoever, and in a series (and from a developer) famous for moral conundrums without right answers that presentation is so bizarre and out of place, that it can only be deliberate and ingeniously malicious.

... or maybe I'm just hoping too hard.

Not at all. It's a fair and logical symbolic analysis of the decision chamber. I like it. 

Come to think of it. Maybe THAT's the real reason there is no center option for dialogue anymore. We're stuck between extremes, and Shepard himself THINKS in extremes, the developers explicitly told us, it is hard for Shepard to feel middling about the Reapers.

So why then do we have Synthesis? The definition of middling against the Reapers?

Maybe because the players want to level with the Reapers. They seek compromise instictively. When finally after being denied that option they get it they fall for it.

Modifié par paxxton, 15 juin 2012 - 12:45 .

[RaidShock]

ZerebusPrime wrote...

 So I completed my run through ME2.  The only relevant piece of information I have to discuss that has not already been discussed to death comes from the Aequitas Mission.  Some of you may recall that Aequitas was supposed to be some sort of major hint given to us before the release of ME3... or it may have been a red herring (and I tend to think that the red herring is a literal clue, given the deceptive nature of the ending of the game).  I was not privy to those hints at the time nor do I know where to find them now, so I'll be dependent on someone else to provide answers to any questions that might be raised about them.

Anyway, the Aequitas Mission centers around an abandoned mine where a mining team unearthed a Reaper indoctrination and huskification device.  In the early stages of the mission you find memos from the miners that detail their deterioration.  In particular:

A Strange Glow
Cooper and Joregenzen say they saw that damned alien thing glowing and hell if I'm going near it to prove them wrong. I don't get paid enough to expose myself to weird alien artifacts. I have to admit, though...that's an awful pretty sound coming from that back room. 

And then...

Something's Different
Cooper, Joregenzen, and them ain't doing so well. Not feeling so good myself either. Stay near the machine, feel better. Not sure I want to let them Elanus folk take it. Think it should stay right here with us. 

You can find a picture of the device on the link I provided.  Suffice to say that it's primarily a glowing orb.

So from this we learn that...

1. A powerful Reaper indoctrination and huskification device emits blue light/energy.

2. Once you are sufficiently exposed to that signal, you are drawn into the blue light (please, no Skyline jokes).

3. After some point if you try to leave the light you will become physically ill, so powerful is its pull.

4. Even if you try to avoid contact, the signal eventually draws you in closer for a look.

We can apply these lessons to the Conduit Run of ME3 and the final choices sequence like so:

1.  The beam to the Citadel oh so bright blue.  It's also a much, much larger and more powerful mechanism than the Aequitas device (or the Arrival device).  In fact, it's such a point of fixation that should Shepard try not to run towards it, he collapses for no good reason.  IIRC, there was a memo warning that people who approach the beam do not come back the same, so the so called transport beam could in fact be part of a large scale indoctrination device.

2. Remember how the three choice paths for Control, Synthesis, and Destruction seem to line up with the physical surroundings around the conduit?  All three choice paths have you walking towards the beam, albeit deviating to the left or right just a bit based on circumstances, willpower/EMS, and personal selection.  Walking away from the beam, again, results in game over.  I would posit that the entire Citadel sequence is occurring inside Shepard's head, but he may still be stumbling towards that indoctrination beam in the real world (and reaching it probably means getting turned into a husk, much as the device on Aequitas did to the miners).  What's special about the Destroy ending here is that you manage to walk up to an explosive tank and get it to explode in your face, smacking yourself back into reality.

3. If the London conduit really is a massive "lure them in" indoctrination device, it would finally explain why everyone is fixated on getting to London.  The conduit/device is subtly calling everyone towards it.

Very interesting and it makes a lot of sense. How would you explain Harbinger blasting everyone that is running towards it though? If it really is a reaper indoctrination device, why not just let Shepard and company proceed? Why stop them?

Modifié par RaidShock, 15 juin 2012 - 12:43 .

[Arian Dynas]

In other words, the limited dialogue might actually be a legitimate stylistic choice, than a consequence of limited assets

[Gernbuster]

Got more for you:
The word renegate comes from the latin words "re" and "negare" and was first used by the Spanish Reconquista ("Renegado"). It described Christians who betrayed their own Religion and Country, by working for the Muslims and accepted their Religion.

PS: Once more the German translation for renegade is "abtrünnig", which means something like changing the sides.

Modifié par Gernbuster, 15 juin 2012 - 12:49 .

[HellishFiend]

Arian Dynas wrote...

In other words, the limited dialogue might actually be a legitimate stylistic choice, than a consequence of limited assets

Quite possible. 

[HellishFiend]

TSA_383 wrote...

By the by, results of my infrasound run:

There is substantial, but not exceptional, infrasound in the london level, but much, much more interestingly, there is a low bass hum ~26-31Hz (varies a little between scenes) that from what I've seen so far appears in every single scene with Major Coates.

For example, from a conversation with only coates and shep inside the hammer base:


And then, immediately after coates leaves:



Why yes James, I think we do hear that hum...

Ok, so here are my initial thoughts.

It appears to me that we have some very compelling evidence for the Coates Theory here, as well as IT in general. 

The presence of infrasound while Coates is present has no possible purpose other than to be a hidden, undetectable indoctrination signal that can only be found with specific equipment.

To explore my reasoning behind that, lets step outside of the context of the story for a moment.

There are bass frequencies in there that are literally so low, no conventional speaker would be able to reproduce them. They have no business being there. Sound systems wouldnt play them, and we'd certainly never, ever hear them or even know they were there. 

In the context of the Mass Effect story, however?



Of this there can be no doubt. 

Ok, stepping back out of the story here again.

30hz on the other hand is a very "safe" bet if you're trying to convey a bassy hum to an audience that will be reproduced on the majority of home theater systems. It's used by sound studios all the time when doing movie and videogame sound effects. Any system with a subwoofer of any kind can reproduce 30hz. In fact, any system that utilizes woofers 5.5 inches (sorry, I'm used to using American standard units when talking about speakers...) or larger will be able to do 30hz to some degree. It's a great frequency for adding some punch to explosions and humming engines and things of that nature. 

My conclusion is that the presence and non-presence of the 30hz bass and infrasonic hums coinciding with the presence of Coats is, in my opinion, Bioware trying to call attention to, or leave an indication of, an infrasonic indoctrination signal associated with Coats. 


So what do we need to present this as irrefutable evidence? Quite simply, we just need more of it. We need to reveal obvious patterns in where the infrasound is and is not present. If we can do that, we may just have our Ace. 

If this were a war, victory may well be at hand...