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Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark II!


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#19876
gunslinger_ruiz

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HellishFiend wrote...

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

Now I liked DA2, but let's not start something with that. Anyway, for me, Bioware has always delivered great writing story and dialogue. And while I "liked" the current endings of ME3 I know Bioware could have done a thousand times better if face-value/literal was all there was to them.


To be fair, I did say the "fallout over DA2", not "DA2"... <_< Same thing can be said about ME3's ending. The fallout over it happens to be absurd, but we think it's brilliant. :)


Absolutely, it turns my "like" of the endings into a "HOLY **** THAT WAS AWESOME" of the endings. I'm gonna be a little upset if IT doesn't turn out to be at least partially true. I'll get over it I'm sure, still enjoy Mass Effect, but yeah. Not to mention the wave of trolls on the forums.....chaos o_o.

#19877
Dwailing

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gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

Now I liked DA2, but let's not start something with that. Anyway, for me, Bioware has always delivered great writing story and dialogue. And while I "liked" the current endings of ME3 I know Bioware could have done a thousand times better if face-value/literal was all there was to them.


To be fair, I did say the "fallout over DA2", not "DA2"... <_< Same thing can be said about ME3's ending. The fallout over it happens to be absurd, but we think it's brilliant. :)


Absolutely, it turns my "like" of the endings into a "HOLY **** THAT WAS AWESOME" of the endings. I'm gonna be a little upset if IT doesn't turn out to be at least partially true. I'll get over it I'm sure, still enjoy Mass Effect, but yeah. Not to mention the wave of trolls on the forums.....chaos o_o.


Like I said earlier, even if the EC confirms IT, and I'm 98% certain that it will, I will probably disappear from the forums for a while while the ****storm settles down.  I'll probably come here for a while to talk about how we were right and to celebrate our correctness, but I get the feeling that things are going to get nasty either way.

Modifié par Dwailing, 15 juin 2012 - 08:19 .


#19878
Raistlin Majare 1992

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Dwailing wrote...

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

Now I liked DA2, but let's not start something with that. Anyway, for me, Bioware has always delivered great writing story and dialogue. And while I "liked" the current endings of ME3 I know Bioware could have done a thousand times better if face-value/literal was all there was to them.


To be fair, I did say the "fallout over DA2", not "DA2"... <_< Same thing can be said about ME3's ending. The fallout over it happens to be absurd, but we think it's brilliant. :)


Absolutely, it turns my "like" of the endings into a "HOLY **** THAT WAS AWESOME" of the endings. I'm gonna be a little upset if IT doesn't turn out to be at least partially true. I'll get over it I'm sure, still enjoy Mass Effect, but yeah. Not to mention the wave of trolls on the forums.....chaos o_o.


Like I said earlier, even if the EC confirms IT, and I'm 98% certain that it will, I will probably disappear from the forums for a while while the ****storm settles down.  I'll probably come here for a while to talk about how we were right and to celebrate our correctness, but I get the feeling that things are going to get nasty either way.


People dont like beeing fooled, even if it is in such an awesome way which fills out so many plotholes <_<

That is fi it is true, off course. But by now, with all the compiled evidence I am near 100% certain it is correct :P

#19879
Big Bad

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@Makrys

Just wanted to say that you are doing an awesome job over in that thread about the EC development time. I think more people need to read the points that you're making. Way to go! :)

Modifié par Big Bad, 15 juin 2012 - 08:28 .


#19880
Big Bad

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double post

Modifié par Big Bad, 15 juin 2012 - 08:28 .


#19881
paxxton

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Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

Now I liked DA2, but let's not start something with that. Anyway, for me, Bioware has always delivered great writing story and dialogue. And while I "liked" the current endings of ME3 I know Bioware could have done a thousand times better if face-value/literal was all there was to them.


