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[Big Bad]

I have no idea how onerous trawling through sound files is, but it would be really cool if we could create a "sonic profile" of as much of the game as possible, showing precisely when infrasound is and is not present. The pattern is hidden in the data!

[Arashi08]

EpyonX3 wrote...

Arashi08 wrote...


1) Tali as an admiral adds a point to the point system that determines whether it is possible to broker peace between quarians and geth or not.  the wiki page elaborates on how it is a contributing factor.

2) Liara is STILL the Shadow Broker.  Did you not go into her office and read her messages? Or speak to Barla Von when prompted? She still has her information newtork, her network of agents, her connections.   The only thing she doesn't have is her ship, which she destroyed to stop TIM from getting it.  The essential equipment from her ship was put on the Normandy when she (and possibly Feron) loaded it onto their shuttle and escaped.

Those are the only points I wanted to bring up that were factually incorrect, the others are really based on speculation and personal interpretation.

Edited for grammar

1) Tali may be an admiral in one possible playthrough but she alone could never have gotten the Geth and Quarians to stand down. Getting geth and quarian peace without Tali being an Admiral makes Tali being an Admiral less influencial.

Also, she did little to stop the Quarians from attacking the Geth and trying to retake Rannoch. That whole situation played out the same no matter what.

2) I did say she isn't or at least she' not a very capable broker. Since she lost her ship and contact with most of her informants, her abilities to gather info isn't as good as it once was. TIM has a better network than Liara.

Irrelevant, I was merely pointing out that Tali as an Admiral DOES affect the possibility for peace, that is in-game.  doesn't matter whether she can or can't do it herself.  the fact remains her being an admiral adds to the point valus.  can you still get peace without it? yes, I was pointing out that her statusas an admiral always does contribute a point to it.

No matter how damaged her newtork is Liara is still the Shadow Broker.  she still has contacts and data feeds.  the war caused her damage but she never stopped being SB because of it.  and quite frankly I think that her ability to keep her info network in tact while losing her ship, alot of her resources and losing some of her agents due to reaper attacks, is more compelling evidence that she IS actually very capable.  she's working with more limited resources and yet she can still pull all this together.  so ya she lost hership and her info network is downgraded due to losing so much so now TIM has the advantage, but that doesn't mean she's any less capable.

[UrgentArchengel]

This infrasound evidence is getting really juicy, like delicious steak juicy. Can't wait to see what Bioware has in store for us. Argh, this thread is so full of win!

[D.Sharrah]

Humakt83 wrote...

Background noises/shouts on the run to the beam are interesting. They are very hard to make out because of the Harbingers constant shooting but I could swear one of them is:

"Take me! Take me!" - with voice like a child.

EDIT: Actually you can hear them in the menu without Harbinger noise.

=

[HellishFiend]

Xavendithas wrote...

I'm going to throw this out again, due to the infrasonic noise discussion.

How many of the scenes involving Shep/Anderson/Coates together have been analyzed, if any? A theory I've kicked out a couple times during the life of the thread is that Coates is a shared hallucination between Shep and Anderson. I'm very interested in what the infrasonic noise looks like in scenes involving all 3 of them.

I'd say its quite feasible that he's a shared hallucination. Just as feasible as any other possibility regarding him, I'd say. All of his scenes would continue to make sense in a shared hallucination context.

That being said, we currently only have 2 or 3 people that are actively analyzing sound files, and it can be a somewhat time consuming process. So the pace at which we can look into sound patterns to find evidence is limited. I'm sure we'll turn up more over time, though. 

[D.Sharrah]

Xavendithas wrote...

I'm going to throw this out again, due to the infrasonic noise discussion.

How many of the scenes involving Shep/Anderson/Coates together have been analyzed, if any? A theory I've kicked out a couple times during the life of the thread is that Coates is a shared hallucination between Shep and Anderson. I'm very interested in what the infrasonic noise looks like in scenes involving all 3 of them.

This is an excellent idea...the only problem that I have ever had with this idea is if Coates is a hallucination, then why doesn't any of the squadmates/etc. ever call Anderson and Shep out on it...not saying that they have to make a big deal of it, but a "Pull yourself together" comment from one of them would seem highly appropriate.

