55528 réponses à ce sujet

[Gernbuster]

RaidShock wrote...

ZerebusPrime wrote...

 So I completed my run through ME2.  The only relevant piece of information I have to discuss that has not already been discussed to death comes from the Aequitas Mission.  Some of you may recall that Aequitas was supposed to be some sort of major hint given to us before the release of ME3... or it may have been a red herring (and I tend to think that the red herring is a literal clue, given the deceptive nature of the ending of the game).  I was not privy to those hints at the time nor do I know where to find them now, so I'll be dependent on someone else to provide answers to any questions that might be raised about them.

Anyway, the Aequitas Mission centers around an abandoned mine where a mining team unearthed a Reaper indoctrination and huskification device.  In the early stages of the mission you find memos from the miners that detail their deterioration.  In particular:

A Strange Glow
Cooper and Joregenzen say they saw that damned alien thing glowing and hell if I'm going near it to prove them wrong. I don't get paid enough to expose myself to weird alien artifacts. I have to admit, though...that's an awful pretty sound coming from that back room. 

And then...

Something's Different
Cooper, Joregenzen, and them ain't doing so well. Not feeling so good myself either. Stay near the machine, feel better. Not sure I want to let them Elanus folk take it. Think it should stay right here with us. 

You can find a picture of the device on the link I provided.  Suffice to say that it's primarily a glowing orb.

So from this we learn that...

1. A powerful Reaper indoctrination and huskification device emits blue light/energy.

2. Once you are sufficiently exposed to that signal, you are drawn into the blue light (please, no Skyline jokes).

3. After some point if you try to leave the light you will become physically ill, so powerful is its pull.

4. Even if you try to avoid contact, the signal eventually draws you in closer for a look.

We can apply these lessons to the Conduit Run of ME3 and the final choices sequence like so:

1.  The beam to the Citadel oh so bright blue.  It's also a much, much larger and more powerful mechanism than the Aequitas device (or the Arrival device).  In fact, it's such a point of fixation that should Shepard try not to run towards it, he collapses for no good reason.  IIRC, there was a memo warning that people who approach the beam do not come back the same, so the so called transport beam could in fact be part of a large scale indoctrination device.

2. Remember how the three choice paths for Control, Synthesis, and Destruction seem to line up with the physical surroundings around the conduit?  All three choice paths have you walking towards the beam, albeit deviating to the left or right just a bit based on circumstances, willpower/EMS, and personal selection.  Walking away from the beam, again, results in game over.  I would posit that the entire Citadel sequence is occurring inside Shepard's head, but he may still be stumbling towards that indoctrination beam in the real world (and reaching it probably means getting turned into a husk, much as the device on Aequitas did to the miners).  What's special about the Destroy ending here is that you manage to walk up to an explosive tank and get it to explode in your face, smacking yourself back into reality.

3. If the London conduit really is a massive "lure them in" indoctrination device, it would finally explain why everyone is fixated on getting to London.  The conduit/device is subtly calling everyone towards it.

Very interesting and it makes a lot of sense. How would you explain Harbinger blasting everyone that is running towards it though? If it really is a reaper indoctrination device, why not just let Shepard and company proceed? Why stop them?

What if the Reapers wanted Shepard to collect all fleets and sources to do a suicidal attack on what they think is their last chance, so the Reapers can handle the whole war on one single day instead of fighting hundred of years against Guerillias?

[HellishFiend]

HellishFiend wrote...

TSA_383 wrote...

By the by, results of my infrasound run:

There is substantial, but not exceptional, infrasound in the london level, but much, much more interestingly, there is a low bass hum ~26-31Hz (varies a little between scenes) that from what I've seen so far appears in every single scene with Major Coates.

For example, from a conversation with only coates and shep inside the hammer base:


And then, immediately after coates leaves:



Why yes James, I think we do hear that hum...

Ok, so here are my initial thoughts.

It appears to me that we have some very compelling evidence for the Coates Theory here, as well as IT in general. 

