55528 réponses à ce sujet

[MegumiAzusa]

RavenEyry wrote...

Nauks wrote...
And Bioware claims the ending was meticulously pieced together etc, it's just hard to shake that they may have actually intended for him to look at TIM but simply failed, given how many times this has happened earlier in the game, eyelines not matching up and so on.
I still believe this is a strong clue (and probably intentional), it's just unfortunate that we can't use the rest of the game as an easy comparison.

As discussed earlier, incorrect eyelines are due to the character being told to look at the wrong pawn. Since Shepard was last seen to TIM's right, to get Anderson to look in thet direction they must have deliberately moved Shep or put in another pawn.

I think it is exactly what they wanted to do and it's not incorrect.

[BatmanTurian]

FFZero wrote...


The more I look at the ending the more the indoc theory, or at least the whole thing being a dream/hallucination, rings true.

As a film maker to make something feel and appear surreal isn’t something that can be done by accident, there is a fine line between making something surreal and making something that just makes zero sense at all. Despite how bad the ending is in terms of logic and such it does make a sense from a narrative pov, it still follows a structure, just a rather odd one.

I’ve spoken about this with other film makers, some who have played ME3 and others who haven’t even heard of it, showed them the ending and they all come to the same conclusion, it’s got to be a dream of some sort, it's far too surreal to have not been done on purpose.

It's nice to know there are film makers that agree with us. Film and literature contain metaphors and IT is a metaphor in a video game. Players are not usually accustomed to metaphors in videogames because the space you're in is usually straight-forward. The ending of ME3 takes on a literature and Film approach rather than the COD " slow down the scene and throw a knife in a guy's eye" approach that players might be used to in an ending, I.E. the ending is what is shown in front of you and not to be analyzed in a deep way.

[MegumiAzusa]

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

paxxton wrote...

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

Oh you replied, well to bad you are dead wrong on several accounts.

Yes, I did reply. We'll see about that.

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...
1: The huskification process as shown through a vid on Sanctuary is near instanttenous. We see a green cloud (the nanintes i presume) envelop a civilian and moments later the civilian is  husk, that is fact.

You can clearly see that there is an interrupt where the camera shows Shepard's face. Then we see some husks. It's debatable if they are the people we saw earlier. As to the green color, that's room lighting (it's a fast answer! I have to think about that).
 

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...
2: As I have mentioned multiple times, the nanites that create husks do not control them, they are only used for the conversion process. How can we know that, well look at the codex entry for a husk: 
*snip*

Reapers communicate with nanides and through them control the husks (as by the log on Sanctuary). MegumiAzusa showed the evidence. The husk codex entry hasn't been updated since ME1.

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...
Where in sanctuary do they say Indoctrination include nanites? Direct quote please.

Huskification is the decay mentioned in the codex entry on indoctrination.

POST IN THE UNIT THREAD!!!!

Actually, I believe the decay is something closer to what happens to the Salarians on Virmire.  Remember when you find the Salarians in the cell and they're so indoctrinated that they've just become a bunch of blubbering idiots?  Yeah, that's the decay, not the huskification process.

Exactly, Indoctrination leads to mental degeneration, not the subject becoming a husk.

And to back that one up, here is the Indoctrination codex, or rather the important parts:

""Indoctrination" is an insidious means of
corrupting organic minds, "reprogramming" the brain through physical and
psychological conditioning using electromagnetic fields, infrasonic and
ultrasonic noise, and other subliminal methods. The Reaper's resulting
control over the limbic system leaves the victim highly susceptible to
its suggestions."

"Long-term physical effects of the manipulation are
unsustainable, Higher mental functioning decays, ultimately leaving the
victim a gibbering animal. Rapid indoctrination is possible, but causes
this decay in days or weeks. Slow, patient indoctrination allows the
thrall to last for months or years."

Nothing on Indoctrination here, but it is clear the side effects of Indoctrination is purely mind affecting from this entry. Not a single bit on the subject becoming a husk.