To be fair, I did say the "fallout over DA2", not "DA2"... <_< Same thing can be said about ME3's ending. The fallout over it happens to be absurd, but we think it's brilliant. :)


Absolutely, it turns my "like" of the endings into a "HOLY **** THAT WAS AWESOME" of the endings. I'm gonna be a little upset if IT doesn't turn out to be at least partially true. I'll get over it I'm sure, still enjoy Mass Effect, but yeah. Not to mention the wave of trolls on the forums.....chaos o_o.


Like I said earlier, even if the EC confirms IT, and I'm 98% certain that it will, I will probably disappear from the forums for a while while the ****storm settles down.  I'll probably come here for a while to talk about how we were right and to celebrate our correctness, but I get the feeling that things are going to get nasty either way.


People dont like beeing fooled, even if it is in such an awesome way which fills out so many plotholes <_<

That is fi it is true, off course. But by now, with all the compiled evidence I am near 100% certain it is correct :P

It would seem some people can never be satisfied because they don't really want it. And then they keep on asking why RL is so hard and uninteresting. Posted Image

Modifié par paxxton, 15 juin 2012 - 08:32 .


#19882
spotlessvoid

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If the EC is well done and includes some satisfying game play, I think most ME fans would forgive Bioware. Especially if a solid sp dlc is released at roughly the same time. Whether or not they are willing to admit that in the forums is another matter.

#19883
Dwailing

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Huh, the codex entry on indoctrination says that eventually the Reapers can use a victim's body to amplify the indoctrination signal, though in the entry that seems to be referring to how they manipulate the senses by making said victims see and hear things.

#19884
spotlessvoid

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I think Bioware needs to start thinking about getting that EC out soon. Nobody wants a rushed product, but momentum is very important.

#19885
gunslinger_ruiz

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Dwailing wrote...

Huh, the codex entry on indoctrination says that eventually the Reapers can use a victim's body to amplify the indoctrination signal, though in the entry that seems to be referring to how they manipulate the senses by making said victims see and hear things.


We can see that with Saren in ME1 actually, it's said that his presence seems to manipulate you (I think Benezia mentions this) but then it's revealed that the influecne is actually from Sovereign through Saren. Hm, if Reaper implants can make someone a hub for the signal then that's what TIM's turned himself into.

#19886
paxxton

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Dwailing wrote...

Huh, the codex entry on indoctrination says that eventually the Reapers can use a victim's body to amplify the indoctrination signal, though in the entry that seems to be referring to how they manipulate the senses by making said victims see and hear things.

I think it might also mean that they use the victim's body as a transceiver to indoctrinate others in their close proximity. Similar concept is used in wireless networking.

That would explain why there are infrasonic sounds when Coats is in the vicinity. He's indoctrinated.

Modifié par paxxton, 15 juin 2012 - 08:48 .


#19887
spotlessvoid

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Dwailing wrote...

Huh, the codex entry on indoctrination says that eventually the Reapers can use a victim's body to amplify the indoctrination signal, though in the entry that seems to be referring to how they manipulate the senses by making said victims see and hear things.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Hum#section_1

#19888
olshi

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paxxton wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

Huh, the codex entry on indoctrination says that eventually the Reapers can use a victim's body to amplify the indoctrination signal, though in the entry that seems to be referring to how they manipulate the senses by making said victims see and hear things.

I think it might also mean that they use the victim's body as a transceiver to indoctrinate others in their close proximity. Similar concept is used in wireless networking.

That would explain why there are infrasonic sounds when Coats is in the vicinity. He's indoctrinated.


It would also explain why TIM can control Shepard.

#19889
Seival

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Hello, dear "IT"ers, and welcome to your worst nightmare:
http://social.biowar.../index/12593947

...Err. No offense :)

#19890
Raistlin Majare 1992

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olshi wrote...

paxxton wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

Huh, the codex entry on indoctrination says that eventually the Reapers can use a victim's body to amplify the indoctrination signal, though in the entry that seems to be referring to how they manipulate the senses by making said victims see and hear things.

I think it might also mean that they use the victim's body as a transceiver to indoctrinate others in their close proximity. Similar concept is used in wireless networking.

