55528 réponses à ce sujet

[AgentStark]

I dont know if anyone has read this yet, but read Mass Effect: Evolution. It talks about the Illusive Man's story.

As it turns out, Saren and TIM have had the same alterations by a Reaper artifact. Its the only explanation for how Saren was corrupted. Subjection to a live Reaper triggers the indoctrination. That's why the Illusive Man remained unaffected for so long. The Indoctrination effect was never triggered by a live Reaper. The beacons were physical adjustments, like Dragon's Teeth, and the Reapers themselves were mental indoctrinations.

This is not true with Shepard. Shepard has been in close proximity to Reapers all the time, and in Mass Effect 2, being inside a Reaper starts the mental process. You may be wondering, why not the rest of the Normandy crew? Well why did the Reapers only want Shepard's body? It's simple. It's because he defeated Saren. Saren was the Reaper's conduit to destroying the galaxy with no resistance. Because Shepard defeated Saren, the Reapers sought out to obtain and use Shepard instead. Best way to do this is to kill Shepard and use his body was a weapon. Easy.

To be honest all of that evidence is the most compelling.

[BleedingUranium]

alberto4395 wrote...

Question: If Shepard didn't take part in Arrival is IT still valid?

Yes, but the point is moot since Arrival is canon no matter what. Not doing it is non-canon.

[TJBartlemus]

alberto4395 wrote...

Question: If Shepard didn't take part in Arrival is IT still valid?

Yes. I do believe it doesn't require exposure to Object Rho to be indoctrinated you know. Really anything Reaper based that still works and hasn't been cleansed would potentially indoctrinate you. And it doesn't require constant exposure to the infrasonic sounds to indoctrinate you. The reaper subliminal message could be recieved in the subconscious and over time the idea to obey Reapers would surface and it would seem like it was your idea. (Reference to Inception) However this process takes a lot more time.

[HellishFiend]

Yeah, but in any case, whether IT is true or not, it is going to apply to everyone regardless of whether they did Arrival. So it's kind of a moot point, aside from the fact that we know Bioware includes Arrival in the canon.

[HellishFiend]

AgentStark wrote...

I dont know if anyone has read this yet, but read Mass Effect: Evolution. It talks about the Illusive Man's story.

As it turns out, Saren and TIM have had the same alterations by a Reaper artifact. Its the only explanation for how Saren was corrupted. Subjection to a live Reaper triggers the indoctrination. That's why the Illusive Man remained unaffected for so long. The Indoctrination effect was never triggered by a live Reaper. The beacons were physical adjustments, like Dragon's Teeth, and the Reapers themselves were mental indoctrinations.

This is not true with Shepard. Shepard has been in close proximity to Reapers all the time, and in Mass Effect 2, being inside a Reaper starts the mental process. You may be wondering, why not the rest of the Normandy crew? Well why did the Reapers only want Shepard's body? It's simple. It's because he defeated Saren. Saren was the Reaper's conduit to destroying the galaxy with no resistance. Because Shepard defeated Saren, the Reapers sought out to obtain and use Shepard instead. Best way to do this is to kill Shepard and use his body was a weapon. Easy.

To be honest all of that evidence is the most compelling.

Yeah, most of the people heavily into IT are also knowledegable on the lore. Frankly, once you know all the lore from the books and comics, it feels kinda crazy to even consider that IT might not be true. 

If you havent read the novels, I highly recommend those. They will sell you on the lore behind IT even more!

[gunslinger_ruiz]

HellishFiend wrote...

Yeah, but in any case, whether IT is true or not, it is going to apply to everyone regardless of whether they did Arrival. So it's kind of a moot point, aside from the fact that we know Bioware includes Arrival in the canon.

Arrival appears to be canon to the main story of Mass Effect, if IT is true and they use that as Shepard's main point of Indoctrination they'll likely just use something else less obvious for Shepards who didn't take part in the Arrival DLC much like they did with Shadow Broker and Arrival anyway.

[gunslinger_ruiz]

HellishFiend wrote...

AgentStark wrote...

I dont know if anyone has read this yet, but read Mass Effect: Evolution. It talks about the Illusive Man's story.

As it turns out, Saren and TIM have had the same alterations by a Reaper artifact. Its the only explanation for how Saren was corrupted. Subjection to a live Reaper triggers the indoctrination. That's why the Illusive Man remained unaffected for so long. The Indoctrination effect was never triggered by a live Reaper. The beacons were physical adjustments, like Dragon's Teeth, and the Reapers themselves were mental indoctrinations.

This is not true with Shepard. Shepard has been in close proximity to Reapers all the time, and in Mass Effect 2, being inside a Reaper starts the mental process. You may be wondering, why not the rest of the Normandy crew? Well why did the Reapers only want Shepard's body? It's simple. It's because he defeated Saren. Saren was the Reaper's conduit to destroying the galaxy with no resistance. Because Shepard defeated Saren, the Reapers sought out to obtain and use Shepard instead. Best way to do this is to kill Shepard and use his body was a weapon. Easy.

To be honest all of that evidence is the most compelling.

