Ce sujet est fermé
Dwailing wrote...
Hey, Epyon, were you making YouTube videos opposing us?
paxxton wrote...
Vendetta surely sensed TIM's and Kai Leng's indoctrination before the protocols were sabotaged and stored that data in his memory so that he didn't have to waste processing power on repeating the same thing.EpyonX3 wrote...
paxxton wrote...
Oh, but his security protocols have been breached. He may no longer have the ability to sense indoctrination.EpyonX3 wrote...
paxxton wrote...
Whistling sound while he speaks. I think I heard that.EpyonX3 wrote...
paxxton wrote...
is there a whistling sound?EpyonX3 wrote...
Listen to Vendetta's words well.
"You are attempting to recover me from Indoctrinated forces."
Que?
No I meant listen to what he actually says. There's still no indication that Shepard is or is under the process of indoctrination from Vendetta.
"You are attempting to recover me from Indoctrinated forces"
He's still very much aware of who's indoctrinated or not. The only thing they messed with was his protocol to keep quiet about the crucible to indoctrinated people. Not his ability necessarily his ability to detected them.
This is typically cited as 15-19Hz.deltacypresss wrote...
Does that contain the frequency that makes people freak out or feel a dark presence? i remember a lot of supposed haunted places had a certain ultra low frequency that made people feel like they were being watched among other things.
i'm going to go check what that frequency actually is. Or if i am even using the correct terminology.
edit: From the wiki "
One study has suggested that infrasound may cause feelings of awe or fear in humans. It was also suggested that since it is not consciously perceived, it can make people feel vaguely that supernatural events are taking place ."
and the source. www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3077192/#.T9qU5rVYtYU
Arian Dynas wrote...
Reposting for new page, the idea that having only two dialogue choices instead of the standard three might be an intentional stylistic choice.Arian Dynas wrote...
HellishFiend wrote...
Ytook wrote...
I'm sure this had been mentioned but what the hell. I find the way the decision chamber is laid very odd, it seems to do obviously point towards synthesis, it's strait ahead and it's glowing extremely brightly, it's slap bang in the middle of your view and if you don't have enough EMS to achieve it then it lies tantalisingly out of view mocking you because you failed to be worthy of it. As well as simply what the child says the layout of the room makes destroy and control look and feel like deviations, as you move away from the pretty lights. Destroy is an uninteresting tube bathed in red light and looks dark and forboding (even without the child's assertions of doom and gloom). Control gives off light and looks more appealing but is 'spiky' and dangerous looking, tantalising you with power but warning against what having such power might do. While synthesis looks warm and inviting, it's impossible not to see and it's tinged a pleasant green, a brand new option in a game where you've been choosing between two visual (as well as ideological) extremes, and green is of course the colour of peace and stability, it's a visual representative of the positive ('yes' and 'go'), and it's the colour of nature and naturalism. Everything, and I mean everything, is pointing you towards synthesis both visually, aurally and through the child's words, despite even a cursory glance revealing it to be everything you've fought against for the past 150 hours. There is no balance of any sort in the choices whatsoever, and in a series (and from a developer) famous for moral conundrums without right answers that presentation is so bizarre and out of place, that it can only be deliberate and ingeniously malicious.
... or maybe I'm just hoping too hard.
Not at all. It's a fair and logical symbolic analysis of the decision chamber. I like it.
Come to think of it. Maybe THAT's the real reason there is no center option for dialogue anymore. We're stuck between extremes, and Shepard himself THINKS in extremes, the developers explicitly told us, it is hard for Shepard to feel middling about the Reapers.
So why then do we have Synthesis? The definition of middling against the Reapers?
paxxton wrote...
Epyon, post a new pic for the game!
Makrys wrote...
I do think the EC was planned. Maybe not in the way its going right now, and if I catch Arian's drift with his blog post (which I've read before and mostly agree with), he's saying they DID plan on releasing a DLC to reveal the twist. However, it was not the 'EC', or should I say, it was not going to be the first DLC they released. IF that is what you are implying, Arian, then I agree. If you are however stating that they meant for the ending to be interpreted as the IT, yet were never going to clarify, I disagree strongly.
Too many of their own statements go against the EC not being planned. Subtle hints are everywhere. Including Weekes tweet which basically said the EC was not a response, but has been in the works.
I DO NOT believe that Bioware intended to just leave us with the current ending. I think they planned to release a DLC, EC, whatever you want to call it, post-release to reveal the big twist and give us the 'real' endings.
