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[Ravereth]

Indrick201193 wrote...

 Since we are analysing Shepherds dreams(music etc) i thought i might throw in my 2 cents. I have been analysing symbolism in dreams for a little bit and found that all of the things IT tells us about sheperds mental state a depicted and are used as motifs in a dream. So with that said lets get started. 
Setting (forest): A forest is typical of being lost and is associated with negative feelings this is further combine with the colour of the tress being a dark pallette. This setting is usually associated with parts of your life being difficult. However something interesting i found will reseaching is that the setting is typical of a hero acting against oppression and the dream setting is to shows the imprtance of people who are important to use (refer to whispers later on).

Running slowly: slow motion running in dreams is usually that 
you are running away from or trying to hide from something you need to face. It could be a feeling you are avoiding, a conflict you don’t want to handle or a difficult memory you would rather forget. For Sheperd its obvious that he feels guilty for the loss of the child in the beginning and cannot face the odds. In reference to IT this is probably what the reapers wanted to ahcieve by breaking his moral which is demonstrated with the slow running and child in the dream.

I wont add anymore just to see what you guys thought. Th ones that have been explained is the child burning and shep as well, but the setting of the dream is just out of place as  i dont think we encounter any dark forests in ME.

I have more if you want CLICK 

[Vox Draco]

nightcobra8928 wrote...
anderson: you know...i was born in london

shepard: i know, you told me already just before and even then i've read your file way back when on eden prime.

anderson: i was born in london you know.

shepard: are you mocking me sir?

anderson: and did you know i was born in london?

shepard: sir?

anderson: london

shepard: anderson?

anderson: london

shepard: anderson?

anderson: london 

shepard: anderson?

anderson: london 

Harbinger: DAMN! THIS CHEAP INDOCTRINATION DEVICE IS STUTTERING AGAIN! HEY, DOOMBRINGER; GET THIS SILLY THING WORKING AGAIN; AND QUICKLY NOW! SHEPARD ALMOST BROKE FREE!

Doombringer: YEAH, YEAH, ALWAYS THE SAME EACH CYCLE...WHY CAN'T WE JUST GET A NEW ONE?

Harbinger: JUST SHUT UP AND DO WHAT I TOLD YOU BEFORE I ASSUME DIRECT CONTROL OF YOUR ARSE!

Doombringer: *GRUMBLE GRUMBLE* 

[NoSpin]

This community never ceases to amaze me, excellent work HellishFiend.

[Jadebaby]

So another speculative thought, anyone remember how Bioware said TIM boss battle was left out because it'd be "too video gamey"?

Question is, how would that even work? You obviously couldn't battle him while ur wounded and bleeding out in the control room, so when was this battle meant to take place?

I have one answer, maybe it will be the boss battle after IT is confirmed..? Showing people that they had planned it all along..

Anyone else think about this?

[lex0r11]

Jade8aby88 wrote...

So another speculative thought, anyone remember how Bioware said TIM boss battle was left out because it'd be "too video gamey"?

Question is, how would that even work? You obviously couldn't battle him while ur wounded and bleeding out in the control room, so when was this battle meant to take place?

I have one answer, maybe it will be the boss battle after IT is confirmed..? Showing people that they had planned it all along..

Anyone else think about this?

I believe it was planned for his base, fighting him instead of that awkward Kai Leng fight. Could be wrong, maybe it was never mentioned were it was planned.

Modifié par lex0r11, 18 juin 2012 - 12:43 .

[Indrick201193]

Thanks Ravereth awesome job!!

[Jadebaby]

lex0r11 wrote...

Jade8aby88 wrote...

So another speculative thought, anyone remember how Bioware said TIM boss battle was left out because it'd be "too video gamey"?

Question is, how would that even work? You obviously couldn't battle him while ur wounded and bleeding out in the control room, so when was this battle meant to take place?

I have one answer, maybe it will be the boss battle after IT is confirmed..? Showing people that they had planned it all along..

Anyone else think about this?

I believe it was planned for his base, fighting him instead of that awkward Kai Leng fight. Could be wrong, maybe it was never mentioned were it was planned.

Well that does make the most sense, but then leaves the ending rather up in the air.. unless he sumhow escapes and .. err... tucks himself back into his suit.....

