55528 réponses à ce sujet

[HellishFiend]

paxxton wrote...

D.Sharrah wrote...

byne wrote...

D.Sharrah wrote...

@Byne - I probably missed this...but what did you think of Hellish's infrasound vid?

It was pretty interesting, but I dont really think I know enough about sound and audio to fully appreciate it.

Same here...but it is hard not to see it is a huge piece of evidence for IT!

Especially the presence of infrasound while Coats appears in the scenes. They vanish as soon as he leaves the area.

Actually I may have made a mistake or overexaggerated a little with the Coats part, the audible bass is confirmed as being directly related to Coats, but the infrasound portion is slightly suspect since it peaks as it approaches 0. We'd have to isolate the infrasound frequency and re-analyze or pitch shift it to confirm if that part is intentional. 

Regardless, the concept and point behind that segment of the video is still solid, so I'm not going to be remaking the video over it. If points that were slightly off were grounds for remaking IT videos, ACAVYOS would probably have a dozen revisions of his video so far. 

[D.Sharrah]

Corik wrote...

paxxton wrote...

Especially the presence of infrasound while Coats appears in the scenes. They vanish as soon as he leaves the area.

Maybe he has an infrasound emitter device in his pocket to keep bugs and mosquitoes away from him.

 
I know that you are playing devil's advocate...but if I see any Anti-IT'ers using this I am sending them your way.

[HellishFiend]

byne wrote...

D.Sharrah wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

byne wrote...

D.Sharrah wrote...

@Byne - I probably missed this...but what did you think of Hellish's infrasound vid?

It was pretty interesting, but I dont really think I know enough about sound and audio to fully appreciate it.

Let me know if there is anything I can say to help explain it. I tried fitting as much exposition as I could without overextending it and losing viewers, but I can certainly expound on it here if it would help you appreciate it. 

At the very least though, rest assured that it's legit, regardless of what anyone says. I promise you that. Some of the minor details may be off in my video (TSA pointed out that I circled the wrong area in one of the Coats screenshots), but the presence of intentional infrasound has been confirmed through pitch shifting. 

If Byne is anything like me, then its not that its not understood - just not understood enough that we would ever have a chance at explaining it to someone else...if that makes sense at all.

Yeah, I'd probly just end up talking about hearing sounds that you cant actually hear, but that are totally there, and seeming crazy.

I understand. I'm mainly giving everyone here time to absorb it before making it it's own topic, but if anyone wants to stay out of the resulting discussion/defense of the subject, that's perfectly reasonable. 

[D.Sharrah]

Posting for new page...

D.Sharrah wrote...

Shameless self promotion...want to make sure that as many people as possible see this...

D.Sharrah wrote...

First...it looks like there was some good discussion after I went to bed last night...kudos to all involved. That being said, I am not going to try to read the pages I missed to try to catch up. Which means if what I bring up again in this post has been talked to death, I do apologize, And without further ado...

Last night I very briefly mentioned something that was bothering me about one of the things from the "Final Hours" App. It was a statement that suggested that during the final hours of production Bioware made a decision to pull th plug on a game mechanic that they had been working on. Of course I am referring to the idea that they were considering IT all along and they had a game mechanic where we the players would "lose control of Shepard". The app goes onto to say that they pulled the plug on this gameplay mechanic because they (Bioware) were having trouble finding a way to implement this along with their conventional dialogue system.

It would seem on the surface that this is a rather valid observation. And is often used by Anti-IT'ers as "evidence" that IT can't be true. As many have pointed out this is quite silly in its own right, because they are misinterperting what the app says. The app says that the game mechanic was scrapped - and they take that to mean that IT was scrapped. They are extrapolating from the given data to come to a conclusion, that may very well be wrong. And no matter what we say, they don't want to admit that they might be wrong. It could be enough to stop there, but I think this deserves more attention.

Getting back to the game mechanic being scrapped statement, is this true? This point is what I brought up last night - I asked if the confrontation with TIM could be viewed as an in game example of what this mechanic would look like. And the one answer that I saw (and again I apologize if there were more answers later), was maybe. I don't remember exactly who stated it (BatmanTurian?) or what the exact words were, but it was something like, "It was supposed to be Harbinger, but maybe they changed it to TIM". Again, this could be a fair enough point to stop, but if we do then we could miss how it actually fits into how they designed that sequence and the entire game.