But also Paxxton:

If you dont want replies or discussion on your Nanite theory anywhere but your own thread then dont post about it here. Direct people to the thread instead of answering.

I can say right now that i probably wont enter your thread as it is allready clear our opinions are clashing and I have already said my fill, no need to take it to another thread. But as long as you post it in this thread I will answer it here. 

But for the sake of this thread we should probably just end it here, okay?

Have you ever read one of the comics? Also the huskification process is only a necessity. Fast indoctrination dumbs down the victim and because of that huskifies it to still make it viable. Slow indoctrination at first needs no implants as the victim can still function on its own. Husks are mindless as they don't function on their own anymore.
Mordin in ME2 gives a good short version of it: always if the victim looses something, it's replaced by Reaper tech.

Modifié par MegumiAzusa, 17 mai 2012 - 08:25 .

[llbountyhunter]

llbountyhunter wrote...

found this old interview with Casey.....




Q: So how do you stop something unstoppably massive?[/b]
Casey Hudson: That's something we reveal over time. You see humans being harvested and processed to become fuel for the way Reapers reproduce. This is their reproductive cycle and we're just a part of it. We're nothing to them.

http://www.computera...ough-decisions/ 

nobody else finds this interesting? 

[paxxton]

llbountyhunter wrote...

llbountyhunter wrote...

found this old interview with Casey.....




Q: So how do you stop something unstoppably massive?[/b]
Casey Hudson: That's something we reveal over time. You see humans being harvested and processed to become fuel for the way Reapers reproduce. This is their reproductive cycle and we're just a part of it. We're nothing to them.

http://www.computera...ough-decisions/ 

nobody else finds this interesting? 

What do you mean?

[MegumiAzusa]

llbountyhunter wrote...

llbountyhunter wrote...

found this old interview with Casey.....




Q: So how do you stop something unstoppably massive?[/b]
Casey Hudson: That's something we reveal over time. You see humans being harvested and processed to become fuel for the way Reapers reproduce. This is their reproductive cycle and we're just a part of it. We're nothing to them.

http://www.computera...ough-decisions/ 

nobody else finds this interesting? 

Isn't "in the first 20-30 minutes" enough for "over time"?
Also it looks like that interview was given when the story was a bit different.

Modifié par MegumiAzusa, 17 mai 2012 - 08:31 .

[MaximizedAction]

llbountyhunter wrote...

llbountyhunter wrote...

found this old interview with Casey.....




Q: So how do you stop something unstoppably massive?[/b]
Casey Hudson: That's something we reveal over time. You see humans being harvested and processed to become fuel for the way Reapers reproduce. This is their reproductive cycle and we're just a part of it. We're nothing to them.

http://www.computera...ough-decisions/ 

nobody else finds this interesting? 

Sorry, must've blanked out reading it.

Of course this is very interesting. Especially, this interview is from about the same time as the infamous Jesse Houston interview at Comic Con.

This quote boosts the hope in the Child being a big, fat phony!

[MegumiAzusa]

MaximizedAction wrote...

llbountyhunter wrote...

llbountyhunter wrote...

found this old interview with Casey.....




Q: So how do you stop something unstoppably massive?[/b]
Casey Hudson: That's something we reveal over time. You see humans being harvested and processed to become fuel for the way Reapers reproduce. This is their reproductive cycle and we're just a part of it. We're nothing to them.

http://www.computera...ough-decisions/ 

nobody else finds this interesting? 

Sorry, must've blanked out reading it.

Of course this is very interesting. Especially, this interview is from about the same time as the infamous Jesse Houston interview at Comic Con.

This quote boosts the hope in the Child being a big, fat phony!

What interview are you referring to?

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

MegumiAzusa wrote...

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

paxxton wrote...

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

Oh you replied, well to bad you are dead wrong on several accounts.

Yes, I did reply. We'll see about that.

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...
1: The huskification process as shown through a vid on Sanctuary is near instanttenous. We see a green cloud (the nanintes i presume) envelop a civilian and moments later the civilian is  husk, that is fact.