The presence of infrasound while Coates is present has no possible purpose other than to be a hidden, undetectable indoctrination signal that can only be found with specific equipment.

To explore my reasoning behind that, lets step outside of the context of the story for a moment.

There are bass frequencies in there that are literally so low, no conventional speaker would be able to reproduce them. They have no business being there. Sound systems wouldnt play them, and we'd certainly never, ever hear them or even know they were there. 

In the context of the Mass Effect story, however?



Of this there can be no doubt. 

Ok, stepping back out of the story here again.

30hz on the other hand is a very "safe" bet if you're trying to convey a bassy hum to an audience that will be reproduced on the majority of home theater systems. It's used by sound studios all the time when doing movie and videogame sound effects. Any system with a subwoofer of any kind can reproduce 30hz. In fact, any system that utilizes woofers 5.5 inches (sorry, I'm used to using American standard units when talking about speakers...) or larger will be able to do 30hz to some degree. It's a great frequency for adding some punch to explosions and humming engines and things of that nature. 

My conclusion is that the presence and non-presence of the 30hz bass and infrasonic hums coinciding with the presence of Coats is, in my opinion, Bioware trying to call attention to, or leave an indication of, an infrasonic indoctrination signal associated with Coats. 


So what do we need to present this as irrefutable evidence? Quite simply, we just need more of it. We need to reveal obvious patterns in where the infrasound is and is not present. If we can do that, we may just have our Ace. 

If this were a war, victory may well be at hand...

Reposting for the new page. If you havent read it, do yourself a huge favor and read it. It's the find of the month, if not more.

edit: Information on Infrasound in general for anyone who isnt aware:
http://www.lowertheb.../infrasound.htm 

Modifié par HellishFiend, 15 juin 2012 - 01:01 .

[FFZero]

TSA_383 wrote...


By the by, results of my infrasound run:

There is substantial, but not exceptional, infrasound in the london level, but much, much more interestingly, there is a low bass hum ~26-31Hz (varies a little between scenes) that from what I've seen so far appears in every single scene with Major Coates.

For example, from a conversation with only coates and shep inside the hammer base:


And then, immediately after coates leaves:



Why yes James, I think we do hear that hum...

Very interesting stuff TSA!

Btw correct me if I’m wrong, but infrasound is anything lower in frequency than 20 Hz right? If so I may have found some evidence of infrasound being used in the dream sequences.

Modifié par FFZero, 15 juin 2012 - 12:57 .

[RaidShock]

Gernbuster wrote...
What if the Reapers wanted Shepard to collect all fleets and sources to do a suicidal attack on what they think is their last chance, so the Reapers can handle the whole war on one single day instead of fighting hundred of years against Guerillias?

Hmm I could see that, I suppose, although it still would be odd that Harbinger himself decides it is necessary to haul ass to get to the beam and blow them up. If they become fully indoctrinated by getting to the beam, it's not like they would be threats anymore. You would htink Harbinger would focus on the space battle. Perhaps not though. I really do like the idea of the beam being an indoctrination device though. 

Modifié par RaidShock, 15 juin 2012 - 01:01 .

[paxxton]

RaidShock wrote...

Gernbuster wrote...
What if the Reapers wanted Shepard to collect all fleets and sources to do a suicidal attack on what they think is their last chance, so the Reapers can handle the whole war on one single day instead of fighting hundred of years against Guerillias?

Hmm I could see that, I suppose, although it still would be odd that Harbinger himself decides it is necessary to haul ass to get to the beam and blow them up. If they become fully indoctrinated by getting to the beam, it's not like they would be threats anymore. You would htink Harbinger would focus on the space battle. Perhaps not though. I really do like the idea of the beam being an indoctrination device though. 

Gernbuster is right. This is IEMSI. Inverse EMS Influence on the war outcome.

Modifié par paxxton, 15 juin 2012 - 01:06 .

[Arian Dynas]

Reposting for new page, the idea that having only two dialogue choices instead of the standard three might be an intentional stylistic choice.