I also do not believe they ever intended to charge for it. I have a theory about the EC being free and how it could relate to the Day One DLC. But regardless, the DLC was planned. There is no other way they could end the story if the IT is true.
The IT specifically says Shepard has not destroyed the Reapers, so therefore a DLC is required to actually finish the fight. What indeed is up for debate is whether or not they expected this much of a backlash, and therefore re-prioritized their schedule to release the EC first rather than later. That, I believe is understandable and even highly likely.
But case and point, there was always plans for an ending DLC. There's no way around that.
The protoc loads info from memory. This is one thing. But then it interprets it. This is another. Vendetta knows who was indoctrinated before he was hacked but can't interpret that info to protect his data.EpyonX3 wrote...
paxxton wrote...
Vendetta surely sensed TIM's and Kai Leng's indoctrination before the protocols were sabotaged and stored that data in his memory so that he didn't have to waste processing power on repeating the same thing.EpyonX3 wrote...
paxxton wrote...
Oh, but his security protocols have been breached. He may no longer have the ability to sense indoctrination.EpyonX3 wrote...
paxxton wrote...
Whistling sound while he speaks. I think I heard that.EpyonX3 wrote...
paxxton wrote...
is there a whistling sound?EpyonX3 wrote...
Listen to Vendetta's words well.
"You are attempting to recover me from Indoctrinated forces."
Que?
No I meant listen to what he actually says. There's still no indication that Shepard is or is under the process of indoctrination from Vendetta.
"You are attempting to recover me from Indoctrinated forces"
He's still very much aware of who's indoctrinated or not. The only thing they messed with was his protocol to keep quiet about the crucible to indoctrinated people. Not his ability necessarily his ability to detected them.
In that case then hacking his ability to sense indoctrination would have failed to get TIM what he wanted since Vendetta would just be able to remember who's indoctrinated and his security protocols would still kick in.
Ytook wrote...
Also I've been thinking about the 'unlocking' of synthesis, it's a common argument against IT that goes, 'why would you have to work to unlock something the reapers want?' but if anything the fact that you have to unlock it has always bothered me, and I think it actually works for IT by further unbalancing decisions usually balanced.
As I said in my previous post (and has been discussed a lot before me) synthesis is made out to be the ultimate best option by the game, everything is working to make it appealing even at a psychological level, and even in the terms of how we expect a game to work, making it an unlock only works to make it more appealing, to sucker you further in.
Something that is harder to earn is naturally more apealing when it is earned, a system drilled into gamers heads inparticular (ever used loot in a game because it's harder to get even if it's technically worse? I know I have), all this works to further imbalance the final choice in favour of synthesis. Not only does the room and the Catalyst make synthesis seem gooy and squishy and fragrant and wonderful and positively chocolatey (I'm kind of surprised there aren't dancing unicorns in the synthesis beam the game is so weighted towards it) but the mechanics of it being earned only add to it's appeal.
If you don't earn it the Catalyst berates you, insults you, the path going strait ahead to the gorgeous beam of lovely peaceful light literally doesn't appear, the game is pointing you towards it but you can't reach it, you can't have it, you failed. All this making accepting the reapers philosophies all the more appealing.
I know a lot of people think that control is the 'worse' way to give in to indoctrination but I actually think synthesis is by far in a way the worse option in regards to IT. Synthesis is inaction, 'All that evil needs to succeed is for good men to do nothing' and that's what synthesis is, it's accepting their philosophy and lying down, Shepard just jumps and falls, nothing more. In control s/he at least is attempting something, even if ultimately doomed. Saren, synthesis' poster boy, is in direct league with the reapers, he may believe he's doing it to achieve a small victory in the face of inevitable defeat but he was still their willing ally. TIM at least believed he was fighting them, even if he was being subtly manipulated into helping the reapers he at least believed he was playing Stalin to their Hitler.
(And before anybody accuses me of trying to slightly justify picking control under, I actually picked synthesis on my one and only playthrough, I was drawb in by the bright lights, promises of peace and sense of 'achievement' from unlocking it)
Modifié par Ytook, 15 juin 2012 - 02:03 .
llbountyhunter wrote...
yeah, I think a ending DLC was planned, but the final details on it were not. bioware clearly wanted some wiggle room in order to listen to fan feedback, and possibly, to refine IT.
Arian Dynas wrote...
No worries Ytook. I'm getting slighty vexed by certain people not reading certain things too. -.-
Ytook wrote...
