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[HellishFiend]

Ctoagu wrote...

Can anyone tell me if their own Shepard starts hyperventilating for the rest of the game once you get to Sanctuary? I never noticed that until now.

We've been trying to find a pattern for that but havent been able to. It's possibly just a glitch. 

[Andromidius]

SubAstris wrote...

paxxton wrote...

His presence is only inferred. It may be an incorrect assumption and his presence can be disproved or proved in the EC.

Completely true, but you have to truthfully ask yourself why this was put in by BW, and if indeed it is incorrect, why isn't there a hint of it being incorrect shown in the game at all

Edit: I misread what you said.  But I'll leave what I said anyway.  The evidence for the child never existing are still in-game evidences, but they'll take time to detail.

What do you mean?  There's in-game proof of Starbinger either being incorrect or blantantly lying.

1/ The created will always destroy the creators.  Even if you ignore the Geth and Quarians (its shakey evidence), the fact the Reapers haven't turned on the Catalyst yet disproves this notion.  Not to mention the Hanar never turned against the Enkindlers (Protheans), and infact some are so obedient to them that they'll turn to the Reapers (the masters of their masters) without hesitation.  So this is either a blatant lie, and/or the Catalyst didn't create the Reapers (another lie).

2/ Shepard will die if he picks Destroy.  Breath scene debunks this.

3/ No organic has made it to that part of the Citadel.  Erm, considering its on the outside on a very visible and well-used part of the station, and has the same text writing as other parts of the station...  Yeah, you're lying so badly it hurts, Starbinger.

4/ Implying Shepard is able to control the Reapers, even though its been hammered into us all trilogy that they can't be controled because anyone who gets close to them ends up being controlled by them.

Four cases of either lies or ignorance by Starbinger, right off the bat.  All in-game evidence.

Modifié par Andromidius, 17 juin 2012 - 09:23 .

[Nightingale]

HellishFiend wrote...

Looking for a little creative help with my video, guys:

When thinking about the Indoctrination Theory, what are the most significant things that pop into your head? What stands out the most? As in events, cutscenes, dialog, etc. Something you see in the game that just speaks "Indoctrination!" to you personally.

I'm terribly late for this, but the first thing that comes to mind (aside from the weirdness of everything that happens once you're hit by Harbinger, as this will always be my main reason for even considering IT) is the dreams. The "oily shadows," the whispers, the kid burning - along with Shepard when she finally reaches him in the last one...It all just screams Indoctrination to me. Even more so now, actually, since I saw that video of the creepy sound effects.

[paxxton]

SubAstris wrote...

paxxton wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

paxxton wrote...

His presence is only inferred. It may be an incorrect assumption and his presence can be disproved or proved in the EC.

Completely true, but you have to truthfully ask yourself why this was put in by BW, and if indeed it is incorrect, why isn't there a hint of it being incorrect shown in the game at all

It was put there to trick people into believing that Starchild was in fact that master so he had the power to stop the cycle. And that he gave you the choice. Basically, to make the player succumb to indoctrination more easily.

There's no hint because the game isn't over yet (the EC).

Put there by whom exactly? 

But you would expect a hint if the data was faulty in the actual game ending, especially since it could add more evidence to the belief that the ending was false.

I meant that BioWare decided that Vendetta would say that.

Such a direct and obvious hint that the Starchild is lying would spoil the whole Indoctrination. The point is that the player doesn't know exactly what is really happening. The choice is made between what he fought for since ME1 (destruction of the Reapers) or a compromise/different solution (Synthesis/control of the Reapers). Probably the correct choice as seen by the designers of ME3 is Destroy and in the EC Shepard will wake up free of indoctrination.

[nightcobra]

DrTsoni wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

Looking for a little creative help with my video, guys:

When thinking about the Indoctrination Theory, what are the most significant things that pop into your head? What stands out the most? As in events, cutscenes, dialog, etc. Something you see in the game that just speaks "Indoctrination!" to you personally.

I'm terribly late for this, but the first thing that comes to mind (aside from the weirdness of everything that happens once you're hit by Harbinger, as this will always be my main reason for even considering IT) is the dreams. The "oily shadows," the whispers, the kid burning - along with Shepard when she finally reaches him in the last one...It all just screams Indoctrination to me. Even more so now, actually, since I saw that video of the creepy sound effects.

those sounds i showed you will haunt you forever and ever...

mwahahaha:devil:

[HellishFiend]

DrTsoni wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

Looking for a little creative help with my video, guys:

When thinking about the Indoctrination Theory, what are the most significant things that pop into your head? What stands out the most? As in events, cutscenes, dialog, etc. Something you see in the game that just speaks "Indoctrination!" to you personally.

I'm terribly late for this, but the first thing that comes to mind (aside from the weirdness of everything that happens once you're hit by Harbinger, as this will always be my main reason for even considering IT) is the dreams. The "oily shadows," the whispers, the kid burning - along with Shepard when she finally reaches him in the last one...It all just screams Indoctrination to me. Even more so now, actually, since I saw that video of the creepy sound effects.