You can clearly see that there is an interrupt where the camera shows Shepard's face. Then we see some husks. It's debatable if they are the people we saw earlier. As to the green color, that's room lighting (it's a fast answer! I have to think about that).
 

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...
2: As I have mentioned multiple times, the nanites that create husks do not control them, they are only used for the conversion process. How can we know that, well look at the codex entry for a husk: 
*snip*

Reapers communicate with nanides and through them control the husks (as by the log on Sanctuary). MegumiAzusa showed the evidence. The husk codex entry hasn't been updated since ME1.

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...
Where in sanctuary do they say Indoctrination include nanites? Direct quote please.

Huskification is the decay mentioned in the codex entry on indoctrination.

POST IN THE UNIT THREAD!!!!

Actually, I believe the decay is something closer to what happens to the Salarians on Virmire.  Remember when you find the Salarians in the cell and they're so indoctrinated that they've just become a bunch of blubbering idiots?  Yeah, that's the decay, not the huskification process.

Exactly, Indoctrination leads to mental degeneration, not the subject becoming a husk.

And to back that one up, here is the Indoctrination codex, or rather the important parts:

""Indoctrination" is an insidious means of
corrupting organic minds, "reprogramming" the brain through physical and
psychological conditioning using electromagnetic fields, infrasonic and
ultrasonic noise, and other subliminal methods. The Reaper's resulting
control over the limbic system leaves the victim highly susceptible to
its suggestions."

"Long-term physical effects of the manipulation are
unsustainable, Higher mental functioning decays, ultimately leaving the
victim a gibbering animal. Rapid indoctrination is possible, but causes
this decay in days or weeks. Slow, patient indoctrination allows the
thrall to last for months or years."

Nothing on Indoctrination here, but it is clear the side effects of Indoctrination is purely mind affecting from this entry. Not a single bit on the subject becoming a husk.

But also Paxxton:

If you dont want replies or discussion on your Nanite theory anywhere but your own thread then dont post about it here. Direct people to the thread instead of answering.

I can say right now that i probably wont enter your thread as it is allready clear our opinions are clashing and I have already said my fill, no need to take it to another thread. But as long as you post it in this thread I will answer it here. 

But for the sake of this thread we should probably just end it here, okay?

Have you ever read one of the comics? Also the huskification process is only a necessity. Fast indoctrination dumbs down the victim and because of that huskifies it to still make it viable. Slow indoctrination at first needs no implants as the victim can still function on its own. Husks are mindless as they don't function on their own anymore.
Mordin in ME2 gives a good short version of it: always if the victim looses something, it's replaced by Reaper tech.

Off course, but that is still not the Indoctrination turning a person into a husk. It is simply the natural evolution of the Reapers turning the Indoctrinated victim into a husk once his mind no longer is useful.

The direct process of turning a person into a husk has in all cases we have seen been pretty fast and happened by the victim quickly havings its internal organs replaced with reaper tech.

Indoctrination and huskification are two very different processes, especially since Indoctrination from everything we know does not even need you to touch a Reaper artifact to succumb...and even if you had to I highly doubt every piece of a Reaper or Artifact is covered in nanites without anyone having noticed it up till then...

[TSA_383]

Nauks wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

Nauks wrote...

Sure,
it may be a coincidence about the white-out, but it's weird how time seems to slow down instead of seeing Shepard get hit by the beam outright, then waking up, the camera coming in the same way as it does in the first dream, it's this whole sequence really that is suspect, the fact that the white-out only appears in certain areas is just adage.

Actually not quite, the whiteout also happens two times in the end for <0.5s each
-image snip-

That's neither here nor there, given the above discussion.

Bill Casey wrote...

They're controlling *looks at camera* You!

Mm, there is certainly something very deliberate in this.

And Bioware claims the ending was meticulously pieced together etc, it's just hard to shake that they may have actually intended for him to look at TIM but simply failed, given how many times this has happened earlier in the game, eyelines not matching up and so on.
I still believe this is a strong clue (and probably intentional), it's just unfortunate that we can't use the rest of the game as an easy comparison.