First of all, assuming that we are right about IT and that the TIM confrontation is an example of the mechanic in question - then that sequence is about indoctrination. And when interperting what we see from the viewpoint, then TIM is not the one exerting control - but it is the Reapers (most likely Harbinger as the culprit who is doing the indoctrinating). Following IT, then we know what we perceive as TIM's space magic control of Shep - is actually the Reapers twisting Shep's perception in their attempt to indoctrinate him.

But were still not done. The app clearly states that the mechanic was tossed out of the game because Bioware was having trouble figuring out a way to implement the mechanic without compromising the dialogue system. What if rather than tossing out the "lose control" mechanic, they changed the dialogue system so that it would fit better? I know one of the big complaints when the game came out was the rampant use of auto-dialogue. People felt that it took control away from them, didn't give them the choice that they once had (and I don't think that those feelings are wrong). But what if it was done throughout the entire game, so that when we get to this watershed moment - it didn't stick out.

I know that we have tried to interpret all the pre-release clues in different ways - and I am not sure that we have them completely nailed down yet. But is it possible that the "red herring" is the "Final Hours" app? And that we were meant to misinterpret the information presented or take it for granted that it was "truth"...all so that we were thrown off the IT trail?

Sorry for the wall of text (hope that is formatted so it is an easier read). Please read and let me know what you think.

[paxxton]

Corik wrote...

Just finished ME1 again. Seeing those creepy 1M1 thingies on my way to the top of the tower is... well, I don't know. What are those? Cannons? I can't think of anything else they could be. If they are cannons... why are they INSIDE the Citadel in ME3? I'm currently more convinced about the whole place being constructed by Shepard's memory. Oh well... this never ends xD

1M1 signs on the Citadel in ME1. Hmm... The Citadel wasn't built by humans that's for sure and 1M1 shouldn't be there. What if those signs are some signals from his subconscious that Shepard isn't actually there but it's all a hallucination induced by the Prothean beacon from Eden Prime?

[paxxton]

D.Sharrah wrote...

Corik wrote...

paxxton wrote...

Especially the presence of infrasound while Coats appears in the scenes. They vanish as soon as he leaves the area.

Maybe he has an infrasound emitter device in his pocket to keep bugs and mosquitoes away from him.

 
I know that you are playing devil's advocate...but if I see any Anti-IT'ers using this I am sending them your way.

@Corik: Just LOL.

[Corik]

paxxton wrote...

Corik wrote...

Just finished ME1 again. Seeing those creepy 1M1 thingies on my way to the top of the tower is... well, I don't know. What are those? Cannons? I can't think of anything else they could be. If they are cannons... why are they INSIDE the Citadel in ME3? I'm currently more convinced about the whole place being constructed by Shepard's memory. Oh well... this never ends xD

1M1 signs on the Citadel in ME1. Hmm... The Citadel wasn't built by humans that's for sure and 1M1 shouldn't be there. What if those signs are some signals from his subconscious that Shepard isn't actually there but it's all a hallucination induced by the Prothean beacon from Eden Prime?

Nah, those components could perfectly be additions bought by the council to Human companies. If they are cannons (as I said) maybe they have been installed few years ago to help defend the citadel. If they are antennas, same thing. I don't see them out of place in ME1, I see them out of place in ME3, because they are in an unexplored part of the citadel.

Modifié par Corik, 19 juin 2012 - 04:03 .

[EpyonX3]

D.Sharrah wrote...

Shameless self promotion...want to make sure that as many people as possible see this...

D.Sharrah wrote...

First...it looks like there was some good discussion after I went to bed last night...kudos to all involved. That being said, I am not going to try to read the pages I missed to try to catch up. Which means if what I bring up again in this post has been talked to death, I do apologize, And without further ado...

Last night I very briefly mentioned something that was bothering me about one of the things from the "Final Hours" App. It was a statement that suggested that during the final hours of production Bioware made a decision to pull th plug on a game mechanic that they had been working on. Of course I am referring to the idea that they were considering IT all along and they had a game mechanic where we the players would "lose control of Shepard". The app goes onto to say that they pulled the plug on this gameplay mechanic because they (Bioware) were having trouble finding a way to implement this along with their conventional dialogue system.

