55528 réponses à ce sujet

[HellishFiend]

Salient Archer wrote...

@Hellish: Thanks, I actually feel it your post does give a broader explanation to the situation than what I initially had provided, I'll flex it and finess it to fit.

Cool, sounds good! I'll go over the whole thing again too and let you know if I think of anything else. 

[asdfsdadfs]

byne wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

ZerebusPrime wrote...

It just hit me. Coates is the only soldier other than Shepard to brave the hail of Harbinger-fire and survive (possible exception of Anderson).

We never truly see Coates (or Anderson for that matter) take part in the charge. We only see a bunch of redshirt alliance troops faceplanting into Harby's attacks. 

I'm still convinced Sarge planned that charge.

Unfortunately, Harbinger is immune to flabbergastry. 

[MegaSovereign]

HellishFiend wrote...

Oh yeah, and it was also pointed out that there is symbolism in the Chess game with Traynor. Shepard remarks about how blindly charging forward with his pawns should work, and Traynor proves him wrong.

Acting out one's strategic beliefs is a common thing to see in a dream. I'm looking at you, redshirt alliance troops charging the beam....

I wouldn't say that's really part of the IT.

That's like saying shepard has bad dancing skills because the sound frequencies coming from indoctrination is affecting his balance.

[Auralius Carolus]

HellishFiend wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

On the Coates theory:

I don't remember him being douchey. He was a bit pessimistic but I just assumed that was because of how strong of a force the Reapers are.

I agree, and I felt the same way on my first non-spoiler playthrough. Like many, I thought he was "off" in a "who is this guy and who does he think he is?" kind of way, but didnt take it beyond that. However if you consider what he says in his theory about how absolutely nobody calls him out on his overtly negative attitude, which is very atypical, it starts to look like a theme. 

That is moderately compelling on its own, but when you add the infrasound discovery to it, it's looking pretty darn convincing. 

Infrasound? Can you give a short explanation on that?

I thought you caught that post, sorry. Here it is:

http://social.biowar...32/771#12581175

The short explanation is that we are presented with a hallmark of indoctrination when Coates is around Shepard. Infrasonic noise. And a big part of that clue is that it's not even detectable unless you analyze the sound signal with professional equipment or software. It was put there deliberately, following Coates around like a theme song. 

So he isn't just indoctrinated, he's being used to affect those around him. And that likely is what is going on with Shepard; Vega isn't indoctrinated, he's hearing the amplified signal coming from Shepard... a signal most adult humans can't register.

[HellishFiend]

MegaSovereign wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

Oh yeah, and it was also pointed out that there is symbolism in the Chess game with Traynor. Shepard remarks about how blindly charging forward with his pawns should work, and Traynor proves him wrong.

Acting out one's strategic beliefs is a common thing to see in a dream. I'm looking at you, redshirt alliance troops charging the beam....

I wouldn't say that's really part of the IT.

That's like saying shepard has bad dancing skills because the sound frequencies coming from indoctrination is affecting his balance.

To clarify, a lot of us are starting to sway towards the belief that the charge to the beam is part of the hallucination. So in that context, the failed chess strategy is symbolically applicable. 

[HellishFiend]

Auralius Carolus wrote...


So he isn't just indoctrinated, he's being used to affect those around him. And that likely is what is going on with Shepard; Vega isn't indoctrinated, he's hearing the amplified signal coming from Shepard... a signal most adult humans can't register.

Perhaps, but if thats the case, it only occurs while on the Normandy. Otherwise the signal would ostensibly remain constant regardless of whether Coats is around him in London, and it would be present for most if not all of the game.

That is, unless, you consider that Coats' indoctrination is probably much further along. His signal might be stronger. 

[Dwailing]

Auralius Carolus wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

On the Coates theory:

I don't remember him being douchey. He was a bit pessimistic but I just assumed that was because of how strong of a force the Reapers are.

I agree, and I felt the same way on my first non-spoiler playthrough. Like many, I thought he was "off" in a "who is this guy and who does he think he is?" kind of way, but didnt take it beyond that. However if you consider what he says in his theory about how absolutely nobody calls him out on his overtly negative attitude, which is very atypical, it starts to look like a theme. 

That is moderately compelling on its own, but when you add the infrasound discovery to it, it's looking pretty darn convincing. 

