55528 réponses à ce sujet

[MegumiAzusa]

TSA_383 wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

The Sounds of Possession

Ah, yes. "Infrasonic noise". Sounds allegedly used by the Reapers to indoctrinate. We have dismissed that claim.

Pulling up some random sounds and songs I can only say it's nothing unusual.
Example:
Random track from BSG
Random voice from Tiberium Wars (GDI Mammoth Tank)
Random generated sound from Tiberium Wars (building placement of Scrin structure)
Random real life (wind) sound from Tiberium Wars

This is exactly why I made this post a while back:

TSA_383 wrote...

One more quick note on infrasound (it's time for a science lesson!)

This is why we ignore super-low frequencies unless they're seriously apparent:

When
you record something at, say, 48Khz, then downsample it to, say, 24Khz
(as was done with some of the ME3 audio files) then occasionally you get
signals created at very low frequencies as noise.

With the magic of MS Paint I've explained why:


Now,
suspend disbelief for a moment and pretend that I don't have the mouse
control of a drunk epileptic at a prodigy gig, and I'll explain what
happens.

Say you have a 48Khz recording and you've got a sound in
there at 22Khz (which you probably wouldn't care about anyway). When
you downshift to 24Khz you'll end up with the original wave (represented
in blue) being sampled only slightly more regularly than it cycles, and
as a result you'll actually end up with a wave of much, much lower
frequency (represented in green) being recorded into the new lower
sample-rate audio.

Now, this is something that will usually
happen at low-ish volumes, so you'll almost always get a bit of
infrasound in a recording that's undergone this process.

In
addition to that you also get spectral leakage, and pretty quickly you
have to stop trusting that the low-level infrasound you see is
intentional.


BUT.
This is not something that will happen
at high volumes, so when we get the massively loud infrasound we saw in
the dream sequences for example, this effect can be pretty much
discounted.

Where you see wideband noise stretching way to the bottom, it's probably in part interference.

Where you see substantial narrow-ish-band peaks where there arguably shouldn't be, it's not.

Since when does volume affect undersampling which is based on frequency? It can only become a problem if the volume changes, which could distort an undersampled frequency, but a constant volume would do nothing.

TSA_383 wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

Asef Dimakiir wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

The Sounds of Possession

Ah, yes. "Infrasonic noise". We have dismissed that claim.

Pulling up some random sounds and songs I can only say it's nothing unusual.
Example:
Random track from BSG
Random voice from Tiberium Wars (GDI Mammoth Tank)
Random generated sound from Tiberium Wars (building placement of Scrin structure)
Random real life (wind) sound from Tiberium Wars

*Shrug*
The difference is, the infrasonic noise chimes in on certain situations
that relate to IT, then stop whenever that event stops or fades away.
That's the weird part.

EDIT: Also, considering infrasonic noise
is specifically mentioned as how the reapers indoctrinate people....
it's again. Very strange.

So how do you explain in the intro
where Shep gets thrown around and hears voices when hitting her head the
infrasonic noise is at its lowest? My point here is that it should be
at its highest if placed manually, and it doesn't increase compared to
before/after when you hear the buzzing sound.

It does however come in when Shep is on the floor, as there's a major infrasonic component to the "whisper" sounds you hear at that point.

That was the part I meant and there is no major infrasonic component in that part, it is about half of anything else, and about one third of its usual.

Modifié par MegumiAzusa, 19 juin 2012 - 10:26 .

[Andromidius]

MegumiAzusa wrote...
That was the part I meant and there is no major infrasonic component in that part, it is about half of anything else, and about one third of its usual.

Makes sense for it to be gradual though.  Subtle, careful, patient indoctrination is what the Reapers prefer when it comes to high value targets.

[TSA_383]

MegumiAzusa wrote...

Since when does volume affect undersampling which is based on frequency?

Okay I've not been clear here - sounds at that kind of pitch won't ever be seriously loud (if they were audible they would hurt for a start!) So any noise created by undersampling won't be very loud either.

MegumiAzusa wrote...

That was the part I meant and there is no major infrasonic component in that part, it is about half of anything else, and about one third of its usual.

I'll have to go back and check... later

estebanus wrote...

