55528 réponses à ce sujet

[HellishFiend]

Eryri wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

Ok, for anyone curious, or doubting the validity of the intentional nature of the infrasound, I direct you to this post:

http://social.biowar...32/838#12618332 

Specifically, the file he put up for download:

http://www.sendspace...om/file/unhhv1 

TSA not only discovered the infrasound, but went a step further and furnished undeniable proof that the sounds are intentional by isolating and pitch shifting them upwards. When pitch shifted, the sounds become playable by speakers and audible by human ears. Think of it like using Autotune on a bad singer. Normally you wouldnt listen to them, but Autotune makes it to where you can hear it without becoming nauseated (usually). They are clearly engineered sounds, rather than unintentional noise bleeding down the spectrum. 

In my opinion, this is the most tangible, un-debunkable evidence that we've uncovered to date. It cant be dismissed.

First of all brilliant video! I can't even imagine the technical skill and dedication needed to look into this kind of thing.

Apologies if you've already adressed this, but just to play devil's advocate for a minute, have you analysed any of the "benign" scenes in the game, without any indoctrination related weirdness or Reapers, to check that they don't have any infra-sound?

My inner science geek is interested in things like falsifiable hypothesese. If there are any instances of creepy infrasound being there for no thematic reason it could just be some weird glitch with the sound software. But if there are absolutely no instances of infrasound where it shouldn't be, then it makes your proof all the more solid.

Thanks!

Good question, and yes, the presence of infrasound seems to be unique to the scenes and situations where Bioware wants to convey either an indoctrination signal, or the presence of an indoctrinated character (maybe both?). I attempted to kill two birds with one stone by showing the infrasound when Coats is around, and also showing that it goes away entirely when he leaves. And you can be sure that isnt the only part of the game where infrasound is absent....

Modifié par HellishFiend, 18 juin 2012 - 05:50 .

[BatmanTurian]

EpyonX3 wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

when he says retreat, that's the dream.

at face value, Harbinger already has Shepard under his thumb-er appendage, why would Coates not pull back so Harbinger can mindrape the galaxy's savior?

I disagree. If the goal of the Reapers is to have the beam be an indoctrination device, then the more people around it the better. Shepard being there shouldn't make a difference. Unless you're saying that reapers can only inodctrinate one person at a time.

I'm saying Shepard is the only one that matters. Shepard can turn the war around on a dime if he signs up for the Reapers. Besides the loss of morale and a leader who is a pillar of strength, " a bloody icon" as Miranda puts it so well, Shepard can decimate his own side easily. The war would be lost right then. It would be the turning point for the extinction of the advanced organics of the galaxy.

[EpyonX3]

HellishFiend wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

We may different in opinions about what prolonged exposure to reaper tech means so I'm not going to get into that.

I'm pretty sure if they were seeing things, the crew would tell someone, like Chakwas if she's stationed there. They would probably start behaving oddly enough so that Traynor would advise you to check up on them. Shepard also tells Garrus about the child, but he doesn't refer to him a a ghost so how would Garrus know that Shepard is seeing things too?

EDIT: Also Indoctrination is talked about a lot on the Normandy. I'm sure the crew is well educated on the effects and symptoms of indoctrination at this point.

Epyon, not to be rude, but that is pretty ironic of you to cite that as a counter-point. Considering we as the players are also well educated on the effects and symptoms of indoctrination, yet there are still so many, including yourself, that doubt the validity of IT. 

Ok I'm missing something here. Is the crew talking about Indoctrination evidence for IT?

No, youre basically trying to use "well, the crew knows about indoctrination symptoms, so they would know if they were indoctrinated!" as a counterpoint.

Not only is that completely illogical since the whole point of subtle indoctrination is that you dont know its happening, but we, as the players, also know about the symptoms and effects of indoctrination, and we see them everywhere throughout ME3. 

