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Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark II!


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#2101
Parabolee77

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paxxton wrote...

Parabolee77 wrote...

paxxton wrote...

Parabolee77 wrote...

I added a lot today in fact.

Really? What's the link?


It's in my sig.

http://masseffectind...on.blogspot.com

EDIT: Why do my links never work the first time I post them on this stupid board?! 

Ah, yes. Posted Image I have a very interesting theory too.

The links become hyperlinks only if you put them in an extended reply form.


I'm putting them in the extended reply form, and adding the hyperlink myself! Maybe I should just let it do it automatically?

#2102
paxxton

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In order to create a hyperlink you must type it and then press space.

Alternatively, you can paste a hyperlink. Posted Image

Modifié par paxxton, 17 mai 2012 - 09:13 .


#2103
MaximizedAction

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MegumiAzusa wrote...

DJBare wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

llbountyhunter wrote...

llbountyhunter wrote...

found this old interview with Casey.....




Q: So how do you stop something unstoppably massive?
[/b]
Casey Hudson: That's something we reveal over time. You see humans being harvested and processed to become fuel for the way Reapers reproduce. This is their reproductive cycle and we're just a part of it. We're nothing to them.

http://www.computera...ough-decisions/ 


nobody else finds this interesting? :(

Isn't "in the first 20-30 minutes" enough for "over time"? :P
Also it looks like that interview was given when the story was a bit different.

The way things played out certainly became different
According to Final Hours app this is a delete scene.
Posted Image
But also according to the Final hours app, this was supposed to be the final
Posted Image
Someone had a change of heart, and I'm guessing it's because it would have seemed odd if Garrus had stepped out of the Normandy at the end.

If I remember correctly if you've got low ems (where also no one exits the Normandy) instead of seeing the two alliance soldiers left and right you can see the dead squadmates there.


Yep.

#2104
shakey123

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Thought i post my thread in here...

Quantum Theory explanation of Indoctrination Theory (at the ending) - Why the ending went over the majoritys head!!

Oh my Gawd almighty bioware are Chemists and Physicists who are all proficient in quantum theory. The ending we see is ingenious and is science not space magicks. The proposed indoctrination theory is further strengthened by this spin state theory in the example at hand. Please try to bare with me as I dumb it down for you, however it you dont understand it it is not your fault as it is actually quite complicated.

The number of spin States for a Nuclear Spin I (nuclear spin quantum number) is 2I+1. In regular quantum theory I is a value determined by the number of neutrons and protons. Having solved Bioware’s equation I believe I for the catalyst end area to be determined by the number of major plot holes in the scene divided by the number of coloured endings. 

Okay having to revise my calculations due to errors found:

The first plot hole is the fact that Sheperd is alright even though just before he blacked out and was bleeding to death. We previously saw him losing fuction and blacking out, proboably due to blood loss. Since his suit is fried there is really no way for quick medical intervention so its safe to say there is no way for sheperd to get up.

The second major plot hole can be that he is exposed to space. In ME1 shepherd needed a helmet with breathing apparatus and magnetic boots to proceed on the outside of the citadel but this sheperd seems immune to the vacuum of space. This can be debated however as there could be a mass effect field or something around the area allowing a local atmosphere. If this is the case then we can simply substitute anderson's sudden appearance in front of us when he clearly said he followed us up.

Now the final plot hole is that the location of the catalyst area in relation to its position above earth which makes no sense. As detailed in another post.

 Now taking into account that there are 3 coloured endings BLUE, RED, GREEN respectively we can now determine I for biowares instance. As stated earlier on I for this case is the number of plot holes divided by the number of colouredendings so:          
             
I = (number or plot holes)/(number of colours)                          
3 / 3=1                        
I=1

I can also be found using this chart:

No.P (protons or plot holes) No.N (neutrons or nonsensicle endings) I (Quantum Spin Number)
Even                                           Even                                                                 0
Even                                           Odd                                                                  1/2
Odd                                            Even                                                                 1
Odd                                            Odd                                                                   3/2


To determine the number of spin states we simply substitute 1 into the formula 2I + 1

So 2 x 1+1= 3 We have three spin states available to us, and the quantum spin number I = 1

The spin state selection rule for our case is mI = +1 or -1

Okay we all know that reapers induce indoctrinations by utilising magnetic fields on shepherd’s brain, and this comes to a climax when he is becomes to weak to resist due to the injuries he has sustained . I will continue in laymans terms. When no magnetic field is applied all of sheperds decisions are ‘degenerate’ which we can take to be equally valid or equal in energy.

Posted Image
 i.e. all mI states have the same energy. 