It would seem on the surface that this is a rather valid observation. And is often used by Anti-IT'ers as "evidence" that IT can't be true. As many have pointed out this is quite silly in its own right, because they are misinterperting what the app says. The app says that the game mechanic was scrapped - and they take that to mean that IT was scrapped. They are extrapolating from the given data to come to a conclusion, that may very well be wrong. And no matter what we say, they don't want to admit that they might be wrong. It could be enough to stop there, but I think this deserves more attention.

Getting back to the game mechanic being scrapped statement, is this true? This point is what I brought up last night - I asked if the confrontation with TIM could be viewed as an in game example of what this mechanic would look like. And the one answer that I saw (and again I apologize if there were more answers later), was maybe. I don't remember exactly who stated it (BatmanTurian?) or what the exact words were, but it was something like, "It was supposed to be Harbinger, but maybe they changed it to TIM". Again, this could be a fair enough point to stop, but if we do then we could miss how it actually fits into how they designed that sequence and the entire game.

First of all, assuming that we are right about IT and that the TIM confrontation is an example of the mechanic in question - then that sequence is about indoctrination. And when interperting what we see from the viewpoint, then TIM is not the one exerting control - but it is the Reapers (most likely Harbinger as the culprit who is doing the indoctrinating). Following IT, then we know what we perceive as TIM's space magic control of Shep - is actually the Reapers twisting Shep's perception in their attempt to indoctrinate him.

But were still not done. The app clearly states that the mechanic was tossed out of the game because Bioware was having trouble figuring out a way to implement the mechanic without compromising the dialogue system. What if rather than tossing out the "lose control" mechanic, they changed the dialogue system so that it would fit better? I know one of the big complaints when the game came out was the rampant use of auto-dialogue. People felt that it took control away from them, didn't give them the choice that they once had (and I don't think that those feelings are wrong). But what if it was done throughout the entire game, so that when we get to this watershed moment - it didn't stick out.

I know that we have tried to interpret all the pre-release clues in different ways - and I am not sure that we have them completely nailed down yet. But is it possible that the "red herring" is the "Final Hours" app? And that we were meant to misinterpret the information presented or take it for granted that it was "truth"...all so that we were thrown off the IT trail?

Sorry for the wall of text (hope that is formatted so it is an easier read). Please read and let me know what you think.

Here's the problem I have with discussing IT. If you assume IT first, then anything the developer says is in relation to IT. Now I'm not trying to knock your post but it's just a thing I have.

Now the final hours app says the player could "Lose Control of Shepard." This doesn't mean that Shepard was or is being indoctrinated. TIM controlling Shepard and Anderson is not reaper indoctrination or any indoctrination for that matter. The odd sound is the sound waves that take control of Shepard's nervous system, much like reapers use a sound wave to attack the limbic system and makes him stand still and point and shoot the gun.

During this time, Shepard and Anderson's thought processes are intact as they convince TIM that he's indoctrinated.

Now this works perfectly well with the dialog system because as you know, you have no control over Shepard when in a dialog scene. This is what substituted whatever they had in mind.

[Corik]

paxxton wrote...

D.Sharrah wrote...

Corik wrote...

paxxton wrote...

Especially the presence of infrasound while Coats appears in the scenes. They vanish as soon as he leaves the area.

Maybe he has an infrasound emitter device in his pocket to keep bugs and mosquitoes away from him.

 
I know that you are playing devil's advocate...but if I see any Anti-IT'ers using this I am sending them your way.

@Corik: Just LOL.

It could be fun:

Shepard: Coats, you're emitting infrasound frequencies! We know you are indoctrinated!
Coats: What? That's my anti-mosquito device, you're crazy!
Shepard: .... I should go.

[paxxton]

Off-topic:

Holy duck! Did you see that!? I want that now!

Modifié par paxxton, 19 juin 2012 - 04:06 .

[HellishFiend]

EpyonX3 wrote...


Here's the problem I have with discussing IT. If you assume IT first, then anything the developer says is in relation to IT. Now I'm not trying to knock your post but it's just a thing I have.

