55528 réponses à ce sujet

[HellishFiend]

Turbo_J wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

Starbuck8 wrote...

Hmm, well, it was always strange that they left the citadel alone for so long. I would think they'd attack it around the same time as earth, palaven, thessia, etc. Perhaps they were putting off capturing the citadel (for some reason) but always planned to take it to earth eventually (I think they may use it to grow a new reaper inside). Once learning of the crucible, they accelerated their plans to secure the crucible...?

I kinda tend not to believe that they're planning on making a Reaper at the Citadel. Wouldnt the facility for making a Reaper be too large to hide? Heck, maybe that's what the Crucible is for. 

lol - thats what I joked about a few hundred pages ago... We were talking about it being a trap and I'm like... crap. Did we all just make a Reaper womb?

I wouldnt be surprised. It would make just as much sense as the idea that it powers the Citadel Relay to send the Reapers back to darkspace. I think theyre both just as plausible. 

By the way, I just got done talking to Vega for the first time in a new playthrough (Full Import, everything done except for Arrival, it was my insanity run before Arrival came out). After exhausting all dialog, he started mentioning the hum. So I guess it has nothing to do with whatever recent mission you've done.

I kept an ear out for anything that sounded suspicious, but most of what he had to say seemed pretty innocuous. 

[ZerebusPrime]

Turbo_J wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

Starbuck8 wrote...

Hmm, well, it was always strange that they left the citadel alone for so long. I would think they'd attack it around the same time as earth, palaven, thessia, etc. Perhaps they were putting off capturing the citadel (for some reason) but always planned to take it to earth eventually (I think they may use it to grow a new reaper inside). Once learning of the crucible, they accelerated their plans to secure the crucible...?

I kinda tend not to believe that they're planning on making a Reaper at the Citadel. Wouldnt the facility for making a Reaper be too large to hide? Heck, maybe that's what the Crucible is for. 

lol - thats what I joked about a few hundred pages ago... We were talking about it being a trap and I'm like... crap. Did we all just make a Reaper womb?

Complete with a Reaper heart! (seriously, what were the Alliance salvage teams thinking?!?!)

[Salient Archer]

MaximizedAction wrote...

Humakt83 wrote...

Did anyone notice Reaper landing on Mars?

Why did they do it as an easter egg? They did mention that the Reapers were coming and Normandy had to leave.
So why make it so difficult to spot? After having played that part 3 times, I never once noticed it until your post.

It's like that third squadmember disappearing behind the bushes during the Synthesis cutscene...

I didn't think it was that cryptic, I noticed it on my first playthrough but I also have a 60" screen... 

[Turbo_J]

One note on the view bob. We need to look at it a different way. I don't think it's ransom. I think view bob is Shep's subconscious trying to alert them to the fact that something is not right. Don't think the bob as being in a dream or hallucination, but think of it as the mind trying to wake up.

[ZerebusPrime]

Gotta admit, though... erasing the Prothean archives before the Reapers land would make it take longer for the Reapers to realize that we have plans for the Crucible.

[umadcommander]

ZerebusPrime wrote...

Turbo_J wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

Starbuck8 wrote...

Hmm, well, it was always strange that they left the citadel alone for so long. I would think they'd attack it around the same time as earth, palaven, thessia, etc. Perhaps they were putting off capturing the citadel (for some reason) but always planned to take it to earth eventually (I think they may use it to grow a new reaper inside). Once learning of the crucible, they accelerated their plans to secure the crucible...?

I kinda tend not to believe that they're planning on making a Reaper at the Citadel. Wouldnt the facility for making a Reaper be too large to hide? Heck, maybe that's what the Crucible is for. 

lol - thats what I joked about a few hundred pages ago... We were talking about it being a trap and I'm like... crap. Did we all just make a Reaper womb?

Complete with a Reaper heart! (seriously, what were the Alliance salvage teams thinking?!?!)