But
when the reapers apply a magnetic field (Bo) through indoctrination during the final scene this lifts the degeneracy of the spin states resulting in splitting to achieve higher and lower energies of the spin states. For regular quantum theory spin state =1 we get this splitting for 3 spin states:

Posted Image

Now in biowares terms I=1 and 3 spin states we get the following dialogue tree which is actually very complicated.

Posted Image

Here is a better diagram depicting the three spin states in accordance to their orientation with the Z-axis.

Posted Image

As we increase the applied magnetic Field (Bo) we need more energy to arrange the spin state against it. Let us consider energy as sheperds will to fight the reapers. In this case the Green ending is synthesis and is not aligned with the magnetic field nor is it against it, and so it requires more energy but less energy than Red. This is seen in the way that the path is straight ahead and the colour green. Green is a colour associated with harmony and balance and is in not threatening like red but is less appealing than the calming blue. Green must also be reaper indoctrination because synthesis does not make sense at all and is not scientifically possible!!!!!! As it takes the science out of sci fi (I do not fully understand this ending maybe someone can add to this who had done a PHD).

Now to the final bravo stroke by bioware the Red ending. As we can see from my diagrams that the Red (destroy) path requires the most energy as it represents Sheperd's will fighting against the indoctrination (magnetic field) thus requiring the most energy, making it the hardest option for Sheperd to do. This is shown in the way that reapers are supposedly good and the green and blue options are the best for us.

This to some extent explains why a vast proportion of people did not understand the ending, because they did not do degree level quantum mechanics. Regardless of this the ending still has its problems and thus limitations, but so does quatum theory. 

Yay for science!!!!!

#2105
TSA_383

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I've just had a go at EQing the illusive man whispers.

There is dialogue in there - I THINK some of it is from the conversation with the slightly tragic young girl with the dead parents and that turian, him saying "Your parent's will be home soon kiddo" or something along those lines. Very hard to tell though.

There's also something that sounds hilariously like "check out her breasts" at 0:13.
Pretty sure that's not related to indoctrination, though.
Here's the crazy EQ that was needed to remove most of the noise:
Posted Image

There are one or two other seemingly obvious lines, but I don't want to put it in your head first in case I'm hearing something that's not there.

Here's the audio (damn right it's a 32-bit .wav file):
http://www.sendspace.com/file/f29yqp

#2106
llbountyhunter

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shakey123 wrote...

-snip-

Yay for science!!!!!


OMG!!! it all makes sense now!!!  

the z-axis diagram really removed any doubt on wether increasing the applied magnetic Field (Bo) magnifyed any needed energy to arrange the spin state against it. thanks for making it clear that the Green ending is synthesis and is not aligned with the magnetic field nor is it against it, and so it requires more energy but less energy than Red.  

Modifié par llbountyhunter, 17 mai 2012 - 09:26 .


#2107
DJBare

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Parabolee77 wrote...

DJBare wrote...
The way things played out certainly became different
According to Final Hours app this is a delete scene.
*snip*
But also according to the Final hours app, this was supposed to be the final
*snip*
Someone had a change of heart, and I'm guessing it's because it would have seemed odd if Garrus had stepped out of the Normandy at the end.


I thought this too. But apparently this scene is very similar to the actual final scenes IF your EMS is low enough. I have yet to be able to test this myself though.

Thanks for clearing that up, I've never gotten below 3000 EMS.

#2108
paxxton

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PEOPLE OF THE GALAXY!!!

ASHLEY WILLIAMS HAS BEEN INDOCTRINATED!!!!!!!
 
[DEFCON 1]

BREAKING NEWS!!!

WATCH AT 2:26!!!!
 
[THIS IS NOT A DRILL]

Modifié par paxxton, 17 mai 2012 - 09:39 .


#2109
MaximizedAction

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shakey123 wrote...

[..............................]

1) Bioware is founded by physicians, not physicists or chemists and Casey Hudson is not a natural scientist
2) Swinging such a scientific bat based on an assumption like I = (number or plot holes)/(number of colours) is stupid and sounds just as unnecessarily complicated as those pseudo-scientific magnetic wristbands from the 90s.

#2110
UrgedDuke

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paxxton wrote...

PEOPLE OF THE GALAXY!!!

ASHLEY WILLIAMS HAS BEEN INDOCTRINATED!!!!!!!
 
[DEFCON 1]

BREAKING NEWS!!!

WATCH AT 2:26!!!!


 
[THIS IS NOT A DRILL]


she had a carnifex :bandit:

but then again ... so did bailey :blink:

Modifié par UrgedDuke, 17 mai 2012 - 09:41 .


