55528 réponses à ce sujet

[MaximizedAction]

Aanlen wrote...

I just read somewhere that the "cut Anderson dialogue" at the ending, isn't actually cut. It's JUST used when Shepard haven't romanced anyone. Could anyone verify this? Because if so, I feel like its a damning evidence that Anderson is an extension, or a part of Shepard in the ending. In the shadowbroker files on Anderson, it becomes apparant that Andersons got a family and children. But at the ending he talks about never having had them. It seems like its Shepard himself, feeling that he's missed out on something at the end of his life. You don't get that conversatoin IF you're in a romance with someone, so Shepard doesnt feel lonely, and therefore you wont get the anderson conversation about family.

Any thoughts on this?

Certainly would make sense of true. Now we only need a proof from code or a vid.

[TSA_383]

Aanlen wrote...

I just read somewhere that the "cut Anderson dialogue" at the ending, isn't actually cut. It's JUST used when Shepard haven't romanced anyone. Could anyone verify this? Because if so, I feel like its a damning evidence that Anderson is an extension, or a part of Shepard in the ending. In the shadowbroker files on Anderson, it becomes apparant that Andersons got a family and children. But at the ending he talks about never having had them. It seems like its Shepard himself, feeling that he's missed out on something at the end of his life. You don't get that conversatoin IF you're in a romance with someone, so Shepard doesnt feel lonely, and therefore you wont get the anderson conversation about family.

Any thoughts on this?

This is true, saw someone demo it, but I don't know of anyone who's played through all three games without romances.
Given that members of either sex in the ME universe all seem to see Shepard as some kind of gleaming sex god (except Aria apparently but she's just playing hard to get ) then I think it's likely mostly new ME players starting at ME3 who'd get this scene.
Definitely makes a good point about anderson, but surely they didn't expect many people to get the "anderson doesn't have family" thing since you see that he does on LotSB and surely there aren't many players who've done the previous games and DLC but come out without a LI from any game.

MaximizedAction wrote...

TSA_383 wrote...

I've just had a go at EQing the illusive man whispers.

There
is dialogue in there - I THINK some of it is from the conversation with
the slightly tragic young girl with the dead parents and that turian,
him saying "Your parent's will be home soon kiddo" or something along
those lines. Very hard to tell though.

There's also something that sounds hilariously like "check out her breasts" at 0:13.
Pretty sure that's not related to indoctrination, though.
Here's the crazy EQ that was needed to remove most of the noise:


There
are one or two other seemingly obvious lines, but I don't want to put
it in your head first in case I'm hearing something that's not there.

Here's the audio (damn right it's a 32-bit .wav file):
http://www.sendspace.com/file/f29yqp

"...Alright, change that, should take a ??? ??? right now"
"...let's go, let's get inside(?). Now it's getting ???"

It repeats again at 0:20.

I think I know what you're talking about.

Try it with headphones, and try it LOUD [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/wink.png[/smilie]

[Dwailing]

paxxton wrote...

paxxton wrote...

Btw, what was the point in organizing the coup?

Repost.

Scaring the Council into giving their support for the war?  Eliminating the militarily incompetent Councilor Udina who would have wasted the Council fleets in a desparated attack on Earth?  Honestly, there could be many reasons.  You know this little thing called a Xanatos Gambit?  It fits here.  If Udina succeeds, Cerberus essentially controls the Council.  If he fails, the Council races mobilize their forces for the war, meaning that they will be fighting the Reapers and not Cerberus.

Edit: Either way, Cerberus wins.  In fact, this might be a Batman Gambit.  Maybe TIM EXPECTED the plan to fail and actually WANTED Udina dead.  So maybe, just maybe, he set the whole thing in motion expecting Shepard to save the day.

Edit: I should point out that if Udina succeeded, TIM probably would have had him killed anyway.  He's not the kind of guy you want leading forces in a war.

Modifié par Dwailing, 17 mai 2012 - 10:14 .

[Hawk227]

Aanlen wrote...

I just read somewhere that the "cut Anderson dialogue" at the ending, isn't actually cut. It's JUST used when Shepard haven't romanced anyone. Could anyone verify this? Because if so, I feel like its a damning evidence that Anderson is an extension, or a part of Shepard in the ending. In the shadowbroker files on Anderson, it becomes apparant that Andersons got a family and children. But at the ending he talks about never having had them. It seems like its Shepard himself, feeling that he's missed out on something at the end of his life. You don't get that conversatoin IF you're in a romance with someone, so Shepard doesnt feel lonely, and therefore you wont get the anderson conversation about family.