Infrasound? Can you give a short explanation on that?

I thought you caught that post, sorry. Here it is:

http://social.biowar...32/771#12581175

The short explanation is that we are presented with a hallmark of indoctrination when Coates is around Shepard. Infrasonic noise. And a big part of that clue is that it's not even detectable unless you analyze the sound signal with professional equipment or software. It was put there deliberately, following Coates around like a theme song. 

So he isn't just indoctrinated, he's being used to affect those around him. And that likely is what is going on with Shepard; Vega isn't indoctrinated, he's hearing the amplified signal coming from Shepard... a signal most adult humans can't register.

Well, Shepard DOES have cybernetic implants. Theoretically, I guess the Reapers could amplify... the signal... off of... mother of God.

[HellishFiend]

Dwailing wrote...

Well, Shepard DOES have cybernetic implants. Theoretically, I guess the Reapers could amplify... the signal... off of... mother of God.

It's feasible that the Collectors blowing Shepard out of the sky and trying to recover his corpse was part of some crazy scheme to have a valid excuse to implant him with cybernetics without drawing suspicion. Except it seems Cerberus did that for them (or was that the plan all along?). Those cybernetics could then be exploited by the Reapers at a time of their choosing. But that would mean drawing a bunch of prerequisite conclusions that are based mostly on circumstantial evidence. 

In other words, its pretty far out there, but possible. 

Modifié par HellishFiend, 15 juin 2012 - 04:54 .

[JasonSic]

Arian Dynas wrote...

I hate this ****ing pos desktop, I hate it hate it hate it hate it.

What did I miss messing around with this piece of ****?

I would say the same about a laptop.

[Turbo_J]

Dwailing wrote...

Auralius Carolus wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

On the Coates theory:

I don't remember him being douchey. He was a bit pessimistic but I just assumed that was because of how strong of a force the Reapers are.

I agree, and I felt the same way on my first non-spoiler playthrough. Like many, I thought he was "off" in a "who is this guy and who does he think he is?" kind of way, but didnt take it beyond that. However if you consider what he says in his theory about how absolutely nobody calls him out on his overtly negative attitude, which is very atypical, it starts to look like a theme. 

That is moderately compelling on its own, but when you add the infrasound discovery to it, it's looking pretty darn convincing. 

Infrasound? Can you give a short explanation on that?

I thought you caught that post, sorry. Here it is:

http://social.biowar...32/771#12581175

The short explanation is that we are presented with a hallmark of indoctrination when Coates is around Shepard. Infrasonic noise. And a big part of that clue is that it's not even detectable unless you analyze the sound signal with professional equipment or software. It was put there deliberately, following Coates around like a theme song. 

So he isn't just indoctrinated, he's being used to affect those around him. And that likely is what is going on with Shepard; Vega isn't indoctrinated, he's hearing the amplified signal coming from Shepard... a signal most adult humans can't register.

Well, Shepard DOES have cybernetic implants. Theoretically, I guess the Reapers could amplify... the signal... off of... mother of God.

I mentioned this too and it was dismissed. I  also have changed my stance on this. The tech may be Reaper based, but it's not directly repurposed. I think that tech along with other things has actually prevented Shep from falling faster. It was her enhancements/upgrades and that tech that made her survive a poisoning attempt on Omega and become immune to sedation in Arrival, after all.

[Dwailing]

HellishFiend wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

Well, Shepard DOES have cybernetic implants. Theoretically, I guess the Reapers could amplify... the signal... off of... mother of God.

It's feasible that the Collectors blowing Shepard out of the sky and trying to recover his corpse was part of some crazy scheme to have a valid excuse to implant him with cybernetics without drawing suspicion. Except it seems Cerberus did that for them (or was that the plan all along?). Those cybernetics could then be exploited by the Reapers at a time of their choosing. But that would mean drawing a bunch of prerequisite conclusions that are based mostly on circumstantial evidence. 

In other words, its pretty far out there, but possible. 

I was thinking that it could explain the amplifier thing. It wouldn't have to be the Reapers consciously trying, it would just sort of... happen.

[Turbo_J]

HellishFiend wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

Well, Shepard DOES have cybernetic implants. Theoretically, I guess the Reapers could amplify... the signal... off of... mother of God.