Im sure they know what they're doing <_<

[TJBartlemus]

Turbo_J wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

Starbuck8 wrote...

Hmm, well, it was always strange that they left the citadel alone for so long. I would think they'd attack it around the same time as earth, palaven, thessia, etc. Perhaps they were putting off capturing the citadel (for some reason) but always planned to take it to earth eventually (I think they may use it to grow a new reaper inside). Once learning of the crucible, they accelerated their plans to secure the crucible...?

I kinda tend not to believe that they're planning on making a Reaper at the Citadel. Wouldnt the facility for making a Reaper be too large to hide? Heck, maybe that's what the Crucible is for. 

lol - thats what I joked about a few hundred pages ago... We were talking about it being a trap and I'm like... crap. Did we all just make a Reaper womb?

How BioWare should have Admiral Hacket when he hears the truth of the Crucible.

[HellishFiend]

Turbo_J wrote...

One note on the view bob. We need to look at it a different way. I don't think it's ransom. I think view bob is Shep's subconscious trying to alert them to the fact that something is not right. Don't think the bob as being in a dream or hallucination, but think of it as the mind trying to wake up.

So in other words, if you had a better playthrough, or more EMS, thats when you get the view bob?

[HellishFiend]

ZerebusPrime wrote...

Gotta admit, though... erasing the Prothean archives before the Reapers land would make it take longer for the Reapers to realize that we have plans for the Crucible.

Not sure that matters much, though. With indoctrinated spies everywhere, the Reaper's intel and espionage capabilities would ensure that they knew about the Crucible long before it was finished. In fact, I wouldnt be surprised if we turned up something that infers just that, if we looked hard enough. 

[LazyTechGuy]

@Jade8aby88, PC box art?

[Turbo_J]

HellishFiend wrote...

Turbo_J wrote...

One note on the view bob. We need to look at it a different way. I don't think it's ransom. I think view bob is Shep's subconscious trying to alert them to the fact that something is not right. Don't think the bob as being in a dream or hallucination, but think of it as the mind trying to wake up.

So in other words, if you had a better playthrough, or more EMS, thats when you get the view bob?

Possibly. It may also be driven by specific events or even random like the labored breathing. I think that latter make be a bug they left in, but the bob. No. It's only constant in one place. The weapon loadout screen. After that it can show up any time before the tank/truck crash.

I've always had it from the crash; start of the run on foot, until waking on the Citadel. Why isn't it still there? Harbi's beam made it worse possibly because it was traumatic, but the ride to the Citadel... kind of a reaffirming of the fake reality, maybe?

[BleedingUranium]

HellishFiend wrote...

ZerebusPrime wrote...

Gotta admit, though... erasing the Prothean archives before the Reapers land would make it take longer for the Reapers to realize that we have plans for the Crucible.

Not sure that matters much, though. With indoctrinated spies everywhere, the Reaper's intel and espionage capabilities would ensure that they knew about the Crucible long before it was finished. In fact, I wouldnt be surprised if we turned up something that infers just that, if we looked hard enough. 

If you killed the RQ in ME1, but save the gross Reaper one in 3, it betrays you, so the Reapers should not only know the Crucible exists, but quite a bit about it too. They do nothing.

[Turbo_J]

HellishFiend wrote...

ZerebusPrime wrote...

Gotta admit, though... erasing the Prothean archives before the Reapers land would make it take longer for the Reapers to realize that we have plans for the Crucible.

Not sure that matters much, though. With indoctrinated spies everywhere, the Reaper's intel and espionage capabilities would ensure that they knew about the Crucible long before it was finished. In fact, I wouldnt be surprised if we turned up something that infers just that, if we looked hard enough. 

I did. Jacob's woman Brin, is Indoctrinated. You can see it in her datapad message. I'll see if someone has a video of that area and report back.

[HellishFiend]

Turbo_J wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

Turbo_J wrote...

