55528 réponses à ce sujet

[gunslinger_ruiz]

llbountyhunter wrote...

Hey does anyone have alink/pic to the final hours app saying that the Shepard indoctrinated mechanic gameplay was scrapped?

I've seen it quoted in a screenshot but I can't remember where ><
and I don't wanna buy the final hours app.

[HellishFiend]

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

llbountyhunter wrote...

Hey does anyone have alink/pic to the final hours app saying that the Shepard indoctrinated mechanic gameplay was scrapped?

I've seen it quoted in a screenshot but I can't remember where ><
and I don't wanna buy the final hours app.

Here you go:

[paxxton]

HellishFiend wrote...

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

llbountyhunter wrote...

Hey does anyone have alink/pic to the final hours app saying that the Shepard indoctrinated mechanic gameplay was scrapped?

I've seen it quoted in a screenshot but I can't remember where ><
and I don't wanna buy the final hours app.

Here you go:

I don't buy that explanation. It's nothing that can't be done with relatively small effort.

[MaximizedAction]

paxxton wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

llbountyhunter wrote...

Hey does anyone have alink/pic to the final hours app saying that the Shepard indoctrinated mechanic gameplay was scrapped?

I've seen it quoted in a screenshot but I can't remember where ><
and I don't wanna buy the final hours app.

Here you go:

I don't buy that explanation. It's nothing that can't be done with relatively small effort.

I think the most interesting word in all of this text is "full".

[HellishFiend]

paxxton wrote...

I don't buy that explanation. It's nothing that can't be done with relatively small effort.

Of course it can be done. But its not immersive. There is too much of a disconnect between the player and Shepard. It fails to convey the indoctrination process from a first-person perspective. I think I said it pretty well in my very first post in the original IT thread, which I just found yesterday.

HellishFiend wrote...
Well if IT turns out to have been Bioware's plan all along (which I believe it is), then it would make sense that they want you to see what happens if you, as the player, bought into the star child's BS. After witnessing the consequences, you can then go back after reevaluating the situation to see what happens if you resist indoctrination. 

If you think about it, this is really the only way to soft-force the consequences of having their Shepard be indoctrinated onto the player, while also giving them the opportunity to overcome it. The only other ways to do it would involve gameplay mechanics (which Bioware said in an interview they tried to do but couldnt pull off) or reputation/decision related choices, which is more of a hard force on the player that doesnt have nearly the same immersion. 

[gunslinger_ruiz]

paxxton wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

llbountyhunter wrote...

Hey does anyone have alink/pic to the final hours app saying that the Shepard indoctrinated mechanic gameplay was scrapped?

I've seen it quoted in a screenshot but I can't remember where ><
and I don't wanna buy the final hours app.

Here you go:

I don't buy that explanation. It's nothing that can't be done with relatively small effort.

I don't pretend to know what goes into making a ME game on that engine but it sounds like there could be some hiccups with animation (as we've seen in game with clipping, character models suddenly moving away) so it's not too big a stretch think playing out dialogue choices while Shepard's body is moving of the Reapers will would cause some techincal issues.

Either way, if IT is true I'm thinking they've perfected the mechanic and we might just lose Shepard's body for a ltitle bit in the future while mainting control of his voice/mind.

[paxxton]

MaximizedAction wrote...

paxxton wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

llbountyhunter wrote...

Hey does anyone have alink/pic to the final hours app saying that the Shepard indoctrinated mechanic gameplay was scrapped?

I've seen it quoted in a screenshot but I can't remember where ><
and I don't wanna buy the final hours app.

Here you go:

I don't buy that explanation. It's nothing that can't be done with relatively small effort.

I think the most interesting word in all of this text is "full".

Are you being sarcastic?

[MaximizedAction]

paxxton wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...

paxxton wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

llbountyhunter wrote...

Hey does anyone have alink/pic to the final hours app saying that the Shepard indoctrinated mechanic gameplay was scrapped?

I've seen it quoted in a screenshot but I can't remember where ><
and I don't wanna buy the final hours app.

Here you go:

I don't buy that explanation. It's nothing that can't be done with relatively small effort.

I think the most interesting word in all of this text is "full".

Are you being sarcastic?

To clarify, it's all super interesting, but the word 'full' I think is the one to cite to those Anti-IT conservatives.

Modifié par MaximizedAction, 15 juin 2012 - 07:27 .

[HellishFiend]

Not to mention that rewriting the ending during the "final hours" of the development process is a ludicrous idea. During the final hours, you do or die by the decisions you've made during the development process.