That would explain why there are infrasonic sounds when Coats is in the vicinity. He's indoctrinated.


It would also explain why TIM can control Shepard.


No it does not. Indoctrination worms its way into your head, subverting the mind and through that the Reaper gain control of the body.

What TIm did to Shepard and Anderson was the opposite, controlling the body directly but leaving Shepards and Andersons minds intact. It is an unprecedented power in the ME universe adnc ompletely different from indoctrination.

#19891
spotlessvoid

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Seival wrote...

Hello, dear "IT"ers, and welcome to your worst nightmare:
http://social.biowar.../index/12593947

...Err. No offense :)

Quitted

#19892
gunslinger_ruiz

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Seival wrote...

Hello, dear "IT"ers, and welcome to your worst nightmare:
http://social.biowar.../index/12593947

...Err. No offense :)


Incorrect quotes from the game. Correct quotes from the game = Joker making a joke about the game being a game. Disproved. Moving on.

#19893
byne

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Seival wrote...

Hello, dear "IT"ers, and welcome to your worst nightmare:
http://social.biowar.../index/12593947

...Err. No offense :)


And here I thought you werent a troll, and even got angry when people spammed your other thread.

Guess that'll teach me.

Edit: Although I'm going to go ahead and say this ahead of time: this doesnt mean any of you guys should spam that thread either.

Modifié par byne, 15 juin 2012 - 09:04 .


#19894
paxxton

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Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

olshi wrote...

paxxton wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

Huh, the codex entry on indoctrination says that eventually the Reapers can use a victim's body to amplify the indoctrination signal, though in the entry that seems to be referring to how they manipulate the senses by making said victims see and hear things.

I think it might also mean that they use the victim's body as a transceiver to indoctrinate others in their close proximity. Similar concept is used in wireless networking.

That would explain why there are infrasonic sounds when Coats is in the vicinity. He's indoctrinated.


It would also explain why TIM can control Shepard.


No it does not. Indoctrination worms its way into your head, subverting the mind and through that the Reaper gain control of the body.

What TIm did to Shepard and Anderson was the opposite, controlling the body directly but leaving Shepards and Andersons minds intact. It is an unprecedented power in the ME universe adnc ompletely different from indoctrination.

Posted ImagePosted ImagePosted Image
Metaconvergence Theory (aka UNIT)
http://social.biowar.../index/12089259

#19895
Raistlin Majare 1992

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Seival wrote...

Hello, dear "IT"ers, and welcome to your worst nightmare:
http://social.biowar.../index/12593947

...Err. No offense :)


Since the consensus mission is optional the consensus has to be able to predict the future to the smallest part since just about the same events supposedly happen to a player in the consensus and one who entered it...yeah right.

Consensus theory, check mate.

#19896
Raistlin Majare 1992

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paxxton wrote...


Posted ImagePosted ImagePosted Image
Metaconvergence Theory (aka UNIT)
http://social.biowar.../index/12089259


I know it Paxxton, I dont agree with it, but I know it.

Lets not start another page long argument on it and just keep it there, okay?

Modifié par Raistlin Majare 1992, 15 juin 2012 - 09:07 .


#19897
Big Bad

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Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

olshi wrote...

paxxton wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

Huh, the codex entry on indoctrination says that eventually the Reapers can use a victim's body to amplify the indoctrination signal, though in the entry that seems to be referring to how they manipulate the senses by making said victims see and hear things.

I think it might also mean that they use the victim's body as a transceiver to indoctrinate others in their close proximity. Similar concept is used in wireless networking.

That would explain why there are infrasonic sounds when Coats is in the vicinity. He's indoctrinated.


It would also explain why TIM can control Shepard.


No it does not. Indoctrination worms its way into your head, subverting the mind and through that the Reaper gain control of the body.

What TIm did to Shepard and Anderson was the opposite, controlling the body directly but leaving Shepards and Andersons minds intact. It is an unprecedented power in the ME universe adnc ompletely different from indoctrination.