One note on the view bob. We need to look at it a different way. I don't think it's ransom. I think view bob is Shep's subconscious trying to alert them to the fact that something is not right. Don't think the bob as being in a dream or hallucination, but think of it as the mind trying to wake up.

So in other words, if you had a better playthrough, or more EMS, thats when you get the view bob?

Possibly. It may also be driven by specific events or even random like the labored breathing. I think that latter make be a bug they left in, but the bob. No. It's only constant in one place. The weapon loadout screen. After that it can show up any time before the tank/truck crash.

I've always had it from the crash; start of the run on foot, until waking on the Citadel. Why isn't it still there? Harbi's beam made it worse possibly because it was traumatic, but the ride to the Citadel... kind of a reaffirming of the fake reality, maybe?

In the run I did last night, I had it from the weapon bench all the way to the run, then (unless I'm misremembering) I did not have the view bob during the run.

[paxxton]

This is the answer. Don't worry if it doesn't make sense to you yet. Everything can be explained.
 Wall of text follows.

MaximizedAction wrote...

Wall of text incoming. Sorry..but...have to...comment...argh:

paxxton wrote...

@Riot86: What an insightful post you made!

References to the shadows of buildings from Vancouver are all music to my ears and honey on my heart.  It reinforces the idea that Shepard is still lying on the floor in Vancouver HQ and the whole game is happening in his mind. References to other parts of the game in London even further reinforce that idea. In London Shepard's mind is tired (the brain is overheated at that moment) and everything he lived through starts to collapse into a single reality. Different times of the dream weave together to form a subconcious, subliminal framework for London. Partially visible to Shepard because of the deficiencies of human brain which simply cannot process the vast amounts of dreamtime simultaneously.

The Cronos Station mission seems to figuratively present TIM's viewpoint (Control) while London presents Anderson's viewpoint (Destroy). Moreover, London looks like a compilation (Synthesis) of hints pointing to various parts of the game (from the beginning till the end) as if it was meant as a twisted psychedelic ride through Mass Effect 3 (a kind of "refresher" before the final choice has to be made).

Perhaps Cronos Station is also a compilation of sorts. Then both Cronos Station and London would be meant as presenting Synthesis along the respective other viewpoints.

While I hesitate to believe that everything that happened in the game is a hallucination, I don't have a problem imagining a scenario like the Futurama one where Lila gets stabbed by a spacebee and starts having weird hallucinations, and the revelation of that: priceless.

Here you are refering to a similar previous concept. This helps initially accept the premise of Reaper-induced Shepard's Dream Theory.

MaximizedAction wrote...
So if ME3 is going to go with something similar -- and that last DatapadApp message you get from the VS certainly doesn't exclude the possibility that certain stages that we played in ME3 are recapitulations of Shep's mind. IMO, it did all happen, the invasion, the priority missions, but the way we witness it, it could be Shep lying in the hospital/brig, going through all that again.

My theory embraces that message by assuming Shepard being in hospital as the continuation of the dream induced by the Reapers in Vancouver.

MaximizedAction wrote...
It would also fit within the way we as players playing through the game over and over again, while the ARG Reaper war seems to progress in stages suggested in the MP, even though we all thought we defeated the Reapers in SP.

This can be explained by considering that while Shepard is lying on the ground in Vancouver, other people (this time real players' avatars) are fighting. Furthermore, remember that timescales used in SP and MP timelines may not be the same. What takes months in MP (all the OPs) might actually happen in a lot shorter time when considered on the SP timescale. I don't remember but there's no mention in ME3 how long the SP campaign lasts in the ME timeframe.

MaximizedAction wrote... 
Who knows, that Aequitas 'bug' Megumi tried to analyse also points towards the direction that somehow the number of playthroughs seems to alter something. And that only makes sense if Shepard is not really going through all of the war, but only in his mind.

