55528 réponses à ce sujet

[HellishFiend]

ZerebusPrime wrote...
 I'm too busy casting Incinerate into the duct over and over again to look it up.

I was doing the same thing to the hull breach hole in Cronos station last night.

Hmm, for some reason that didnt sound right. 

[Arian Dynas]

[quote]MegaSovereign wrote...

Alright I read the official Extended Cut FAQ.

It doesn't say no new gameplay, but it implies that it's going to mainly be extended cinematics.

If Bioware was planning IT all along, then why does the Extended Cut announcement reads like a reaction to the fan flip-out. They even say "we are re-prioritizing Mass Effect 3's DLC schedule." That doesn't sound planned at all.[/quote]


*sigh* gotta dig this old post out again...

[quote]Arian Dynas wrote...

But, in address to the OP (And by the way, all the insults and such? Don't blame everyone who believes something different from what you do by the actions and words of a few elitists. And really, can you blame us for being defensive with the torches and pitchforks reaction we get?)

To be entirely honest with you?

I don't think the EC was planned at all.

Does that mean I doubt IT? Heck no.

I think that the EC is Bioware doing EXACTLY what they said, making things more clear so that people can comprehend the ending better. For the simple fact that I think and continue to beleive their DLC plan worked out something like this;

1). Start up the ANN twitter feed, giving "Live realtime accounts" of the war and the events leading up to it, place the timeline to start the invasion on March 6th.

2). Design Mass Effect 3, plant clues both subtle and obvious to draw the interest of the fans, the ending is designed to be strange, out of place, but ultimately fulfilling and capable of satisfying the fans for now. Multiplayer is implimented to keep fan interest up. Fans keep speculating about the strange, out of place ending, staying involved and interested where normally they would finish the game and that would be the end of their thoughts on the subject.

3). Do weekly multiplayer events to make sure that the fans keep playing, even the casual ones, also integrate a story into multiplayer, since A. That's what Bioware does, and B. It gets fans involved in the story, they get to feel like real soldiers in the war. Multiplayer events coincide with classified major operations in the war, usually announced by Admiral Hackett.

4). Release single player DLC which again raises fan involvement and interest and keeps them playing, as well as speculating as more evidence and information comes in over time, in the ANN timeline, it is announced via the Twitter feed (usually the day before) and launched on the dates the events take place on.

5). Release multiplayer packs, representing various forces that enter the war over time, such as the Quarians and more Krogan as forces swell and increase, reflecting the alliegance of various forces, as well as their maneuvers against the Reapers. Which also keeps ME3 in the front of fans minds, interested, involved. thinking about, speculating.

6). Keep updating the ANN twitter feed, which eventually reaches the date of Chronos Station and the Seige of Earth, then to great fanfare, a final ending DLC is released, in which it is revealed the ending was in fact a big mind **** and that Shepard was facing indoctrination, some fans having realized this before, they reveal the numbers from the legend saves, showing the number of people they "indoctrinated" before allowing people to download this DLC, which follows the choice from their Legendsave, forcing them to live with the choice they made, showing them a different result and mission depending on their choices.

7). Mac Walters and Casey Hudson share a bottle of bubbly with Dr. Musyka and Gamble.

Unfortunately, they flubbed the "satisifed" part of the ending, but got the "strange and out of place" part spot on, so they need to make it clearer that it was intentional, so to salvage their original plan, they have to make the EC, which they didn't expect to have to make, and thus they are forced to defend the artistic integrity of their ending, which was meant to be intentional, yet most fans refused to interpret from the get go, not having to expect interpretative value from a videogame. It explains their comments that they didn't expect to make the EC, why they seemed "hurt" that we didn't like the ending, why they defended their artistic integrity so hard, and why they refused to change the endings that are, from face value, a bunch of stinkers, but from IT perspective, are positively brilliant.