#2111
RavenEyry

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paxxton wrote...

PEOPLE OF THE GALAXY!!!

ASHLEY WILLIAMS HAS BEEN INDOCTRINATED!!!!!!!
 
[DEFCON 1]

BREAKING NEWS!!!

WATCH AT 2:26!!!!
 
[THIS IS NOT A DRILL]


I don't see how her being a mite ticked off at the way Shep acts to mean she's indoctrinated.

#2112
BatmanTurian

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RavenEyry wrote...

paxxton wrote...

PEOPLE OF THE GALAXY!!!

ASHLEY WILLIAMS HAS BEEN INDOCTRINATED!!!!!!!
 
[DEFCON 1]

BREAKING NEWS!!!

WATCH AT 2:26!!!!
 
[THIS IS NOT A DRILL]


I don't see how her being a mite ticked off at the way Shep acts to mean she's indoctrinated.


plus you have to get that scene by being stupid anyway.

#2113
BleedingUranium

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UrgedDuke wrote...

paxxton wrote...

PEOPLE OF THE GALAXY!!!

ASHLEY WILLIAMS HAS BEEN INDOCTRINATED!!!!!!!
 
[DEFCON 1]

BREAKING NEWS!!!

WATCH AT 2:26!!!!


 
[THIS IS NOT A DRILL]


she had a carnifex :bandit:

but then again ... so did bailey :blink:


Nope, Bailey has a Paladin.

#2114
paxxton

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BatmanTurian wrote...

RavenEyry wrote...

paxxton wrote...

PEOPLE OF THE GALAXY!!!

ASHLEY WILLIAMS HAS BEEN INDOCTRINATED!!!!!!!
 
[DEFCON 1]

BREAKING NEWS!!!

WATCH AT 2:26!!!!
 
[THIS IS NOT A DRILL]


I don't see how her being a mite ticked off at the way Shep acts to mean she's indoctrinated.


plus you have to get that scene by being stupid anyway.

Then I'm happy that I have never encountered this dialog on any of my playthroughs. Posted Image

Modifié par paxxton, 17 mai 2012 - 10:10 .


#2115
UrgedDuke

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BleedingUranium wrote...

UrgedDuke wrote...

paxxton wrote...

PEOPLE OF THE GALAXY!!!

ASHLEY WILLIAMS HAS BEEN INDOCTRINATED!!!!!!!
 
[DEFCON 1]

BREAKING NEWS!!!

WATCH AT 2:26!!!!


 
[THIS IS NOT A DRILL]


she had a carnifex :bandit:

but then again ... so did bailey :blink:


Nope, Bailey has a Paladin.


it is very hard to see but it does look grey and white instead of grey and red. My bad

#2116
Dwailing

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UrgedDuke wrote...

BleedingUranium wrote...

UrgedDuke wrote...

paxxton wrote...

PEOPLE OF THE GALAXY!!!

ASHLEY WILLIAMS HAS BEEN INDOCTRINATED!!!!!!!
 
[DEFCON 1]

BREAKING NEWS!!!

WATCH AT 2:26!!!!


 
[THIS IS NOT A DRILL]


she had a carnifex :bandit:

but then again ... so did bailey :blink:


Nope, Bailey has a Paladin.


it is very hard to see but it does look grey and white instead of grey and red. My bad


True, Bailey has a Paladin, but I do believe that Shep might have bad memories attached to the Carnifex thanks to this.  Also, did anyone notice the significance of the usage of the Carnifex in the scene where Shepard is attacked by Wrex on the Citadel?  If Shepard chooses to shoot, Wrex charges.  And remember in the description for the pistol what it says about the ad campaign for the gun?  Think about it....

#2117
MaximizedAction

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TSA_383 wrote...

I've just had a go at EQing the illusive man whispers.

There is dialogue in there - I THINK some of it is from the conversation with the slightly tragic young girl with the dead parents and that turian, him saying "Your parent's will be home soon kiddo" or something along those lines. Very hard to tell though.

There's also something that sounds hilariously like "check out her breasts" at 0:13.
Pretty sure that's not related to indoctrination, though.
Here's the crazy EQ that was needed to remove most of the noise:
Posted Image

There are one or two other seemingly obvious lines, but I don't want to put it in your head first in case I'm hearing something that's not there.

Here's the audio (damn right it's a 32-bit .wav file):
http://www.sendspace.com/file/f29yqp


"...Alright, change that, should take a ??? ??? right now"
"...let's go, let's get inside(?). Now it's getting ???"

It repeats again at 0:20.

#2118
paxxton

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Dwailing wrote...