Let's see, these are the countries I've been to:

Denmark
Germany
Sweden
Norway
Russia
USA
Canada
Great Britain
Ireland
Italy
Austria
Slovakia
Spain
Greece
Netherlands
Belgium
Poland

Bet you've never been to the Shetland islands

Andromidius wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

Interesting
but, I haven't seen someone show a clear cut connection between the two
but undoubtedly I will be shown evidence to the contrary

Yeah,
someone did some checks on the audio when Coats is present.  There's
heavy infrasound.  Moment he leaves, the infrasound disappears.

Dun dun dun!

Can we clear this up - it's not really infrasound when coates is present (check page 771 I think for when I first posted about it) it's just super-low bass that seems out of place...

[MegumiAzusa]

Andromidius wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...
That was the part I meant and there is no major infrasonic component in that part, it is about half of anything else, and about one third of its usual.

Makes sense for it to be gradual though.  Subtle, careful, patient indoctrination is what the Reapers prefer when it comes to high value targets.

Right now I get a pretty good idea why some anti IT ppl just laugh at this.

[MegumiAzusa]

TSA_383 wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

Since when does volume affect undersampling which is based on frequency?

Okay I've not been clear here - sounds at that kind of pitch won't ever be seriously loud (if they were audible they would hurt for a start!) So any noise created by undersampling won't be very loud either.

Which still does nothing in terms of volume that affects sampling. As said in my edit volume can distort it if it changes rapidly, but if the volume is constant, aka a constant amplitude, it wouldn't affect sampling at all.

[Andromidius]

MegumiAzusa wrote...

Andromidius wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...
That was the part I meant and there is no major infrasonic component in that part, it is about half of anything else, and about one third of its usual.

Makes sense for it to be gradual though.  Subtle, careful, patient indoctrination is what the Reapers prefer when it comes to high value targets.

Right now I get a pretty good idea why some anti IT ppl just laugh at this.

Because they don't understand one of the basic premises of the game?

Yeah, they can laugh all they like.  Doesn't make them right.

[TSA_383]

MegumiAzusa wrote...

Andromidius wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...
That was the part I meant and there is no major infrasonic component in that part, it is about half of anything else, and about one third of its usual.

Makes sense for it to be gradual though.  Subtle, careful, patient indoctrination is what the Reapers prefer when it comes to high value targets.

Right now I get a pretty good idea why some anti IT ppl just laugh at this.

Yup.
Need to ensure that we don't over-reach ourselves. We've got a few sequences with pretty interesting effects, and some other sound effects (banshee noises in particular) that have interesting audio. What we don't need to do is to start shoe-horning it into scenes it doesn't fit into.

What I frankly find more interesting than this spectrum analysis lark is the "angelic choir" type sound, which we only get in the dream sequences, during the beam strike and during the choice sequence. That, to me, is far more suspicious.

Also, given the whole "warning signs always appear next to the child" thing, I'm screenshotting every warning sign I see on my new playthrough to see if there's anything unusual there.


At this point, I don't think I'm looking for evidence for a theory, more easter-egg hunting

Modifié par TSA_383, 19 juin 2012 - 10:36 .

[Andromidius]

TSA_383 wrote...
Can we clear this up - it's not really infrasound when coates is present (check page 771 I think for when I first posted about it) it's just super-low bass that seems out of place...

Fair enough.  Still weird to put it there with him.

Pondering what it could be, since its very unlikely to be a mistake.  Perhaps its a crude indoctrination signal that isn't as well hidden as it should be, or a 4th wall break to get people wondering what the hell is up with the sound?

Speculations.

[Jadebaby]

hey people, did you pick up any new evidence from analysing the game's infrasounds?

[SubAstris]

Andromidius wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

Interesting but, I haven't seen someone show a clear cut connection between the two but undoubtedly I will be shown evidence to the contrary

Yeah, someone did some checks on the audio when Coats is present.  There's heavy infrasound.  Moment he leaves, the infrasound disappears.

Dun dun dun!

I will have a look to see the context aswell

[Domanese]

Jade8aby88 wrote...

hey people, did you pick up any new evidence from analysing the game's infrasounds?