You may be able to apply that to some people, Epyon, but hopefully not me. I always attempt to clearly state when I am stepping into or out of a context when postulating. I call attention to the fact that I am theorizing within a context for the sake of speculation rather than allowing that context to cloud my judgement. If I am ever unclear about that, please do point it out, because I try very hard to maintain visible objectivity in that regard. 

[HellishFiend]

Corik wrote...

It could be fun:

Shepard: Coats, you're emitting infrasound frequencies! We know you are indoctrinated!
Coats: What? That's my anti-mosquito device, you're crazy!
Shepard: .... I should go.

LMAO! This is the best Infrasound joke so far! 

[LazyTechGuy]

What I don't get is that even if you were to take the endings at true, literal, face value; the Reapers are still inside Shepard's head, albeit to a smaller degree than IT. The image of the Catalyst child is an image extracted from Shepard's head. Has to be, right? The kid reminded me of the movie Contact where the end encounter is a projection of sights, sounds and people from the person's memory.

So aren't we really just debating about the degree at which the Reapers have penetrated Shepard's mind?

[HellishFiend]

LazyTechGuy wrote...

What I don't get is that even if you were to take the endings at true, literal, face value; the Reapers are still inside Shepard's head, albeit to a smaller degree than IT. The image of the Catalyst child is an image extracted from Shepard's head. Has to be, right? The kid reminded me of the movie Contact where the end encounter is a projection of sights, sounds and people from the person's memory.

So aren't we really just debating about the degree at which the Reapers have penetrated Shepard's mind?

Yes, and if anyone says otherwise, no offense to them, but they should probably be playing Multiplayer instead of speculating on BSN. 

edit: And this is coming from someone who, last time I checked a few days ago, was in the top 50 N7 on the xbox/US leaderboard, and top 100 N7 on xbox/global. So I'm not knocking multiplayer. 

Modifié par HellishFiend, 19 juin 2012 - 04:15 .

[paxxton]

Corik wrote...

paxxton wrote...

D.Sharrah wrote...

Corik wrote...

paxxton wrote...

Especially the presence of infrasound while Coats appears in the scenes. They vanish as soon as he leaves the area.

Maybe he has an infrasound emitter device in his pocket to keep bugs and mosquitoes away from him.

 
I know that you are playing devil's advocate...but if I see any Anti-IT'ers using this I am sending them your way.

@Corik: Just LOL.

It could be fun:

Shepard: Coats, you're emitting infrasound frequencies! We know you are indoctrinated!
Coats: What? That's my anti-mosquito device, you're crazy!
Shepard: .... I should go.

Shepard: The infrasounds...they're all gone.
Coats: Damn batteries! Need to put in new ones. Oh, no, cockroaches and louses.

[D.Sharrah]

paxxton wrote...

Off-topic:

Holy duck! Did you see that!? I want that now!

Yes...me too!  Hopefully for the holidays!

[EpyonX3]

paxxton wrote...

Corik wrote...

Just finished ME1 again. Seeing those creepy 1M1 thingies on my way to the top of the tower is... well, I don't know. What are those? Cannons? I can't think of anything else they could be. If they are cannons... why are they INSIDE the Citadel in ME3? I'm currently more convinced about the whole place being constructed by Shepard's memory. Oh well... this never ends xD

1M1 signs on the Citadel in ME1. Hmm... The Citadel wasn't built by humans that's for sure and 1M1 shouldn't be there. What if those signs are some signals from his subconscious that Shepard isn't actually there but it's all a hallucination induced by the Prothean beacon from Eden Prime?

This was discussed before.

1m1 are antenna.

Why are they inside the Citadel? Because the Citadel is Shifting and changing to the point where it's unrecognizable by Shepard and Anderson. What's more interesting is that the 1M1 from ME1 has one side with forward writing and the other side is backwards, just like ME3.

1m1 and other objects are like this because of a technique called symmetrical modelling.

Here's another example:

[HellishFiend]

EpyonX3 wrote...

This was discussed before.

1m1 are antenna.

Why are they inside the Citadel? Because the Citadel is Shifting and changing to the point where it's unrecognizable by Shepard and Anderson. What's more interesting is that the 1M1 from ME1 has one side with forward writing and the other side is backwards, just like ME3.