[Rifneno]

The art book has some... "odd" stuff about TIM's station. There's "early concept" pictures of what things would have looked like if the picture of the dying supergiant behind TIM was not a hologram but rather a real dying star. In the game, it IS a real dying star, not a hologram. Another picture says "this is what the room might have looked like during a violent confrontation." It's a picture of the room where you fight Kei Leng with the panels blasted out to give cover, just like what's actually used in the game. They keep refering to this stuff as having never been used. And this is the best one... they said this room is what it would have looked like right before battling TIM, as Shepard defeats the last of his Cerberus troops. ... It's the keeper tunnel on the hallucination Citadel. And the book implies it was intended as part of TIM's base.

I really do wonder if they did this as a hint that things aren't real toward the end. Earlier in the book they show the various enemies you'll face. They have no problem with showing Reaperized rachni, which totally shocked me when I saw them before playing the game and kind of spoiled the surprise of what awaited me on that front. But anyway, they also have banshees. The art book, however, says they're Reaperized asari matriachs. Not ardat-yakshi. But just about the whole point of that enemy is their insta-kill that's based on their ardat-yakshi roots. I find it hard to believe they were ever not intended to be AY. There is, however, an achievement for doing the AY monastery mission, "uncover an enemy's monstrous origin." As though they consider banshees' origin story to be a spoiler and thus lied about it in the art book.

[Jadebaby]

Oh also guys, important... Check out this vid by .. ehh I'll just post the OP...

It's from the "why you chose destroy" thread. The video relates heavily to the IT, it does touch on a lot of things you have probably seen before... But he really highlights the plotholes going back to ME1 with Sovereign, it's done very well so I thought it deserved more appreciation

Check it out if you have the time, it goes for 28 mins.

Xellith wrote...

www.youtube.com/user/Xellith

I chose destroy because of this. This is my interpretation of the ending.

Modifié par Jade8aby88, 18 juin 2012 - 08:47 .

[Jadebaby]

Rifneno wrote...

 And this is the best one... they said this room is what it would have looked like right before battling TIM, as Shepard defeats the last of his Cerberus troops. ... It's the keeper tunnel on the hallucination Citadel. And the book implies it was intended as part of TIM's base.

THAT is interesting! Yea the artbook spoiled Jack's new costume for me in ME3... Saw a glimpse and was like, nup not looking through that until I finish the game, come to think of it... I still haven't checked back through it lol.

Btw... Has anyone gone through the game manual? I bought it for like $30 and ever since it's just been an expensive paperweight, I doubt there'd be any hints in there, but if no one has checked through it I'd be happy to give it a run over tomorrow.

[munnellyladt]

lex0r11 wrote...

Jade8aby88 wrote...

So another speculative thought, anyone remember how Bioware said TIM boss battle was left out because it'd be "too video gamey"?

Question is, how would that even work? You obviously couldn't battle him while ur wounded and bleeding out in the control room, so when was this battle meant to take place?

I have one answer, maybe it will be the boss battle after IT is confirmed..? Showing people that they had planned it all along..

Anyone else think about this?

I believe it was planned for his base, fighting him instead of that awkward Kai Leng fight. Could be wrong, maybe it was never mentioned were it was planned.

No mate,th idea was that the fight would take place on the citedel.
In the art book shepard was not hit by the beam and its says he would have walked down the hallway(where you went to from the beam)past the rest of the illusive mans cerberus troops and found him.

[Jonata]

 Hi theorists! Don't know if this has been discussed yet (sorry but I just don't have enough time to read the 860 pages before this one) but there's a thing that is buggering me since I started my actual playthrough.

Does the kid's only line when you meet him on Earth, "You can't help me", seem a little bit strange to you? I mean, he is too damn serious to be a scared kid. He acts like he absolutely knows   he will die and he already accepted it.

[TSA_383]

Jonata wrote...

 Hi theorists! Don't know if this has been discussed yet (sorry but I just don't have enough time to read the 860 pages before this one) but there's a thing that is buggering me since I started my actual playthrough.

Does the kid's only line when you meet him on Earth, "You can't help me", seem a little bit strange to you? I mean, he is too damn serious to be a scared kid. He acts like he absolutely knows   he will die and he already accepted it.