The end files contain various point definitions, so some of the time the characters will definitely look at those.

Unfortunately, I've had little luck extracting the relevant .pcc - for some reason using Gibbed's ME3 package extracter it makes everything a .bin file that I can't open

And now for some interesting stuff from the game files (yaaaay)

-The citadel is always referred to as the "oculon" which is the original name that was used for it waaaay back in the mystical land of the past that was 2006.

There's a wierd texture cube I'd love to find too:

Looks almost like a bloody handprint... freaked me out for a bit

[MaximizedAction]

MegumiAzusa wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...

llbountyhunter wrote...

llbountyhunter wrote...

found this old interview with Casey.....




Q: So how do you stop something unstoppably massive?[/b]
Casey Hudson: That's something we reveal over time. You see humans being harvested and processed to become fuel for the way Reapers reproduce. This is their reproductive cycle and we're just a part of it. We're nothing to them.

http://www.computera...ough-decisions/ 

nobody else finds this interesting? 

Sorry, must've blanked out reading it.

Of course this is very interesting. Especially, this interview is from about the same time as the infamous Jesse Houston interview at Comic Con.

This quote boosts the hope in the Child being a big, fat phony!

What interview are you referring to?

Ah, the one where he's talking randomly about DLC and how he "can('t) say that end of the game will be on the disc".

[Parabolee77]

llbountyhunter wrote...

llbountyhunter wrote...

found this old interview with Casey.....




Q: So how do you stop something unstoppably massive?[/b]
Casey Hudson: That's something we reveal over time. You see humans being harvested and processed to become fuel for the way Reapers reproduce. This is their reproductive cycle and we're just a part of it. We're nothing to them.

http://www.computera...ough-decisions/ 

nobody else finds this interesting? 

I found it VERY interesting. I immediately added it to my guide!

I added a lot today in fact.

[DJBare]

MegumiAzusa wrote...

llbountyhunter wrote...

llbountyhunter wrote...

found this old interview with Casey.....




Q: So how do you stop something unstoppably massive?[/b]
Casey Hudson: That's something we reveal over time. You see humans being harvested and processed to become fuel for the way Reapers reproduce. This is their reproductive cycle and we're just a part of it. We're nothing to them.

http://www.computera...ough-decisions/ 

nobody else finds this interesting? 

Isn't "in the first 20-30 minutes" enough for "over time"?
Also it looks like that interview was given when the story was a bit different.

The way things played out certainly became different
According to Final Hours app this is a delete scene.

But also according to the Final hours app, this was supposed to be the final

Someone had a change of heart, and I'm guessing it's because it would have seemed odd if Garrus had stepped out of the Normandy at the end.

[MaximizedAction]

DJBare wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

llbountyhunter wrote...

llbountyhunter wrote...

found this old interview with Casey.....




Q: So how do you stop something unstoppably massive?[/b]
Casey Hudson: That's something we reveal over time. You see humans being harvested and processed to become fuel for the way Reapers reproduce. This is their reproductive cycle and we're just a part of it. We're nothing to them.

http://www.computera...ough-decisions/ 

nobody else finds this interesting? 

Isn't "in the first 20-30 minutes" enough for "over time"?
Also it looks like that interview was given when the story was a bit different.

The way things played out certainly became different
According to Final Hours app this is a delete scene.

But also according to the Final hours app, this was supposed to be the final

Someone had a change of heart, and I'm guessing it's because it would have seemed odd if Garrus had stepped out of the Normandy at the end.

And we wouldn't want that at the ending, now would we?

But yeah, it something like that would've removed the ambiguity.

Modifié par MaximizedAction, 17 mai 2012 - 08:47 .

[Parabolee77]

DJBare wrote...
The way things played out certainly became different
According to Final Hours app this is a delete scene.

But also according to the Final hours app, this was supposed to be the final

Someone had a change of heart, and I'm guessing it's because it would have seemed odd if Garrus had stepped out of the Normandy at the end.

I thought this too. But apparently this scene is very similar to the actual final scenes IF your EMS is low enough. I have yet to be able to test this myself though.