1m1 and other objects are like this because of a technique called symmetrical modelling.

Here's another example:

Epyon, you cant cite that without looking biased. To see that overtly flipped texture, you have to flycam. The reversed 1M1 antenna is blatantly visible. 

[paxxton]

D.Sharrah wrote...

paxxton wrote...

Off-topic:

Holy duck! Did you see that!? I want that now!

Yes...me too!  Hopefully for the holidays!

Yeah, it might be out as soon as October when Windows 8 GA is planned.
 
GA - general availability to consumers

[paxxton]

HellishFiend wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

This was discussed before.

1m1 are antenna.

Why are they inside the Citadel? Because the Citadel is Shifting and changing to the point where it's unrecognizable by Shepard and Anderson. What's more interesting is that the 1M1 from ME1 has one side with forward writing and the other side is backwards, just like ME3.

1m1 and other objects are like this because of a technique called symmetrical modelling.

Here's another example:

Epyon, you cant cite that without looking biased. To see that overtly flipped texture, you have to flycam. The reversed 1M1 antenna is blatantly visible. 

I could agree that BioWare used symmetric modelling for that gunship (an asset of relatively small importance). But to use it for a whole room? Sure, they could have used it but it's because they wanted to say something by doing it this way.

[EpyonX3]

HellishFiend wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

This was discussed before.

1m1 are antenna.

Why are they inside the Citadel? Because the Citadel is Shifting and changing to the point where it's unrecognizable by Shepard and Anderson. What's more interesting is that the 1M1 from ME1 has one side with forward writing and the other side is backwards, just like ME3.

1m1 and other objects are like this because of a technique called symmetrical modelling.

Here's another example:

Epyon, you cant cite that without looking biased. To see that overtly flipped texture, you have to flycam. The reversed 1M1 antenna is blatantly visible. 

And they were blatanly visible in ME1. Was the final mission in ME1 a hallucination? Besides there a plenty more, I just don't have pics readily available.

[D.Sharrah]

EpyonX3 wrote...

D.Sharrah wrote...

Shameless self promotion...want to make sure that as many people as possible see this...

D.Sharrah wrote...

First...it looks like there was some good discussion after I went to bed last night...kudos to all involved. That being said, I am not going to try to read the pages I missed to try to catch up. Which means if what I bring up again in this post has been talked to death, I do apologize, And without further ado...

Last night I very briefly mentioned something that was bothering me about one of the things from the "Final Hours" App. It was a statement that suggested that during the final hours of production Bioware made a decision to pull th plug on a game mechanic that they had been working on. Of course I am referring to the idea that they were considering IT all along and they had a game mechanic where we the players would "lose control of Shepard". The app goes onto to say that they pulled the plug on this gameplay mechanic because they (Bioware) were having trouble finding a way to implement this along with their conventional dialogue system.

It would seem on the surface that this is a rather valid observation. And is often used by Anti-IT'ers as "evidence" that IT can't be true. As many have pointed out this is quite silly in its own right, because they are misinterperting what the app says. The app says that the game mechanic was scrapped - and they take that to mean that IT was scrapped. They are extrapolating from the given data to come to a conclusion, that may very well be wrong. And no matter what we say, they don't want to admit that they might be wrong. It could be enough to stop there, but I think this deserves more attention.

Getting back to the game mechanic being scrapped statement, is this true? This point is what I brought up last night - I asked if the confrontation with TIM could be viewed as an in game example of what this mechanic would look like. And the one answer that I saw (and again I apologize if there were more answers later), was maybe. I don't remember exactly who stated it (BatmanTurian?) or what the exact words were, but it was something like, "It was supposed to be Harbinger, but maybe they changed it to TIM". Again, this could be a fair enough point to stop, but if we do then we could miss how it actually fits into how they designed that sequence and the entire game.

First of all, assuming that we are right about IT and that the TIM confrontation is an example of the mechanic in question - then that sequence is about indoctrination. And when interperting what we see from the viewpoint, then TIM is not the one exerting control - but it is the Reapers (most likely Harbinger as the culprit who is doing the indoctrinating). Following IT, then we know what we perceive as TIM's space magic control of Shep - is actually the Reapers twisting Shep's perception in their attempt to indoctrinate him.