Though I don't expect them to be following their original plan now, from the fan backlash, they likely decided it was a far better idea to just make the EC and squeeze in the ending content they originally had planned, potentially sans combat to win back the fans.

And even better? The funny thing about it? They aren't losing out on this at all. The only thing on the line is their reputation, which assuming this whole thing was planned will get completely turned around.

Returned copies? They don't lose any money, the distributing franchises like Gamestop and Amazon do, (considering Origin flatly refused refunds) and the only thing they maybe lose from them is reputation, which if they turn it around by revealing this massive plot twist? They just earned back AND MORE.

Sold games? Put in the used bin? Cerberus network all over again baby, people buy those used games, they already got their money from producing them, now they get to charge an additional $15 for the actual ending. Cash money.

Well what about the people who sold their games? Wouldn't you go out to buy another copy of one of the greatest games ever that was suddenly vindicated by the most epic twist in videogame interactive storytelling history? Especially since now with an ending suited to it, it's perfect? They just sold the same game to a person TWICE. Jackpot.

Lost reputation due to the worst ending in videogame history? Not quite, it's now being actually advertised as "The Most Talked About Ending in Years!" and there's no advertisement like free advertisement, and you KNOW people will buy it out of morbid cuiriousity to see if the ending is really that bad, and plenty will remember the good parts and think "Hmm, that game was fantastic for 98%" and potentially go back to buy the other two. Ca-CHING!

And the prestige! (not the Christopher Nolan flick) Bioware suddenly will be rocketed to the top again as brilliant storytellers, completely vindicated in the eyes of even their most curmudgeonly fans after the supposed fiasco of DA2, as well as having pulled off a plot twist that would make M. Night Shamaylan cry in jealousy, something other developers will dream of copying, but being completely unable to, cementing Bioware's reputation as tops in the videogame storytelling biz. EA will have conquered their reputation as this evil monolithic company, concerned only with making money (yet ironically, will be making more bank than ever, hmm funny, seems people don't mind that when they get what they want out of it.)

And revealing something this big? After the treatment the ending got on the news, you can BET this will be plastered EVERYWHERE. Yet more free advertisement. Not to mention everyone and their literature professor will be talking about it and dissecting it ala Kubrickian methods for years to come (just like we are now) they will have cemented their place as videogame legends.

Not to mention this will be a HUGE jumping off point for an entire FRANCHISE, Mass Effect just became mainstream, nearly as much as Star Trek and Star Wars, with a feature length movie, comic books, videogames, statuettes, three award winning games, the top of their respective markets, novels, patches, tee shirts, anime, all dragged into the limelight.

Think about it greedily if you must, EA is full of smart, undeniably greedy people, do you honestly think they would possibly turn down a gold mine like this, with literally NO downside? With movies and anime and novels and every kind of merchandising swag under the sun coming out with the Mass Effect name, ME is a franchise they are pushing HARD. IT is a win-win suitation for them, if Bioware DIDN'T do it or plan it, EA would be leaning on them anyway TO do it, their artistic integrity be damned! And yet Bioware gets to pull off a first in gaming, a truly interactive, involving storytelling experience, involving REAL roleplaying (not just Paragon and Renegade choices) with actual interprative vaue just like any well written novel, and a genuine artistic value.

It is literally a win-win suitation. And If I can think of it, you can bet your bollocks that EA and Bioware would. [/quote]
[/quote]

Oh and proving the other point, read this; http://social.biowar.../index/12095313

[Dwailing]

 OK, this infrasound stuff is truly fascinating.  I think it's some of the most compelling stuff we have.  I mean, why would Bioware put it in, if not as a hint for IT?  It just seems like it would be unnecessary in a face value interpretation.  And if Bioware is as lazy as many of the Literalists claim, then why would they put this in here?

[EpyonX3]

MegaSovereign wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

Alright I read the official Extended Cut FAQ.

It doesn't say no new gameplay, but it implies that it's going to mainly be extended cinematics.