In my opinion, your doubt of IT, considering how much you know about indoctrination, simply parallels the same denial that the indoctrinated characters display in the games. 

Ahh, then no that's not what I mean.

I'm not saying that the person that's indoctrinated would come forward, I mean the crew that isn't would bring it to your attention. For example, Vega notices Ashley's spooked face, asks her if she's ok and she goes on to explain how she's ok just stressed. A subtle hint like that would get me on Ashley's case right away as that might be a symptom of Indoctrination.

Or finding a random crew member leaking information to an unkown source which could have been cerberus or other indoctrinated forces. Having Javik on the crew makes it even stranger that no one picks up on Shepard's or anyone else's indoctrination process.

You see where I'm going with this?

[EpyonX3]

BatmanTurian wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

when he says retreat, that's the dream.

at face value, Harbinger already has Shepard under his thumb-er appendage, why would Coates not pull back so Harbinger can mindrape the galaxy's savior?

I disagree. If the goal of the Reapers is to have the beam be an indoctrination device, then the more people around it the better. Shepard being there shouldn't make a difference. Unless you're saying that reapers can only inodctrinate one person at a time.

I'm saying Shepard is the only one that matters. Shepard can turn the war around on a dime if he signs up for the Reapers. Besides the loss of morale and a leader who is a pillar of strength, " a bloody icon" as Miranda puts it so well, Shepard can decimate his own side easily. The war would be lost right then. It would be the turning point for the extinction of the advanced organics of the galaxy.

You have that same effect if he's dead and killed by the reapers. Why was Joker fleeing from earth with your entire crew?

[EpyonX3]

BatmanTurian wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

We may different in opinions about what prolonged exposure to reaper tech means so I'm not going to get into that.

I'm pretty sure if they were seeing things, the crew would tell someone, like Chakwas if she's stationed there. They would probably start behaving oddly enough so that Traynor would advise you to check up on them. Shepard also tells Garrus about the child, but he doesn't refer to him a a ghost so how would Garrus know that Shepard is seeing things too?

EDIT: Also Indoctrination is talked about a lot on the Normandy. I'm sure the crew is well educated on the effects and symptoms of indoctrination at this point.

Epyon, not to be rude, but that is pretty ironic of you to cite that as a counter-point. Considering we as the players are also well educated on the effects and symptoms of indoctrination, yet there are still so many, including yourself, that doubt the validity of IT. 

Ok I'm missing something here. Is the crew talking about Indoctrination evidence for IT?

No, youre basically trying to use "well, the crew knows about indoctrination symptoms, so they would know if they were indoctrinated!" as a counterpoint.

Not only is that completely illogical since the whole point of subtle indoctrination is that you dont know its happening, but we, as the players, also know about the symptoms and effects of indoctrination, and we see them everywhere throughout ME3. 

In my opinion, your doubt of IT, considering how much you know about indoctrination, simply parallels the same denial that the indoctrinated characters display in the games. 

EpyonX3: " NO! I'm in control! "

okay, sure you are...

"NO! NO! The two of you are so self rightous. You think debating powers like these come easy? There are sacrifices!"

[BatmanTurian]

EpyonX3 wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

We may different in opinions about what prolonged exposure to reaper tech means so I'm not going to get into that.

I'm pretty sure if they were seeing things, the crew would tell someone, like Chakwas if she's stationed there. They would probably start behaving oddly enough so that Traynor would advise you to check up on them. Shepard also tells Garrus about the child, but he doesn't refer to him a a ghost so how would Garrus know that Shepard is seeing things too?

EDIT: Also Indoctrination is talked about a lot on the Normandy. I'm sure the crew is well educated on the effects and symptoms of indoctrination at this point.

Epyon, not to be rude, but that is pretty ironic of you to cite that as a counter-point. Considering we as the players are also well educated on the effects and symptoms of indoctrination, yet there are still so many, including yourself, that doubt the validity of IT. 

