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Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark II!


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#19901
paxxton

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MaximizedAction wrote...

Andromidius wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

Andromidius wrote...

Oh, and shame nothing substantial was found with those two song files. Slight differences are possibly due to recording quality via different media? And no significant low-frequency sounds. Still, at least it means they aren't everywhere to be found, which helps somewhat.


Definitely. At this point we need examples we can use as a point of reference so we know where we're actually seeing signs of indoctrination signals. 


That being said, if there was a huge spike in ultrasonic sounds towards the end of 'An End Once And For All'...

Too obvious?  :P


Unfortunately, no peaks at the end of that track. But, I kept looking for really low frequencies and I found some. And I wasn't even surprised to find them there.

Sorry in advance for the wall post. :P But one may speculate.

So, to spam you guys with more tin-foil frequency diagrams,

here is 'Leaving Earth' as a music track (average over the complete track):
Posted Image

Notice the prominent peak nearly below 20Hz!

That one and many of the other low frequencies are contributed by the three Reaper growls present on the track. And the most interesting growl, the third one, gives you this:
Posted Image

One can clearly hear that this one stands out! It also sounds very raw. In the game, this is the moment where the shuttles are shot down. So the reason it stands out is clear.

And now the final one.
This one is from that one Reaper growl in the second dream:
Posted Image

No peaks, except for the 40Hz one, which is indeed very prominent and is also the E note in which the Reapers always yoddle in.
But the peaks are not as interesting, its the amplitude of the low frequencies. It's loud. And it's supposed to be special! The red light emphasizes it. And according to Hellish, those two things including the boy running away are the typical signs of a failed indoc. attempt.

I think this growl is a modification of the first 'Leaving Earth' growl. And it also has more bass than the original growl:

here's the first one's spectrum for comparison directly from the track:
Posted Image

Here the lower frequencies are neatly missing, as it should be for good classical instruments. So the dream version is very much so altered.

So all in all, I might've no skyscraper peaks to offer in frequencies below 20 Hz, but there are definitely low frequencies present during the game, especially in the dreams. And that makes sense as, within IT, they are supposed to be Shepards weakest moments, where the Reapers have the best chance to infiltrate his mind.

The thing that makes me wonder is why in the low-frequency spectrum there are no jaggies and lines are so smooth. Is it because those sounds there are crafted artificially, not digitized from an actual instrument?

Modifié par paxxton, 15 juin 2012 - 09:26 .


#19902
D.Sharrah

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I wanted to find a clip of it but I can't seem to find a good one...if anyone has played Monkey Island 3, you may remember a talking skull named Murray. There is a moment in the game wher Murray is present and his background dialoge has him say something to the effect of "I am the harbinger of your doom"...I will no longer be able to look at Harbinger in ME the same way...

But there is this from the series...this would be exploding the 4th wall w/dynamite:


Modifié par D.Sharrah, 15 juin 2012 - 09:33 .


#19903
BleedingUranium

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gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

Big Bad wrote...

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

olshi wrote...

paxxton wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

Huh, the codex entry on indoctrination says that eventually the Reapers can use a victim's body to amplify the indoctrination signal, though in the entry that seems to be referring to how they manipulate the senses by making said victims see and hear things.

I think it might also mean that they use the victim's body as a transceiver to indoctrinate others in their close proximity. Similar concept is used in wireless networking.

That would explain why there are infrasonic sounds when Coats is in the vicinity. He's indoctrinated.


It would also explain why TIM can control Shepard.


No it does not. Indoctrination worms its way into your head, subverting the mind and through that the Reaper gain control of the body.

What TIm did to Shepard and Anderson was the opposite, controlling the body directly but leaving Shepards and Andersons minds intact. It is an unprecedented power in the ME universe adnc ompletely different from indoctrination.

This. So much this. TIM's sudden abilities have no basis in the ME universe, given the information we have access to. It makes no literal sense that he could do that, however it makes perfectly brilliant metaphorical sense!


Hm, y'know it's a little more like the Throian's control from ME1. Fei (fai?) Dan's mind seemed mostly intact but he had little to no control of his body, just enough to shoot himself. Just adds more to the illusionary factor of the ending.


With a Predator Posted Image

#19904
MaximizedAction

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paxxton wrote...
The thing that makes me wonder is why in the low-frequency spectrum there are no jaggies and lines are so smooth. Is it because those sounds there are crafted artificially, not digitized from an actual instrument?