[paxxton]

HellishFiend wrote...

paxxton wrote...

I don't buy that explanation. It's nothing that can't be done with relatively small effort.

Of course it can be done. But its not immersive. There is too much of a disconnect between the player and Shepard. It fails to convey the indoctrination process from a first-person perspective. I think I said it pretty well in my very first post in the original IT thread, which I just found yesterday.

HellishFiend wrote...
Well if IT turns out to have been Bioware's plan all along (which I believe it is), then it would make sense that they want you to see what happens if you, as the player, bought into the star child's BS. After witnessing the consequences, you can then go back after reevaluating the situation to see what happens if you resist indoctrination. 

If you think about it, this is really the only way to soft-force the consequences of having their Shepard be indoctrinated onto the player, while also giving them the opportunity to overcome it. The only other ways to do it would involve gameplay mechanics (which Bioware said in an interview they tried to do but couldnt pull off) or reputation/decision related choices, which is more of a hard force on the player that doesnt have nearly the same immersion. 

I think the ending as it stands now is exactly what they pretend to not have done. Full Reaper control with dialog choices (at least in the TIM scene).

Modifié par paxxton, 15 juin 2012 - 07:30 .

[HellishFiend]

paxxton wrote...

I think the ending as it stands now is exactly what they preted to not have done. Full Reaper control with dialog choices (at least in the TIM scene).

Agreed. They may have tried to make that into a gameplay mechanic, but couldnt. Doesnt mean that IT as we know it is wrong. 

[paxxton]

MaximizedAction wrote...

paxxton wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...

paxxton wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

llbountyhunter wrote...

Hey does anyone have alink/pic to the final hours app saying that the Shepard indoctrinated mechanic gameplay was scrapped?

I've seen it quoted in a screenshot but I can't remember where ><
and I don't wanna buy the final hours app.

Here you go:

I don't buy that explanation. It's nothing that can't be done with relatively small effort.

I think the most interesting word in all of this text is "full".

Are you being sarcastic?

To clarify, it's all super interesting, but the word 'full' I think is the one to cite to those Anti-IT conservatives.

I though you meant that full control precludes any ability to make dialogue choices. Why would the word "full" be good to cite? More clarification, please.

Modifié par paxxton, 15 juin 2012 - 07:40 .

[paxxton]

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

paxxton wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

llbountyhunter wrote...

Hey does anyone have alink/pic to the final hours app saying that the Shepard indoctrinated mechanic gameplay was scrapped?

I've seen it quoted in a screenshot but I can't remember where ><
and I don't wanna buy the final hours app.

Here you go:

I don't buy that explanation. It's nothing that can't be done with relatively small effort.

I don't pretend to know what goes into making a ME game on that engine but it sounds like there could be some hiccups with animation (as we've seen in game with clipping, character models suddenly moving away) so it's not too big a stretch think playing out dialogue choices while Shepard's body is moving of the Reapers will would cause some techincal issues.

Either way, if IT is true I'm thinking they've perfected the mechanic and we might just lose Shepard's body for a ltitle bit in the future while mainting control of his voice/mind.

They could make it as a cutscene with dialogue choices the same way it's done in many places in the game. And they did it during TIM's scene.

Modifié par paxxton, 15 juin 2012 - 07:36 .

[HellishFiend]

 Figured you guys might like this reply I wrote in that topic, for any that arent following it:

HellishFiend wrote...

jijeebo wrote...


My brain hurts.

Ditto. You guys seem to think that BW is more likely to write "Thematically Revolting" endings that defy all precedent events and symbolism, rather than craft a brilliant scheme to convey the experience of indoctrination to the players from a first person perspective, based on the themes established across the entire trilogy. 

I personally believe IT just by concept alone. The evidence we have is just icing on the cake, and a fun activity to engage in while waiting for the EC. In short, I have faith in Bioware and am enjoying myself here on BSN.

I'm HellishFiend, and these are my favorite speculations on the Citadel. 

 

[LazyTechGuy]

I would've said the most interesting word in all of that text is "fall". "Fall under full Reaper control"? Like how you "fell" in the Synthesis ending? ... I'm only being semi-serious with that.

Anyway, can't deny all this evidence, especially the infrasound stuff from yesterday. That was interesting to read through. I'm still scared to death of the idea that these clues are from an abandoned IT concept and just never taken out.

[MaximizedAction]

paxxton wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...

paxxton wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...

paxxton wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

llbountyhunter wrote...