Arian Dynas wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

Ytook wrote...

I'm sure this had been mentioned but what the hell. I find the way the decision chamber is laid very odd, it seems to do obviously point towards synthesis, it's strait ahead and it's glowing extremely brightly, it's slap bang in the middle of your view and if you don't have enough EMS to achieve it then it lies tantalisingly out of view mocking you because you failed to be worthy of it. As well as simply what the child says the layout of the room makes destroy and control look and feel like deviations, as you move away from the pretty lights. Destroy is an uninteresting tube bathed in red light and looks dark and forboding (even without the child's assertions of doom and gloom). Control gives off light and looks more appealing but is 'spiky' and dangerous looking, tantalising you with power but warning against what having such power might do. While synthesis looks warm and inviting, it's impossible not to see and it's tinged a pleasant green, a brand new option in a game where you've been choosing between two visual (as well as ideological) extremes, and green is of course the colour of peace and stability, it's a visual representative of the positive ('yes' and 'go'), and it's the colour of nature and naturalism. Everything, and I mean everything, is pointing you towards synthesis both visually, aurally and through the child's words, despite even a cursory glance revealing it to be everything you've fought against for the past 150 hours. There is no balance of any sort in the choices whatsoever, and in a series (and from a developer) famous for moral conundrums without right answers that presentation is so bizarre and out of place, that it can only be deliberate and ingeniously malicious.

... or maybe I'm just hoping too hard.

Not at all. It's a fair and logical symbolic analysis of the decision chamber. I like it. 

Come to think of it. Maybe THAT's the real reason there is no center option for dialogue anymore. We're stuck between extremes, and Shepard himself THINKS in extremes, the developers explicitly told us, it is hard for Shepard to feel middling about the Reapers.

So why then do we have Synthesis? The definition of middling against the Reapers?

[ZerebusPrime]

RaidShock wrote...

ZerebusPrime wrote...

Quite a lot.  *snip*

Very interesting and it makes a lot of sense. How would you explain Harbinger blasting everyone that is running towards it though? If it really is a reaper indoctrination device, why not just let Shepard and company proceed? Why stop them?

Speculation!  It's all I've got for that right now.

I don't know that Harbinger was really even there at that point, nor the endless hordes of mook soldiers getting blasted left and right.  It could be someone else desperately trying to get Shepard to stop moving towards the death ray...

...or maybe it really IS Harbinger.  Harbinger would remember Shepard's resistance to Object Rho (or just Shepard's willpower in general) and might want to bang Shepard up a bit to make sure the indoctrination energies have time to thoroughly seep into Shepard's brain.

Harbinger could also be acting to defend the London Indoctrination Device.  He wants people drawn to it, yes, but an army running kamikaze at it threatens the destruction of the device, assuming it's on the ground.  He would still spare Shepard because he wants Shepard indoctrinated, but raze everyone else because they represent a collective threat.

Modifié par ZerebusPrime, 15 juin 2012 - 01:08 .

[Gernbuster]

paxxton wrote...

RaidShock wrote...

Gernbuster wrote...
What if the Reapers wanted Shepard to collect all fleets and sources to do a suicidal attack on what they think is their last chance, so the Reapers can handle the whole war on one single day instead of fighting hundred of years against Guerillias?

Hmm I could see that, I suppose, although it still would be odd that Harbinger himself decides it is necessary to haul ass to get to the beam and blow them up. If they become fully indoctrinated by getting to the beam, it's not like they would be threats anymore. You would htink Harbinger would focus on the space battle. Perhaps not though. I really do like the idea of the beam being an indoctrination device though. 

Gernbuster is right. this is IEMSI. Inverse EMS Influence on the war outcome.

When I was waiting for ME3 to get released, I met some friends played some games, had a nice evening and we were talking about what could happen in ME3.
I said, hey guys imagin Shepards gets indoctrinated and collects all sources to lead them into a Reaper trap.
And we were laughing.....