Ok I'm missing something here. Is the crew talking about Indoctrination evidence for IT?

No, youre basically trying to use "well, the crew knows about indoctrination symptoms, so they would know if they were indoctrinated!" as a counterpoint.

Not only is that completely illogical since the whole point of subtle indoctrination is that you dont know its happening, but we, as the players, also know about the symptoms and effects of indoctrination, and we see them everywhere throughout ME3. 

In my opinion, your doubt of IT, considering how much you know about indoctrination, simply parallels the same denial that the indoctrinated characters display in the games. 

Ahh, then no that's not what I mean.

I'm not saying that the person that's indoctrinated would come forward, I mean the crew that isn't would bring it to your attention. For example, Vega notices Ashley's spooked face, asks her if she's ok and she goes on to explain how she's ok just stressed. A subtle hint like that would get me on Ashley's case right away as that might be a symptom of Indoctrination.

Or finding a random crew member leaking information to an unkown source which could have been cerberus or other indoctrinated forces. Having Javik on the crew makes it even stranger that no one picks up on Shepard's or anyone else's indoctrination process.

You see where I'm going with this?

it's too subtle when Javik reads her. Obviously Protheans themselves can't tell if their own race was indoctrinated through their senses or they wouldn't have needed VIs. Also, certain crewmembers that you bring along with you to Chronos mention around the proto reaper's remains that they feel they are being watched etc. Some of them are partially indoctrinated as well. But Shepard is the Reaper's focus, not only because he's the protagonist and it's natural for the antagonist to focus on the protagonist, but also because of how important Shepard is.

[D.Sharrah]

HellishFiend wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

It can't be, but you know people will try. Or just outright dismiss it out of spite.

At the risk of sounding overly harsh, I dont really care about those people. They arent going to change the contents of the EC with pure seething malice and spite. My video, and the evidence it presents, is aimed at people on the fence, or IT believers that dont know what infrasound is or how it applies. Those are the people I care about. 

Hellish...

I had  a chance to think more about the video today...and I did have a question if you don't mind?  Why didn't you include more in the video about the discussion b/w real world implications of infrasound and the game mechanics of indoctrination?

I know that you included the brief bit on infrasound being reported to cause people to "being watched" during paranormal investigations...but wasn't there more than that?

[Earthborn_Shepard]

I just finally watched the video with the.. uh.. forgot the word.. the sounds you can't hear? Starts with i?

Anyway, that video, and I felt like my chest was being pressed together.. creepy. Did anyone else feel that? That kind of sound IS supposed to make you feel uneasy though.

[HellishFiend]

EpyonX3 wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

We may different in opinions about what prolonged exposure to reaper tech means so I'm not going to get into that.

I'm pretty sure if they were seeing things, the crew would tell someone, like Chakwas if she's stationed there. They would probably start behaving oddly enough so that Traynor would advise you to check up on them. Shepard also tells Garrus about the child, but he doesn't refer to him a a ghost so how would Garrus know that Shepard is seeing things too?

EDIT: Also Indoctrination is talked about a lot on the Normandy. I'm sure the crew is well educated on the effects and symptoms of indoctrination at this point.

Epyon, not to be rude, but that is pretty ironic of you to cite that as a counter-point. Considering we as the players are also well educated on the effects and symptoms of indoctrination, yet there are still so many, including yourself, that doubt the validity of IT. 

Ok I'm missing something here. Is the crew talking about Indoctrination evidence for IT?

No, youre basically trying to use "well, the crew knows about indoctrination symptoms, so they would know if they were indoctrinated!" as a counterpoint.

Not only is that completely illogical since the whole point of subtle indoctrination is that you dont know its happening, but we, as the players, also know about the symptoms and effects of indoctrination, and we see them everywhere throughout ME3. 

In my opinion, your doubt of IT, considering how much you know about indoctrination, simply parallels the same denial that the indoctrinated characters display in the games. 

