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Arashi08 wrote...
Ok...so I think I MAY have found a hole in the Sound of Possession evidence. the question is, do you all want to hear it? I figure anti-ITers may come forward with this eventually so I wondered if you wanted to hear this from someone who supports IT. granted it is a small hole, but I don't want to get yelled at for just posting it lol
Arashi08 wrote...
Ok...so I think I MAY have found a hole in the Sound of Possession evidence. the question is, do you all want to hear it? I figure anti-ITers may come forward with this eventually so I wondered if you wanted to hear this from someone who supports IT. granted it is a small hole, but I don't want to get yelled at for just posting it lol
Modifié par Arashi08, 19 juin 2012 - 03:47 .
HellishFiend wrote...
EpyonX3 wrote...
HellishFiend wrote...
paxxton wrote...
I agree. But indoctrination is not preventing him from receiving closure and vindication afterwards. Think what could happen if ME was real and you'll understand why it makes sense.HellishFiend wrote...
paxxton wrote...
Yes, it would be unpleasant but natural given what indoctrination is. I understand that Anderson in ME series represents "good" but still I can think of this "good" being polluted by "evil" because Anderson is only human. I want ME storytelling to present plausible situations given the lore and Reapers destroying (literally and figuratively) everything is definately something that can happen in that Universe.
Well, that may be your opinion, but no respectable author would ever do that, I assure you. Vindication and closure. Necessary for Anderson's archetype. End of story.
ME is not real. It's not a historical account. It's entertainment... It's not about what makes sense, it's about what entertains... not sure how else to explain it. I'm not a literature professor, I just enjoy it as a hobby. But I'm quite positive that I'm right on this. Yours is a very rare opinion on this issue.
I have to remember this quote for future discussion.
You can quote it out of context if you want, but it's not going to win you any arguments. But then again, you are a literalist, so context is ostensibly one of your weak areas.
late, nevermind
Modifié par HellishFiend, 19 juin 2012 - 03:48 .
TJBartlemus wrote...
BatmanTurian wrote...
It just means that the cybernetic eyes that Cerberus gave Shep are a different design. I don't think it means anything symbolically. That may be reaching.TJBartlemus wrote...
BatmanTurian wrote...
TJBartlemus wrote...
Could someone explain this...you know the eyes that glow are a sign of indoctrination at the end of the game and were both Saren/TIM's eyes?? Well when you play as renegade your scars become more pronounced and your eyes start to glow red, but they have the same design as TIM's eyes. What's up with that?
They don't have the same design
1) the triangle is upside down
2) there are no tiny reaper cables between the dots.
Okay so could that mean anything symbolically? You are the absolute opposite to TIM? But wait that would make no sense cause Renegade shep helps TIM....
Yeah, maybe I'm going crazy...just always thought something was up with the eye similarities...
Found another similarity on another playthrough of ME2. Whenever Harbinger took control of a collector the collector burned and when killed became ashes. So in the dreams when the child burns it's Harbinger trying to take control over you??
paxxton wrote...
Also, we can't analyze the frequency spectrum because Anderson always appears in scenes with Coats.HellishFiend wrote...
FellishBeast wrote...
paxxton wrote...
I think what you all trying to say is that the second mention of Anderson being born in London is a hidden message. The real Anderson is still there and tries to communicate with Shepard but the indoctrination doesn't allow him to speak straight so he has to resort to speaking figuratively.
I'm not quite sure what you mean here, but I do think that second mention is rather fishy. Like Manhattan's Chinatown fishy.
Basically what paxxton is saying is that we feel that it means something. And I agree with that. The possibilities are quite numerous. To start off, if we assume it means something, it could be the good part of Anderson trying to reach out, or a slip up of some kind from the new, Reaper doomsday device version of Anderson. From there, it completely branches out into a tree of different scenarios. And we have little evidence to use with which to narrow it down. The only thing we'd be able to do is list out all the possibilities. We'd never be able to single one out as the most likely.
HellishFiend wrote...
Also, I am disappoint in you guys. I fully expected one of you to come up with "HellishFiend has become a legend by ending the Literalist threat." by now
I kid, but hey, it came to mind, and I had to share since no one else did.
edit: yay, top of the page, here you go people!