Did anyone try this with the Control or Synthesis Ending?! Quick! Someone do this!

[Silhouett3]

The infrasound is great find. I have a question about it:

Why they didn't make it audible in game? Would that be dangerously harmful? Are there laws restricting usage of it? It has some psychological effects for sure, in some cases it led to claims of paranormal events. I read the research from a Chinese university on google that found out it also changes blood pressure and heart rate and the subjects exposed to it feel headachy, fretful and tired.

[Earthborn_Shepard]

Silhouett3 wrote...

The infrasound is great find. I have a question about it:

Why they didn't make it audible in game? Would that be dangerously harmful? Are there laws restricting usage of it? It has some psychological effects for sure, in some cases it led to claims of paranormal events. I read the research from a Chinese university on google that found out it also changes blood pressure and heart rate and the subjects exposed to it feel headachy, fretful and tired.

well.. the point kinda is that it is NOT audible.. you can only sense it.. also most speakers can't even produce it

[Rifneno]

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

You are talking about PTSD arent you?

Shepard has lost many people much closer to him than that single kid so it makes little sense a PTSD dream would center around the kid with his lost crew only beeing voices in the back of it all.

In fact PTSD makes no sense as PTSD is far more than just bad dreams. It also includes an aversion to evenst and places asociated with the PTSD something clearly shown twive in the game, one time by the Asari in Huerta Memorial who avoids humans and showers and the other time by Kelly Chambers who dosent want to go back to the Normandy after what happened with the Collectors.

To put this in another way Shepard would have an aversion to Reapers if he suffered PTSD

This. Anyone who says it's PTSD needs to stop pretending they're a psychologist because they clearly don't know jack **** about the subject. End of story. BioWare, on the other hand, obviously does know other symptoms of PTSD since they made sure to include them with the asari commando and Kelly Chambers.

Claiming this is PTSD based on one symptom, one that's also a symptom of indoctrination, is like writing off someone covered in smallpox as having the cold because both diseases carry a fever.

MegumiAzusa wrote...

Right now I get a pretty good idea why some anti IT ppl just laugh at this.

I started to try and form a well thought out response, then I remembered giving up the last time. You still think black eyes on an asari means they're under Reaper control I take it?

[Rifneno]

Silhouett3 wrote...

The infrasound is great find. I have a question about it:

Why they didn't make it audible in game? Would that be dangerously harmful? Are there laws restricting usage of it? It has some psychological effects for sure, in some cases it led to claims of paranormal events. I read the research from a Chinese university on google that found out it also changes blood pressure and heart rate and the subjects exposed to it feel headachy, fretful and tired.

It can't be audible.  Infrasound, by its very definition, cannot be heard by human ears.

[paxxton]

Hi!

[Ewok Hunter]

TSA_383 wrote...

Also, given the whole "warning signs always appear next to the child" thing, I'm screenshotting every warning sign I see on my new playthrough to see if there's anything unusual there.

At this point, I don't think I'm looking for evidence for a theory, more easter-egg hunting

I don't know if  anyones mentioned it, but when Shepard's talking to Garrus in the Main Battery room about seeing the child there's actually a caution sign next to his head on the wall. Nothing much but if you're looking for small things like that, keep an eye out during that scene.

[Silhouett3]

Earthborn_Shepard wrote...

well.. the point kinda is that it is NOT audible.. you can only sense it.. also most speakers can't even produce it

The way I understand it, with "pitch shifting" one can make it audible... or does it cease to be "infrasound" when pitch shifted?

Anyway, so we have a game which intentionally plays harmful sound to our brain and we were not meant to notice it:whistle:

[Earthborn_Shepard]

paxxton wrote...

Hi!

Ohai paxxton!

(The cycle repeats...)

[dorktainian]

ah super low bass.... yes we have dismissed this claim..

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

Silhouett3 wrote...

Earthborn_Shepard wrote...

well.. the point kinda is that it is NOT audible.. you can only sense it.. also most speakers can't even produce it

The way I understand it, with "pitch shifting" one can make it audible... or does it cease to be "infrasound" when pitch shifted?