Ahh, then no that's not what I mean.

I'm not saying that the person that's indoctrinated would come forward, I mean the crew that isn't would bring it to your attention. For example, Vega notices Ashley's spooked face, asks her if she's ok and she goes on to explain how she's ok just stressed. A subtle hint like that would get me on Ashley's case right away as that might be a symptom of Indoctrination.

Or finding a random crew member leaking information to an unkown source which could have been cerberus or other indoctrinated forces. Having Javik on the crew makes it even stranger that no one picks up on Shepard's or anyone else's indoctrination process.

You see where I'm going with this?

To the bolded statements: False, Horrible idea, and wouldnt happen. In that order.

To elaborate on the first one, the crew that isnt indoctrinated wouldnt bring anything to anyone's attention, because the people being affected by subtle indoctrination dont usually display outward symptoms. Even if they do, they are easily dismissable *coughPTSDcough*.

Second, that attitude would just result in a massive witch hunt that would destroy any chance for cohesive action and would likely end in a critical mission failure on principle alone.

Third, that also wouldnt happen, because subtle indoctrination doesnt cause the victim to overtly and blatantly aid the enemy, at least at first. Once the indoctrination progresses to the extent where the victim is ready to openly aid the Reapers, their belief is so strong that they are extremely careful not to blow their cover. Kenson, anyone?

So, either you dont know as much about indoctrination as I gave you credit for, or I stand by my statement that youre in denial.... :innocent:

[estebanus]

Finally finished nuking those profiles. Now I can concentrate on this!

[BatmanTurian]

EpyonX3 wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

when he says retreat, that's the dream.

at face value, Harbinger already has Shepard under his thumb-er appendage, why would Coates not pull back so Harbinger can mindrape the galaxy's savior?

I disagree. If the goal of the Reapers is to have the beam be an indoctrination device, then the more people around it the better. Shepard being there shouldn't make a difference. Unless you're saying that reapers can only inodctrinate one person at a time.

I'm saying Shepard is the only one that matters. Shepard can turn the war around on a dime if he signs up for the Reapers. Besides the loss of morale and a leader who is a pillar of strength, " a bloody icon" as Miranda puts it so well, Shepard can decimate his own side easily. The war would be lost right then. It would be the turning point for the extinction of the advanced organics of the galaxy.

You have that same effect if he's dead and killed by the reapers. Why was Joker fleeing from earth with your entire crew?

If shepard is dead, he becomes a martyr. If Shepard is an agent like Saren, the galaxy is doomed. Look at all of the good things Shepard has accomplished for the galaxy. Now imagine if Shepard had used that unique ability to change civilization for the evil machinations of the Reapers. Shepard is more valuable alive than dead.

[HellishFiend]

Earthborn_Shepard wrote...

I just finally watched the video with the.. uh.. forgot the word.. the sounds you can't hear? Starts with i?

Anyway, that video, and I felt like my chest was being pressed together.. creepy. Did anyone else feel that? That kind of sound IS supposed to make you feel uneasy though.

Oh yes, I definitely felt that. The subwoofer I have is designed to reproduce audio as accurately as possible. In other words, it sounds just like the developer wants it to. And they want you to feel crushed by the sheer sound pressure of the bass in several parts of the game, including the dreams and hades cannon sequence, most notably. 

[HellishFiend]

D.Sharrah wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

It can't be, but you know people will try. Or just outright dismiss it out of spite.

At the risk of sounding overly harsh, I dont really care about those people. They arent going to change the contents of the EC with pure seething malice and spite. My video, and the evidence it presents, is aimed at people on the fence, or IT believers that dont know what infrasound is or how it applies. Those are the people I care about. 

Hellish...

I had  a chance to think more about the video today...and I did have a question if you don't mind?  Why didn't you include more in the video about the discussion b/w real world implications of infrasound and the game mechanics of indoctrination?

