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[Dwailing]

TSA_383 wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

Unschuld wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

The dream plants are also on Eden Prime btw.

Still wondering why they're called dream plants though. Unless it was because the designer considered them "dream plants" for their own personal garden.

lol.

They were probably created initially for the dream sequences but got repurposed. I've yet to spot any jungle like foliage in the dream sequences. Pehaps they were supposed to look more garden like but they changed it up to look more like a dead forest?

Wait for the child to stop, he usually stops in areas surrounded by them.

There's also a texture called "dreamtree" for the bark of the dead trees, which is used post-harbinger but I'm not too sure where else yet.

MaximizedAction wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

Well,
I'm in the Citadel right now for the end part, and I've just been able
to confirm both the Keeper that can be walked through and the color
drain that occurs by the door. (You guys should know what I mean.)
Also, I'm officially convinced that Shepard was knocked out when the
vehicle he was in was hit. I just kept thinking on the run down, "This
can't be real." (Or some variation on that.)

Edit: Also, I've
noticed that some of the bodies (possibly most) on the Citadel look like
they're either Ash's body (With no hair and indeterminate features),
Kaidan's body (see above), or the default Alliance soldier body.

Double Edit: I also found the 1M1 part on the walk up to the control room (Which does remind me of the walk up to TIM's room).  Also, the electrical discharges do sound kind of like gun fire.
Triple Edit: I'll admit, I'm just reporting on my finding in the end scene at this point (It's fun. )
 I can hear the whispers in the confrontation scene after Anderson
turns around (I assume they're there during the whole scene).

Same thing I noticed during my playthrough!

@triple edit: Oh man, when the musc faded and the whispers started I froze and knew something's not right.

Out of wanting to talk about something that's not the carnifex/predator, I'm taking apart those whispers (well... attempting to ) and seeing what I can hear.
It's definitely not just random whispering type noise, there are definite syllables in there but it's at least five or six voices playing simultaneously and I can't quite hear what's what.
Also, since I've now finished my exams I'm going to make a Dubstep tune and sample Geth voices into it. For the lulz.

Dwailing wrote...

Well, I'm in the Citadel right now for
the end part, and I've just been able to confirm both the Keeper that
can be walked through and the color drain that occurs by the door. (You
guys should know what I mean.) Also, I'm officially convinced that
Shepard was knocked out when the vehicle he was in was hit. I just kept
thinking on the run down, "This can't be real." (Or some variation on
that.)

Edit: Also, I've noticed that some of the bodies (possibly
most) on the Citadel look like they're either Ash's body (With no hair
and indeterminate features), Kaidan's body (see above), or the default
Alliance soldier body.

Double Edit: I also found the 1M1 part on
the walk up to the control room (Which does remind me of the walk up to
TIM's room).  Also, the electrical discharges do sound kind of like gun
fire.

Triple Edit: I'll admit, I'm just reporting on my finding in the end scene at this point (It's fun. [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/wink.png[/smilie])
 I can hear the whispers in the confrontation scene after Anderson
turns around (I assume they're there during the whole scene).

Quadruple
Edit: I see the shadows around the edges.  Also, Anderson definitely
looks at the camera when he says, "They're controling you."

So many Edits I'm going to stop naming them [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/smile.png[/smilie]:
I saw that strange business with the differing shadows of Anderson and
TIM (They actually cut the camera in such a way that you could plainly
see it.)  Also, Anderson lifted his arm in the exact same way as Shepard
after he was forced to raise his arm and point his gun at Anderson.  (I
know most of us know these things already, but I figure it can't hurt
to repost them while they're fresh in my mind.  I'm reporting this as I
go through the scene.)

Edit: Anderson also looked at the camera
when he said, "You're indoctrinated." (Or the camera looked him square
in the face even if he didn't look exactly into it.)  Also, I forgot to
mention that business with the moving walls from the Shadow Broker Ship
(They do remind me of those even if they aren't identical.), and the sky
car traffic in the background.

Edit: Quite possibly my favorite
suggestion in this scene, the camera pushes right into Shepard's face
when he says, "Don't let them control you." (And all the other stuff he
says at that moment about fighting back against their control.)

Edit:
Again with the weird shadows.  When Anderson falls over after TIM blows
his own brains out, their shadows are pointing in exact opposite
directions.

Edit: Then there is that bit with Shepard holding the
exact same side that Anderson was shot on, also the same side that
Anderson tapped him on in the beggining, (Chekhov's Gun anyone?) and
Shepard's arm getting very bloody afterwards.

Edit: View of Earth resembling view of star in TIM's room including the explosions going on outside.