That's a good question. I think you're right.

As an example, there's something similar going on in the Catalyst track below 50Hz:
Posted Image

Here you can see that the lower freq. are really flattening out. But notice how it flattenes out: it's from sinus oscillations with (exponentially) decreasing amplitudes. As far as I understood it from wiki, THOSE are Spectral leakages. That it doesn't go down like in Leaving Earth?

It's as you wrote, I guess: it's because it comes from a digital instrument and not from a good recording of a classical instrument.

Modifié par MaximizedAction, 15 juin 2012 - 09:43 .


#19905
Xavendithas

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Seival wrote...

Hello, dear "IT"ers, and welcome to your worst nightmare:
http://social.biowar.../index/12593947

...Err. No offense :)


...:blink:

#19906
MaximizedAction

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D.Sharrah wrote...

I wanted to find a clip of it but I can't seem to find a good one...if anyone has played Monkey Island 3, you may remember a talking skull named Murray. There is a moment in the game wher Murray is present and his background dialoge has him say something to the effect of "I am the harbinger of your doom"...I will no longer be able to look at Harbinger in ME the same way...

But there is this from the series...this would be exploding the 4th wall w/dynamite:


Oh man, if ME3 hasn't burnt itself in my brain with IT permanently, a real 4th wall break like that will. ^_^

#19907
TSA_383

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First off, does anyone want a Corsair TX950W PSU? Because my new gaming/bitcoin mining/editing/master of all things PC is such a tremendous **** for voltage that I've had to go out and buy an enermax Maxrevo 1350W.


Next, I'm going to split MA's post up graph by graph, because there's some interesting stuff along with some mistakes:

MaximizedAction wrote...
That one and many of the other low frequencies are contributed by the three Reaper growls present on the track. And the most interesting growl, the third one, gives you this:
Posted Image

One can clearly hear that this one stands out! It also sounds very raw. In the game, this is the moment where the shuttles are shot down. So the reason it stands out is clear.


This one is legit and interesting - this is an actual infrasonic peak in the game audio, no ifs, ands or buts. Nice work. There's no peak in that signal which would make a harmonic at that volume and frequency, so it's not noise in the analysis.

And now the final one.
This one is from that one Reaper growl in the second dream:
Posted Image

No peaks, except for the 40Hz one, which is indeed very prominent and is also the E note in which the Reapers always yoddle in.
But the peaks are not as interesting, its the amplitude of the low frequencies. It's loud. And it's supposed to be special! The red light emphasizes it. And according to Hellish, those two things including the boy running away are the typical signs of a failed indoc. attempt.

I think this growl is a modification of the first 'Leaving Earth' growl. And it also has more bass than the original growl:

here's the first one's spectrum for comparison directly from the track:
Posted Image

Here the lower frequencies are neatly missing, as it should be for good classical instruments. So the dream version is very much so altered.

So all in all, I might've no skyscraper peaks to offer in frequencies below 20 Hz, but there are definitely low frequencies present during the game, especially in the dreams. And that makes sense as, within IT, they are supposed to be Shepards weakest moments, where the Reapers have the best chance to infiltrate his mind.


These two however, you've got a bit mixed up. The ultra-low infrasonic you're seeing in the second dream is likely spectral leakage, and it's probably a coincidence that this lined up a bit better in your analysis of the original.
In fact, the second one which you say has the lower frequencies "missing" has what appears to be an actual (but quiet) infrasonic peak, whereas the dream sound lacks one entirely.

#19908
paxxton

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MaximizedAction wrote...

paxxton wrote...
The thing that makes me wonder is why in the low-frequency spectrum there are no jaggies and lines are so smooth. Is it because those sounds there are crafted artificially, not digitized from an actual instrument?


That's a good question. I think you're right.

As an example, there's something similar going on in the Catalyst track below 50Hz:
Posted Image

Here you can see that the lower freq. are really flattening out. But notice how it flattenes out: it's from sinus oscillations with (exponentially) decreasing amplitudes. As far as I understood it from wiki, THOSE are Spectral leakages. That it doesn't go down like in Leaving Earth?

It's as you wrote, I guess: it's because is from a digital instrument and not from a good recording of a classical instrument.