Sounds of Possession
UrgentArchengel wrote...
TJBartlemus wrote...
Could someone explain this...you know the eyes that glow are a sign of indoctrination at the end of the game and were both Saren/TIM's eyes?? Well when you play as renegade your scars become more pronounced and your eyes start to glow red, but they have the same design as TIM's eyes. What's up with that?
The design is technically different. Renegade Shep's are upside down/inverted compared to Indoct. Eyes. Kinda reminds me of an inverted cross meaning evil. It's like Sheps's eyes do a total 180 for no reason unless he's been indoctrinated or something.
TJBartlemus wrote...
BatmanTurian wrote...
It just means that the cybernetic eyes that Cerberus gave Shep are a different design. I don't think it means anything symbolically. That may be reaching.TJBartlemus wrote...
BatmanTurian wrote...
TJBartlemus wrote...
Could someone explain this...you know the eyes that glow are a sign of indoctrination at the end of the game and were both Saren/TIM's eyes?? Well when you play as renegade your scars become more pronounced and your eyes start to glow red, but they have the same design as TIM's eyes. What's up with that?
They don't have the same design
1) the triangle is upside down
2) there are no tiny reaper cables between the dots.
Okay so could that mean anything symbolically? You are the absolute opposite to TIM? But wait that would make no sense cause Renegade shep helps TIM....
Yeah, maybe I'm going crazy...just always thought something was up with the eye similarities...
Found another similarity on another playthrough of ME2. Whenever Harbinger took control of a collector the collector burned and when killed became ashes. So in the dreams when the child burns it's Harbinger trying to take control over you??
BatmanTurian wrote...
HellishFiend wrote...
BatmanTurian wrote...
If he's been around Coats for a signifigant time or around people Coats also indoctrinated, then the Anderson we knew is already dead. If you think about it, the second we found the infrasonic signiture coming off Coats is the moment we should have known that Anderson was already gone. If you think it would ****** of the players... think how much it would ****** off Shepard (providing Shep doesn't become indoctrinated).
Yes, but this entire conversation is based around the point that Anderson's character needs vindication and closure in order to turncoat at the very end of the story. paxxton seems to be saying that he doesnt think that vindication and closure is necessary in order to use his character that way because it would make sense in the lore. That's narrative suicide.
I agree with you. Anderson should attempt to break free again at Shepard's bidding through renegade or paragon but instead of shooting himself, he should hand the gun to Shep and have Shep do it. He's the kind of person who would want a friend to do it instead of cowardly doing it himself like Saren. I think that moment, with Shep in tears having to shoot his mentor while Anderson is still lucid, would be very powerful.
Arashi08 wrote...
Like I said it was a small hole, but the video got me thinking about the final hours app and how it mentions Shepard's losing control, aka the player losing control of Shepard, which means that even before the game came out, they clearly had Indoctrination in mind when it came to the plot in ME3's story.
If this is the case, then could it also be possible that they left this infrasound at certain points in the game to affect the previous plot point they were planning to use in ME3 before they determined it was too difficult to implement the Shepard-losing-control part of the game. So it could be possible that they simply didn't remove the infrasound when they re-did the ending, especially since most speakers can't emit it and humans can't hear it anyway. why not just leave it in rather than re-record the sound/music?
like I said, it is a small, speculative hole, but I felt it needed to be addressed, so it could be properly discussed rather than being taken and ran with by a troll and/or anti-ITer
Arashi08 wrote...
Like I said it was a small hole, but the video got me thinking about the Final Hours app and how it mentions Shepard's losing control, aka the player losing control of Shepard, which means that even before the game came out, they clearly had Indoctrination in mind when it came to the plot in ME3's story.
If this is the case, then could it also be possible that they left this infrasound at certain points in the game to affect the previous plot point they were planning to use in ME3 before they determined it was too difficult to implement the Shepard-losing-control part of the game. So it could be possible that they simply didn't remove the infrasound when they re-did the ending, especially since most speakers can't emit it and humans can't hear it anyway. why not just leave it in rather than re-record the sound/music?
like I said, it is a small, speculative hole, but I felt it needed to be addressed, so it could be properly discussed rather than being taken and ran with by a troll and/or anti-ITer
EpyonX3 wrote...
prettz wrote...
question
is the Derelict Reaper aware or is it the equivalent of brain dead?