If Bioware was planning IT all along, then why does the Extended Cut announcement reads like a reaction to the fan flip-out. They even say "we are re-prioritizing Mass Effect 3's DLC schedule." That doesn't sound planned at all.

I'm not speaking for the theorists but I believe the general consensus is that we were supposed to get it and move on.

IT was planned. EC explaining IT wasn't.

I don't believe either but it's still possible.

So...They originally planned to leave it like this? Mass Effect 3 ending without an ending?

I'm sorry but even if Bioware did roll with IT, there is NO WAY that this was how they planned it.

Right I agree, but here's never a 100% certainty.

Just like people were 100% certain that ME3's ending was going to be the most epic ending to a video game.

Not the case if you take it literally.

[paxxton]

EpyonX3 wrote...

paxxton wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

paxxton wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...



Listen to Vendetta's words well.

"You are attempting to recover me from Indoctrinated forces."

is there a whistling sound?

Que?

Whistling sound while he speaks. I think I heard that.

No I meant listen to what he actually says. There's still no indication that Shepard is or is under the process of indoctrination from Vendetta.

Oh, but his security protocols have been breached. He may no longer have the ability to sense indoctrination.

[HellishFiend]

FFZero wrote...

TSA_383 wrote...

FFZero wrote...
*snip*

Very interesting stuff TSA!

Btw correct me if I’m wrong, but infrasound is anything lower in frequency than 20 Hz right? If so I may have found some evidence of infrasound being used in the dream sequences.

Technically yes, but ass Hellish was saying, once you get to sub-20:
a- nobody's going to be able to hear it.
b- 95% of sound systems gamers play on won't produce it.

26-31Hz is right in the range on the edge of human hearing, if you want some idea of just how low that is there's an awesome plugin here:

http://www.digital-r...st_st_help.html

Sub bass down at this level is very rarely used in music, when it is it's generally used as much for the feeling as for the sound. A steadyish tone at around this level won't be distracting, but gives a certain presence to the other sounds (in this case dialogue) in the scene.

And yeah, the dream sequences seem another logical place to look - basically the only tools you need to do this are:

-Audacity (free, on sourceforge)
-Avidemux (free, on sourceforge)

Then you need a video of the dream sequence, and you can rip the audio and do hanning windows on it like I've done I'll post up a tutorial if anyone fancies doing it.

Well I'm on a PC so I've been able to extract the in game sounds files and according to audacity ALL of the weird sounds used in the dreams have infrasound. Here’s a few of them.

Hrm. Unfortunately there isnt a whole lot we can derive from that since we have no basis for comparison. Dream sequences are dream sequences. The only way we could derive anything from it is if we find a matching pattern anywhere in "waking" gameplay, or something like that. 

[TSA_383]

FFZero wrote...

TSA_383 wrote...

FFZero wrote...
*snip*

Very interesting stuff TSA!

Btw correct me if I’m wrong, but infrasound is anything lower in frequency than 20 Hz right? If so I may have found some evidence of infrasound being used in the dream sequences.

Technically yes, but ass Hellish was saying, once you get to sub-20:
a- nobody's going to be able to hear it.
b- 95% of sound systems gamers play on won't produce it.

26-31Hz is right in the range on the edge of human hearing, if you want some idea of just how low that is there's an awesome plugin here:

http://www.digital-r...st_st_help.html

Sub bass down at this level is very rarely used in music, when it is it's generally used as much for the feeling as for the sound. A steadyish tone at around this level won't be distracting, but gives a certain presence to the other sounds (in this case dialogue) in the scene.

And yeah, the dream sequences seem another logical place to look - basically the only tools you need to do this are:

-Audacity (free, on sourceforge)
-Avidemux (free, on sourceforge)

Then you need a video of the dream sequence, and you can rip the audio and do hanning windows on it like I've done I'll post up a tutorial if anyone fancies doing it.