More specifically, I meant the sounds (or specific numerical values) were algorithmically generated. Like for example someone said ok I want the line to look that way and the algorithm generated the values.

Modifié par paxxton, 15 juin 2012 - 09:58 .


#19909
D.Sharrah

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MaximizedAction wrote...

D.Sharrah wrote...

I wanted to find a clip of it but I can't seem to find a good one...if anyone has played Monkey Island 3, you may remember a talking skull named Murray. There is a moment in the game wher Murray is present and his background dialoge has him say something to the effect of "I am the harbinger of your doom"...I will no longer be able to look at Harbinger in ME the same way...

But there is this from the series...this would be exploding the 4th wall w/dynamite:


Oh man, if ME3 hasn't burnt itself in my brain with IT permanently, a real 4th wall break like that will. ^_^


Been playing MI and MI 2 this week as a way to pass time...those games are hilarious and they break the 4th wall all the time...that's just my favorite example. Posted Image

#19910
TSA_383

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paxxton wrote...
The thing that makes me wonder is why in the low-frequency spectrum there are no jaggies and lines are so smooth. Is it because those sounds there are crafted artificially, not digitized from an actual instrument?


Reaper noises are created in NI MASSIVE:
http://www.native-in...oducer/massive/

It's a monumentally powerful synth but about as user-friendly as a sandpaper condom:
Posted Image

#19911
paxxton

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TSA_383 wrote...

First off, does anyone want a Corsair TX950W PSU? Because my new gaming/bitcoin mining/editing/master of all things PC is such a tremendous **** for voltage that I've had to go out and buy an enermax Maxrevo 1350W.

1350W?!?!?! Posted ImagePosted ImagePosted Image
I have a 350W PSU. I know not very powerful. Posted Image And my GeForce 560 constantly freezes my PC with **** on the screen if I play YouTube videos in full screen for too long. Posted Image

Modifié par paxxton, 15 juin 2012 - 09:54 .


#19912
byne

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TSA_383 wrote...

paxxton wrote...
The thing that makes me wonder is why in the low-frequency spectrum there are no jaggies and lines are so smooth. Is it because those sounds there are crafted artificially, not digitized from an actual instrument?


Reaper noises are created in NI MASSIVE:
http://www.native-in...oducer/massive/

It's a monumentally powerful synth but about as user-friendly as a sandpaper condom:

*snip*


I like how it is MASSIVE in all caps, just to let you know it isnt ****ing around.

#19913
Dwailing

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TSA_383 wrote...


It's a monumentally powerful synth but about as user-friendly as a sandpaper condom:



TSA, with this line, you have officially won the internet for the day.

#19914
MaximizedAction

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D.Sharrah wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...

D.Sharrah wrote...

I wanted to find a clip of it but I can't seem to find a good one...if anyone has played Monkey Island 3, you may remember a talking skull named Murray. There is a moment in the game wher Murray is present and his background dialoge has him say something to the effect of "I am the harbinger of your doom"...I will no longer be able to look at Harbinger in ME the same way...

But there is this from the series...this would be exploding the 4th wall w/dynamite:


Oh man, if ME3 hasn't burnt itself in my brain with IT permanently, a real 4th wall break like that will. ^_^


Been playing MI and MI 2 this week as a way to pass time...those games are hilarious and they break the 4th wall all the time...that's just my favorite example. Posted Image


No, I know! Take that salarian salesman on the Citadel talking about games. Or Cortez' and Vega's discussion about the Mako: "That thing handles like a drunk rhino". That one's got to be been from a forum or youtube comment that BW read somewhere. Maybe those are not as obvious as your Monkey Island scene, but it's close.

#19915
TSA_383

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paxxton wrote...

TSA_383 wrote...

First off, does anyone want a Corsair TX950W PSU? Because my new gaming/bitcoin mining/editing/master of all things PC is such a tremendous **** for voltage that I've had to go out and buy an enermax Maxrevo 1350W.

1350W?!?!?! Posted ImagePosted ImagePosted ImagePosted ImagePosted ImagePosted ImagePosted ImagePosted ImagePosted ImagePosted Image
I have a 350W PSU. I know not very powerful. Posted Image And my GeForce 560 constantly crashes the PC if I play YouTube in full screen. :P

Sounds like you need a 950W PSU ;)

And yeah, it's rediculous, but I've spent silly money on this machine and right now the graphics cards alone are drawing 670W at load.

byne wrote...