The Derelict reaper isn't brain dead but it's not aware. I would say it's in a coma.
Example: "A dead God can dream."
Arashi08 wrote...
Like I said it was a small hole, but the video got me thinking about the Final Hours app and how it mentions Shepard's losing control, aka the player losing control of Shepard, which means that even before the game came out, they clearly had Indoctrination in mind when it came to the plot in ME3's story.
If this is the case, then could it also be possible that they left this infrasound at certain points in the game to affect the previous plot point they were planning to use in ME3 before they determined it was too difficult to implement the Shepard-losing-control part of the game. So it could be possible that they simply didn't remove the infrasound when they re-did the ending, especially since most speakers can't emit it and humans can't hear it anyway. why not just leave it in rather than re-record the sound/music?
like I said, it is a small, speculative hole, but I felt it needed to be addressed, so it could be properly discussed rather than being taken and ran with by a troll and/or anti-ITer
Modifié par HellishFiend, 19 juin 2012 - 04:17 .
LOL. This is more or less what i meant.HellishFiend wrote...
paxxton wrote...
I know it's not real but it still can present believable ("real life") situations within the universum.
Anyway, it was your idea that Anderson might be indoctrinated. Now you say he shouldn't or I'm misunderstanding you?
Yes, I believe we are still at the misunderstanding stage.
I'll try using an example to see if that helps.
Remember when I said earlier how my video follows a standard narrative flow?
exposition -> rising action -> climax -> conclusion?
Well, characters need a narrative flow just as much as a plot or story. If you indoctrinate Anderson and have him betray Shepard at the end of the story without providing proper closure for his character, you are essentially left with this:
exposition -> rising action -> climax -> falling action
That is no way to end a story, and it is no way to end a character of Anderson's archetype. Look up archetype on wikipedia if you arent familiar with the term.
Essentially, for an overall story to be entertaining, it cant contain a character of Anderson's archetype that ends with falling action instead of conclusion.
Does this mean his character can NOT be indoctrinated? Not at all, it just means the author has to finesse or finagle (look up finagle too if you're not familiar with it) some form of closure so that you have:
exposition -> rising action -> climax -> falling action -> conclusion
In the case of ME3, Anderson being used to portray Shepard's willpower serves that purpose well. So like I said when I jumped into this discussion, since Anderson's closure has already been provided on-disc, they can safely indoctrinate him in the EC as long as they do it tastefully. If that closure was not on-disc, I would be very, very doubtful that they would do that to his character, despite the evidence we have to support the idea.
Does that do a better job of explaining?
I know you can't make Anderson turn on Shepard without logical reason and then you still need to vindicate him so that it is firmly established that Anderson was always good but the indoctrination was irresistible for a human being. That he was a victim and didn't want to do harm to Shepard. Of coursee, you can't end the story with Anderson being evil if he was always good.Modifié par paxxton, 19 juin 2012 - 03:58 .
Arashi08 wrote...
Like I said it was a small hole, but the video got me thinking about the Final Hours app and how it mentions Shepard's losing control, aka the player losing control of Shepard, which means that even before the game came out, they clearly had Indoctrination in mind when it came to the plot in ME3's story.
If this is the case, then could it also be possible that they left this infrasound at certain points in the game to affect the previous plot point they were planning to use in ME3 before they determined it was too difficult to implement the Shepard-losing-control part of the game. So it could be possible that they simply didn't remove the infrasound when they re-did the ending, especially since most speakers can't emit it and humans can't hear it anyway. why not just leave it in rather than re-record the sound/music?
like I said, it is a small, speculative hole, but I felt it needed to be addressed, so it could be properly discussed rather than being taken and ran with by a troll and/or anti-ITer
FellishBeast wrote...
BatmanTurian wrote...
HellishFiend wrote...