I know that you included the brief bit on infrasound being reported to cause people to "being watched" during paranormal investigations...but wasn't there more than that?

Directing is a fine art. My intention was to convey the evidence in the most compelling, dramatic fashion possible. To that end, I followed a traditional exposition -> rising action -> climax -> conclusion arc. I had to omit some things I would have normally put in if it was an ordinary exposition-only analysis video. Based on the results, I think I made the right choice in the direction I took. :happy:

To clarify, your suggestion would have overly extended the exposition phase, which would put the video at risk of losing the audience's attention before the rising action. 

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

EpyonX3 wrote...

Ahh, then no that's not what I mean.

I'm not saying that the person that's indoctrinated would come forward, I mean the crew that isn't would bring it to your attention. For example, Vega notices Ashley's spooked face, asks her if she's ok and she goes on to explain how she's ok just stressed. A subtle hint like that would get me on Ashley's case right away as that might be a symptom of Indoctrination.

Or finding a random crew member leaking information to an unkown source which could have been cerberus or other indoctrinated forces. Having Javik on the crew makes it even stranger that no one picks up on Shepard's or anyone else's indoctrination process.

You see where I'm going with this?

Javik dident pick up on the Indoctrination of his entire crew for all we know and Ashley herself says the line "How do you fight something which worms its way into your head?" It is pretty clear that Indoctrination is a foe no one really knows how to fight.

And as I allready said there is no shadow of doubt Shepard has the most exposure to Reaper tech in the crew. Those two days near Object Rho alone is more than most people we know of.

Most Indoctrination symptoms can be attributed to other causes. Bad dreams, headaches, hearing sounds? Who the hell would think Indoctrination as the first thing when hearing that, especially in the middle of a war, and even more so it is symptoms mostly centered on the person. If he/she dosent say a word of it no one is gonna know.

Every person we see or are told was Indoctrinated acts completely like the person he was before Indoctrination right up until the moment they reveal their true face. Doctor Amanda kenson was fully Indoctrinated when you get her out of the Batarian prison, but never shows any signs or even hints of thise before she reveals it full fledged standing before Object Rho.

That is what Indoctrination is, subtle and almost completely undetectable until the person him or herslef reveals their twisted alliance to the Reapers.

[HellishFiend]

EpyonX3 wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

EpyonX3: " NO! I'm in control! "

okay, sure you are...

"NO! NO! The two of you are so self rightous. You think debating powers like these come easy? There are sacrifices!"

LOL! This made me laugh!  I do love a good mimic chain. 

[EpyonX3]

BatmanTurian wrote...

it's too subtle when Javik reads her. Obviously Protheans themselves can't tell if their own race was indoctrinated through their senses or they wouldn't have needed VIs. Also, certain crewmembers that you bring along with you to Chronos mention around the proto reaper's remains that they feel they are being watched etc. Some of them are partially indoctrinated as well. But Shepard is the Reaper's focus, not only because he's the protagonist and it's natural for the antagonist to focus on the protagonist, but also because of how important Shepard is.

It's not about detecting indoctrination itself, but studying the changes in behavior in the people around you. Look at the example of the derelect reaper scientists. Some started behaving odd before others and the other picked up on it. Unfortunately for them, they didn't understand what was happening until it was too late.

Behaving like that on the Normandy would get you thrown out of the airlock.

Yes I remember that. Did you know that early on when you attack the cerberus research lab to collect reaper tech, if you take Garrus, Garrus says, "Yup that's Reaper tech my brain hurts just looking at it." Does that mean that Garrus is now in the process of indoctrination and should be dreaming weird things and becoming paranoid?

[EpyonX3]

HellishFiend wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

EpyonX3: " NO! I'm in control! "

okay, sure you are...

"NO! NO! The two of you are so self rightous. You think debating powers like these come easy? There are sacrifices!"

LOL! This made me laugh!  I do love a good mimic chain. 