Or the child it's based on is long dead, as was hinted in the original ME3 cinematic trailer?

[nightcobra]

i would have liked to have seen the illusive man have a send-off with more ...oomph. Like him commiting a last act of defiance against the reapers to save humanity, by making most if not all the reaper groundforces by using what he learned about indocrination while he says: My name is jack Harper! I am humanity! And I AM Cerberus! *makes husks,brutes and etc self destruct* ... See you in hades commander(he says as he turns to shepard and falls down dead)

[Andromidius]

Jonata wrote...

 Hi theorists! Don't know if this has been discussed yet (sorry but I just don't have enough time to read the 860 pages before this one) but there's a thing that is buggering me since I started my actual playthrough.

Does the kid's only line when you meet him on Earth, "You can't help me", seem a little bit strange to you? I mean, he is too damn serious to be a scared kid. He acts like he absolutely knows   he will die and he already accepted it.

Yeah, its part of the reason we don't think he actually exists and is infact a projected hallucination from the Reapers.

Either that or Shepard is Ka-Raze-Ey.

[Sero303]

Since the IDT-2 thread is the best I've seen for casting doubt and suspicion upon what we saw in ME3 ... I ask you this my friends...

What ever happened to these at least FOUR distinctive REAPERS we saw in the end of ME2? Look closely at the picture, at least 2 of the "unidentified reapers" have multiple copies, ( especially the one if you look close enough you can make out dozens maybe hundreds) certainly more then the soveriegn and destroyers we saw in the game.


And before anyone replies with "its was cheaper not to put them into the game" yes we are all aware that bioware/EA is a corporation(s) and earning profits is their #1 goal... my question is about their "artisitic integrity" in this matter.

Modifié par Sero303, 18 juin 2012 - 01:45 .

[Andromidius]

Sero303 wrote...

And before anyone replies with "its was cheaper not to put them into the game" yes we are all aware that bioware/EA is a corporation(s) and earning profits is their #1 goal... my question is about their "artisitic integrity" in this matter.

I would completely disregard the notion of laziness, they've already designed the other Reaper models.  Maybe not fully animated and textured, but regardless it wouldn't be lazy to not include them.  It would have been lazy to use the existing models and downscale them instead of creating the Destroyers purely for ME3.

As for why they aren't in ME3, I'm not sure.  Maybe it was an artistic choice, so there's less doubt about the purpose of each Reaper and so Harbinger is most noticable as being 'different'.

Which then makes me wonder why Harbinger was left out of the story.  There's no way it wouldn't be involved, even in a relatively minor way, taunting Shepard along the way.

[Big Bad]

HellishFiend - Great job with the video! I've got a couple questions, but I have to run off to work now, so I'll ask them later. Well done, sir!

[Salient Archer]

Had a weird thought that I haven't fully formed but need to express before I forget it... Anyway; as we know Indoctrination is essentially inception; it's having somebody else's idea (in this case the Reapers) planted so deeply inside your psyche that you truly believe it to be your own. So what if the uniting of the galactic fleet and hence galaxy was a Reaper concept planted inside Shepard's head? We know that TIM was indoctrinated and thought that his actions were working towards stoping/controlling the Reapers and we know that the Reapers just adapted TIMs core beliefs and aptitude to use him to their advantage. So what if the Reapers have just twisted Shepard's desire to stop them to their own advantage by getting him to  gift wrap the galactic fleet for them so they can destroy the fleets collective asses in one foul swoop? This could also explain why Starbinger seems so disappointed when Shepard does a ******-poor job of uniting everyone... Anyway I'm not personally sold on the idea and I'm sure it has some plot holes in it but I just thought I'd offer it up for debate.

Modifié par Salient Archer, 18 juin 2012 - 02:14 .

[byne]

Andromidius wrote...

Sero303 wrote...

And before anyone replies with "its was cheaper not to put them into the game" yes we are all aware that bioware/EA is a corporation(s) and earning profits is their #1 goal... my question is about their "artisitic integrity" in this matter.