BatmanTurian wrote...
If he's been around Coats for a signifigant time or around people Coats also indoctrinated, then the Anderson we knew is already dead. If you think about it, the second we found the infrasonic signiture coming off Coats is the moment we should have known that Anderson was already gone. If you think it would ****** of the players... think how much it would ****** off Shepard (providing Shep doesn't become indoctrinated).
Yes, but this entire conversation is based around the point that Anderson's character needs vindication and closure in order to turncoat at the very end of the story. paxxton seems to be saying that he doesnt think that vindication and closure is necessary in order to use his character that way because it would make sense in the lore. That's narrative suicide.
I agree with you. Anderson should attempt to break free again at Shepard's bidding through renegade or paragon but instead of shooting himself, he should hand the gun to Shep and have Shep do it. He's the kind of person who would want a friend to do it instead of cowardly doing it himself like Saren. I think that moment, with Shep in tears having to shoot his mentor while Anderson is still lucid, would be very powerful.
That would be beautiful. Tragic and heartbreaking, but beautiful. I think the whole idea of Anderson being indoctrinated would be a really...poetic, I guess? I'm not sure what the word is I'm looking for (doesn't help that I'm watching South Park as I write this) but yeah. Something awesome.
Modifié par BleedingUranium, 19 juin 2012 - 03:58 .
FellishBeast wrote...
BatmanTurian wrote...
HellishFiend wrote...
BatmanTurian wrote...
If he's been around Coats for a signifigant time or around people Coats also indoctrinated, then the Anderson we knew is already dead. If you think about it, the second we found the infrasonic signiture coming off Coats is the moment we should have known that Anderson was already gone. If you think it would ****** of the players... think how much it would ****** off Shepard (providing Shep doesn't become indoctrinated).
Yes, but this entire conversation is based around the point that Anderson's character needs vindication and closure in order to turncoat at the very end of the story. paxxton seems to be saying that he doesnt think that vindication and closure is necessary in order to use his character that way because it would make sense in the lore. That's narrative suicide.
I agree with you. Anderson should attempt to break free again at Shepard's bidding through renegade or paragon but instead of shooting himself, he should hand the gun to Shep and have Shep do it. He's the kind of person who would want a friend to do it instead of cowardly doing it himself like Saren. I think that moment, with Shep in tears having to shoot his mentor while Anderson is still lucid, would be very powerful.
That would be beautiful. Tragic and heartbreaking, but beautiful. I think the whole idea of Anderson being indoctrinated would be a really...poetic, I guess? I'm not sure what the word is I'm looking for (doesn't help that I'm watching South Park as I write this) but yeah. Something awesome.
Arashi08 wrote...
Like I said it was a small hole, but the video got me thinking about the Final Hours app and how it mentions Shepard's losing control, aka the player losing control of Shepard, which means that even before the game came out, they clearly had Indoctrination in mind when it came to the plot in ME3's story.
If this is the case, then could it also be possible that they left this infrasound at certain points in the game to affect the previous plot point they were planning to use in ME3 before they determined it was too difficult to implement the Shepard-losing-control part of the game. So it could be possible that they simply didn't remove the infrasound when they re-did the ending, especially since most speakers can't emit it and humans can't hear it anyway. why not just leave it in rather than re-record the sound/music?
like I said, it is a small, speculative hole, but I felt it needed to be addressed, so it could be properly discussed rather than being taken and ran with by a troll and/or anti-ITer
EpyonX3 wrote...
Aww you assume I'll use it out of context? Why? When have I ever done so?
That's actually one of my peeves when things are quoted out of context. I'll assure you it wont.
BatmanTurian wrote...
TJBartlemus wrote...
Yeah, maybe I'm going crazy...just always thought something was up with the eye similarities...
Found another similarity on another playthrough of ME2. Whenever Harbinger took control of a collector the collector burned and when killed became ashes. So in the dreams when the child burns it's Harbinger trying to take control over you??
oh shi- wow, I think you're on to something there....
Sorry my brain is not working like it should cause I am so tired. If I took an IQ test right now I am quite sure it would be in the lower range of the spectrum of intelligence.
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