It's feasible that the Collectors blowing Shepard out of the sky and trying to recover his corpse was part of some crazy scheme to have a valid excuse to implant him with cybernetics without drawing suspicion. Except it seems Cerberus did that for them (or was that the plan all along?). Those cybernetics could then be exploited by the Reapers at a time of their choosing. But that would mean drawing a bunch of prerequisite conclusions that are based mostly on circumstantial evidence. 

In other words, its pretty far out there, but possible. 

Why do you write this crap off when I talk about it?

Edit: Almost everything we do here is based on circumstantial evidence.

Modifié par Turbo_J, 15 juin 2012 - 04:57 .

[deltacypresss]

i think it is appropriate for James hearing the hum, being the new kid on the block he hasn’t had any direct contact with reapers. unlike everybody else.


As for shep being broadcasting the signal. that i can believe, but not because he has cybernetic implants. I do not believe the illusive man was working with the reapers/collectors in any capacity other than HUMANITY! F*CK YEAH!

[Auralius Carolus]

HellishFiend wrote...

Auralius Carolus wrote...


So he isn't just indoctrinated, he's being used to affect those around him. And that likely is what is going on with Shepard; Vega isn't indoctrinated, he's hearing the amplified signal coming from Shepard... a signal most adult humans can't register.

Perhaps, but if thats the case, it only occurs while on the Normandy. Otherwise the signal would ostensibly remain constant regardless of whether Coats is around him in London, and it would be present for most if not all of the game.

That is, unless, you consider that Coats' indoctrination is probably much further along. His signal might be stronger. 

As far as can be analyzed, Shepard's alleged indoctrination is still immature: he's experiencing symptoms of EMF exposure, but that appears to be it. For Coat's alleged indoctrination to be relavent, he would already have to have been influenced.

There are two key questions here, though:

Would the designers truly bother with infrasonic manipulation within all of the audio files surrounding Shepard? (I would argue 'No' out of impracticality and unknown effects of prolonged exposure on humans).

If so, then at what degree of Reaper implantation would Infra/Ultrasonic noise apex?

Also, are there any distinguishable audio files in which the infrasonic frequencies have been traced to?

[Turbo_J]

Auralius Carolus wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

Auralius Carolus wrote...


So he isn't just indoctrinated, he's being used to affect those around him. And that likely is what is going on with Shepard; Vega isn't indoctrinated, he's hearing the amplified signal coming from Shepard... a signal most adult humans can't register.

Perhaps, but if thats the case, it only occurs while on the Normandy. Otherwise the signal would ostensibly remain constant regardless of whether Coats is around him in London, and it would be present for most if not all of the game.

That is, unless, you consider that Coats' indoctrination is probably much further along. His signal might be stronger. 

As far as can be analyzed, Shepard's alleged indoctrination is still immature: he's experiencing symptoms of EMF exposure, but that appears to be it. For Coat's alleged indoctrination to be relavent, he would already have to have been influenced.

There are two key questions here, though:

Would the designers truly bother with infrasonic manipulation within all of the audio files surrounding Shepard? (I would argue 'No' out of impracticality and unknown effects of prolonged exposure on humans).

If so, then at what degree of Reaper implantation would Infra/Ultrasonic noise apex?

Also, are there any distinguishable audio files in which the infrasonic frequencies have been traced to?

Coates has been surrounded by multiple Reapers for months. He's be a military target and turning him without it being so quick as to melt his brain would be beneficial to their cause.

[HellishFiend]

Turbo_J wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

Well, Shepard DOES have cybernetic implants. Theoretically, I guess the Reapers could amplify... the signal... off of... mother of God.

It's feasible that the Collectors blowing Shepard out of the sky and trying to recover his corpse was part of some crazy scheme to have a valid excuse to implant him with cybernetics without drawing suspicion. Except it seems Cerberus did that for them (or was that the plan all along?). Those cybernetics could then be exploited by the Reapers at a time of their choosing. But that would mean drawing a bunch of prerequisite conclusions that are based mostly on circumstantial evidence. 

In other words, its pretty far out there, but possible. 

Why do you write this crap off when I talk about it?

Edit: Almost everything we do here is based on circumstantial evidence.

I'm just being objective like I usually am. The only exceptions are when I get excited about something like the Infrasound thing. I never specified that I believe that to be the case, just that its feasible and possible. 