I would completely disregard the notion of laziness, they've already designed the other Reaper models.  Maybe not fully animated and textured, but regardless it wouldn't be lazy to not include them.  It would have been lazy to use the existing models and downscale them instead of creating the Destroyers purely for ME3.

As for why they aren't in ME3, I'm not sure.  Maybe it was an artistic choice, so there's less doubt about the purpose of each Reaper and so Harbinger is most noticable as being 'different'.

Which then makes me wonder why Harbinger was left out of the story.  There's no way it wouldn't be involved, even in a relatively minor way, taunting Shepard along the way.

The weirdest part is, Harby's VA is credited as having done additional voices in the game. If you have him, why not use him for the part everyone identifies him with?

It'd be like hiring Mark Meer, but only having him voice vorcha, and giving maleshep no lines.

Plus, what additional voices did Harby's VA do, exactly? Havent some people claimed they could hear Harby's voice when godchild spoke? 

[Rifneno]

Hmm. Going back to a theory from the other day, about the thorian possibly being a prototype Prothean Reaper? Now that I think about it... the Inusannon. That was the race that inhabited Ilos a cycle before the Protheans and whose statues we see. The statues have that same weird "puking tentacles out of their mouths" look as the thorian does. If the human proto-reaper looked like a giant terminator then I could see the Inusannon proto-reaper looking like the thorian. Still doesn't explain why it was on Feros though and didn't seem to bear any loyalty toward the Reapers and visa versa.

[LazyTechGuy]

Auralius Carolus wrote...

The child gravitates to the new form, but rejects the old- a telling symbolism. Also, there is a hint of contemporary horror pop culture there: instead of a harold of impending doom, the doppleganger is a sinister force that has the potential to destroy it's look alike and replace him/her.

Hmmm. Sounds like Matriarch Benezia's description of indoctrination and how it feels to be trapped in your own mind, "beating upon the glass as your hands torture and murder..."

Modifié par LazyTechGuy, 18 juin 2012 - 02:21 .

[Turbo_J]

Salient Archer wrote...

Had a weird thought that I haven't fully formed but need to express before I forget it... Anyway; as we know Indoctrination is essentially inception; it's having somebody else's idea (in this case the Reapers) planted so deeply inside your psyche that you truly believe it to be your own. So what if the uniting of the galactic fleet and hence galaxy was a Reaper concept planted inside Shepard's head? We know that TIM was indoctrinated and thought that his actions were working towards stoping/controlling the Reapers and we know that the Reapers just adapted TIMs core beliefs and aptitude to use him to their advantage. So what if the Reapers have just twisted Shepard's desire to stop them to their own advantage by getting him to  gift wrap the galactic fleet for them so they can destroy the fleets collective asses in one foul swoop? This could also explain why Starbinger seems so disappointed when Shepard does a ******-poor job of uniting everyone... Anyway I'm not personally sold on the idea and I'm sure it has some plot holes in it but I just thought I'd offer it up for debate.

Yep. Thought of this and mentioned it before. It's a kill zone trap. It's also just like the other planted suggestions.

Crucible: planted in the heads of Hackett and perhaps Liara, though Liara got the information from Hackett. The problem there is she is a little too willing to go along with it.

Can't beat the Reapers conventionally: This is another idea that is HAMMERED into both Shepard and the player from multiple sources. Hackett, Anderson, Javik, Vendetta (who I think was hacked even before Shep showed up on Thessia.)

[Turbo_J]

LazyTechGuy wrote...

Auralius Carolus wrote...

The child gravitates to the new form, but rejects the old- a telling symbolism. Also, there is a hint of contemporary horror pop culture there: instead of a harold of impending doom, the doppleganger is a sinister force that has the potential to destroy it's look alike and replace him/her.

Hmmm. Sounds like Matriarch Benezia's description of indoctrination and how it feels to be trapped in your own mind, "beating upon the glass as your hands torture and murder..."

Regarding the bold text - this is as clear an explanation as you can get to what will happen to Shepard if he sides with Little-Boy-Harbinger.

[Andromidius]

byne wrote...

It'd be like hiring Mark Meer, but only having him voice vorcha, and giving maleshep no lines.

Indeed.  Though is it weird I think Shepard is actually his weakest performance?  His Vorcha voice is amazing.