Not late at all.  Still working on the infrasound video, and anything that doesnt make it into this one can go into one of my future videos. Thanks!

[demersel]

Hi guys! Didn't read the whole thread (it's too huge by now), but i really like the IT, so i would like to ask - anything new recently?

And I would like to contribute also. Don't know if it was pointed out before, but.... you know how virtually everyone complained about the amount of auto dialog in ME3?
Well, think about it - what is auto dialog? A diminished sense of control over shepards actions. This was a major and concious design decision of the developers.
Even in ME3 itself, when Liara is talkins to her father - she tells her what it was like for Bonezia being indoctrinated - in the moments when Bonezia maneged to break free she told her that being indoctrinated is like beating on a plate glass while watching yourself do things.... Isn't it exactly what autodialog feels like on a smaller scale, and what everyone complained about? It gets worse closer to the end, culminating in the catalyst onesided conversation...

Think about it, if you wanted to introduce indoctrination of the main character as a major theme how would you do it through gameplay?

Modifié par demersel, 17 juin 2012 - 09:35 .

[estebanus]

HellishFiend wrote...

Ctoagu wrote...

Can anyone tell me if their own Shepard starts hyperventilating for the rest of the game once you get to Sanctuary? I never noticed that until now.

We've been trying to find a pattern for that but havent been able to. It's possibly just a glitch. 

It is. That happened to my Shep right after Palaven. I think it has something to do with sprinting, using a power, and then getting hit by an enemy while trying to use that power while sprinting...

With another Shep, that happened right after the Udina coup.

[paxxton]

estebanus wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

Ctoagu wrote...

Can anyone tell me if their own Shepard starts hyperventilating for the rest of the game once you get to Sanctuary? I never noticed that until now.

We've been trying to find a pattern for that but havent been able to. It's possibly just a glitch. 

It is. That happened to my Shep right after Palaven. I think it has something to do with sprinting, using a power, and then getting hit by an enemy while trying to use that power while sprinting...

With another Shep, that happened right after the Udina coup.

Could Shepard be inhaling nanides being released by either Reapers or Cerberus throughout the game?

Modifié par paxxton, 17 juin 2012 - 09:41 .

[paxxton]

demersel wrote...

Hi guys! Didn't read the whole thread (it's too huge by now), but i really like the IT, so i would like to ask - anything new recently?

And I would like to contribute also. Don't know if it was pointed out before, but.... you know how virtually everyone complained about the amount of auto dialog in ME3?
Well, think about it - what is auto dialog? A diminished sense of control over shepards actions. This was a major and concious design decision of the developers.
Even in ME3 itself, when Liara is talkins to her father - she tells her what it was like for Bonezia being indoctrinated - in the moments when Bonezia maneged to break free she told her that being indoctrinated is like beating on a plate glass while watching yourself do things.... Isn't it exactly what autodialog feels like on a smaller scale, and what everyone complained about? It gets worse closer to the end, culminating in the catalyst onesided conversation...

Think about it, if you wanted to introduce indoctrination of the main character as a major theme how would you do it through gameplay?

Very elegant interpretation. Makes a lot of sense.

[estebanus]

paxxton wrote...

estebanus wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

Ctoagu wrote...

Can anyone tell me if their own Shepard starts hyperventilating for the rest of the game once you get to Sanctuary? I never noticed that until now.

We've been trying to find a pattern for that but havent been able to. It's possibly just a glitch. 

It is. That happened to my Shep right after Palaven. I think it has something to do with sprinting, using a power, and then getting hit by an enemy while trying to use that power while sprinting...

With another Shep, that happened right after the Udina coup.

Could Shepard be inhaling nanides being released by either Reapers or Cerberus throughout the game?

Hahaha! Good one!

[FellishBeast]

A little off-topic, but I just wanted to add to the discussion about the Reaper's relation to the Thorian.

I just remembered that the Reapers call themselves the "Old Machines," and the Thorian calls itself the "Old Growth." More parallels?

[Drift Avalii]

I think it's the Geth who refer to the Reapers as 'old machines' :-)

[demersel]

I also can explain why destroy is the only option with low EMS, and why you don't get a breath scene i.e. wake up in destroy with low EMS.

[SubAstris]

paxxton wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

paxxton wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

paxxton wrote...

His presence is only inferred. It may be an incorrect assumption and his presence can be disproved or proved in the EC.

Completely true, but you have to truthfully ask yourself why this was put in by BW, and if indeed it is incorrect, why isn't there a hint of it being incorrect shown in the game at all

It was put there to trick people into believing that Starchild was in fact that master so he had the power to stop the cycle. And that he gave you the choice. Basically, to make the player succumb to indoctrination more easily.

There's no hint because the game isn't over yet (the EC).

Put there by whom exactly? 

But you would expect a hint if the data was faulty in the actual game ending, especially since it could add more evidence to the belief that the ending was false.

I meant that BioWare decided that Vendetta would say that.