[TSA_383]

Lakeshow1986 wrote...

You
said there was no infrasound in the screams...what about ultrasonic
sound?  I made a post earlier, commmenting that the infrsound evidence
made me wonder what else about reaper indoctrination can we tease out of
the game files...there is no way that we can look at EMF's, but we
could look at ultrasonic sound...I was just looking up sonic weaponry
(http://en.wikipedia..../Sonic_weaponry )...there seems to be some
overlap w/the infrasound effects...

It's not possible to put in frequencies above the nyquist frequency (wikipedia it ).

So for the sounds in ME3, which are stored at 24/32Khz mostly, the highest frequency possible (even with distortion) is 12Khz/16Khz.


This downsampling during recording is part of the reason why I tend to ignore everything <10Hz for the sake of speculation, since a combination of aliasing when downsampling the recordings (which will probably all have been done at 48Khz) and spectral leakage when analysing the specific frequencies mean that anything below this level is probably junk, unless it's very VERY loud

paxxton wrote...

Hey! I was rewatching The Sounds of Possession 
and got an idea. Did you notice that the angelic chorus is coupled with
bass during the last choice in the Catalyst Chamber? That connection
may prove that Shepard is being indoctrinated in both places.

I must have said this a dozen times by now:

Remember that music? It appears in three places:

-In the dream sequences.
-Immediately after Harbinger's laser strikes (during the fade-to-white).
-During the choice sequence.

Now what does that tell you?

HellishFiend wrote...

Any difference in the vent scene?
Like a Coats-style infrasound presence only when the kid is in
"proximity" to Shepard?

Not so far as I can tell, but then again if the kid isn't real there's nothing there to act as a "booster" for the indoctrination signal, right?

[HellishFiend]

Big Bad wrote...

I have no idea how onerous trawling through sound files is, but it would be really cool if we could create a "sonic profile" of as much of the game as possible, showing precisely when infrasound is and is not present. The pattern is hidden in the data!

In this case the pattern was quite literally hidden in the data, as there was no way to find it without the use of specialized hardware or software to reveal it. 

*looks at Bioware* Clever girl....

[HellishFiend]

TSA_383 wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

Any difference in the vent scene?
Like a Coats-style infrasound presence only when the kid is in
"proximity" to Shepard?

Not so far as I can tell, but then again if the kid isn't real there's nothing there to act as a "booster" for the indoctrination signal, right?

Quite right. Thanks for checking into it!

[draken-heart]

HellishFiend wrote...

Xavendithas wrote...

I'm going to throw this out again, due to the infrasonic noise discussion.

How many of the scenes involving Shep/Anderson/Coates together have been analyzed, if any? A theory I've kicked out a couple times during the life of the thread is that Coates is a shared hallucination between Shep and Anderson. I'm very interested in what the infrasonic noise looks like in scenes involving all 3 of them.

I'd say its quite feasible that he's a shared hallucination. Just as feasible as any other possibility regarding him, I'd say. All of his scenes would continue to make sense in a shared hallucination context.

That being said, we currently only have 2 or 3 people that are actively analyzing sound files, and it can be a somewhat time consuming process. So the pace at which we can look into sound patterns to find evidence is limited. I'm sure we'll turn up more over time, though. 

there have been cases of people hallucinating other people they knew in the past, so looking at it logically: if IT is not true, and Coates is a hallucination, then....

just saying, not trying to debunk IT

[BatmanTurian]

draken-heart wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

draken-heart wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

draken-heart wrote...

maybe it is but it does not prove that IT is actually how the game ends and OH ALL RIGHT INDOCTRINATION IS THE END OF THE GAME!!!!!! HAPPY!?!?!?!?/angry sarcasm

um wut. Can you try to be civil and use sentences that make sense? Maybe tell us who you're responding to?

Do you hear that hum?  Wait, no, that was just the sound of the entire point of IT soaring over his head. 