Edit: Strange platform that rose out of the floor seemingly only so Shepard and Anderson would have something to lean on.

Edit:
Oh yeah, forgot to mention the strange plants and the dream trees that
are there on the run down.  Also, there were those few dream trees that
popped up behind Shepard after the blast from Harbinger (Pretty strange
that he just flew away, don't ya think?)  And there were those strange
piles of corpses that were around the Conduit.

Edit: Oh yeah, I
also forgot to mention the stange return of Shepard's scars, which
shouldn't be there considering I had the upgrade from ME2 that removes
them permanently.

Edit: Shepard's arm just got very bloody after
Anderson "died".  Also, he looked at it again, and they zoomed in very
specifically on that spot, a spot that Shepard had not been shot in up
to this point as far as I can tell.

Edit: Hackett just
contacted Shepard, and there was that strange business with Shepard,
Commander like Legion used to call him.  Honestly, I don't see why he
would address him in that order.  If it were me, I would have said,
Commander, Shepard, refering to him by rank first and then by name as I
got more desparate for him to pick up.

Edit: He's just
been raised up by the beam of light, and there was the fade to white
that popped up again, the same fade to white that you see when in the
Consensus, and that you see when Shepard gets "knocked out" by
Harbinger. (I used quotes since I'm working under the assumption that
that whole run was just a hallucination as well.

Edit: Ah,
ReaperBieber and his BS drivel about organics and synthetics.  Also, I
can hear Mark Meer's and Jennifer Hale's voices overlaid on his.  I see
the out of place 1M1 again, and I noticed that you see the same fade to
white again with the intro to the cutscene where you see Anderson
choosing Destroy.  I assume that it pops up again on the Control
cutscene with TIM.

Edit: Well, here I go, I'm going to choose
Destroy.  And if you listen, even Shepard doesn't sound like he has very
confidence in Synthesis.  Honestly, I don't think he likes any of
them.  

Edit: I'm not sure if I can see the trees or not.  I don't doubt that they're there, I'm just not sure if I can see them.

Edit: WOOT!  I saw one of the trees!

Nice rolling coverage

On the two points highlighted - has anyone flycammed the thing they're leaning on? I hadn't thought of that but it seems interesting in the context of such a choreographed ending and may provide clues.

Also, for the second bit, notice how the dream reverb is used to filter Shepard's words, but not the coughing noise he/she makes, but is not used to filter Hackett's voice. From the dialogue it is not clear at all that Hackett can hear Shepard, and it makes even less sense in the context of Coates telling everyone that Shep is dead.

Thanks!  I figured I might as well on the off chance that I noticed something someone else might have missed, or that I might bring up something we had forgotten.  Also, I look forward to seeing the results of your analysis of the whispers, that would definitely shed some light on the scene.

[RavenEyry]

Dwailing wrote...

Edit: Not sure if this mean anything, but did anyone else notice that it looks like when the Citadel is charging the beam the debris in the area seems to be sucked in towards it?  That just strikes me as weird.  Also, while the Presidium ring was intact, Shepard was at the epicenter of that blast, there is no way he survived that AND reentry.

Edit: So, I believe we determined that the blast did, in fact, start in the Viper Nebula, right?

I noticed the 'magnet effect' the first time and thought it was weird, but can't think of any meaning behind it so never mentioned before.

I don't know where the first explosion starts but it's definately not Sol.

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

Legion109 wrote...

Nazara-Your civilization is based on the technology of the mass relays. Our technology. By using it, your civilization develops along the paths we desire. We impose order on the chaos of organic life. You exist because we allow it, and you will end because we demand...... (Just gonna leave that here, since Legion clearly forgot about quoting Nazara in ME2. Also if a dead reaper can still affect people when it is little more then a shell wouldn't the reaper code be a lot worse lets face it they are lifetimes ahead of the Geth in terms of technology so I don't see legion being able to adequately alter the code to get only benefits but no weaknesses)(also kind of using this as a shot at the crucible since the last time alien tech that the origin wasn't clearly known certainly didn't proclaim we were advanced enough for synthetic/organic hybrid aliens to come harvest us)

Bottom line is I have no clue what the bottom line is.

I am gonna disagree.

We dont know the exact nature of the Reaper upgrades, but the fact is that apperently Legion remained in control of himself in spite of the upgrades. How exactly he could that while not explained is probably atributed to him beeing an uniquie model who do not need a hub or other units nearby beyond the systems in itself. He is even restrained when we find him, despite the Reaper code, clearly showing they held no control over him.

Once that is outta the way, no matter how it is the case that he is not controlled, it is not unfeasible in any way that he could locate the very thing that allows him to stay free and send it along with the Reaper upgrades.