Modifié par Gernbuster, 15 juin 2012 - 01:09 .

[Makrys]

 You have GOT to be kidding me... are people really THIS stupid? God...

http://social.biowar.../index/12579200

Its quite obvious he knows very little about the IT, indoctrination in general, and when he said Shepard hasn't been around Reapers that much.... I laughed inside. That's really... a new low. I sometimes wonder if some people even payed attention to ME's story throughout the trilogy. 

Modifié par Makrys, 15 juin 2012 - 01:12 .

[paxxton]

Arian Dynas wrote...

Reposting for new page, the idea that having only two dialogue choices instead of the standard three might be an intentional stylistic choice.

Arian Dynas wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

Ytook wrote...

I'm sure this had been mentioned but what the hell. I find the way the decision chamber is laid very odd, it seems to do obviously point towards synthesis, it's strait ahead and it's glowing extremely brightly, it's slap bang in the middle of your view and if you don't have enough EMS to achieve it then it lies tantalisingly out of view mocking you because you failed to be worthy of it. As well as simply what the child says the layout of the room makes destroy and control look and feel like deviations, as you move away from the pretty lights. Destroy is an uninteresting tube bathed in red light and looks dark and forboding (even without the child's assertions of doom and gloom). Control gives off light and looks more appealing but is 'spiky' and dangerous looking, tantalising you with power but warning against what having such power might do. While synthesis looks warm and inviting, it's impossible not to see and it's tinged a pleasant green, a brand new option in a game where you've been choosing between two visual (as well as ideological) extremes, and green is of course the colour of peace and stability, it's a visual representative of the positive ('yes' and 'go'), and it's the colour of nature and naturalism. Everything, and I mean everything, is pointing you towards synthesis both visually, aurally and through the child's words, despite even a cursory glance revealing it to be everything you've fought against for the past 150 hours. There is no balance of any sort in the choices whatsoever, and in a series (and from a developer) famous for moral conundrums without right answers that presentation is so bizarre and out of place, that it can only be deliberate and ingeniously malicious.

... or maybe I'm just hoping too hard.

Not at all. It's a fair and logical symbolic analysis of the decision chamber. I like it. 

Come to think of it. Maybe THAT's the real reason there is no center option for dialogue anymore. We're stuck between extremes, and Shepard himself THINKS in extremes, the developers explicitly told us, it is hard for Shepard to feel middling about the Reapers.

So why then do we have Synthesis? The definition of middling against the Reapers?

As I said on the previous page which suspiciously got lost:

Maybe because the players want to level with the Reapers. They seek compromise instictively. When after being denied that option they finally get it they fall for it.

Modifié par paxxton, 15 juin 2012 - 01:12 .

[HellishFiend]

Guys, do yourselves a favor and read that sound post at the top of the page. I cant be the only one excited about this. Am I not doing a good job of explaining how enormous a find this is?

[Arian Dynas]

We're so excited we're speechless.

[HellishFiend]

Arian Dynas wrote...

We're so excited we're speechless.

Please tell me you're not being sarcastic. 

[EpyonX3]

Listen to Vendetta's words well.

"You are attempting to recover me from Indoctrinated forces."

[Gernbuster]

ZerebusPrime wrote...

RaidShock wrote...

ZerebusPrime wrote...

Quite a lot.  *snip*

Very interesting and it makes a lot of sense. How would you explain Harbinger blasting everyone that is running towards it though? If it really is a reaper indoctrination device, why not just let Shepard and company proceed? Why stop them?

Speculation!  It's all I've got for that right now.

I don't know that Harbinger was really even there at that point, nor the endless hordes of mook soldiers getting blasted left and right.  It could be someone else desperately trying to get Shepard to stop moving towards the death ray...

...or maybe it really IS Harbinger.  Harbinger would remember Shepard's resistance to Object Rho (or just Shepard's willpower in general) and might want to bang Shepard up a bit to make sure the indoctrination energies have time to thoroughly seep into Shepard's brain.