Such a direct and obvious hint that the Starchild is lying would spoil the whole Indoctrination. The point is that the player doesn't know exactly what is really happening. The choice is made between what he fought for since ME1 (destruction of the Reapers) or a compromise/different solution (Synthesis/control of the Reapers). Probably the correct choice as seen by the designers of ME3 is Destroy and in the EC Shepard will wake up free of indoctrination.

That is where we disagree. There is difference between blurring the lines and leaving the audience in the dark, which is exactly what happened with the game, and that cannot be anything other than bad storyteller. But either it shows up BW as bad writers

[FellishBeast]

Drift Avalii wrote...

I think it's the Geth who refer to the Reapers as 'old machines' :-)

The point remains. It's the most accurate name we have for them, since they are loosely based upon Lovecraft's "Old Ones."

[Humakt83]

Does the sign "No step" and "T78" mean anything? They are on the Normandy.

[demersel]

FellishBeast wrote...

A little off-topic, but I just wanted to add to the discussion about the Reaper's relation to the Thorian.

I just remembered that the Reapers call themselves the "Old Machines," and the Thorian calls itself the "Old Growth." More parallels?

Actually yes! It's a very interesting thought.

[demersel]

Humakt83 wrote...

Does the sign "No step" and "T78" mean anything? They are on the Normandy.

where on the normandy?

[FellishBeast]

Humakt83 wrote...

Does the sign "No step" and "T78" mean anything? They are on the Normandy.

I'm gonna say "no step" means "do not step here."

T78 is probably tech jargen.

[Eryri]

HellishFiend wrote...

DrTsoni wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

Looking for a little creative help with my video, guys:

When thinking about the Indoctrination Theory, what are the most significant things that pop into your head? What stands out the most? As in events, cutscenes, dialog, etc. Something you see in the game that just speaks "Indoctrination!" to you personally.

I'm terribly late for this, but the first thing that comes to mind (aside from the weirdness of everything that happens once you're hit by Harbinger, as this will always be my main reason for even considering IT) is the dreams. The "oily shadows," the whispers, the kid burning - along with Shepard when she finally reaches him in the last one...It all just screams Indoctrination to me. Even more so now, actually, since I saw that video of the creepy sound effects.

Not late at all.  Still working on the infrasound video, and anything that doesnt make it into this one can go into one of my future videos. Thanks!

I'm sure you've considered this already, but I've just been replaying the opening scene, and the warning sign by the vent where the child hides really sticks out.

I don't remember ever seeing a sign like it in ME, and it's very odd the way the lightning bolt strikes the very top of that stylised face, almost like it's warning of a danger to the mind. In real life, electricity warning signs usually show a bolt striking a whole body, at least here in the UK.

Of course if that is a 4th wall breaking clue from Bioware, it would require that the child was fake even back in Vancouver, which isn't everybody's interpretation.

Modifié par Eryri, 17 juin 2012 - 09:58 .

[munnellyladt]

Did anyone ever notice that when you talk to the starkid he refers to the crucible as the"crucible".What i mean is how does he know its called that as it was only named the crucible by the alliance.
Strange isn't it?

[Andromidius]

munnellyladt wrote...

Did anyone ever notice that when you talk to the starkid he refers to the crucible as the"crucible".What i mean is how does he know its called that as it was only named the crucible by the alliance.
Strange isn't it?

Another good point.  At the very least it means its either monitoring encrypted Alliance transmissions.

Or its reading Shepard's mind.

Or its all in Shepard's mind.

Take your pick.

[Dwailing]

Eryri wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

DrTsoni wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

Looking for a little creative help with my video, guys:

When thinking about the Indoctrination Theory, what are the most significant things that pop into your head? What stands out the most? As in events, cutscenes, dialog, etc. Something you see in the game that just speaks "Indoctrination!" to you personally.

I'm terribly late for this, but the first thing that comes to mind (aside from the weirdness of everything that happens once you're hit by Harbinger, as this will always be my main reason for even considering IT) is the dreams. The "oily shadows," the whispers, the kid burning - along with Shepard when she finally reaches him in the last one...It all just screams Indoctrination to me. Even more so now, actually, since I saw that video of the creepy sound effects.

Not late at all.  Still working on the infrasound video, and anything that doesnt make it into this one can go into one of my future videos. Thanks!

I'm sure you've considered this already, but I've just been replaying the opening scene, and the warning sign by the vent where the child hides really sticks out.

I don't remember ever seeing a sign like it in ME, and it's very odd the way the lightning bolt strikes the very top of that stylised face. In real life, electricity warning signs usually show a bolt striking a whole body, at least here in the UK.

Of course if that is a 4th wall breaking clue from Bioware, it would require that the child was fake even back in Vancouver, which isn't everybody's interpretation.

The way I see it, there are two ways the kid's appearances in Vancouver can be interpreted.  Either he is fake from the very beginning, and when you see him on the roof, he's just a hallucination; or he was real on the rooftop, but he was blown up when the Reapers came.  I just can't believe that his appearances in the vent and by the shuttle were real.  There's no way a six or seven year old kid could get from the rooftop, to the building with the vent (A building with a locked door, no less.), then to the shuttle pad, in all of, what, fifteen to twenty minutes tops?

[noobcannon]