Any thoughts on this?

I don't know anything about that dialogue being present if you don't romance anyone, but if that's true it is interesting. My one complaint is that I don't think that the Shadow Broker dossier makes it apparent that Anderson has a an (Ex-)wife and kid. It's pretty ambiguous. It could really easily be his sister, describing her son (his nephew).

If all of these assumptions (The dialogue is present w/ no romance, Anderson actually has a family) are true, then I agree with you the implications strongly favor IT.

[Dwailing]

Hawk227 wrote...

Aanlen wrote...

I just read somewhere that the "cut Anderson dialogue" at the ending, isn't actually cut. It's JUST used when Shepard haven't romanced anyone. Could anyone verify this? Because if so, I feel like its a damning evidence that Anderson is an extension, or a part of Shepard in the ending. In the shadowbroker files on Anderson, it becomes apparant that Andersons got a family and children. But at the ending he talks about never having had them. It seems like its Shepard himself, feeling that he's missed out on something at the end of his life. You don't get that conversatoin IF you're in a romance with someone, so Shepard doesnt feel lonely, and therefore you wont get the anderson conversation about family.

Any thoughts on this?

I don't know anything about that dialogue being present if you don't romance anyone, but if that's true it is interesting. My one complaint is that I don't think that the Shadow Broker dossier makes it apparent that Anderson has a an (Ex-)wife and kid. It's pretty ambiguous. It could really easily be his sister, describing her son (his nephew).

If all of these assumptions (The dialogue is present w/ no romance, Anderson actually has a family) are true, then I agree with you the implications strongly favor IT.

I would suggest that you read Mass Effect: Revelations.  It makes it pretty clear that Anderson has an ex-wife and a son.

[UrgentArchengel]

Going to infiltrate Anti-IT lines soon. It should be fun, I just want to see both sides if the argument. Get into both mentalities. Wish me luck.

[BatmanTurian]

[quote]Rip504 wrote...

So maybe I can get an answer and a civil discussion here.

[quote]Rip504 wrote...

[quote]... wrote...

Question. What plot holes does IT have? Just curious, like a healthy human should be.[/quote]

When and where Shepard is exposed to all this Reaper tech and indoctrination.
Specifics please.

Edit: Could a "fan's" "Interpretation" be considered a fanfic? As it is a piece of fiction created from a fan's mind?

[/quote]

I'm only going to address this part because it always irks me and the others can discuss the rest of your post. I despise calling a literary interpretation fan fiction because if that is true, then every Lit professor who has ever interpreted literature and writes a paper on it is writing " fan fiction".

Not only that, but people who call a literary interpretation " fan fiction" apparently do not even know what Fan Fiction is or what it means.

EDIT: I'll address your question myself by linking you to Parabolee's blog that holds all our evidence, logic, and information.

Modifié par BatmanTurian, 17 mai 2012 - 10:24 .

[paxxton]

Dwailing wrote...

paxxton wrote...

paxxton wrote...

Btw, what was the point in organizing the coup?

Repost.

Scaring the Council into giving their support for the war?  Eliminating the militarily incompetent Councilor Udina who would have wasted the Council fleets in a desparated attack on Earth?  Honestly, there could be many reasons.  You know this little thing called a Xanatos Gambit?  It fits here.  If Udina succeeds, Cerberus essentially controls the Council.  If he fails, the Council races mobilize their forces for the war, meaning that they will be fighting the Reapers and not Cerberus.

Edit: Either way, Cerberus wins.  In fact, this might be a Batman Gambit.  Maybe TIM EXPECTED the plan to fail and actually WANTED Udina dead.  So maybe, just maybe, he set the whole thing in motion expecting Shepard to save the day.

Edit: I should point out that if Udina succeeded, TIM probably would have had him killed anyway.  He's not the kind of guy you want leading forces in a war.

So does it really have any clear significance for the main story or is it just muddying the water?

TIM didn't want the Council to join the war on Earth because he didn't want the Reapers destroyed.

Besides, the coup is a failure and Cerberus is clearly seen as an enemy afterwards, almost as dangerous as the Reapers. An enemy that has to be eliminated.

Modifié par paxxton, 17 mai 2012 - 10:30 .

[Hawk227]

Dwailing wrote...

Hawk227 wrote...

Aanlen wrote...