[paxxton]

This is a wall of text for today:

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

paxxton wrote...

TIM has been implanted for the last scene. He can control the nanides.

Then how do you explain that Biotic Pulse thing, TIm did it for show?

The implants he got allowed him to use biotics. Like the L-implants.

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...
Oh and as mentioned there is a distinct lack of a thick green gas like substance in the control chamber, the subtsance clearly shown turning people into husks in the vids. Something like that is not just missed.

 When TIM dies, there is no one to control the nanides. Without new coming, those in the air diffuse.

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...
You also fail to adress how Shepard and Anderson are not reduced to mindless beeings by the nanites. see the nanites that make husks are not controlling the person in any way, tehy only take fluids and other stuff out of the victims body and replace it with extensive machinery and it is through that machinery, not the nanites, that the Reapers control them. Shortly said even if it wa airborne nanites the Illusive man would ahve zero control until Shepard and Anderson were a pair of husks.

The process isn't instantaneous.

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...
And the most blatant thing of all. The Repears have a billion years (at least going by the Leviathan of Dis) behind them and created the original husk process. If they could make that process airborne in an even remotely controlled and large scale way then they would not need Indoctrination at all.

Indoctrination works by means of using nanides as discovered on Sanctuary.

Modifié par paxxton, 17 mai 2012 - 04:57 .

[Dwailing]

Well, I'm done with my coverage. I would suggest that you look at it simply for my signing off line.

Edit: Also, say what you will about the endings, but doesn't the music just make you want to start doing the Shepard/Spectre Slide/Shuffle?

Modifié par Dwailing, 17 mai 2012 - 05:00 .

[llbountyhunter]

dreamgazer wrote...

Unschuld wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

The dream plants are also on Eden Prime btw.

Still wondering why they're called dream plants though. Unless it was because the designer considered them "dream plants" for their own personal garden.

I jokingly said something to the same effect in a previous thread---that the designers just thought of them as "dreamy" and labeled them as such.  Simplest explanation and all, right?  (laughs)

Nothing at all to do with organization and reference. 

what about this one?........ it kinda looks like a.....bad [insert pun here]  

[llbountyhunter]

paxxton wrote...

This is a wall of text for today:

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

paxxton wrote...

TIM has been implanted for the last scene. He can control the nanides.

Then how do you explain that Biotic Pulse thing, TIm did it for show?

The implants he got allowed him to use biotics. Like the L-implants.

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...
Oh and as mentioned there is a distinct lack of a thick green gas like substance in the control chamber, the subtsance clearly shown turning people into husks in the vids. Something like that is not just missed.

 When TIM dies, there is no one to control the nanides. Without new coming, those in the air diffuse.

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...
You also fail to adress how Shepard and Anderson are not reduced to mindless beeings by the nanites. see the nanites that make husks are not controlling the person in any way, tehy only take fluids and other stuff out of the victims body and replace it with extensive machinery and it is through that machinery, not the nanites, that the Reapers control them. Shortly said even if it wa airborne nanites the Illusive man would ahve zero control until Shepard and Anderson were a pair of husks.

The process isn't instantaneous.

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...
And the most blatant thing of all. The Repears have a billion years (at least going by the Leviathan of Dis) behind them and created the original husk process. If they could make that process airborne in an even remotely controlled and large scale way then they would not need Indoctrination at all.

Indoctrination works by means of using nanides as discovered on Sanctuary.

shouldnt this be on your popular nanite theory thread?

[paxxton]

llbountyhunter wrote...

shouldnt this be on your popular nanite theory thread?

Let's consider this as a contextual advertisement.

C'mon. There'll be millions of posts there any minute now.

Modifié par paxxton, 17 mai 2012 - 05:07 .

[TSA_383]

llbountyhunter wrote...
*snip*

shouldnt this be on your popular nanite theory thread?

+ (9000^G)

(G representing Graham's number...)

(basically, stop spamming nanites)

Modifié par TSA_383, 17 mai 2012 - 05:07 .

[Dwailing]

OK, I'll admit it, I actually kind of like the Stargazer scene. Also, just because the kid calls Shepard, "The Shepard, " doesn't mean that's what everybody calls him. It could just be that that's what the Stargazer called him in the story for the kid.

[TSA_383]

So.....much.....facepalm:
http://social.biowar.../index/12106087

[estebanus]

john_sheparrd wrote...

I love the Indoctrination Theory It would be great when it is True

Thanks, man. It means a lot to us that people like what we're doing here.

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

paxxton wrote...

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

paxxton wrote...

TIM has been implanted for the last scene. He can control the nanides.