I like how it is MASSIVE in all caps, just to let you know it isnt ****ing around.

Yeah, it's not exactly subtle [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/joyful.png[/smilie]

http://youtu.be/WSeNSzJ2-Jw?t=38s
^Every instrument bar the drums and the samples are this synth though :lol:

It's also used to make the voices of the transformers in the transformers movies.

Modifié par TSA_383, 15 juin 2012 - 09:55 .


#19916
TSA_383

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Dwailing wrote...

TSA_383 wrote...


It's a monumentally powerful synth but about as user-friendly as a sandpaper condom:



TSA, with this line, you have officially won the internet for the day.

I wonder if native instruments would quote me on the box art :lol:

#19917
Dwailing

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TSA_383 wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

TSA_383 wrote...


It's a monumentally powerful synth but about as user-friendly as a sandpaper condom:



TSA, with this line, you have officially won the internet for the day.

I wonder if native instruments would quote me on the box art :lol:


That would be awesome, though I doubt that would make people want to buy it...

Modifié par Dwailing, 15 juin 2012 - 09:56 .


#19918
estebanus

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Well, now we at least know that Seival is a troll!

#19919
MaximizedAction

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TSA_383 wrote...
These two however, you've got a bit mixed up.
The ultra-low infrasonic you're seeing in the second dream is likely
spectral leakage, and it's probably a coincidence that this lined up a
bit better in your analysis of the original.
In fact, the second one
which you say has the lower frequencies "missing" has what appears to be
an actual (but quiet) infrasonic peak, whereas the dream sound lacks
one entirely.


The example from the does miss a peak,
but peaks just mean that there was a special frequency intended to stand
out, no peaks don't mean no frequency at all, The y-axis of the dream
bit shows that, although even having a slight minimum still has very
loud frequencies around that, up to -30 dB.
And that's a louder growl part residing in an infrasonic intervall than I've seen in any other file.

But yeah, smeared frequencies are not a very convincing indicator for intended sound placement. Peaks are better.

#19920
Dwailing

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estebanus wrote...

Well, now we at least know that Seival is a troll!


Yeah, it's actually kind of nice when someone makes that clear.  It means that any time we might have wasted on him can now be used for more important things. :)

Edit: Also, don't get any funny ideas.

Modifié par Dwailing, 15 juin 2012 - 10:07 .


#19921
estebanus

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Dwailing wrote...

estebanus wrote...

Well, now we at least know that Seival is a troll!


Yeah, it's actually kind of nice when someone makes that clear.  It means that any time we might have wasted on him can now be used for more important things. :)



And now it was justified for me nuking his normandy crash thread!:devil:

#19922
Dwailing

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estebanus wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

estebanus wrote...

Well, now we at least know that Seival is a troll!


Yeah, it's actually kind of nice when someone makes that clear.  It means that any time we might have wasted on him can now be used for more important things. :)



And now it was justified for me nuking his normandy crash thread!:devil:


No, trolling a troll is not the right way to deal with them.  A BETTER idea is to just ignore him in the first place.

#19923
estebanus

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Dwailing wrote...

estebanus wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

estebanus wrote...

Well, now we at least know that Seival is a troll!


Yeah, it's actually kind of nice when someone makes that clear.  It means that any time we might have wasted on him can now be used for more important things. :)



And now it was justified for me nuking his normandy crash thread!:devil:


No, trolling a troll is not the right way to deal with them.  A BETTER idea is to just ignore him in the first place.



Meh, I was joking.

#19924
estebanus

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Posted my theory about poopthesis over in Seival's thread. Do you think they'll like it?

#19925
Lord Luc1fer

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Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

Seival wrote...

Hello, dear "IT"ers, and welcome to your worst nightmare:
http://social.biowar.../index/12593947

...Err. No offense :)


Since the consensus mission is optional the consensus has to be able to predict the future to the smallest part since just about the same events supposedly happen to a player in the consensus and one who entered it...yeah right.

Consensus theory, check mate.

The problem I have is that the theory obviously hasn't even been made up as a constructive area for interpreting the nedings with a different theory, it's just an immature attempt at dragging ITers down to the level of trolls by irritating us