I just read somewhere that the "cut Anderson dialogue" at the ending, isn't actually cut. It's JUST used when Shepard haven't romanced anyone. Could anyone verify this? Because if so, I feel like its a damning evidence that Anderson is an extension, or a part of Shepard in the ending. In the shadowbroker files on Anderson, it becomes apparant that Andersons got a family and children. But at the ending he talks about never having had them. It seems like its Shepard himself, feeling that he's missed out on something at the end of his life. You don't get that conversatoin IF you're in a romance with someone, so Shepard doesnt feel lonely, and therefore you wont get the anderson conversation about family.

Any thoughts on this?

I don't know anything about that dialogue being present if you don't romance anyone, but if that's true it is interesting. My one complaint is that I don't think that the Shadow Broker dossier makes it apparent that Anderson has a an (Ex-)wife and kid. It's pretty ambiguous. It could really easily be his sister, describing her son (his nephew).

If all of these assumptions (The dialogue is present w/ no romance, Anderson actually has a family) are true, then I agree with you the implications strongly favor IT.

I would suggest that you read Mass Effect: Revelations.  It makes it pretty clear that Anderson has an ex-wife and a son.

From the David Anderson wikia, under Mass Effect: Revelations :

"Anderson received the final decree of his divorce from his wife Cynthia, a separation caused by the long absences of his military career."

The same cynthia from shadow broker dossiers.

Good to know.

Modifié par Hawk227, 17 mai 2012 - 10:21 .

[Aanlen]

Dwailing wrote...

Hawk227 wrote...

Aanlen wrote...

I just read somewhere that the "cut Anderson dialogue" at the ending, isn't actually cut. It's JUST used when Shepard haven't romanced anyone. Could anyone verify this? Because if so, I feel like its a damning evidence that Anderson is an extension, or a part of Shepard in the ending. In the shadowbroker files on Anderson, it becomes apparant that Andersons got a family and children. But at the ending he talks about never having had them. It seems like its Shepard himself, feeling that he's missed out on something at the end of his life. You don't get that conversatoin IF you're in a romance with someone, so Shepard doesnt feel lonely, and therefore you wont get the anderson conversation about family.

Any thoughts on this?

I don't know anything about that dialogue being present if you don't romance anyone, but if that's true it is interesting. My one complaint is that I don't think that the Shadow Broker dossier makes it apparent that Anderson has a an (Ex-)wife and kid. It's pretty ambiguous. It could really easily be his sister, describing her son (his nephew).

If all of these assumptions (The dialogue is present w/ no romance, Anderson actually has a family) are true, then I agree with you the implications strongly favor IT.

I would suggest that you read Mass Effect: Revelations.  It makes it pretty clear that Anderson has an ex-wife and a son.

Oh my. If its even mentioned in the book, then it cant be something they forgotten about easily, can it?  Someone really needs to verify this.

[MegumiAzusa]

UrgentArchengel wrote...

Going to infiltrate Anti-IT lines soon. It should be fun, I just want to see both sides if the argument. Get into both mentalities. Wish me luck.

Listen to yourself! You're indoctrinated!
Also:
I think you've gotten a little too close to the enemy.

[estebanus]

UrgentArchengel wrote...

Going to infiltrate Anti-IT lines soon. It should be fun, I just want to see both sides if the argument. Get into both mentalities. Wish me luck.

I hope you'll come back again in one piece!

[paxxton]

estebanus wrote...

UrgentArchengel wrote...

Going to infiltrate Anti-IT lines soon. It should be fun, I just want to see both sides if the argument. Get into both mentalities. Wish me luck.

I hope you'll come back again in one piece!

Haha! That was a good one.

Modifié par paxxton, 17 mai 2012 - 10:55 .

[balance5050]

UrgentArchengel wrote...

Going to infiltrate Anti-IT lines soon. It should be fun, I just want to see both sides if the argument. Get into both mentalities. Wish me luck.

Got a regular Jane Goodall over here....

[Rip504]

BatmanTurian wrote...

I'm only going to address this part because it always irks me and the others can discuss the rest of your post. I despise calling a literary interpretation fan fiction because if that is true, then every Lit professor who has ever interpreted literature and writes a paper on it is writing " fan fiction".

Not only that, but people who call a literary interpretation " fan fiction" apparently do not even know what Fan Fiction is or what it means.

Most fans are not professional writers. 
My question irks you?
Ignore the rest as you obviously have no answer.



It was created by a fan,to alter our current ending. IT has many characteristics of a fanfic. It is a fan written "interpretation" (although unstated by many) that "alters" our current ending into something else. Although it is not written as a story,only as an assumption/explanation/interpretation. I understand why it is misconceived.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fan_fiction


I agree that IT is not a fanfic. 