I'm pleased to assist [/EDI]

[Macross]

So. I've been on a plane to the other side of the world for the past few days. Any news pieces of news or evidence?

[EpyonX3]

BatmanTurian wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

when he says retreat, that's the dream.

at face value, Harbinger already has Shepard under his thumb-er appendage, why would Coates not pull back so Harbinger can mindrape the galaxy's savior?

I disagree. If the goal of the Reapers is to have the beam be an indoctrination device, then the more people around it the better. Shepard being there shouldn't make a difference. Unless you're saying that reapers can only inodctrinate one person at a time.

I'm saying Shepard is the only one that matters. Shepard can turn the war around on a dime if he signs up for the Reapers. Besides the loss of morale and a leader who is a pillar of strength, " a bloody icon" as Miranda puts it so well, Shepard can decimate his own side easily. The war would be lost right then. It would be the turning point for the extinction of the advanced organics of the galaxy.

You have that same effect if he's dead and killed by the reapers. Why was Joker fleeing from earth with your entire crew?

If shepard is dead, he becomes a martyr. If Shepard is an agent like Saren, the galaxy is doomed. Look at all of the good things Shepard has accomplished for the galaxy. Now imagine if Shepard had used that unique ability to change civilization for the evil machinations of the Reapers. Shepard is more valuable alive than dead.

The problem is that the galaxy threw the bulk of its forces at earth. It can be argued that the war would end there if the crucible never fires. If the fleets are crushed here, then the galaxy is already done for whether shepard is indoctrinated or not.

[FFZero]

Finally finished looking through the ardat yakshi mission files and it would probably be easier to list which files DON’T have infra sound. It’s all over the place and I’ve got a headache to prove it...

Also found something else that’s interesting, in one of the background music files I’m pretty sure I can hear the music that plays at the end when we see star brat, just at a slightly lower volume.

[HellishFiend]

Macross wrote...

So. I've been on a plane to the other side of the world for the past few days. Any news pieces of news or evidence?

The Sounds of Possession

[BatmanTurian]

EpyonX3 wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

it's too subtle when Javik reads her. Obviously Protheans themselves can't tell if their own race was indoctrinated through their senses or they wouldn't have needed VIs. Also, certain crewmembers that you bring along with you to Chronos mention around the proto reaper's remains that they feel they are being watched etc. Some of them are partially indoctrinated as well. But Shepard is the Reaper's focus, not only because he's the protagonist and it's natural for the antagonist to focus on the protagonist, but also because of how important Shepard is.

It's not about detecting indoctrination itself, but studying the changes in behavior in the people around you. Look at the example of the derelect reaper scientists. Some started behaving odd before others and the other picked up on it. Unfortunately for them, they didn't understand what was happening until it was too late.

Behaving like that on the Normandy would get you thrown out of the airlock.

Yes I remember that. Did you know that early on when you attack the cerberus research lab to collect reaper tech, if you take Garrus, Garrus says, "Yup that's Reaper tech my brain hurts just looking at it." Does that mean that Garrus is now in the process of indoctrination and should be dreaming weird things and becoming paranoid?

It's not an on/off thing. Indoctrination is a slow process for a useful thrall. Headaches are a symptom of the early process.

[FellishBeast]

BatmanTurian wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

We may different in opinions about what prolonged exposure to reaper tech means so I'm not going to get into that.

I'm pretty sure if they were seeing things, the crew would tell someone, like Chakwas if she's stationed there. They would probably start behaving oddly enough so that Traynor would advise you to check up on them. Shepard also tells Garrus about the child, but he doesn't refer to him a a ghost so how would Garrus know that Shepard is seeing things too?

EDIT: Also Indoctrination is talked about a lot on the Normandy. I'm sure the crew is well educated on the effects and symptoms of indoctrination at this point.

Epyon, not to be rude, but that is pretty ironic of you to cite that as a counter-point. Considering we as the players are also well educated on the effects and symptoms of indoctrination, yet there are still so many, including yourself, that doubt the validity of IT. 