Hey does anyone have alink/pic to the final hours app saying that the Shepard indoctrinated mechanic gameplay was scrapped?

I've seen it quoted in a screenshot but I can't remember where ><
and I don't wanna buy the final hours app.

Here you go:

I don't buy that explanation. It's nothing that can't be done with relatively small effort.

I think the most interesting word in all of this text is "full".

Are you being sarcastic?

To clarify, it's all super interesting, but the word 'full' I think is the one to cite to those Anti-IT conservatives.

I though you meant that full control completely prohibits any ability to make dialogue choices. Why the word "full" would be good to cite? More clarification, please.

Sorry, of course this shall not go unclarified:
A vehiment anti-IT fan's counter argument is, that BW would never think/could never pull the things that IT suggests. They also know of this quote from the Final Hours app, but the word "full Reaper control" suggests to me, that there are apparently stages of Reaper control, otherwise why say the word "full" at all? Is that a way of saying?

If not, then the author used that word for a reason.
If however, it is just a ways of saying it, then I apologise and...forget what I wrote.

That reminds me of Jesse Houston's random "ending on the disc" phrase.
...Generally, so many random things have been said and written by the developers, without even being asked for.

[deltacypresss]

well i found that whole breach, i remember i found it earlier as well. It is ... interesting. firing incinerate right next to the window makes it go off in a weird direction. but take a few steps back it explodes as if hitting something unless you hit the right angle.

edit: I was wrong about something. deleated it.

Modifié par deltacypresss, 15 juin 2012 - 07:44 .

[HellishFiend]

LazyTechGuy wrote...

I would've said the most interesting word in all of that text is "fall". "Fall under full Reaper control"? Like how you "fell" in the Synthesis ending? ... I'm only being semi-serious with that.

Anyway, can't deny all this evidence, especially the infrasound stuff from yesterday. That was interesting to read through. I'm still scared to death of the idea that these clues are from an abandoned IT concept and just never taken out.

Bioware is better than that. Dont let the fallout over DA2 fool you. And remember the massive symbolic contradictions in the Control/Synthesis endings and how even an amateur writer working on his first novel wouldnt make that elementary of a mistake when crafting an ending. They are just endings that look good on the surface concept-wise, but fall apart in the face of established symbolism, precedent events, and the very concept of indoctrination in the first place. 

:happy:

[gunslinger_ruiz]

HellishFiend wrote...

LazyTechGuy wrote...

I would've said the most interesting word in all of that text is "fall". "Fall under full Reaper control"? Like how you "fell" in the Synthesis ending? ... I'm only being semi-serious with that.

Anyway, can't deny all this evidence, especially the infrasound stuff from yesterday. That was interesting to read through. I'm still scared to death of the idea that these clues are from an abandoned IT concept and just never taken out.

Bioware is better than that. Dont let the fallout over DA2 fool you. And remember the massive symbolic contradictions in the Control/Synthesis endings and how even an amateur writer working on his first novel wouldnt make that elementary of a mistake when crafting an ending. They are just endings that look good on the surface concept-wise, but fall apart in the face of established symbolism, precedent events, and the very concept of indoctrination in the first place. 

:happy:

Now I liked DA2, but let's not start something with that. Anyway, for me, Bioware has always delivered great writing story and dialogue. And while I "liked" the current endings of ME3 I know Bioware could have done a thousand times better if face-value/literal was all there was to them.

[Big Bad]

HellishFiend wrote...

LazyTechGuy wrote...

I would've said the most interesting word in all of that text is "fall". "Fall under full Reaper control"? Like how you "fell" in the Synthesis ending? ... I'm only being semi-serious with that.

Anyway, can't deny all this evidence, especially the infrasound stuff from yesterday. That was interesting to read through. I'm still scared to death of the idea that these clues are from an abandoned IT concept and just never taken out.

Bioware is better than that. Dont let the fallout over DA2 fool you. And remember the massive symbolic contradictions in the Control/Synthesis endings and how even an amateur writer working on his first novel wouldnt make that elementary of a mistake when crafting an ending. They are just endings that look good on the surface concept-wise, but fall apart in the face of established symbolism, precedent events, and the very concept of indoctrination in the first place. 

:happy:

Besides the thematic inconsistency regarding control and synthesis, the entire reason the choices even has to happen violates the major themes of free will, strength through diversity and accepting the personhood of synthetics, which have been so integral to the series.

I know I am pretty much a broken record about this, but the unprecedented thematic discrepancies found in the end are like gigantic flashing neon signs that say "You are being deceived!" At least to me.