Modifié par Rip504, 17 mai 2012 - 10:41 .

[MegumiAzusa]

Hawk227 wrote...

Aanlen wrote...

I just read somewhere that the "cut Anderson dialogue" at the ending, isn't actually cut. It's JUST used when Shepard haven't romanced anyone. Could anyone verify this? Because if so, I feel like its a damning evidence that Anderson is an extension, or a part of Shepard in the ending. In the shadowbroker files on Anderson, it becomes apparant that Andersons got a family and children. But at the ending he talks about never having had them. It seems like its Shepard himself, feeling that he's missed out on something at the end of his life. You don't get that conversatoin IF you're in a romance with someone, so Shepard doesnt feel lonely, and therefore you wont get the anderson conversation about family.

Any thoughts on this?

I don't know anything about that dialogue being present if you don't romance anyone, but if that's true it is interesting. My one complaint is that I don't think that the Shadow Broker dossier makes it apparent that Anderson has a an (Ex-)wife and kid. It's pretty ambiguous. It could really easily be his sister, describing her son (his nephew).

If all of these assumptions (The dialogue is present w/ no romance, Anderson actually has a family) are true, then I agree with you the implications strongly favor IT.

Hope it's not a dialog you only get when imported a save from ME2, doing a runthrough as Good Guy Shepard

[Dwailing]

paxxton wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

paxxton wrote...

paxxton wrote...

Btw, what was the point in organizing the coup?

Repost.

Scaring the Council into giving their support for the war?  Eliminating the militarily incompetent Councilor Udina who would have wasted the Council fleets in a desparated attack on Earth?  Honestly, there could be many reasons.  You know this little thing called a Xanatos Gambit?  It fits here.  If Udina succeeds, Cerberus essentially controls the Council.  If he fails, the Council races mobilize their forces for the war, meaning that they will be fighting the Reapers and not Cerberus.

Edit: Either way, Cerberus wins.  In fact, this might be a Batman Gambit.  Maybe TIM EXPECTED the plan to fail and actually WANTED Udina dead.  So maybe, just maybe, he set the whole thing in motion expecting Shepard to save the day.

Edit: I should point out that if Udina succeeded, TIM probably would have had him killed anyway.  He's not the kind of guy you want leading forces in a war.

So does it really have any clear significance for the main story or is it just muddying the water?

TIM didn't want the Council to join the war on Earth because he didn't want the Reapers destroyed.

Besides, the coup is a failure and Cerberus is clearly seen as an enemy afterwards, almost as dangerous as the Reapers. An enemy that has to be eliminated.

Honestly, I don't know.  Unless some small part of TIM didn't want to control the Reapers because he was resisting indoctrination.  I honestly don't know, though.

[MaximizedAction]

TSA_383 wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...

TSA_383 wrote...

I've just had a go at EQing the illusive man whispers.

There
is dialogue in there - I THINK some of it is from the conversation with
the slightly tragic young girl with the dead parents and that turian,
him saying "Your parent's will be home soon kiddo" or something along
those lines. Very hard to tell though.

There's also something that sounds hilariously like "check out her breasts" at 0:13.
Pretty sure that's not related to indoctrination, though.
Here's the crazy EQ that was needed to remove most of the noise:


There
are one or two other seemingly obvious lines, but I don't want to put
it in your head first in case I'm hearing something that's not there.

Here's the audio (damn right it's a 32-bit .wav file):
http://www.sendspace.com/file/f29yqp

"...Alright, change that, should take a ??? ??? right now"
"...let's go, let's get inside(?). Now it's getting ???"

It repeats again at 0:20.

I think I know what you're talking about.

Try it with headphones, and try it LOUD [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/wink.png[/smilie]

Ok, just so I don't waste my time on random babling for the sake of ramdom babling: Is there actually speculation worthy material to be heard (according to what you heard)?

Modifié par MaximizedAction, 17 mai 2012 - 10:43 .

[balance5050]

Rip504 wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

I'm only going to address this part because it always irks me and the others can discuss the rest of your post. I despise calling a literary interpretation fan fiction because if that is true, then every Lit professor who has ever interpreted literature and writes a paper on it is writing " fan fiction".

Not only that, but people who call a literary interpretation " fan fiction" apparently do not even know what Fan Fiction is or what it means.

Most fans are not professional writers. 
My question irks you?
Ignore the rest as you obviously have no answer.
But let me ask you this,What is a fanfic then?