Yeah, most of the people heavily into IT are also knowledegable on the lore. Frankly, once you know all the lore from the books and comics, it feels kinda crazy to even consider that IT might not be true. 

If you havent read the novels, I highly recommend those. They will sell you on the lore behind IT even more!

I finally got around to ordering those three novels, but already read the comics and understood the lore enough without the books to believe mostly in IT. Still leaving room for errors...But I'm at least positive Bioware isn't finished with Shepard's story all thanks to that breath scene.

[HellishFiend]

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

Yeah, but in any case, whether IT is true or not, it is going to apply to everyone regardless of whether they did Arrival. So it's kind of a moot point, aside from the fact that we know Bioware includes Arrival in the canon.

Arrival appears to be canon to the main story of Mass Effect, if IT is true and they use that as Shepard's main point of Indoctrination they'll likely just use something else less obvious for Shepards who didn't take part in the Arrival DLC much like they did with Shadow Broker and Arrival anyway.

Would be funny if they just took out all but a few seconds of the footage explaining how Arrival affected him and put a quick overdub of Anderson's "...the **** you done" line. Serves them right for not playing arrival.   

[Bill Casey]

It's easier to explain how a Non Arrival Shepard became indoctrinated than how an Arrival Shepard didn't...

[HellishFiend]

Bill Casey wrote...

It's easier to explain how a Non Arrival Shepard became indoctrinated than how an Arrival Shepard didn't...

Once again Mr Casey speaks the truth!

[TJBartlemus]

@Hellish So is the video up yet? Or just waiting for it to upload?

[gunslinger_ruiz]

HellishFiend wrote...

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

Yeah, but in any case, whether IT is true or not, it is going to apply to everyone regardless of whether they did Arrival. So it's kind of a moot point, aside from the fact that we know Bioware includes Arrival in the canon.

Arrival appears to be canon to the main story of Mass Effect, if IT is true and they use that as Shepard's main point of Indoctrination they'll likely just use something else less obvious for Shepards who didn't take part in the Arrival DLC much like they did with Shadow Broker and Arrival anyway.

Would be funny if they just took out all but a few seconds of the footage explaining how Arrival affected him and put a quick overdub of Anderson's "...the **** you done" line. Serves them right for not playing arrival.   

That'd do it. Not sure why someone who plays Mass Effect wouldn't get Arrival, well it's essential to my playthroughs anyway, closes off the Cerberus storyline nice and right with an Alliance mission.
And it's like 6 bucks c'mon.

[gunslinger_ruiz]

HellishFiend wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...

It's easier to explain how a Non Arrival Shepard became indoctrinated than how an Arrival Shepard didn't...

Once again Mr Casey speaks the truth!

That's... that's like sage advice right there, Bill you're like a ninja with that it's awesome!

[D.Sharrah]

The Reapers are real!  And synthesis really can happen...

[HellishFiend]

TJBartlemus wrote...

@Hellish So is the video up yet? Or just waiting for it to upload?

It's rendering now. Crossing my fingers that the first render comes out well. I took a bit longer on the final edits/revisions because I changed a lot of the wording to be extra sure that people who dont know a lick about sound frequencies will be able to understand the concepts behind the evidence. I think it gets the concepts across clearly, but I'll let you guys determine that for me. I can always go back and change any parts where someone gets lost. 

[alberto4395]

If Shepard doesn't take part in Arrival I was told that some random soldiers do it instead. Is that true?

[Auralius Carolus]

TJBartlemus wrote...

alberto4395 wrote...

Question: If Shepard didn't take part in Arrival is IT still valid?

Yes. I do believe it doesn't require exposure to Object Rho to be indoctrinated you know. Really anything Reaper based that still works and hasn't been cleansed would potentially indoctrinate you. And it doesn't require constant exposure to the infrasonic sounds to indoctrinate you. The reaper subliminal message could be recieved in the subconscious and over time the idea to obey Reapers would surface and it would seem like it was your idea. (Reference to Inception) However this process takes a lot more time.

^^This^^

For elaboration, the Chinchillas have concluded that nanites are likely the cause of indoctrination without prolonged exposure. These tiny robots would multiply and begin to alter the physiology of the victom, slowly implanting the being and reproducing Reaper signals remotely.

All it takes is one moment of bad luck, just like catching the flu at a brief trip to Wal-Mart.

[Turbo_J]

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

Yeah, but in any case, whether IT is true or not, it is going to apply to everyone regardless of whether they did Arrival. So it's kind of a moot point, aside from the fact that we know Bioware includes Arrival in the canon.

Arrival appears to be canon to the main story of Mass Effect, if IT is true and they use that as Shepard's main point of Indoctrination they'll likely just use something else less obvious for Shepards who didn't take part in the Arrival DLC much like they did with Shadow Broker and Arrival anyway.

Walking around inside a dead Reaper is kind of up there. Also, having a blown up Reaper almost fall on you (ME1) probably didn't do Shep any good either. Then there's spending 6-7 minute killing a proto-Reaper... Arrival may be canon, but it's hardly necessary for Shep to be affected by long term mental indoctrination.