This. So much this. TIM's sudden abilities have no basis in the ME universe, given the information we have access to. It makes no literal sense that he could do that, however it makes perfectly brilliant metaphorical sense!

#19898
MaximizedAction

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Andromidius wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

Andromidius wrote...

Oh, and shame nothing substantial was found with those two song files. Slight differences are possibly due to recording quality via different media? And no significant low-frequency sounds. Still, at least it means they aren't everywhere to be found, which helps somewhat.


Definitely. At this point we need examples we can use as a point of reference so we know where we're actually seeing signs of indoctrination signals. 


That being said, if there was a huge spike in ultrasonic sounds towards the end of 'An End Once And For All'...

Too obvious?  :P


Unfortunately, no peaks at the end of that track. But, I kept looking for really low frequencies and I found some. And I wasn't even surprised to find them there.

Sorry in advance for the wall post. :P But one may speculate.

So, to spam you guys with more tin-foil frequency diagrams,

here is 'Leaving Earth' as a music track (average over the complete track):
Posted Image

Notice the prominent peak nearly below 20Hz!

That one and many of the other low frequencies are contributed by the three Reaper growls present on the track. And the most interesting growl, the third one, gives you this:
Posted Image

One can clearly hear that this one stands out! It also sounds very raw. In the game, this is the moment where the shuttles are shot down. So the reason it stands out is clear.

And now the final one.
This one is from that one Reaper growl in the second dream:
Posted Image

No peaks, except for the 40Hz one, which is indeed very prominent and is also the E note in which the Reapers always yoddle in.
But the peaks are not as interesting, its the amplitude of the low frequencies. It's loud. And it's supposed to be special! The red light emphasizes it. And according to Hellish, those two things including the boy running away are the typical signs of a failed indoc. attempt.

I think this growl is a modification of the first 'Leaving Earth' growl. And it also has more bass than the original growl:

here's the first one's spectrum for comparison directly from the track:
Posted Image

Here the lower frequencies are neatly missing, as it should be for good classical instruments. So the dream version is very much so altered.

So all in all, I might've no skyscraper peaks to offer in frequencies below 20 Hz, but there are definitely low frequencies present during the game, especially in the dreams. And that makes sense as, within IT, they are supposed to be Shepards weakest moments, where the Reapers have the best chance to infiltrate his mind.

Modifié par MaximizedAction, 15 juin 2012 - 09:16 .


#19899
paxxton

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Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

paxxton wrote...


Posted ImagePosted ImagePosted Image
Metaconvergence Theory (aka UNIT)
http://social.biowar.../index/12089259


I know it Paxxton, I dont agree with it, but I know it.

Lets not start another page long argument on it and just keep it there, okay?

If you say so... Posted Image

#19900
gunslinger_ruiz

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Big Bad wrote...

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

olshi wrote...

paxxton wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

Huh, the codex entry on indoctrination says that eventually the Reapers can use a victim's body to amplify the indoctrination signal, though in the entry that seems to be referring to how they manipulate the senses by making said victims see and hear things.

I think it might also mean that they use the victim's body as a transceiver to indoctrinate others in their close proximity. Similar concept is used in wireless networking.

That would explain why there are infrasonic sounds when Coats is in the vicinity. He's indoctrinated.


It would also explain why TIM can control Shepard.


No it does not. Indoctrination worms its way into your head, subverting the mind and through that the Reaper gain control of the body.

What TIm did to Shepard and Anderson was the opposite, controlling the body directly but leaving Shepards and Andersons minds intact. It is an unprecedented power in the ME universe adnc ompletely different from indoctrination.

This. So much this. TIM's sudden abilities have no basis in the ME universe, given the information we have access to. It makes no literal sense that he could do that, however it makes perfectly brilliant metaphorical sense!


Hm, y'know it's a little more like the Throian's control from ME1. Fei (fai?) Dan's mind seemed mostly intact but he had little to no control of his body, just enough to shoot himself. Just adds more to the illusionary factor of the ending.