Then how do you explain that Biotic Pulse thing, TIm did it for show?

The implants he got allowed him to use biotics. Like the L-implants.

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...
Oh and as mentioned there is a distinct lack of a thick green gas like substance in the control chamber, the subtsance clearly shown turning people into husks in the vids. Something like that is not just missed.

 When TIM dies, there is no one to control the nanides. Without new coming, those in the air diffuse.

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...
You also fail to adress how Shepard and Anderson are not reduced to mindless beeings by the nanites. see the nanites that make husks are not controlling the person in any way, tehy only take fluids and other stuff out of the victims body and replace it with extensive machinery and it is through that machinery, not the nanites, that the Reapers control them. Shortly said even if it wa airborne nanites the Illusive man would ahve zero control until Shepard and Anderson were a pair of husks.

The process isn't instantaneous.

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...
And the most blatant thing of all. The Repears have a billion years (at least going by the Leviathan of Dis) behind them and created the original husk process. If they could make that process airborne in an even remotely controlled and large scale way then they would not need Indoctrination at all.

Indoctrination works by means of using nanides as discovered on Sanctuary.

Oh you replied, well to bad you are dead wrong on several accounts.

1: The huskification process as shown through a vid on Sanctuary is near instanttenous. We see a green cloud (the nanintes i presume) envelop a civilian and moments later the civilian is  husk, that is fact. That process is extremely fast and the nanites clearly visible, why is that not the case with TIM since according to you the nanites are directly based on Sanctuary ressearch?

Here is a link to link the vid from Sanctuary: Go to 12:45

2: As I have mentioned multiple times, the nanites that create husks do not control them, they are only used for the conversion process. How can we know that, well look at the codex entry for a husk: 



Husks are the aggressive, mindless foot soldiers of the Reaper armies. They are created by impaling either living or dead humans on mechanical spikes
that rapidly extract water and trace minerals and replace them with
cybernetics. These cybernetics reanimate the lifeless flesh and tissue,
transforming the bodies into horrifying killing machines.

"The cybernetics reanimate the lifeless tissue," not a single word on nanitescontrolling the husk only that the cybernetics which has been placed in the body by the nanintes renaimate it (and thus is what is controlling it) The nanites convert the person into husk, they have nothing to do with the actual control of the person or husk. They only create the amchiens allowing control.

This is futher supported by the fact that creating husks would be a loss of ressources of the nanites could control them as a husk is mindless and uanble to use a weapon as opposed to a living solider who if controlled by nanites could use weapons and you could extract information from him.

Shortly said, the nanites do not control the person.

3:

Where in sanctuary do they say Indoctrination include nanites? Direct quote please.

From what i heard they only talk about the husk conversion process and if it was indeed nanties then why is everyone whoe ver touched a Reaper or Reaper artifact not instant controlled the way you say it is possible.

So sum up the problems with nanites you still ahve not adressed.

1: Why is their not a clear green swarm of Nanites as shown in Sanctuary?
2: Why is the process not near instantenous as shown in Sanctuary?
3: Why do you keep babling about nanites controlling the husks when clearly that is not the case?

Please try to adress all questions next time and not what only suits your theory.

[StElmo]

estebanus wrote...

john_sheparrd wrote...

I love the Indoctrination Theory It would be great when it is True

Thanks, man. It means a lot to us that people like what we're doing here.

I hope nobody thinks they are writing Indoc Theory. It is a detective game, not a fan fiction.

[Rosewind]

Dwailing wrote...

Rosewind wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

OK, if you want to keep watching my reports on the end scene, look on the last page 'cause that's what I'm going to keep editing.

It was like reading a transcript of a news event.

Good or bad thing?

Good thing made it more entertaining

[estebanus]

StElmo wrote...

estebanus wrote...

john_sheparrd wrote...

I love the Indoctrination Theory It would be great when it is True

Thanks, man. It means a lot to us that people like what we're doing here.

I hope nobody thinks they are writing Indoc Theory. It is a detective game, not a fan fiction.

I think you misuderstood my post.

I meant that it's nice that there at least are a FEW people out there who don't call us cultists, zealots, and conspiracy theorists!

[RavenEyry]

estebanus wrote...

I meant that it's nice that there at least are a FEW people out there who don't call us cultists, zealots, and conspiracy theorists!

I like it too. I'm perfectly happy that some people don't agree with us or don't believe us or are skeptical, but I hate people that burst into threads to shout disjointed insults before running away.

[DJBare]

Just putting out an obvious one here, this is the impact of the shot from Marauder shields, click image for larger.

Yet Shepard being a tough old bird continues to use the right hand to wield the gun.
In the next frame

Great chunks being blown out of the shoulder.