Anyway, so we have a game which intentionally plays harmful sound to our brain and we were not meant to notice it:whistle:

You do know that it requires special sound equibment to actually play those sound. Your standard sound system will never be able to play those hamrful sounds, which only makes it even curious they are in the soundtrack.

[SubAstris]

Rifneno wrote...

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

You are talking about PTSD arent you?

Shepard has lost many people much closer to him than that single kid so it makes little sense a PTSD dream would center around the kid with his lost crew only beeing voices in the back of it all.

In fact PTSD makes no sense as PTSD is far more than just bad dreams. It also includes an aversion to evenst and places asociated with the PTSD something clearly shown twive in the game, one time by the Asari in Huerta Memorial who avoids humans and showers and the other time by Kelly Chambers who dosent want to go back to the Normandy after what happened with the Collectors.

To put this in another way Shepard would have an aversion to Reapers if he suffered PTSD

This. Anyone who says it's PTSD needs to stop pretending they're a psychologist because they clearly don't know jack **** about the subject. End of story. BioWare, on the other hand, obviously does know other symptoms of PTSD since they made sure to include them with the asari commando and Kelly Chambers.

Claiming this is PTSD based on one symptom, one that's also a symptom of indoctrination, is like writing off someone covered in smallpox as having the cold because both diseases carry a fever.

If we are analysing the scene as a singular element in a story then there is as much evidence for it showing the psychological damage of Shepard as indoctrniation, however much you may want the dreams to be considered evidence for your theory

[ZerebusPrime]

So I'm at the point of Cerberus invading the Citadel. While I cannot comment yet on Bailey explicitly helping Cerberus, the game has given me the distinct impression that Udina has gained great sway over C-Sec with Bailey in charge. In particular, the Salarian Ambassador contacts you about Udina moving large amounts of credits because he does not trust Bailey to take any actions against the human councilor. I believe Udina plays him as surely as he plays the Virmire Survivor.

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

SubAstris wrote...

If we are analysing the scene as a singular element in a story then there is as much evidence for it showing the psychological damage of Shepard as indoctrniation, however much you may want the dreams to be considered evidence for your theory

What Physcological damage? Shepard is under alot of pressure in the game, as much is said after the Thessia mission, but where do they start talking about him beeing physchologically damaged?

Inf act as has been said Shepard has gone through worse and goes through worse over the cause of the game than watching that child die. Kaidan/Ashely´s, Mordin, Thane, Legion, all people close to Shepard and which would logically affect him way more.

Hell with the sole survivor background Shepard has gone through the death of his entire unit as the sole survivor, but shows not signs of PTSD or other mental affects from it.

Shepard is repeatdely cited as incredibly strong willed, probably the most strong willed person in the galaxy. It is unlikely, even impossible,  that he would break down from horror or sadness if there was not some kind of outside influence specifically working to that end.

[SubAstris]

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

If we are analysing the scene as a singular element in a story then there is as much evidence for it showing the psychological damage of Shepard as indoctrniation, however much you may want the dreams to be considered evidence for your theory

What Physcological damage? Shepard is under alot of pressure in the game, as much is said after the Thessia mission, but where do they start talking about him beeing physchologically damaged?

Inf act as has been said Shepard has gone through worse and goes through worse over the cause of the game than watching that child die. Kaidan/Ashely´s, Mordin, Thane, Legion, all people close to Shepard and which would logically affect him way more.

Hell with the sole survivor background Shepard has gone through the death of his entire unit as the sole survivor, but shows not signs of PTSD or other mental affects from it.

Shepard is repeatdely cited as incredibly strong willed, probably the most strong willed person in the galaxy. It is unlikely, even impossible,  that he would break down from horror or sadness if there was not some kind of outside influence specifically working to that end.

I think it is safe to assume that, like any soldier, he is affected by the events unfolding in front of his very eyes. The dreams are a subconscious representation of his feelings of guilty and others.

He does go through a lot worse in terms of the people he loses, yes . But you have forgotten what I have said before, BW distinctively set out to make Shepard respond more emotionally in this game, much more than the others, hence why in the first scene he reacts as he does when the child dies. Furthermore, you have to see the child as a representation of humanity (BW's words, which I have mentioned before), not just one person.

Again your interpretation ignores what BW have themselves already said