I know about Aequitas issue in ME3. The number of playthroughs' influence is news to me though. Nevertheless, the meaning of Aequitas in Reaper-induced Shepard's Dream Theory is twofold. Internal, which coincides with IT interpretation (seen by Shepard as part of reality), and external (a hint from Shepard's consciousness) that what he is experiencing is not real but an attempt by the Reapers to persuade him to do what they want (indoctrinate), to inject behavioral patterns by showing him the outcomes of fictional situations that are plausible (can happen in Shepard's reality). It could also be so that after he's awake he won't be able to completely distinguish reality from dream. Basically, there is a layer of indirection between the player and Shepard's dream which is S's reality (that we do not know yet because BioWare showed us the  dream only).

MaximizedAction wrote...
So, I don't know if it wouldn't be too cheapening for BioWare to let Shepard lie on the ground in Vancouver HQ after the hit and nothing about the war we saw was real, but he might certainly be lying somewhere after having gone through everything.

I think RSDT is mind-twisting.

MaximizedAction wrote...
But that's just my version of your approach.

Thanks for commenting.

MaximizedAction wrote...
And yes, of course, Cronos and London, from a story-smithing p.o.v. represent TIM and Anderson respectively. That Anderson even told to us that he was born in London, it clearly goes personal here. But that could also be just the characters representing those locations and vica verse. Remember, it's just a story, not reality. In a story, not matter if intended surreal or not, the author always designs interpretable connections that real world scenarios seldomly have. Or in other words, yeah, TIM and Anderson do seem like personifications of those missions, but that doesn't mean that this has to have more bearing to it.

Yes, the game's story isn't reality. But in his dream Shepard assigns certain meanings to certain places, people or situations. That assignments are based on his life experience up to the point when he falls unconscious on the floor in Vancouver HQ. Or they can be forced by the Reapers to create an illusive framework that makes Shepard's mind accept Reaper-induced dream as being what he lives through (accept it as part of reality after he's awake).

Modifié par paxxton, 17 juin 2012 - 12:54 .

[Salient Archer]

Arian Dynas wrote...

Salient Archer wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

Salient Archer wrote...

TSA_383 wrote...

Salient Archer wrote...

I've been playing through the genophage story arc again and just finished my conversation with Eve about how she became a Korgan Shaman and I remembered that when I first played through that scene I really thought that both the crystal she hands you and her quote "Take it as a reminder, commander. In the darkest hour, there is always a way out." were going to relate directly to the end game somehow (as cheesy as that sounds).

Between this, Liara's "gift", the consort from ME1, Shiala's cipher, your contact with the prothean beam etc etc etc, I think this will have something to do with your ability to overcome indoctrination...

Agreed, the more I think about it the more I refuse to believe that all that foreshadowing would just be ignored, why establish any of it in the first place only to not have them play out.

Couldn't sleep, came back on to pester all of you.

Very well done Salient, you should A). proofread it, . Make a thread for it and see what you get, and C). Send this to Parabolee.

Thanks Arian and sucks that you can't sleep, although I know all to well what that's like.
A). doing that right now actually as I'm fine tuning it for google docs.
. Hadn't considered that, but I'll give it a go. Besides, whats the worst that'll happen? I doubt trolls will get far enough through it to know how to criticize it and
C). Who is Parabolee?

Parabolee is running the official IDT website.

Which despite my most valiant efforts, I remain uncredited on. 

Ohh... THAT Parabolee, right...

you should write him an angry letter (not e-mail).

[HellishFiend]

BleedingUranium wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

ZerebusPrime wrote...

Gotta admit, though... erasing the Prothean archives before the Reapers land would make it take longer for the Reapers to realize that we have plans for the Crucible.

Not sure that matters much, though. With indoctrinated spies everywhere, the Reaper's intel and espionage capabilities would ensure that they knew about the Crucible long before it was finished. In fact, I wouldnt be surprised if we turned up something that infers just that, if we looked hard enough. 