I have a feeling he is going to choose poorly. 

batman turian, srry about that

Hellish feind, is choosing destroy without believing IT choosing poorly, because i will choose destroy no matter what is presented. Katelynn (my vanguard femShep) sticks to her guns

and my logical explanation of the dreams:

• Setting-a park, simple enough
• shadows-Facless people and other things the reaper will destroy in the war, the things Shepard is fighting for
• Whispers-the people who have already sacrificed to stop the reapers/aid Shepard
• Child-the sacrifices that will have to be made to win the war. the burning is also a part of this
• the last dream-where Shepard is burning along with the child, that represents that if Shepard tries to save everyone, he/she will lose the war to the reapers.
• Sound effects-background noise, nothing indoctrination-y about that

now take a look at this explantion. i think i explained every part of the dream without IT


noSpin, i am saying that personally i cannot see Indoctrination as the main theme, sure it can be in the game in some form, but looking logically at it all, i can more reasonable explanations to the dreams, sacrififces and everything in the game without Indoctrination being the focus of it.

It sounds like you're pretty much almost there. You just have to take that next logical leap.
Good for you that you chose destroy.

and what is that batman Turian?
 

If you start looking at the game itself as an Unreliable Narrator and do some research into what slow Indoctrination by a Reaper does to a person, then you will begin to understand. Like I said, you're almost there. You just need to be a little open-minded and consider some of the observations we've made and how they fit the lore.

[Xavendithas]

HellishFiend wrote...

Xavendithas wrote...

I'm going to throw this out again, due to the infrasonic noise discussion.

How many of the scenes involving Shep/Anderson/Coates together have been analyzed, if any? A theory I've kicked out a couple times during the life of the thread is that Coates is a shared hallucination between Shep and Anderson. I'm very interested in what the infrasonic noise looks like in scenes involving all 3 of them.

I'd say its quite feasible that he's a shared hallucination. Just as feasible as any other possibility regarding him, I'd say. All of his scenes would continue to make sense in a shared hallucination context.

That being said, we currently only have 2 or 3 people that are actively analyzing sound files, and it can be a somewhat time consuming process. So the pace at which we can look into sound patterns to find evidence is limited. I'm sure we'll turn up more over time, though. 

I'm grinning from ear to ear right now, seriously. I thought I was taking crazy pills watching those walkthroughs of Priority: Earth trying to see if anyone ever responded to Coates besides Shep and Anderson. This discovery is huge!

[HellishFiend]

TSA_383 wrote...

paxxton wrote...

Hey! I was rewatching The Sounds of Possession 
and got an idea. Did you notice that the angelic chorus is coupled with
bass during the last choice in the Catalyst Chamber? That connection
may prove that Shepard is being indoctrinated in both places.

I must have said this a dozen times by now:

Remember that music? It appears in three places:

-In the dream sequences.
-Immediately after Harbinger's laser strikes (during the fade-to-white).
-During the choice sequence.

Now what does that tell you?

*smacks forehead* Of course, I remember you mentioning that now. I just heard it for myself the other day when recording footage, in fact. Cant hear it in the decision chamber unless you turn off the music and listen very closely....

[EpyonX3]

Arashi08 wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

Arashi08 wrote...


1) Tali as an admiral adds a point to the point system that determines whether it is possible to broker peace between quarians and geth or not.  the wiki page elaborates on how it is a contributing factor.

2) Liara is STILL the Shadow Broker.  Did you not go into her office and read her messages? Or speak to Barla Von when prompted? She still has her information newtork, her network of agents, her connections.   The only thing she doesn't have is her ship, which she destroyed to stop TIM from getting it.  The essential equipment from her ship was put on the Normandy when she (and possibly Feron) loaded it onto their shuttle and escaped.

Those are the only points I wanted to bring up that were factually incorrect, the others are really based on speculation and personal interpretation.

Edited for grammar

1) Tali may be an admiral in one possible playthrough but she alone could never have gotten the Geth and Quarians to stand down. Getting geth and quarian peace without Tali being an Admiral makes Tali being an Admiral less influencial.

Also, she did little to stop the Quarians from attacking the Geth and trying to retake Rannoch. That whole situation played out the same no matter what.