Modifié par Big Bad, 15 juin 2012 - 08:09 .

[HellishFiend]

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

Now I liked DA2, but let's not start something with that. Anyway, for me, Bioware has always delivered great writing story and dialogue. And while I "liked" the current endings of ME3 I know Bioware could have done a thousand times better if face-value/literal was all there was to them.

To be fair, I did say the "fallout over DA2", not "DA2"... <_< Same thing can be said about ME3's ending. The fallout over it happens to be absurd, but we think it's brilliant. 

[HellishFiend]

Big Bad wrote...
Besides the thematic inconsistency of control and synthesis, the entire reason the choices even has to happen violates the major themes of free will, strength through diversity and accepting the personhood of synthetics, which have been so integral to the series.

I know I am pretty much a broken record about this, but the unprecedented thematic discrepancies found in the end are like gigantic flashing neon signs that say "You are being deceived!" At least to me.

I agree completely. The trilogy seems to try extra hard (more than most VG storylines, anyway) to ensure you understand the very concepts that the control/synthesis ending choices are contradicting.

[paxxton]

MaximizedAction wrote...

paxxton wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...

paxxton wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...

paxxton wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

llbountyhunter wrote...

Hey does anyone have alink/pic to the final hours app saying that the Shepard indoctrinated mechanic gameplay was scrapped?

I've seen it quoted in a screenshot but I can't remember where ><
and I don't wanna buy the final hours app.

Here you go:

I don't buy that explanation. It's nothing that can't be done with relatively small effort.

I think the most interesting word in all of this text is "full".

Are you being sarcastic?

To clarify, it's all super interesting, but the word 'full' I think is the one to cite to those Anti-IT conservatives.

I though you meant that full control completely prohibits any ability to make dialogue choices. Why the word "full" would be good to cite? More clarification, please.

Sorry, of course this shall not go unclarified:
A vehiment anti-IT fan's counter argument is, that BW would never think/could never pull the things that IT suggests. They also know of this quote from the Final Hours app, but the word "full Reaper control" suggests to me, that there are apparently stages of Reaper control, otherwise why say the word "full" at all? Is that a way of saying?

If not, then the author used that word for a reason.
If however, it is just a ways of saying it, then I apologise and...forget what I wrote.

That reminds me of Jesse Houston's random "ending on the disc" phrase.
...Generally, so many random things have been said and written by the developers, without even being asked for.

Thanks for helping me understand what you meant.
We all know here that Reaper indoctrination proceeds through different stages but for an "unskilled ME fan"  it may seem like a way of emphasizing that Shepard is no longer controlling himself (you know, a 0-1 situation).

EDIT: Damn. I built a quote pyramid again.  Sorry folks.

Modifié par paxxton, 15 juin 2012 - 08:10 .

[olshi]

HellishFiend wrote...

paxxton wrote...

I don't buy that explanation. It's nothing that can't be done with relatively small effort.

Of course it can be done. But its not immersive. There is too much of a disconnect between the player and Shepard. It fails to convey the indoctrination process from a first-person perspective. I think I said it pretty well in my very first post in the original IT thread, which I just found yesterday.

HellishFiend wrote...
Well if IT turns out to have been Bioware's plan all along (which I believe it is), then it would make sense that they want you to see what happens if you, as the player, bought into the star child's BS. After witnessing the consequences, you can then go back after reevaluating the situation to see what happens if you resist indoctrination. 

If you think about it, this is really the only way to soft-force the consequences of having their Shepard be indoctrinated onto the player, while also giving them the opportunity to overcome it. The only other ways to do it would involve gameplay mechanics (which Bioware said in an interview they tried to do but couldnt pull off) or reputation/decision related choices, which is more of a hard force on the player that doesnt have nearly the same immersion. 

It's like with Saren and TIM. Both were absolutely convinced, that the ending sucked, until Shepard proved them wrong.

[Big Bad]

HellishFiend wrote...

Big Bad wrote...
Besides the thematic inconsistency of control and synthesis, the entire reason the choices even has to happen violates the major themes of free will, strength through diversity and accepting the personhood of synthetics, which have been so integral to the series.

I know I am pretty much a broken record about this, but the unprecedented thematic discrepancies found in the end are like gigantic flashing neon signs that say "You are being deceived!" At least to me.

I agree completely. The trilogy seems to try extra hard (more than most VG storylines, anyway) to ensure you understand the very concepts that the control/synthesis ending choices are contradicting.

Indeed.