If you killed the RQ in ME1, but save the gross Reaper one in 3, it betrays you, so the Reapers should not only know the Crucible exists, but quite a bit about it too. They do nothing.

Yep, there's an example right there. 

[Rifneno]

Turbo_J wrote...

I did. Jacob's woman Brin, is Indoctrinated. You can see it in her datapad message. I'll see if someone has a video of that area and report back.

Oh snap.  Serves that bastard right.

[TJBartlemus]

Riot86 wrote...

Starbuck8 wrote...

TJBartlemus wrote...

Finally got my theory down about an hour ago. It's my explaination to the strangeness of London and ties in to the IT. I wrote it before Riot86's post with new evidence on London so it doesn't have that yet but I hope to get some of it in if it fits.

Anyway, you guys should check it out. http://social.biowar...87/blog/214072/

Edit: It seems that BSN isn't friendly to changing from Microsoft Word on my computer.

I do kinda like your theory about the beam as an indoctrination device. Was it you or someone else here who mentioned that the artifact on Aequitas drew people to it and appeared to glow as they became indoctrinated?

I also think a waking nightmare could be a plausible explanation for all those weird things in London

The other explanation could be of course that London doesn't take place outside of Shepard's head at all (aArian supports this idea for example). But I don't have seen a clear indication when this "full dream" is supposed to start, yet. Hence at the moment(!) I actually think that TJBartlemus' waking nightmare theory sounds more logical to me.

However, I'm not 100% sure about the beam itself as an indoctrination device. But I wouldn't rule it out either, it COULD be the source of some sort of Reaper signal, of course. We still need to find more evidence, though.

Glad someone finally thought about my theory and put down a response. I thought about Arians and it made no sense because as you said there is no definite point for the change except after harbinger's beam. And currently my theory works with the evidence shown so far.

The beam as an indoctrination device has some weight to it. There is no doubt that it affects it's surroundings because it affects the rockets. If the rockets are real then the beam affects it physically. If the rockets aren't then I feel it's your mind warning you that the beam affects it's surroundings. Also the beam IS reaper technology. And so far all working Reaper technology has been proven to indoctrinate. So the scale of the object must also affect the amount of indoctrination and distance.

Modifié par TJBartlemus, 17 juin 2012 - 12:56 .

[Turbo_J]

HellishFiend wrote...

Turbo_J wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

Turbo_J wrote...

One note on the view bob. We need to look at it a different way. I don't think it's ransom. I think view bob is Shep's subconscious trying to alert them to the fact that something is not right. Don't think the bob as being in a dream or hallucination, but think of it as the mind trying to wake up.

So in other words, if you had a better playthrough, or more EMS, thats when you get the view bob?

Possibly. It may also be driven by specific events or even random like the labored breathing. I think that latter make be a bug they left in, but the bob. No. It's only constant in one place. The weapon loadout screen. After that it can show up any time before the tank/truck crash.

I've always had it from the crash; start of the run on foot, until waking on the Citadel. Why isn't it still there? Harbi's beam made it worse possibly because it was traumatic, but the ride to the Citadel... kind of a reaffirming of the fake reality, maybe?

In the run I did last night, I had it from the weapon bench all the way to the run, then (unless I'm misremembering) I did not have the view bob during the run.

That's bizarre... maybe it's just random them and you get it at least long enough to notice it. For some people not to get it and others to get it for such a long stretch of the run. I don't know.

*Throws hands up in confusion*

[HellishFiend]

paxxton wrote...

I know about Aequitas issue in ME3. The number of playthroughs' influence is news to me though. Nevertheless, the meaning of Aequitas in Reaper-induced Shepard's Dream Theory is twofold. Internal, which coincides with IT interpretation (seen by Shepard as part of reality), and external (a hint from Shepard's consciousness) that what he is experiencing is not real but an attempt by the Reapers to persuade him to do what they want (indoctrinate), to inject behavioral patterns by showing him the outcomes of fictional situations that are plausible (can happen in Shepard's reality). It could also be so that after he's awake he won't be able to completely distinguish reality from dream. Basically, there is a layer of indirection between the player and Shepard's dream which is S's reality (that we do not know yet because BioWare showed us the  dream only).