UrgedDuke wrote...

BleedingUranium wrote...

UrgedDuke wrote...

paxxton wrote...

PEOPLE OF THE GALAXY!!!

ASHLEY WILLIAMS HAS BEEN INDOCTRINATED!!!!!!!
 
[DEFCON 1]

BREAKING NEWS!!!

WATCH AT 2:26!!!!


 
[THIS IS NOT A DRILL]


she had a carnifex :bandit:

but then again ... so did bailey :blink:


Nope, Bailey has a Paladin.


it is very hard to see but it does look grey and white instead of grey and red. My bad


True, Bailey has a Paladin, but I do believe that Shep might have bad memories attached to the Carnifex thanks to this.  Also, did anyone notice the significance of the usage of the Carnifex in the scene where Shepard is attacked by Wrex on the Citadel?  If Shepard chooses to shoot, Wrex charges.  And remember in the description for the pistol what it says about the ad campaign for the gun?  Think about it....

Did you hear what the Asari Councilor said? She was surprised that Cerberus soldiers disappeared and Bailey came out of the elevator. He's with Cerberus, I tell you.

Btw, what was the point in organizing the coup?

Modifié par paxxton, 17 mai 2012 - 09:59 .


#2119
Dwailing

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Son of a... I swear I just heard the Reaper roar at the end of the trailer for the new Harley Quinn's Revenge DLC for Batman Arkham City! Check it out! Whether I'm right or not, it looks pretty sweet.

http://www.gamespot....railer-6377265/

#2120
Rip504

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So maybe I can get an answer and a civil discussion here.

Rip504 wrote...

... wrote...

Question. What plot holes does IT have? Just curious, like a healthy human should be.


When and where Shepard is exposed to all this Reaper tech and indoctrination.
Specifics please.

Edit: Could a "fan's" "Interpretation" be considered a fanfic? As it is a piece of fiction created from a fan's mind?



Rip504 wrote...

... wrote...


Shep get exposed to reaper tech through out all of ME.  Indoctrination?  The only thing I can think of would be Object Rho, which nobody can deny, affected his mind due to the vision it give Shep.  Of course Arrival didn't happen for some people.


Exactly and this is not specifics. As I say Shepard was never exposed to Reaper Tech for a long enough time. Sure maybe short exposure here and there,but where? And When?

During ME1? Not IMO
During ME2? Maybe potentially in short burst. Aboard the Dead Reaper? Only for a few short hours,if that long? Not a day for sure. Arrival did not happen so? When? Collector base? I doubt it. Everyone else seems fine. When  TIM rebuilt Shepard? Well Shepard never seem to blindly follow or believe TIM,so I doubt it.

ME3? On Earth,when I have had little to no Reaper exposure throughout the franchise? On Mars? Perhaps Liara the Shadow Broker worked in secret with the Reapers to Indoctrinate Shepard? A hum aboard the Normandy? A Ship a vessel that makes noise? I get hit by a laser and boom I'm Indoctrinated?  Any of the Homeworlds? Aboard the Citadel perhaps? TIM's base,which we also only spend a short amount of time in.? Maybe TIM does try to indoctrinate Shepard during their final conversation,but "obviously" fails.

I asked for specifics,which I had to give. What am I missing? What does every Shepard experience that creates this? What prolonged exposure to Reaper tech do we ALL have? I am asking a honest question? Not being a smarta**.


I want a real specific answer. Not it has been discussed to death DUH,I am trying to join the discussion,not read a bunch of wrong information. I want the correct specifics laid out,because obviously I am missing IT.

Also before you go on a rampage:

Rip504 wrote...
I do not destroy other's theories. Nope I only laugh at those who state there is no other possibility. IT is the only way,and we are "haters","dream killers","stupid","arrogant","Ignorant","blind",etc for not supporting IT. That is tiresome. I do not support IT,because some of the IT fans(not all).  We are destroying your dream,by having a different opinion?  That is just my opinion though.


"7. Stating that all synthetic life will be destroyed will give you pause; destroying the Geth can force you to a different conclusion. This choice exists for the illusion of choice; the other choices are meant to sound better."
It did not give me pause? I have no problem with killing the Geth or EDI,in order to kill the Reapers.

"11. Shepard has spent a lot of time around Reapers. Sovereign, various Reaper artifacts, the Human Reaper, 2 Reaper destroyers, the Artifact from "The Arrival." Its foolish to assume there is not some level of
indoctrination."
It's foolish to assume it has,or any of this has an effect. Especially since Arrival is a complete NON factor. When did Shepard chill with Sovereign? Or ever exposed to Sovereign? or these "Various Artifacts"? The Human Reaper is an unfinished product much like ME3. So is my entire ME2 squad indoctrinated from the Human Reaper? Or just Shepard for convenience?