I'm going to be rude and annoying and repost my own comment from just a few pages ago as it got lost in the (excellent) infrasound discussion and I was wondering what people thought about my rumblings:
Edit: Didn't mean that to be a comment on Arian reporting stuff (and my stuff very kindly of him), I just read it back and it sounded like I was making a snarky comment which I'm definatly not.Ytook wrote...
Also I've been thinking about the 'unlocking' of synthesis, it's a common argument against IT that goes, 'why would you have to work to unlock something the reapers want?' but if anything the fact that you have to unlock it has always bothered me, and I think it actually works for IT by further unbalancing decisions usually balanced.
As I said in my previous post (and has been discussed a lot before me) synthesis is made out to be the ultimate best option by the game, everything is working to make it appealing even at a psychological level, and even in the terms of how we expect a game to work, making it an unlock only works to make it more appealing, to sucker you further in.
Something that is harder to earn is naturally more apealing when it is earned, a system drilled into gamers heads inparticular (ever used loot in a game because it's harder to get even if it's technically worse? I know I have), all this works to further imbalance the final choice in favour of synthesis. Not only does the room and the Catalyst make synthesis seem gooy and squishy and fragrant and wonderful and positively chocolatey (I'm kind of surprised there aren't dancing unicorns in the synthesis beam the game is so weighted towards it) but the mechanics of it being earned only add to it's appeal.
If you don't earn it the Catalyst berates you, insults you, the path going strait ahead to the gorgeous beam of lovely peaceful light literally doesn't appear, the game is pointing you towards it but you can't reach it, you can't have it, you failed. All this making accepting the reapers philosophies all the more appealing.
I know a lot of people think that control is the 'worse' way to give in to indoctrination but I actually think synthesis is by far in a way the worse option in regards to IT. Synthesis is inaction, 'All that evil needs to succeed is for good men to do nothing' and that's what synthesis is, it's accepting their philosophy and lying down, Shepard just jumps and falls, nothing more. In control s/he at least is attempting something, even if ultimately doomed. Saren, synthesis' poster boy, is in direct league with the reapers, he may believe he's doing it to achieve a small victory in the face of inevitable defeat but he was still their willing ally. TIM at least believed he was fighting them, even if he was being subtly manipulated into helping the reapers he at least believed he was playing Stalin to their Hitler.
(And before anybody accuses me of trying to slightly justify picking control under, I actually picked synthesis on my one and only playthrough, I was drawb in by the bright lights, promises of peace and sense of 'achievement' from unlocking it
ThisOneIsPunny wrote...
Arian Dynas wrote...
No worries Ytook. I'm getting slighty vexed by certain people not reading certain things too. -.-
I, however, am having the time of my life reading everything being reposted and I think now is an ample time to tell everyone how much I love them.
Ytook wrote...
I'm going to be rude and annoying and repost my own comment from just a few pages ago as it got lost in the (excellent) infrasound discussion and I was wondering what people thought about my rumblings:
Edit: Didn't mean that to be a comment on Arian reporting stuff (and my stuff very kindly of him), I just read it back and it sounded like I was making a snarky comment which I'm definatly not.Ytook wrote...
Also I've been thinking about the 'unlocking' of synthesis, it's a common argument against IT that goes, 'why would you have to work to unlock something the reapers want?' but if anything the fact that you have to unlock it has always bothered me, and I think it actually works for IT by further unbalancing decisions usually balanced.
As I said in my previous post (and has been discussed a lot before me) synthesis is made out to be the ultimate best option by the game, everything is working to make it appealing even at a psychological level, and even in the terms of how we expect a game to work, making it an unlock only works to make it more appealing, to sucker you further in.
Something that is harder to earn is naturally more apealing when it is earned, a system drilled into gamers heads inparticular (ever used loot in a game because it's harder to get even if it's technically worse? I know I have), all this works to further imbalance the final choice in favour of synthesis. Not only does the room and the Catalyst make synthesis seem gooy and squishy and fragrant and wonderful and positively chocolatey (I'm kind of surprised there aren't dancing unicorns in the synthesis beam the game is so weighted towards it) but the mechanics of it being earned only add to it's appeal.
If you don't earn it the Catalyst berates you, insults you, the path going strait ahead to the gorgeous beam of lovely peaceful light literally doesn't appear, the game is pointing you towards it but you can't reach it, you can't have it, you failed. All this making accepting the reapers philosophies all the more appealing.