I believe she said the pattern was:

1st playthrough - Thessia -> Cronos
2nd playthrough - Rannoch -> Thessia
3rd playthrough - Tuchanka -> Rannoch

That may or may not be it, but I do remember it went in reverse chronological order. 

[Turbo_J]

Rifneno wrote...

Turbo_J wrote...

I did. Jacob's woman Brin, is Indoctrinated. You can see it in her datapad message. I'll see if someone has a video of that area and report back.

Oh snap.  Serves that bastard right.

I overstepped. She is in the process of being indoctrinated.

Personal Log: Brynn Cole



With Jacob's help, we have managed to ascertain that several of our
colleagues were, in fact, killed. "Contracts terminated" is what
Cerberus called it. Makeda, Scott, Daniel, Chun Hei, Anikka... and so
many others I didn't even know about. All of them gone, disappeared
without a trace. Just like that.



We should have left sooner. I don't know why we waited so long. I can't
remember what seemed so important that we had to stay just one more
day... What was I thinking?

[HellishFiend]

TJBartlemus wrote...

The beam as an indoctrination device has some weight to it. There is no doubt that it affects it's surroundings because it affects the rockets. If the rockets are real then the beam affects it physically. If the rockets aren't then I feel it's your mind warning you that the beam affects it's surroundings. Also the beam IS reaper technology. And so far all working Reaper technology has been proven to indoctrinate. So the scale of the object must also affect the amount of indoctrination and distance.

Right now I'm currently leaning towards neither of those Destroyers actually being... destroyed. They're both taken down with weapons that shouldnt exist, and they go down far too easily. And whats with that "Hit it with everything you've got!" bit to finish off the Destroyer guarding the beam? Didnt they just try hitting it with everything they had and got vaporized for the insolence? Their attacks merely bounced off. And yet because Shepard barks into his omnitool, suddenly a massive barrage of rockets and explosions come out of nowhere to take it down? 

If that scene was real, that truly is Bioware being lazy, IMO. 

Modifié par HellishFiend, 17 juin 2012 - 12:57 .

[ZerebusPrime]

Rifneno wrote...

Turbo_J wrote...

I did. Jacob's woman Brin, is Indoctrinated. You can see it in her datapad message. I'll see if someone has a video of that area and report back.

Oh snap.  Serves that bastard right.

I have theorized that she was using some sort of mind control on Jacob to turn him into her protector.  Those Cerberus scientists that Jacob was protecting were a pretty evil bunch in their own right.

[paxxton]

HellishFiend wrote...

paxxton wrote...

I know about Aequitas issue in ME3. The number of playthroughs' influence is news to me though. Nevertheless, the meaning of Aequitas in Reaper-induced Shepard's Dream Theory is twofold. Internal, which coincides with IT interpretation (seen by Shepard as part of reality), and external (a hint from Shepard's consciousness) that what he is experiencing is not real but an attempt by the Reapers to persuade him to do what they want (indoctrinate), to inject behavioral patterns by showing him the outcomes of fictional situations that are plausible (can happen in Shepard's reality). It could also be so that after he's awake he won't be able to completely distinguish reality from dream. Basically, there is a layer of indirection between the player and Shepard's dream which is S's reality (that we do not know yet because BioWare showed us the  dream only).

I believe she said the pattern was:

1st playthrough - Thessia -> Cronos
2nd playthrough - Rannoch -> Thessia
3rd playthrough - Tuchanka -> Rannoch

That may or may not be it, but I do remember it went in reverse chronological order. 

Any thoughts on the Reaper-induced Shepard's Dream Theory (RSDT)?