Spellcheck:social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/9727423/1 Obviously I have read IT.

#2121
UrgedDuke

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Dwailing wrote...

UrgedDuke wrote...

BleedingUranium wrote...

UrgedDuke wrote...

paxxton wrote...

PEOPLE OF THE GALAXY!!!

ASHLEY WILLIAMS HAS BEEN INDOCTRINATED!!!!!!!
 
[DEFCON 1]

BREAKING NEWS!!!

WATCH AT 2:26!!!!


 
[THIS IS NOT A DRILL]


she had a carnifex :bandit:

but then again ... so did bailey :blink:


Nope, Bailey has a Paladin.


it is very hard to see but it does look grey and white instead of grey and red. My bad


True, Bailey has a Paladin, but I do believe that Shep might have bad memories attached to the Carnifex thanks to this.  Also, did anyone notice the significance of the usage of the Carnifex in the scene where Shepard is attacked by Wrex on the Citadel?  If Shepard chooses to shoot, Wrex charges.  And remember in the description for the pistol what it says about the ad campaign for the gun?  Think about it....


ad campaign?

#2122
Dwailing

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paxxton wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

UrgedDuke wrote...

BleedingUranium wrote...

UrgedDuke wrote...

paxxton wrote...

PEOPLE OF THE GALAXY!!!

ASHLEY WILLIAMS HAS BEEN INDOCTRINATED!!!!!!!
 
[DEFCON 1]

BREAKING NEWS!!!

WATCH AT 2:26!!!!


 
[THIS IS NOT A DRILL]


she had a carnifex :bandit:

but then again ... so did bailey :blink:


Nope, Bailey has a Paladin.


it is very hard to see but it does look grey and white instead of grey and red. My bad


True, Bailey has a Paladin, but I do believe that Shep might have bad memories attached to the Carnifex thanks to this.  Also, did anyone notice the significance of the usage of the Carnifex in the scene where Shepard is attacked by Wrex on the Citadel?  If Shepard chooses to shoot, Wrex charges.  And remember in the description for the pistol what it says about the ad campaign for the gun?  Think about it....

Did you hear what the Asari Councilor said? She was surprised that Cerberus soldiers disappeared and Bailey came out of the elevator. He's with Cerberus, I tell you.

Btw, what was the point in organizing the coup?


Well, remember, at the end of the one mission, the mission report did say they were considering recruiting him.  Chekhov's gun, anyone?

#2123
Dwailing

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UrgedDuke wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

UrgedDuke wrote...

BleedingUranium wrote...

UrgedDuke wrote...

paxxton wrote...

PEOPLE OF THE GALAXY!!!

ASHLEY WILLIAMS HAS BEEN INDOCTRINATED!!!!!!!
 
[DEFCON 1]

BREAKING NEWS!!!

WATCH AT 2:26!!!!


 
[THIS IS NOT A DRILL]


she had a carnifex :bandit:

but then again ... so did bailey :blink:


Nope, Bailey has a Paladin.


it is very hard to see but it does look grey and white instead of grey and red. My bad


True, Bailey has a Paladin, but I do believe that Shep might have bad memories attached to the Carnifex thanks to this.  Also, did anyone notice the significance of the usage of the Carnifex in the scene where Shepard is attacked by Wrex on the Citadel?  If Shepard chooses to shoot, Wrex charges.  And remember in the description for the pistol what it says about the ad campaign for the gun?  Think about it....


ad campaign?


You know, in the description of the gun it mentions that the advertisements for the Carnifex show a picture of a charging Krogan with the caption, "Don't you wish Carnifex was at your side?"

#2124
Aanlen

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I just read somewhere that the "cut Anderson dialogue" at the ending, isn't actually cut. It's JUST used when Shepard haven't romanced anyone. Could anyone verify this? Because if so, I feel like its a damning evidence that Anderson is an extension, or a part of Shepard in the ending. In the shadowbroker files on Anderson, it becomes apparant that Andersons got a family and children. But at the ending he talks about never having had them. It seems like its Shepard himself, feeling that he's missed out on something at the end of his life. You don't get that conversatoin IF you're in a romance with someone, so Shepard doesnt feel lonely, and therefore you wont get the anderson conversation about family.

Any thoughts on this?

#2125
paxxton

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paxxton wrote...

Btw, what was the point in organizing the coup?


Repost. Seriously.

Modifié par paxxton, 17 mai 2012 - 10:09 .