2) I did say she isn't or at least she' not a very capable broker. Since she lost her ship and contact with most of her informants, her abilities to gather info isn't as good as it once was. TIM has a better network than Liara.

Irrelevant, I was merely pointing out that Tali as an Admiral DOES affect the possibility for peace, that is in-game.  doesn't matter whether she can or can't do it herself.  the fact remains her being an admiral adds to the point valus.  can you still get peace without it? yes, I was pointing out that her statusas an admiral always does contribute a point to it.

No matter how damaged her newtork is Liara is still the Shadow Broker.  she still has contacts and data feeds.  the war caused her damage but she never stopped being SB because of it.  and quite frankly I think that her ability to keep her info network in tact while losing her ship, alot of her resources and losing some of her agents due to reaper attacks, is more compelling evidence that she IS actually very capable.  she's working with more limited resources and yet she can still pull all this together.  so ya she lost hership and her info network is downgraded due to losing so much so now TIM has the advantage, but that doesn't mean she's any less capable.

That may be but it has nothing to do with the point I was making. Tali being an admiral doesn't automatically make her a target for indoctrination, especially since it's obvious she has little power in decision making.

Ok I don't know why we're even arguing the point about Liara especially since I acknowledged, twice, that she's still Shadow Broker. But even she admits that her network isn't as good as it should be. Sure she's still going at it but TIM, who isn't the Shadow Broker, knew about Thessia before Liara. That alone speaks volumes as to how the shadow broker network is a shell of what it once was.

[TSA_383]

Big Bad wrote...

I have no idea how onerous trawling through sound files is, but it would be really cool if we could create a "sonic profile" of as much of the game as possible, showing precisely when infrasound is and is not present. The pattern is hidden in the data!

Great idea!
You first

Seriously, analysing sounds for something you can't actually hear is a total pain in the balls.

Xavendithas wrote...

I'm going to throw this out again, due to the infrasonic noise discussion.

How
many of the scenes involving Shep/Anderson/Coates together have been
analyzed, if any? A theory I've kicked out a couple times during the
life of the thread is that Coates is a shared hallucination between Shep
and Anderson. I'm very interested in what the infrasonic noise looks
like in scenes involving all 3 of them.

I don't still have the screenshots, but there's less in the low/infrasonic range in that scene - some stuff but nothing loud enough to be ruled out as not being due to aliasing/spectral leakage (see my previous nerdy post )

[HellishFiend]

BatmanTurian wrote...
 If you start looking at the game itself as an Unreliable Narrator and do some research into what slow Indoctrination by a Reaper does to a person, then you will begin to understand. Like I said, you're almost there. You just need to be a little open-minded and consider some of the observations we've made and how they fit the lore.

Keep in mind BT that people who settled on Destroy that are skeptical or unaware of IT are mostly in for a nice treat if IT turns out to be true. In fact, I could go so far as to say the reveal will be much more powerful for them than it will be for us. So I'm not really inclined to try very hard to rationalize IT to people who have already settled on what we perceive to be the right choice. 

[Xavendithas]

TSA_383 wrote...

I don't still have the screenshots, but there's less in the low/infrasonic range in that scene - some stuff but nothing loud enough to be ruled out as not being due to aliasing/spectral leakage (see my previous nerdy post )

Bummer. I'm still super excited about this though. lol

[BatmanTurian]

HellishFiend wrote...

TSA_383 wrote...

paxxton wrote...

Hey! I was rewatching The Sounds of Possession 
and got an idea. Did you notice that the angelic chorus is coupled with
bass during the last choice in the Catalyst Chamber? That connection
may prove that Shepard is being indoctrinated in both places.

I must have said this a dozen times by now:

Remember that music? It appears in three places:

-In the dream sequences.
-Immediately after Harbinger's laser strikes (during the fade-to-white).
-During the choice sequence.

Now what does that tell you?

*smacks forehead* Of course, I remember you mentioning that now. I just heard it for myself the other day when recording footage, in fact. Cant hear it in the decision chamber unless you turn off the music and listen very closely....

it reminds me of " superstitious awe" as in the religious kind.