Well I'm on a PC so I've been able to extract the in game sounds files and according to audacity ALL of the weird sounds used in the dreams have infrasound. Here’s a few of them.

Heh, sweet

Yeah, this was another scene that made my speakers shuffle about


Out of curiosity, which sound gave you the middle one? that's a hell of an infrasonic signal...

paxxton wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

paxxton wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

Guys,
do yourselves a favor and read that sound post at the top of the page. I
cant be the only one excited about this. Am I not doing a good job of
explaining how enormous a find this is?

So you are sying
that the sound artists decided to "shift" the infrasonic spectrum into a
higher frequency because leaving it where it normally is would waste
sound card resources on sounds that no average speaker can output.
Basically, in the game 30Hz is considered infrasonic. Am I
correct?

Yes. Since the vast majority of sound systems
wont even reproduce true infrasound since it is mostly inaudible, I'm
postulating that they added the 30hz hum to call attention to it. 

But I remember someone found real infrasonic sounds using a pro speaker system.

That was me

The only problem with it was that the filter I used was 24dB/octave - that is, at 30Hz it would reduce the volume by a lot, but not so much that with that as a very loud signal it wouldn't play that too. There did seem to be a substantial component down at 15Hz too, though, like in the dream sequence files above.

[HellishFiend]

Dwailing wrote...

 OK, this infrasound stuff is truly fascinating.  I think it's some of the most compelling stuff we have.  I mean, why would Bioware put it in, if not as a hint for IT?  It just seems like it would be unnecessary in a face value interpretation.  And if Bioware is as lazy as many of the Literalists claim, then why would they put this in here?

I addressed those topics in my post. The straight answer is, they wouldnt. They just wouldnt. Unless Coats being indoctrinated is just some extrinsic nonsense that has no effect on the plot, its a major score for IT. 

Modifié par HellishFiend, 15 juin 2012 - 01:46 .

[EpyonX3]

paxxton wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

paxxton wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

paxxton wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...



Listen to Vendetta's words well.

"You are attempting to recover me from Indoctrinated forces."

is there a whistling sound?

Que?

Whistling sound while he speaks. I think I heard that.

No I meant listen to what he actually says. There's still no indication that Shepard is or is under the process of indoctrination from Vendetta.

Oh, but his security protocols have been breached. He may no longer have the ability to sense indoctrination.

"You are attempting to recover me from Indoctrinated forces"

He's still very much aware of who's indoctrinated or not. The only thing they messed with was his protocol to keep quiet about the crucible to indoctrinated people. Not his ability necessarily his ability to detected them.

[Dwailing]

Hey, Epyon, were you making YouTube videos opposing us?

[EpyonX3]

HellishFiend wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

 OK, this infrasound stuff is truly fascinating.  I think it's some of the most compelling stuff we have.  I mean, why would Bioware put it in, if not as a hint for IT?  It just seems like it would be unnecessary in a face value interpretation.  And if Bioware is as lazy as many of the Literalists claim, then why would they put this in here?

I addressed those topics in my post. The straight answer is, they wouldnt. They just wouldnt. Either Coats being indoctrinated is just some extrinsic nonsense that has no effect on the plot, its a major score for IT. 

I honestly hate the Bioware is Lazy thing. I don't see many literalists call bioware lazy. And the ones that do are trolls. Heck I got accused of it myself.

[Big Bad]

EpyonX3 wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

Alright I read the official Extended Cut FAQ.

It doesn't say no new gameplay, but it implies that it's going to mainly be extended cinematics.

If Bioware was planning IT all along, then why does the Extended Cut announcement reads like a reaction to the fan flip-out. They even say "we are re-prioritizing Mass Effect 3's DLC schedule." That doesn't sound planned at all.

I'm not speaking for the theorists but I believe the general consensus is that we were supposed to get it and move on.

IT was planned. EC explaining IT wasn't.

I don't believe either but it's still possible.