Also, I dont think that symbolic evidence is considered circumstantial, nor contradictions or violations of precedent, though that is certainly subjective to an extent. I personally consider circumstantial evidence to be, in plain english "This could mean that, but I'm just guessing", with nothing from the story/lore to support it. 

And sorry again, if I miss peoples posts its typically because I'm distracted, rapidly sifting through off topic posts trying to catch up, or confused by the wording. You arent being singled out, to be sure....

[HellishFiend]

deltacypresss wrote...

i think it is appropriate for James hearing the hum, being the new kid on the block he hasn’t had any direct contact with reapers. unlike everybody else.


As for shep being broadcasting the signal. that i can believe, but not because he has cybernetic implants. I do not believe the illusive man was working with the reapers/collectors in any capacity other than HUMANITY! F*CK YEAH!

I'm picturing an amazing video parody of that song now, based on TIM.... and it's good. 

[HellishFiend]

Auralius Carolus wrote...

As far as can be analyzed, Shepard's alleged indoctrination is still immature: he's experiencing symptoms of EMF exposure, but that appears to be it. For Coat's alleged indoctrination to be relavent, he would already have to have been influenced.

There are two key questions here, though:

Would the designers truly bother with infrasonic manipulation within all of the audio files surrounding Shepard? (I would argue 'No' out of impracticality and unknown effects of prolonged exposure on humans).

If so, then at what degree of Reaper implantation would Infra/Ultrasonic noise apex?

Also, are there any distinguishable audio files in which the infrasonic frequencies have been traced to?

Impracticality and unknown effects? Neither of those things are true, though. Its not difficult at all to add in a hum at a certain frequency. Hardly takes any work at all. And most consumer grade audio equipment cannot even reproduce infrasound, let along create enough pressure with it to cause adverse effects. 

And yes, the infrasound has been discovered in the dream sound effects files too. It's starting to look very compelling. It cant be written off. 

[Auralius Carolus]

A little note for the thread about Reaper signals and implantation, (I've been over this before, but I'll do it again because I'm awesome like that )

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

While Reapers are suspected of being able to hijack certain wave frequencies to influence minds, they would need a stable source to do so consistantly. Based on what is suggested in the comics, novels, and field notes from ME2 and ME3, the Reapers use nanites, (tiny machines), to implant the victims covertly. Whether or not these are the same nanites that are used to process biological beings into base fluids is unknown, but what is known is that they are capable of communicating remotely with the Reapers.

In Shepard's case, his implantation, (per the core of the canon), did not likely occur with Project Lazarus, but with Object Rho. Rho's pulses had directly resulted in the indoctrination of every other being that came in contact with it, further reinforcing this notion.

With the blast wave that struck Shepard, nanites likely imbedded themselves across Shepard's body and began to slowly construct implants in his system, (implants seen in Saren and TIM). Aside from acting as a beacon/engine to subject Shepard's body to EMF, ISF, and USF signals, the implants would likely be able to project said signals outward to affect other beings. Whether the nanites could dislodge and effect other beings is unknown.

Regardless, if Shepard is afflicted by the aforementioned, his internal structure has been altered over the space of ~9-11 months by the time of the push on Earth. He would effectly have two layers of cybernetic implants by this time, as well as potential brain damage; likely in the Pariental Lobe and closely neighboring regions.

[Dwailing]

Well, I'm off. Also, are we back to nanites AGAIN? You might want to save that for when paxxton is around. He'd go crazy. Crazy with happiness, that is.

[Arian Dynas]

HellishFiend wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...
**** it. You know what I realized? I disagree with the method you used to reach this point of veiw, but you're right. Synthesis is the cowoard's way out. It's giving up, accepting that you cannot deny or defy the Reapers, so you instead work for them, living off their benevolence and magnanimity.

But, thats basically what I said, just hitting it at a different angle.... You do see that, dont you? It's the same exact concept. 

Hence why I agree with the end, but not the logic you used to reach it.

Synthesis still does involve action, it's not just inaction, you are working for the enemy, you are a traitor of the worst kind, a coward. Control you're misguided and foolish, ground down until you give up yourself, either way you are forced into a mental surrender, it just changes whether or not you chose to fight your way there and be ground down, or gave in to intimidation.