Modifié par DJBare, 17 mai 2012 - 05:45 .

[MegumiAzusa]

From the extracted files there seem to be different versions still in there, even when Hackett is calling Shep:

"Shepard, Commander!"
"{Groans}"
"Nothing's happening. The Crucible's not firing."
"I-- What do you need me to do?"
"It's got to be something on your end."
"I don't see-- I'm not sure how to..."
"Do what you can. There's got to be something."
"Commander?"
"Commander Shepard!"

Looks like they removed the line "Do what you can. There's got to be something." on purpose.

Also looking through the Anderson/TIM conflict: Neither Anderson nor TIM are talking to each other, the listener (that is who the active pawn is looking at) is always Shepard. There is also a bit where Anderson tells Shepard: "Shoot me." with a following dialog end.

llbountyhunter wrote...



what about this one?........ it kinda looks like a.....bad [insert pun here]  

I'll bite:
does this thing come in different settings for different hums?

Modifié par MegumiAzusa, 17 mai 2012 - 05:47 .

[llbountyhunter]

found this old interview with Casey.....




Q: So how do you stop something unstoppably massive?[/b]
Casey Hudson: That's something we reveal over time. You see humans being harvested and processed to become fuel for the way Reapers reproduce. This is their reproductive cycle and we're just a part of it. We're nothing to them.

http://www.computera...ough-decisions/ 

[WinterCrow]

Im going to quote just one thing from you, Dwailing, since quoting the whole post is so daaaamn long...

"Edit: Strange platform that rose out of the floor seemingly only so Shepard and Anderson would have something to lean on."

I was specifically looking at that during my last playthrough, cause I was trying to think anti-IT for a moment and I came up with the "maybe when you trigger the arms it rises". But it doesn't. You can see the center of the platform while you activate the panel, and you get one more glimpse right after if I'm not mistaken. The platform is never there, it magically appears once the opening is finished.

Another funny thing, though it's probably just a stupid mistake but I still say "WTF" when it happens, is the fact that Shepard has his right hand out of the magic-white-light-platform-elevator. When you wake up afterwards, the floor is perfectly flat. I really think that would crush your hand if it happened lol

[RavenEyry]

MegumiAzusa wrote...


Also looking through the Anderson/TIM conflict: Neither Anderson nor TIM are talking to each other, the listener (that is who the active pawn is looking at) is always Shepard. There is also a bit where Anderson tells Shepard: "Shoot me." with a following dialog end.

That really adds to the 'angel and devil on the shoulder vibe' if they're both trying to convince Shep instead of each other.

[MegumiAzusa]

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

2: As I have mentioned multiple times, the nanites that create husks do not control them, they are only used for the conversion process. How can we know that, well look at the codex entry for a husk: 



Husks are the aggressive, mindless foot soldiers of the Reaper armies. They are created by impaling either living or dead humans on mechanical spikes
that rapidly extract water and trace minerals and replace them with
cybernetics. These cybernetics reanimate the lifeless flesh and tissue,
transforming the bodies into horrifying killing machines.

"The cybernetics reanimate the lifeless tissue," not a single word on nanitescontrolling the husk only that the cybernetics which has been placed in the body by the nanintes renaimate it (and thus is what is controlling it) The nanites convert the person into husk, they have nothing to do with the actual control of the person or husk. They only create the amchiens allowing control.

This is futher supported by the fact that creating husks would be a loss of ressources of the nanites could control them as a husk is mindless and uanble to use a weapon as opposed to a living solider who if controlled by nanites could use weapons and you could extract information from him.

Shortly said, the nanites do not control the person.

3:

Where in sanctuary do they say Indoctrination include nanites? Direct quote please.

And again:
"We've confirmed the results of Cerberus experiments involving the husk creatures. A crude, but necessary, first step in decoding how the Reapers communicate. The key is how the Reaper signal interacts with the nanides implanted within the subject's body. It's early yet, but we are making progress."

[paxxton]

MegumiAzusa wrote...

From the extracted files there seem to be different versions still in there, even when Hackett is calling Shep:

"Shepard, Commander!"
"{Groans}"
"Nothing's happening. The Crucible's not firing."
"I-- What do you need me to do?"
"It's got to be something on your end."
"I don't see-- I'm not sure how to..."
"Do what you can. There's got to be something."
"Commander?"
"Commander Shepard!"

Looks like they removed the line "Do what you can. There's got to be something." on purpose.

LOL. After reading the first line I thought it was Legion speaking. That'd be hilarious.

Modifié par paxxton, 17 mai 2012 - 05:55 .