Hmmm...if that's the consensus opinion, it's new to me.  The idea that I see tossed around most frequently is that BW assumed we would be more-or-less accepting of the endings we now have, with some people picking up on IT, but probably most being oblivious to it.  Then at some point after the game's release, they would put out new DLC that would blow everybody's minds with IT goodness.

[HellishFiend]

TSA_383 wrote...

Heh, sweet

Yeah, this was another scene that made my speakers shuffle about


Out of curiosity, which sound gave you the middle one? that's a hell of an infrasonic signal...

I agree. That second one is very suspect and I am tempted to draw a rash conclusion on it, but I will hold off. 

Assuming that one is from the second dream though, I have personally always found the second dream to be the most... powerful? Not sure what word to use. The whispering and Reaper sounds are very blatant, loud, and disturbing. You can also stay in that dream for a long period of time, and the whispers/Reaper sounds get very prominent as you approach the child for the last time. 

[FFZero]

TSA_383 wrote...

FFZero wrote...

Well I'm on a PC so I've been able to extract the in game sounds files and according to audacity ALL of the weird sounds used in the dreams have infrasound. Here’s a few of them.

*snip*

Heh, sweet

Yeah, this was another scene that made my speakers shuffle about


Out of curiosity, which sound gave you the middle one? that's a hell of an infrasonic signal...

The file name is wwise_norhub_dreams.005

Modifié par FFZero, 15 juin 2012 - 01:47 .

[byne]

Dwailing wrote...

Hey, Epyon, were you making YouTube videos opposing us?

He's been doing that forever. I dont know why people keep telling me Epyon used to believe IT.

[paxxton]

EpyonX3 wrote...

paxxton wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

paxxton wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

paxxton wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...



Listen to Vendetta's words well.

"You are attempting to recover me from Indoctrinated forces."

is there a whistling sound?

Que?

Whistling sound while he speaks. I think I heard that.

No I meant listen to what he actually says. There's still no indication that Shepard is or is under the process of indoctrination from Vendetta.

Oh, but his security protocols have been breached. He may no longer have the ability to sense indoctrination.

"You are attempting to recover me from Indoctrinated forces"

He's still very much aware of who's indoctrinated or not. The only thing they messed with was his protocol to keep quiet about the crucible to indoctrinated people. Not his ability necessarily his ability to detected them.

Vendetta surely sensed TIM's and Kai Leng's indoctrination before the protocols were sabotaged and stored that data in his memory so that he didn't have to waste processing power on repeating the same thing.

Modifié par paxxton, 15 juin 2012 - 01:48 .

[HellishFiend]

TSA_383 wrote...

That was me

The only problem with it was that the filter I used was 24dB/octave - that is, at 30Hz it would reduce the volume by a lot, but not so much that with that as a very loud signal it wouldn't play that too. There did seem to be a substantial component down at 15Hz too, though, like in the dream sequence files above.

You know what, I bet they were counting on someone like you finding it by coming along and doing just that. Why else would it be there? I would have done it too, had I the equipment, but I spent my dollars on high end consumer grade home theater gear rather than professional equipment that I could play with. 

Maybe I should regret that decision...

*looks at his triple 12" subwoofer*

Naaahhhh... 

Modifié par HellishFiend, 15 juin 2012 - 01:48 .

[Baa Baa]

Dwailing wrote...

 OK, this infrasound stuff is truly fascinating.  I think it's some of the most compelling stuff we have.  I mean, why would Bioware put it in, if not as a hint for IT?  It just seems like it would be unnecessary in a face value interpretation.  And if Bioware is as lazy as many of the Literalists claim, then why would they put this in here?

Wait, what infrasound stuff

[HellishFiend]

Baa Baa wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

 OK, this infrasound stuff is truly fascinating.  I think it's some of the most compelling stuff we have.  I mean, why would Bioware put it in, if not as a hint for IT?  It just seems like it would be unnecessary in a face value interpretation.  And if Bioware is as lazy as many of the Literalists claim, then why would they put this in here?