That's my eventual point though. You're just taking it further than I did. That inaction and indifference I was talking about causes you to be easily coerced into believing the Reaper's viewpoints and thusly wind up agreeing with their philosophies entirely, ostensibly proceeding to end up working for them the way Saren did. You're skipping that part and going straight to what happens as a result. 

I'll think about this let me get back to you.

What I'm thinking about Control vs. Synthesis vs. Destroy is this.  In Destroy and Control, Shepard is exerting his will over the Reapers, either to destroy them, or force them to leave.  In Synthesis, though, his choice has nothing to do with the Reapers (Well, technically it does, but you'll get what I mean in a minute.).  What happens in Synthesis, is Shepard combines organic and synthetic life, and the Reapers just leave.  He doesn't do ANYTHING to the Reapers in Synthesis, they just leave.  To quote the line, apathy is death.  He doesn't even bother with them anymore.  He has possibly decided that the Reapers don't matter.  He definitely doesn't try to influence their fate in any way.  He just let's them go.

Yep, thats essentially another way of looking at the same concept I was describing. Many different approaches, same concept in the end. Like you said, apathy is death. Arian for some reason just thinks you need to follow a very specific logical process to arrive at that conclusion. <_<

Wrong. I am disagreeing that Synthesis is apathy. Saren chose Synthesis BECAUSE he cared, because he did not want to die, ans you end up choosing Synthesis for similar reasons, you want to save everyone, it is the INTENTION behind the action that is important, not the action itself.

[Arian Dynas]

Salient Archer wrote...

Makrys wrote...

 http://social.biowar...2383/2#12583078 

Thanks Makrys I was actually just speaking to some guys on MP today about that very topic and they all treated me like I was crazy.

I tried pointing out that BW have never once said it wouldn't contain gameplay, just that they've never said it would; which there is a big distinction between the two. I also explained that if the EC comes out in July it's already taken twice as long as some of the DLC's for ME2 (including LotSB) and it seems that 4 times the amount of people have been working on the EC, but I feel they're so caught up in hearsay opposed to looking at the facts they've totally missed the point. Having new gameplay is completely feasible, sure it might not actually happen but it's just as likely that it will. I actually think BW wants the majority of their fans to think the EC will just be cinematic.

Lower expectations and hit them with really high ones? Yeah it is a very classical business tactic.

[Big Bad]

Arian Dynas wrote...

Big Bad wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

I hate this ****ing pos desktop, I hate it hate it hate it hate it.

What did I miss messing around with this piece of ****?

Sorry, man. 

*Bro hug*

The concern is appreciated, but I would enjoy a more pragmatic salute. Fill me in on what I missed.

I would say that the infrasound thing was the most intriguing topic today.  Earlier in the day we discussed the possibility that all of ME3's DLC could take place after the current ending, which would mean that we are very far from seeing the actual end of the story.  While that discussion kept me quite entertained during an especially boring day at work, it was not exactly earth-shattering in its significance.  Basically you didn't miss anything too crucial.

[Arian Dynas]

JasonSic wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

I hate this ****ing pos desktop, I hate it hate it hate it hate it.

What did I miss messing around with this piece of ****?

I would say the same about a laptop.

Put it this way.

My laptop is a Cadillac.

This old desktop is a Pinto.

[Auralius Carolus]

[quote]HellishFiend wrote...

[/quote]

Impracticality and unknown effects? Neither of those things are true, though. Its not difficult at all to add in a hum at a certain frequency. Hardly takes any work at all. And most consumer grade audio equipment cannot even reproduce infrasound, let along create enough pressure with it to cause adverse effects. 

And yes, the infrasound has been discovered in the dream sound effects files too. It's starting to look very compelling. It cant be written off. 

[/quote]

The difficulty would not be production, but maintaining consistancy; especially considering the considerable amount of other tasks bound to a design team. And while low-grade sub-20hz pitches are generally no big deal, when dealing in an age of lawyers that live off of ambulance chasing, intentionally altering several hours of audio files is just begging for trouble. In certain provinces that I am aware of, there are anti-Subliminal Message laws that are open enough to include it.

Admittedly, I'm no specialist on ISF exposure, but I do know some of the symptoms are akin to EMF exposure which can be maddening. If you have extensive professional experience in the matter, then please forgive my caution and assertion regarding the matter. I will yield that ground; EMF is more of my specialty.