I know a lot of people think that control is the 'worse' way to give in to indoctrination but I actually think synthesis is by far in a way the worse option in regards to IT. Synthesis is inaction, 'All that evil needs to succeed is for good men to do nothing' and that's what synthesis is, it's accepting their philosophy and lying down, Shepard just jumps and falls, nothing more. In control s/he at least is attempting something, even if ultimately doomed. Saren, synthesis' poster boy, is in direct league with the reapers, he may believe he's doing it to achieve a small victory in the face of inevitable defeat but he was still their willing ally. TIM at least believed he was fighting them, even if he was being subtly manipulated into helping the reapers he at least believed he was playing Stalin to their Hitler.
(And before anybody accuses me of trying to slightly justify picking control under, I actually picked synthesis on my one and only playthrough, I was drawb in by the bright lights, promises of peace and sense of 'achievement' from unlocking it
llbountyhunter wrote...
Makrys wrote...
I do think the EC was planned. Maybe not in the way its going right now, and if I catch Arian's drift with his blog post (which I've read before and mostly agree with), he's saying they DID plan on releasing a DLC to reveal the twist. However, it was not the 'EC', or should I say, it was not going to be the first DLC they released. IF that is what you are implying, Arian, then I agree. If you are however stating that they meant for the ending to be interpreted as the IT, yet were never going to clarify, I disagree strongly.
Too many of their own statements go against the EC not being planned. Subtle hints are everywhere. Including Weekes tweet which basically said the EC was not a response, but has been in the works.
I DO NOT believe that Bioware intended to just leave us with the current ending. I think they planned to release a DLC, EC, whatever you want to call it, post-release to reveal the big twist and give us the 'real' endings.
I also do not believe they ever intended to charge for it. I have a theory about the EC being free and how it could relate to the Day One DLC. But regardless, the DLC was planned. There is no other way they could end the story if the IT is true.
The IT specifically says Shepard has not destroyed the Reapers, so therefore a DLC is required to actually finish the fight. What indeed is up for debate is whether or not they expected this much of a backlash, and therefore re-prioritized their schedule to release the EC first rather than later. That, I believe is understandable and even highly likely.
But case and point, there was always plans for an ending DLC. There's no way around that.
yeah, I think a ending DLC was planned, but the final details on it were not. bioware clearly wanted some wiggle room in order to listen to fan feedback, and possibly, to refine IT.
Modifié par Makrys, 15 juin 2012 - 02:12 .
Arian Dynas wrote...
I disagree. Control is inaction, Control is checking out, giving them your body and letting them have you. Synthesis is agreeing with them, accepting their point of view and coming around to their way of thinking.
Arian Dynas wrote...
ThisOneIsPunny wrote...
Arian Dynas wrote...
No worries Ytook. I'm getting slighty vexed by certain people not reading certain things too. -.-
I, however, am having the time of my life reading everything being reposted and I think now is an ample time to tell everyone how much I love them.
Thank you Punny.
HellishFiend wrote...
Arian Dynas wrote...
I disagree. Control is inaction, Control is checking out, giving them your body and letting them have you. Synthesis is agreeing with them, accepting their point of view and coming around to their way of thinking.
Actually I'm gonna have to go with Ytook's reasoning on this one. Your conclusion is based on what "makes sense", whereas Ytook's is based on precedent, lore, and the way the decision plays out in the initial cutscene (working hard to grab the control handles instead of just flinging himself off a ledge and falling).
Arian Dynas wrote...
I disagree. Control is inaction, Control is checking out, giving them your body and letting them have you. Synthesis is agreeing with them, accepting their point of view and coming around to their way of thinking.
Arian Dynas wrote...
HellishFiend wrote...
Arian Dynas wrote...
I disagree. Control is inaction, Control is checking out, giving them your body and letting them have you. Synthesis is agreeing with them, accepting their point of view and coming around to their way of thinking.
Actually I'm gonna have to go with Ytook's reasoning on this one. Your conclusion is based on what "makes sense", whereas Ytook's is based on precedent, lore, and the way the decision plays out in the initial cutscene (working hard to grab the control handles instead of just flinging himself off a ledge and falling).
You are told you will lose your body, and either way you are making an effort, it's just which effort are you making? Do you fight the whole way in an ultimately fruitless attempt? Or do you dive wholeheartedly into the unknown?
Modifié par HellishFiend, 15 juin 2012 - 02:21 .
Modifié par ZerebusPrime, 15 juin 2012 - 02:22 .
Modifié par Makrys, 15 juin 2012 - 02:21 .
Makrys wrote...
Does anyone remember this? I find it very odd.
I've been meaning to inquire about it for some time now, but just never got around to it. Was this ever explained, as to what the hell was going on with the Normandy? I don't recall and have never seen it discussed.
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