Couple the main exposures with the husk making device in ME2 (optional) and all the side quests and mission in ME3 that are indirect and direct exposures... I'm not sure how Shepard is holding on. That is something I would not mind at least partially revealed. What helped Shepard stay who they were for as long as they did, and perhaps permanently depending on what 'destroy' actually does. I'm pretty convinced that no matter what, the affects of the process are still going to be there. One wrong move, one pang of doubt...

[HellishFiend]

D.Sharrah wrote...

The Reapers are real!  And synthesis really can happen...

So name-brand iced tea is the secret behind space magic?  Never would have guessed..... 

[Auralius Carolus]

alberto4395 wrote...

If Shepard doesn't take part in Arrival I was told that some random soldiers do it instead. Is that true?

Other members of the Alliance Special Forces proceed with the mission, but are forced to sacrifice themselves to successfully destroy the Alpha Relay. While I cannot remember their exact unit, I'm fairly certain that their deaths detract from their unit's point value in the Galaxy at War.

[HellishFiend]

Auralius Carolus wrote...

TJBartlemus wrote...

alberto4395 wrote...

Question: If Shepard didn't take part in Arrival is IT still valid?

Yes. I do believe it doesn't require exposure to Object Rho to be indoctrinated you know. Really anything Reaper based that still works and hasn't been cleansed would potentially indoctrinate you. And it doesn't require constant exposure to the infrasonic sounds to indoctrinate you. The reaper subliminal message could be recieved in the subconscious and over time the idea to obey Reapers would surface and it would seem like it was your idea. (Reference to Inception) However this process takes a lot more time.

^^This^^

For elaboration, the Chinchillas have concluded that nanites are likely the cause of indoctrination without prolonged exposure. These tiny robots would multiply and begin to alter the physiology of the victom, slowly implanting the being and reproducing Reaper signals remotely.

All it takes is one moment of bad luck, just like catching the flu at a brief trip to Wal-Mart.

The Chinchillas are pro-nanide now? Never would have guessed....

[Starbuck8]

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

Yeah, but in any case, whether IT is true or not, it is going to apply to everyone regardless of whether they did Arrival. So it's kind of a moot point, aside from the fact that we know Bioware includes Arrival in the canon.

Arrival appears to be canon to the main story of Mass Effect, if IT is true and they use that as Shepard's main point of Indoctrination they'll likely just use something else less obvious for Shepards who didn't take part in the Arrival DLC much like they did with Shadow Broker and Arrival anyway.

Would be funny if they just took out all but a few seconds of the footage explaining how Arrival affected him and put a quick overdub of Anderson's "...the **** you done" line. Serves them right for not playing arrival.   

That'd do it. Not sure why someone who plays Mass Effect wouldn't get Arrival, well it's essential to my playthroughs anyway, closes off the Cerberus storyline nice and right with an Alliance mission.
And it's like 6 bucks c'mon.

Lol yeah I imported my character and started playing ME3 when my friend told me the ME2 DLC was important to the story. Full stop! Plunk down some money for MS points. Replay ME2 with the DLC

[HellishFiend]

Starbuck8 wrote...

Lol yeah I imported my character and started playing ME3 when my friend told me the ME2 DLC was important to the story. Full stop! Plunk down some money for MS points. Replay ME2 with the DLC

My pitstop was even less graceful than that.  Instead of importing my character and jumping in, I got hit with the unreadable face data bug. I had to spend several hours finding and using a workaround before I could play. 

So basically, my manshep phoned the Reapers and told them to wait a few more hours while he "put his face on". So vain.....

[Auralius Carolus]

Turbo_J wrote...

Walking around inside a dead Reaper is kind of up there. Also, having a blown up Reaper almost fall on you (ME1) probably didn't do Shep any good either. Then there's spending 6-7 minute killing a proto-Reaper... Arrival may be canon, but it's hardly necessary for Shep to be affected by long term mental indoctrination.

Couple the main exposures with the husk making device in ME2 (optional) and all the side quests and mission in ME3 that are indirect and direct exposures... I'm not sure how Shepard is holding on. That is something I would not mind at least partially revealed. What helped Shepard stay who they were for as long as they did, and perhaps permanently depending on what 'destroy' actually does. I'm pretty convinced that no matter what, the affects of the process are still going to be there. One wrong move, one pang of doubt...

I imagine a great deal of that will be covered in the EC, assuming we're right. I suspect there will be an "aha!" moment, followed by, say, flashbacks of when the event occured and how it progressed... a sort of explanation without spelling it out vocally.

And as to Shepard's fate, I supposed it would depend on exactly what force controls the indoctrination process. Clearly, those who were indoctrinated by Sovereign were still suffering years later, but perhaps if all the Reapers were taken out... or perhaps there is a central device?

There is the real possibility, too, that there could be a KOTOR ending, with Shepard going out to find where the Reapers came from in order to save himself and future peoples. If the Reapers weren't from the Milky Way originally/ expanded to other galaxies, then... infinite expansion potential.

[D.Sharrah]

HellishFiend wrote...

D.Sharrah wrote...

The Reapers are real!  And synthesis really can happen...

So name-brand iced tea is the secret behind space magic?  Never would have guessed..... 

It's true...just look at the leaves.