Harbinger could also be acting to defend the London Indoctrination Device.  He wants people drawn to it, yes, but an army running kamikaze at it threatens the destruction of the device, assuming it's on the ground.  He would still spare Shepard because he wants Shepard indoctrinated, but raze everyone else because they represent a collective threat.

If the beam would produce husks or kill everyone who touches it, or everybody passing it will lose contact. Nobody would follow after some time and the fleets may fall back.....in that case Reapers are still clever enough to have Shepard as a backup plan. Especially because there are millions who would risk everything to rescue Shepard, if he is alive. ( a quarian admiral, the Turian heiress to the thron, two human Admirals, the Shadow Broker, the Krogan leader,......)

[Makrys]

HellishFiend wrote...

Guys, do yourselves a favor and read that sound post at the top of the page. I cant be the only one excited about this. Am I not doing a good job of explaining how enormous a find this is?

I saw. Its VERY interesting. But still not deal closing material. Not quite. All it seems to be implying is that Coates was possibly indoctrinated. That would seemingly botch the whole 'London is a hallucination' deal. I'm not sure though, I need to think on this.

It sounds as if though... if we can find evidence of this low frequency sound in the ending, on the citadel, and with the catalyst, we may have our proof that Shepard is undergoing indoctrination attempts. Whether the ending is part hallucination, or full on dream, it would reveal SOMETHING with the Reapers is going on. As if its not already obvious, I think that would put it to rest.

Still, combine this with the weapon bob, London is getting weirder and weirder.

I wait to see what else TSA uncovers.

Modifié par Makrys, 15 juin 2012 - 01:19 .

[Arian Dynas]

HellishFiend wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

We're so excited we're speechless.

Please tell me you're not being sarcastic. 

Ah, but if I tell you that, you may worry about me being sarcastic about telling you I'm not sarcastic.

[paxxton]

HellishFiend wrote...

Guys, do yourselves a favor and read that sound post at the top of the page. I cant be the only one excited about this. Am I not doing a good job of explaining how enormous a find this is?

So you are sying that the sound artists decided to "shift" the infrasonic spectrum into a higher frequency because leaving it where it normally is would waste sound card resources on sounds that no average speaker can output. Basically, in the game 30Hz is considered infrasonic. Am I correct?

Modifié par paxxton, 15 juin 2012 - 01:21 .

[HellishFiend]

Makrys wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

Guys, do yourselves a favor and read that sound post at the top of the page. I cant be the only one excited about this. Am I not doing a good job of explaining how enormous a find this is?

I saw. Its VERY interesting. But still not deal closing material. Not quite. All it seems to be implying is that Coates was possibly indoctrinated. That would seemingly botch the whole 'London is a hallucination' deal. I'm not sure though, I need to think on this.

It sounds as if though... if we can find evidence of this low frequency sound in the ending, on the citadel, and with the catalyst, we may have our proof that Shepard is undergoing indoctrination attempts. Whether the ending is part hallucination, or full on dream, it would reveal SOMETHING is going on.

I wait to see what else TSA uncovers.

I guess I have failed to explain it well enough, then. Unless Bioware has just put it in there as some frivolous and pointless extrinsic joke, it is proof that an indoctrination signal being projected on Shepard whenever he is around Coats. Need I remind you the view bob starts when you resume gameplay after meeting Coates? 

[Gernbuster]

HellishFiend wrote...

Guys, do yourselves a favor and read that sound post at the top of the page. I cant be the only one excited about this. Am I not doing a good job of explaining how enormous a find this is?

It is that big, nobody can miss it ^^
It is very very interesting, but I don't know what to say about it., except GJ.
Very productive day for the Indoctrination Theory.

[TSA_383]

FFZero wrote...
*snip*

Very interesting stuff TSA!

Btw correct me if I’m wrong, but infrasound is anything lower in frequency than 20 Hz right? If so I may have found some evidence of infrasound being used in the dream sequences.