[BatmanTurian]

HellishFiend wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...
 If you start looking at the game itself as an Unreliable Narrator and do some research into what slow Indoctrination by a Reaper does to a person, then you will begin to understand. Like I said, you're almost there. You just need to be a little open-minded and consider some of the observations we've made and how they fit the lore.

Keep in mind BT that people who settled on Destroy that are skeptical or unaware of IT are mostly in for a nice treat if IT turns out to be true. In fact, I could go so far as to say the reveal will be much more powerful for them than it will be for us. So I'm not really inclined to try very hard to rationalize IT to people who have already settled on what we perceive to be the right choice. 

I know, I'm just nudging him a little since he seems to be civil and willing to discuss it.

[Arashi08]

EpyonX3 wrote...

Arashi08 wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

Arashi08 wrote...


1) Tali as an admiral adds a point to the point system that determines whether it is possible to broker peace between quarians and geth or not.  the wiki page elaborates on how it is a contributing factor.

2) Liara is STILL the Shadow Broker.  Did you not go into her office and read her messages? Or speak to Barla Von when prompted? She still has her information newtork, her network of agents, her connections.   The only thing she doesn't have is her ship, which she destroyed to stop TIM from getting it.  The essential equipment from her ship was put on the Normandy when she (and possibly Feron) loaded it onto their shuttle and escaped.

Those are the only points I wanted to bring up that were factually incorrect, the others are really based on speculation and personal interpretation.

Edited for grammar

1) Tali may be an admiral in one possible playthrough but she alone could never have gotten the Geth and Quarians to stand down. Getting geth and quarian peace without Tali being an Admiral makes Tali being an Admiral less influencial.

Also, she did little to stop the Quarians from attacking the Geth and trying to retake Rannoch. That whole situation played out the same no matter what.

2) I did say she isn't or at least she' not a very capable broker. Since she lost her ship and contact with most of her informants, her abilities to gather info isn't as good as it once was. TIM has a better network than Liara.

Irrelevant, I was merely pointing out that Tali as an Admiral DOES affect the possibility for peace, that is in-game.  doesn't matter whether she can or can't do it herself.  the fact remains her being an admiral adds to the point valus.  can you still get peace without it? yes, I was pointing out that her statusas an admiral always does contribute a point to it.

No matter how damaged her newtork is Liara is still the Shadow Broker.  she still has contacts and data feeds.  the war caused her damage but she never stopped being SB because of it.  and quite frankly I think that her ability to keep her info network in tact while losing her ship, alot of her resources and losing some of her agents due to reaper attacks, is more compelling evidence that she IS actually very capable.  she's working with more limited resources and yet she can still pull all this together.  so ya she lost hership and her info network is downgraded due to losing so much so now TIM has the advantage, but that doesn't mean she's any less capable.

That may be but it has nothing to do with the point I was making. Tali being an admiral doesn't automatically make her a target for indoctrination, especially since it's obvious she has little power in decision making.

Ok I don't know why we're even arguing the point about Liara especially since I acknowledged, twice, that she's still Shadow Broker. But even she admits that her network isn't as good as it should be. Sure she's still going at it but TIM, who isn't the Shadow Broker, knew about Thessia before Liara. That alone speaks volumes as to how the shadow broker network is a shell of what it once was.

I was just pointing out the factual errors, the indoc target thing is irrelevant for me, but you said her admrial role didn't matter and that Liara isn't the shadow broker, I was pointing out that these were incorrect statements.

As for how her network is in comparison to TIM's it seels likely to me that...

Wait!

I've suddenly stopped caring...

[Humakt83]

I recommend playing the ending without music. Enter the beam, go through to the opening door. Return back to the corridor of bodies. And listen.

Odd noises.

Not to mention the thing I've said earlier. The place (beam) Shepard enters into the "valley of death" is humming..

Modifié par Humakt83, 18 juin 2012 - 08:30 .

[HellishFiend]

Arashi08 wrote...

I was just pointing out the factual errors, the indoc target thing is irrelevant for me, but you said her admrial role didn't matter and that Liara isn't the shadow broker, I was pointing out that these were incorrect statements.