Ok I'm missing something here. Is the crew talking about Indoctrination evidence for IT?

No, youre basically trying to use "well, the crew knows about indoctrination symptoms, so they would know if they were indoctrinated!" as a counterpoint.

Not only is that completely illogical since the whole point of subtle indoctrination is that you dont know its happening, but we, as the players, also know about the symptoms and effects of indoctrination, and we see them everywhere throughout ME3. 

In my opinion, your doubt of IT, considering how much you know about indoctrination, simply parallels the same denial that the indoctrinated characters display in the games. 

Ahh, then no that's not what I mean.

I'm not saying that the person that's indoctrinated would come forward, I mean the crew that isn't would bring it to your attention. For example, Vega notices Ashley's spooked face, asks her if she's ok and she goes on to explain how she's ok just stressed. A subtle hint like that would get me on Ashley's case right away as that might be a symptom of Indoctrination.

Or finding a random crew member leaking information to an unkown source which could have been cerberus or other indoctrinated forces. Having Javik on the crew makes it even stranger that no one picks up on Shepard's or anyone else's indoctrination process.

You see where I'm going with this?

it's too subtle when Javik reads her. Obviously Protheans themselves can't tell if their own race was indoctrinated through their senses or they wouldn't have needed VIs. Also, certain crewmembers that you bring along with you to Chronos mention around the proto reaper's remains that they feel they are being watched etc. Some of them are partially indoctrinated as well. But Shepard is the Reaper's focus, not only because he's the protagonist and it's natural for the antagonist to focus on the protagonist, but also because of how important Shepard is.

Just to further counter epyon's point...if I'm not mistaken...didn't both Saren and the Illusive man STUDY indoctrination like crazy? They observed it, did it to other people, all of that good stuff. They probably knew the most about indoctrination of anyone, save the Reapers, and THEY were indoctrinated without realizing.

Case closed. 

[BatmanTurian]

EpyonX3 wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

when he says retreat, that's the dream.

at face value, Harbinger already has Shepard under his thumb-er appendage, why would Coates not pull back so Harbinger can mindrape the galaxy's savior?

I disagree. If the goal of the Reapers is to have the beam be an indoctrination device, then the more people around it the better. Shepard being there shouldn't make a difference. Unless you're saying that reapers can only inodctrinate one person at a time.

I'm saying Shepard is the only one that matters. Shepard can turn the war around on a dime if he signs up for the Reapers. Besides the loss of morale and a leader who is a pillar of strength, " a bloody icon" as Miranda puts it so well, Shepard can decimate his own side easily. The war would be lost right then. It would be the turning point for the extinction of the advanced organics of the galaxy.

You have that same effect if he's dead and killed by the reapers. Why was Joker fleeing from earth with your entire crew?

If shepard is dead, he becomes a martyr. If Shepard is an agent like Saren, the galaxy is doomed. Look at all of the good things Shepard has accomplished for the galaxy. Now imagine if Shepard had used that unique ability to change civilization for the evil machinations of the Reapers. Shepard is more valuable alive than dead.

The problem is that the galaxy threw the bulk of its forces at earth. It can be argued that the war would end there if the crucible never fires. If the fleets are crushed here, then the galaxy is already done for whether shepard is indoctrinated or not.

Exactly, and Shepard is the person around which everything pivots. Shepard falls, the galaxy falls. If the best the galaxy can offer can fall to the reapers, what hope does anyone else have? Without hope, we have nothing.

Modifié par BatmanTurian, 18 juin 2012 - 06:10 .

[Humakt83]

After exiting the turret:



Note that I tried the same sections with high ems Engineer (Renegade male) and Vanguard (Paragon female), no flashes.

Image is with low ems (1800 or so) Infiltrator.

Modifié par Humakt83, 18 juin 2012 - 06:14 .