It was created by a fan,to alter our current ending. IT has many characteristics of a fanfic. It is a fan written "interpretation" (although unstated by many) that "alters" our current ending into something else. Although it is not written as a story,only as an assumption/explanation/interpretation. I understand why it is misconceived.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fan_fiction


I agree that IT is not a fanfic. 

Nice.. cause it's not like indoctrination wasn't in the game since day one or anything. Indoctrination is official lore.

[Unschuld]

UrgentArchengel wrote...

Going to infiltrate Anti-IT lines soon. It should be fun, I just want to see both sides if the argument. Get into both mentalities. Wish me luck.

That's a good way to begin an infiltration... Announcing you're going to infiltrate. 

[BatmanTurian]

Rip504 wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

I'm only going to address this part because it always irks me and the others can discuss the rest of your post. I despise calling a literary interpretation fan fiction because if that is true, then every Lit professor who has ever interpreted literature and writes a paper on it is writing " fan fiction".

Not only that, but people who call a literary interpretation " fan fiction" apparently do not even know what Fan Fiction is or what it means.

Most fans are not professional writers. 
My question irks you?
Ignore the rest as you obviously have no answer.



It was created by a fan,to alter our current ending. IT has many characteristics of a fanfic. It is a fan written "interpretation" (although unstated by many) that "alters" our current ending into something else. Although it is not written as a story,only as an assumption/explanation/interpretation. I understand why it is misconceived.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fan_fiction


I agree that IT is not a fanfic. 

It only irks me because it is constantly brought up to impugn it. " Oh that's just something someone made up." But I'm glad that you agree.

Anyway, I had an answer in the edit and referred you to Parabolee's blog, which has our evidence, logic, and such. Perhaps the others can answer your other questions more deeply. I'm not going to wade in too deep where I can't swim.

[TheConstantOne]

 I was looking for this thread's restart! Glad to see everyone again  

[RavenEyry]

@Parabolee if you're still around. I read your collation of indoctrination evidence and counter-evidence and want to commend the effort you've put in. It's very objective and does not come off as 'preaching' which is good.

A couple of points you missed that you might want to consider:
-The catalyst place, which you mentioned was weird, also appears to be in open space. And Shepard is standing there without a helmet.
-In the zoomout of the galaxy that shows the chain reaction amongst the relays, the first explosion does not come from Sol as it logically should. In fact someone who mapped it out said Sol was the seventh to pop.

[paxxton]

Dwailing wrote...

paxxton wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

paxxton wrote...

paxxton wrote...

Btw, what was the point in organizing the coup?

Repost.

Scaring the Council into giving their support for the war?  Eliminating the militarily incompetent Councilor Udina who would have wasted the Council fleets in a desparated attack on Earth?  Honestly, there could be many reasons.  You know this little thing called a Xanatos Gambit?  It fits here.  If Udina succeeds, Cerberus essentially controls the Council.  If he fails, the Council races mobilize their forces for the war, meaning that they will be fighting the Reapers and not Cerberus.

Edit: Either way, Cerberus wins.  In fact, this might be a Batman Gambit.  Maybe TIM EXPECTED the plan to fail and actually WANTED Udina dead.  So maybe, just maybe, he set the whole thing in motion expecting Shepard to save the day.

Edit: I should point out that if Udina succeeded, TIM probably would have had him killed anyway.  He's not the kind of guy you want leading forces in a war.

So does it really have any clear significance for the main story or is it just muddying the water?

TIM didn't want the Council to join the war on Earth because he didn't want the Reapers destroyed.

Besides, the coup is a failure and Cerberus is clearly seen as an enemy afterwards, almost as dangerous as the Reapers. An enemy that has to be eliminated.

Honestly, I don't know.  Unless some small part of TIM didn't want to control the Reapers because he was resisting indoctrination.  I honestly don't know, though.

Since the Cerberus coup was such a big deal in the game there had to be an equally important reason to pull it off. It definately wasn't to seize control of the Catalyst because the coup happened before the Thessia mission and the nature of the Catalyst was still unknown to TIM.

Modifié par paxxton, 17 mai 2012 - 10:53 .

[UrgentArchengel]

Unschuld wrote...

UrgentArchengel wrote...

Going to infiltrate Anti-IT lines soon. It should be fun, I just want to see both sides if the argument. Get into both mentalities. Wish me luck.

That's a good way to begin an infiltration... Announcing you're going to infiltrate. 

Yup.  (^-^)