[paxxton]

Parabolee77 wrote...

I added a lot today in fact.

What's the link?

Modifié par paxxton, 17 mai 2012 - 08:50 .

[Parabolee77]

paxxton wrote...

Parabolee77 wrote...

I added a lot today in fact.

Really? What's the link?

It's in my sig.

http://masseffectind...on.blogspot.com

EDIT: Why do my links never work the first time I post them on this stupid board?! 

Modifié par Parabolee77, 17 mai 2012 - 08:54 .

[RealStyli]

paxxton wrote...

Parabolee77 wrote...

I added a lot today in fact.

What's the link?

Check Parabolee77's sig... Just click on the banner. I skimmed it. Looks great. I've added it to my reading list for bedtime. 

[NoSpin]

DJBare wrote...


The way things played out certainly became different
According to Final Hours app this is a delete scene.

But also according to the Final hours app, this was supposed to be the final

Someone had a change of heart, and I'm guessing it's because it would have seemed odd if Garrus had stepped out of the Normandy at the end.

Very nice. Somebody at Bioware thought that made things a little too obvious.

[RavenEyry]

Parabolee77 wrote...

I thought this too. But apparently this scene is very similar to the actual final scenes IF your EMS is low enough. I have yet to be able to test this myself though.

Instead of seeing them vaporised you just see there bodies amongst the random soldiers post-deathray.

@paxxton, it's in their sig.

[paxxton]

Parabolee77 wrote...

paxxton wrote...

Parabolee77 wrote...

I added a lot today in fact.

Really? What's the link?

It's in my sig.

http://masseffectind...on.blogspot.com

EDIT: Why do my links never work the first time I post them on this stupid board?! 

Ah, yes.  I have a very interesting theory too.

The links become hyperlinks only if you put them in an extended reply form.

Modifié par paxxton, 17 mai 2012 - 08:56 .

[Parabolee77]

RavenEyry wrote...

Parabolee77 wrote...

I thought this too. But apparently this scene is very similar to the actual final scenes IF your EMS is low enough. I have yet to be able to test this myself though.

Instead of seeing them vaporised you just see there bodies amongst the random soldiers post-deathray.

@paxxton, it's in their sig.

As I said, I'm pretty sure you can see their bodies if your EMS is low enough. I have seen several people say this is the case. But I have not verified.

With really low EMS you only see Joker step off the Normandy.

[MegumiAzusa]

DJBare wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

llbountyhunter wrote...

llbountyhunter wrote...

found this old interview with Casey.....




Q: So how do you stop something unstoppably massive?[/b]
Casey Hudson: That's something we reveal over time. You see humans being harvested and processed to become fuel for the way Reapers reproduce. This is their reproductive cycle and we're just a part of it. We're nothing to them.

http://www.computera...ough-decisions/ 

nobody else finds this interesting? 

Isn't "in the first 20-30 minutes" enough for "over time"?
Also it looks like that interview was given when the story was a bit different.

The way things played out certainly became different
According to Final Hours app this is a delete scene.

But also according to the Final hours app, this was supposed to be the final

Someone had a change of heart, and I'm guessing it's because it would have seemed odd if Garrus had stepped out of the Normandy at the end.

If I remember correctly if you've got low ems (where also no one exits the Normandy) instead of seeing the two alliance soldiers left and right you can see the dead squadmates there.

[paxxton]

Parabolee77 wrote...

RavenEyry wrote...

Parabolee77 wrote...

I thought this too. But apparently this scene is very similar to the actual final scenes IF your EMS is low enough. I have yet to be able to test this myself though.

Instead of seeing them vaporised you just see there bodies amongst the random soldiers post-deathray.

@paxxton, it's in their sig.

As I said, I'm pretty sure you can see their bodies if your EMS is low enough. I have seen several people say this is the case. But I have not verified.

With really low EMS you only see Joker step off the Normandy.

You can see no one if you have EMS below 2000.

[paxxton]

OK.

Modifié par paxxton, 17 mai 2012 - 09:01 .