Wait, what infrasound stuff

Couple pages back. Here you go:
http://social.biowar...32/771#12581175 

[deltacypresss]

Does that contain the frequency that makes people freak out or feel a dark presence? i remember a lot of supposed haunted places had a certain ultra low frequency that made people feel like they were being watched among other things.

i'm going to go check what that frequency actually is. Or if i am even using the correct terminology.


edit: From the wiki "
One study has suggested that infrasound may cause feelings of awe or fear in humans. It was also suggested that since it is not consciously perceived, it can make people feel vaguely that supernatural events are taking place ."

and the source. www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3077192/#.T9qU5rVYtYU

Modifié par deltacypresss, 15 juin 2012 - 01:51 .

[Baa Baa]

HellishFiend wrote...

Baa Baa wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

 OK, this infrasound stuff is truly fascinating.  I think it's some of the most compelling stuff we have.  I mean, why would Bioware put it in, if not as a hint for IT?  It just seems like it would be unnecessary in a face value interpretation.  And if Bioware is as lazy as many of the Literalists claim, then why would they put this in here?

Wait, what infrasound stuff

Couple pages back. Here you go:
http://social.biowar...32/771#12581175 

Interesting stuff, thanks

[EpyonX3]

byne wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

Hey, Epyon, were you making YouTube videos opposing us?

He's been doing that forever. I dont know why people keep telling me Epyon used to believe IT.

I was actually posting videos of both support and opposition of IT. That was before I came to BSN. I just started finding more opposition than support but I wasn't ready to go against it outright until recently.

[HellishFiend]

deltacypresss wrote...

Does that contain the frequency that makes people freak out or feel a dark presence? i remember a lot of supposed haunted places had a certain ultra low frequency that made people feel like they were being watched among other things.

i'm going to go check what that frequency actually is. Or if i am even using the correct terminology.

You're more or less using the right terminology. And the answer is yes, these are the frequencies that can make people feel adverse effects. However, most consumer grade audio gear cant produce those frequencies at sufficient pressure levels to cause any harm. In fact, many more expensive home theater pieces wont even allow the speakers to reproduce those frequencies at any significant level, in order to prevent damage to the equipment. 

[llbountyhunter]

 ok guys, I updated the thread (added Bills argument) talking about common flawed arguments against IT.

http://social.biowar.../index/12547432 


I got tired of repeatedly answering these questions..... <_<   so now I'll just direct them to that site, intead of individually responding to them.

feel free to use it yourself whenever someone brings them up!!



also tell me if you think I should add anything.

[Makrys]

I do think the EC was planned. Maybe not in the way its going right now, and if I catch Arian's drift with his blog post (which I've read before and mostly agree with), he's saying they DID plan on releasing a DLC to reveal the twist. However, it was not the 'EC', or should I say, it was not going to be the first DLC they released. IF that is what you are implying, Arian, then I agree. If you are however stating that they meant for the ending to be interpreted as the IT, yet were never going to clarify, I disagree strongly.

Too many of their own statements go against the EC not being planned. Subtle hints are everywhere. Including Weekes tweet which basically said the EC was not a response, but has been in the works.

I DO NOT believe that Bioware intended to just leave us with the current ending. I think they planned to release a DLC, EC, whatever you want to call it, post-release to reveal the big twist and give us the 'real' endings.

I also do not believe they ever intended to charge for it. I have a theory about the EC being free and how it could relate to the Day One DLC. But regardless, the DLC was planned. There is no other way they could end the story if the IT is true.

The IT specifically says Shepard has not destroyed the Reapers, so therefore a DLC is required to actually finish the fight. What indeed is up for debate is whether or not they expected this much of a backlash, and therefore re-prioritized their schedule to release the EC first rather than later. That, I believe is understandable and even highly likely.

But case and point, there was always plans for an ending DLC. There's no way around that.