Technically yes, but ass Hellish was saying, once you get to sub-20:
a- nobody's going to be able to hear it.
b- 95% of sound systems gamers play on won't produce it.

26-31Hz is right in the range on the edge of human hearing, if you want some idea of just how low that is there's an awesome plugin here:

http://www.digital-r...st_st_help.html

Sub bass down at this level is very rarely used in music, when it is it's generally used as much for the feeling as for the sound. A steadyish tone at around this level won't be distracting, but gives a certain presence to the other sounds (in this case dialogue) in the scene.

And yeah, the dream sequences seem another logical place to look - basically the only tools you need to do this are:

-Audacity (free, on sourceforge)
-Avidemux (free, on sourceforge)

Then you need a video of the dream sequence, and you can rip the audio and do hanning windows on it like I've done I'll post up a tutorial if anyone fancies doing it.


Personally, my take on the whole thing is that Coates is indoctrinated and is re-broadcasting the indoctrination signal, perhaps? I lean towards the "london is real but perspective is increasingly distorted" more than the "it's all in his head" theory.

Modifié par TSA_383, 15 juin 2012 - 01:24 .

[EpyonX3]

HellishFiend wrote...

Guys, do yourselves a favor and read that sound post at the top of the page. I cant be the only one excited about this. Am I not doing a good job of explaining how enormous a find this is?

It's very interesting and I wouldn't be surprised if Coates is an undercover agent. I actually expected seeing more of this during ME3 before it was released. I was hoping that it would happen to a closer member of Shepard's team instead of Coates though.

[Makrys]

HellishFiend wrote...

Makrys wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

Guys, do yourselves a favor and read that sound post at the top of the page. I cant be the only one excited about this. Am I not doing a good job of explaining how enormous a find this is?

I saw. Its VERY interesting. But still not deal closing material. Not quite. All it seems to be implying is that Coates was possibly indoctrinated. That would seemingly botch the whole 'London is a hallucination' deal. I'm not sure though, I need to think on this.

It sounds as if though... if we can find evidence of this low frequency sound in the ending, on the citadel, and with the catalyst, we may have our proof that Shepard is undergoing indoctrination attempts. Whether the ending is part hallucination, or full on dream, it would reveal SOMETHING is going on.

I wait to see what else TSA uncovers.

I guess I have failed to explain it well enough, then. Unless Bioware has just put it in there as some frivolous and pointless extrinsic joke, it is proof that an indoctrination signal being projected on Shepard whenever he is around Coats. Need I remind you the view bob starts when you resume gameplay after meeting Coates? 

No, you don't. That's what I'm saying. It DOES sound like Coates is a 'signal booster'. Which would seemingly accelerate Shep's indoc. I'm just saying its not concrete evidence that the end was hallucinations. Not yet. Not London at least. And besides, I won't be slamming my flag into the ground until I hear a confirmation from Bioware or see it for myself in the EC. Still, all of this is just more compelling evidence to add to our ever growing pile. 

If TSA continues to find more of this, we need to send word of it to Parabolee.

Modifié par Makrys, 15 juin 2012 - 01:24 .

[FellishBeast]

HellishFiend wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

We're so excited we're speechless.

Please tell me you're not being sarcastic. 

Haven't been to this thread in awhile, but it seems like some heavy-duty speculations are happening here (the good kind, of course)

I found your findings very interesting. Would anyone mind showing me where I can find a write-up of this "Coates theory?" He really seemed out of place to me in the Earth mission, and I didn't really like him. The idea that he has a purpose, and an awesome one that could support IT at that, DOES excite me! I only wish I could take part in the discussion, but alas, I cannot read however many hundreds of pages I would need to read

[MegaSovereign]

If IT ends up being true, does anyone have a theory on how Bioware will actually resolve the plot? Especially considering EC is cutscene only, it just seems hard to believe.

I'm not an IT-believer. But don't let the sig fool you. My views of the ending have shifted a couple times by now. If someone presents me a strong enough argument, I won't dismiss it if it conflicts with mine.