As for how her network is in comparison to TIM's it seels likely to me that...

Wait!

I've suddenly stopped caring...

A Wild Apathy appears!

darn...hate it when that happens....

[draken-heart]

Batman Turian, i have read a bit into Indoctrination, and know what it does, but Shepard is remarkably strong-willed. it would remarkably difficult for one reaper to even plant the seed let alone actually indoctrinate Shepard as IT states, it is harbinger indoctrinating Shepard. unless i read that wrong, in order for it to happen over 1 year (Shepard was dead, so that may have reset the Indoctrination count for Shepard) Shepard would have to be around reaper stuff for quite awhile and have Every reaper in the Sol System going for him/her.

Modifié par draken-heart, 18 juin 2012 - 08:29 .

[EpyonX3]

Arashi08 wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

Arashi08 wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

Arashi08 wrote...


1) Tali as an admiral adds a point to the point system that determines whether it is possible to broker peace between quarians and geth or not.  the wiki page elaborates on how it is a contributing factor.

2) Liara is STILL the Shadow Broker.  Did you not go into her office and read her messages? Or speak to Barla Von when prompted? She still has her information newtork, her network of agents, her connections.   The only thing she doesn't have is her ship, which she destroyed to stop TIM from getting it.  The essential equipment from her ship was put on the Normandy when she (and possibly Feron) loaded it onto their shuttle and escaped.

Those are the only points I wanted to bring up that were factually incorrect, the others are really based on speculation and personal interpretation.

Edited for grammar

1) Tali may be an admiral in one possible playthrough but she alone could never have gotten the Geth and Quarians to stand down. Getting geth and quarian peace without Tali being an Admiral makes Tali being an Admiral less influencial.

Also, she did little to stop the Quarians from attacking the Geth and trying to retake Rannoch. That whole situation played out the same no matter what.

2) I did say she isn't or at least she' not a very capable broker. Since she lost her ship and contact with most of her informants, her abilities to gather info isn't as good as it once was. TIM has a better network than Liara.

Irrelevant, I was merely pointing out that Tali as an Admiral DOES affect the possibility for peace, that is in-game.  doesn't matter whether she can or can't do it herself.  the fact remains her being an admiral adds to the point valus.  can you still get peace without it? yes, I was pointing out that her statusas an admiral always does contribute a point to it.

No matter how damaged her newtork is Liara is still the Shadow Broker.  she still has contacts and data feeds.  the war caused her damage but she never stopped being SB because of it.  and quite frankly I think that her ability to keep her info network in tact while losing her ship, alot of her resources and losing some of her agents due to reaper attacks, is more compelling evidence that she IS actually very capable.  she's working with more limited resources and yet she can still pull all this together.  so ya she lost hership and her info network is downgraded due to losing so much so now TIM has the advantage, but that doesn't mean she's any less capable.

That may be but it has nothing to do with the point I was making. Tali being an admiral doesn't automatically make her a target for indoctrination, especially since it's obvious she has little power in decision making.

Ok I don't know why we're even arguing the point about Liara especially since I acknowledged, twice, that she's still Shadow Broker. But even she admits that her network isn't as good as it should be. Sure she's still going at it but TIM, who isn't the Shadow Broker, knew about Thessia before Liara. That alone speaks volumes as to how the shadow broker network is a shell of what it once was.

I was just pointing out the factual errors, the indoc target thing is irrelevant for me, but you said her admrial role didn't matter and that Liara isn't the shadow broker, I was pointing out that these were incorrect statements.

As for how her network is in comparison to TIM's it seels likely to me that...

Wait!

I've suddenly stopped caring...

I said Tali's Admiral position doesn't matter in the context of her being a target for indoctrination, not int eh context of the story mechanics. So yo were correcting me for something I wasn't talking about.

[HellishFiend]

Humakt83 wrote...

I recommend playing the ending without music. Enter the beam, go through to the opening door. Return back to the corridor of bodies. And listen.

Odd noises.

Damn, you're finding so many interesting things that I need to take notes to remember what to look into... 

Well done.