But were still not done. The app clearly states that the mechanic was tossed out of the game because Bioware was having trouble figuring out a way to implement the mechanic without compromising the dialogue system. What if rather than tossing out the "lose control" mechanic, they changed the dialogue system so that it would fit better? I know one of the big complaints when the game came out was the rampant use of auto-dialogue. People felt that it took control away from them, didn't give them the choice that they once had (and I don't think that those feelings are wrong). But what if it was done throughout the entire game, so that when we get to this watershed moment - it didn't stick out.

I know that we have tried to interpret all the pre-release clues in different ways - and I am not sure that we have them completely nailed down yet. But is it possible that the "red herring" is the "Final Hours" app? And that we were meant to misinterpret the information presented or take it for granted that it was "truth"...all so that we were thrown off the IT trail?

Sorry for the wall of text (hope that is formatted so it is an easier read). Please read and let me know what you think.

Here's the problem I have with discussing IT. If you assume IT first, then anything the developer says is in relation to IT. Now I'm not trying to knock your post but it's just a thing I have.

Now the final hours app says the player could "Lose Control of Shepard." This doesn't mean that Shepard was or is being indoctrinated. TIM controlling Shepard and Anderson is not reaper indoctrination or any indoctrination for that matter. The odd sound is the sound waves that take control of Shepard's nervous system, much like reapers use a sound wave to attack the limbic system and makes him stand still and point and shoot the gun.

During this time, Shepard and Anderson's thought processes are intact as they convince TIM that he's indoctrinated.

Now this works perfectly well with the dialog system because as you know, you have no control over Shepard when in a dialog scene. This is what substituted whatever they had in mind.

All the while completely ignoring the point of the post...that the "Final Hours" app may be wrong that the gameplay mechanic in question was never taken out...changed yes, but not taken out.  And if it wasn't taken out, does it then imply that IT is still on the table?

I am not claiming that anything is "true" or fact...simply postulating so that we may speculate and discuss.  If that was not clear, I do apologize.

[HellishFiend]

Guys, if anyone would like to jump into the credits for my upcoming video, help me out a bit with this. This is a deep question that requires some thought to be put into the answer, so dont expect an easy-in. 

Ready? Here goes:

List what are, in your opinion, the primary subplots and themes in ME3 (specifically, with regard to the context of IT).
Next, link those subplots to their corresponding theme.
Finally, link those themes to their corresponding decision chamber choice (all 3 of them). 

I'm thinking we should have at least 1 or 2 subplots per theme, and 1 or 2 themes per decision chamber choice.

You dont have to provide every single one, but you have to come up with one I havent already thought of to get credit in the video, so please, the more you can come up with, the better!

[TSA_383]

byne wrote...

lex0r11 wrote...

byne wrote...

lex0r11 wrote...


Ohai, guys!

Don't know what else to do, photobucket account is down.

Again? Poor lex0r.

Don't worry, it's online again!

Just hosting the IT banner in my sig on my photobucket account has used up 8.2 GB of my monthly 10 GB, which surprised me.

You realise that between the old thread and this one we're on about a million views right?

ezzidio wrote...

I' m currently replaying ME2 and I'm noticing a lot of things when looking at it in an IT stance.

The beam to the citadel, could that be a direct mention on "Ascendance" by Harby in ME2? 


I'm
not sure if someone as mentioned this already, but these ME2 Harby
trash talk quotes seem to foreshadow IT as if Shepard was slowly being
indoctrinated through out ME2...

“You do not yet comprehend your
place in things.” The Reapers have a special purpose for Shepard that
he will fulfill if they successfully indoctrinate him (HellishFiend's
Opinion on this quote)

“We are the Harbinger of your
perfection.” Indoctrination of Shepard to achieve what the Reapers
see as perfection? The Synthesis ending?  

“You are ignorant, we are knowing.” Of the indoctrination and the future

“We are the Harbinger of your ascendance.” Play on words for the beam to the Citadel

“You have merely delayed the inevitable.” Indoctrination and invasion

“The experiments will continue, Shepard.” Experiments on his psyche? Dreams in ME3

“Take what is useful, destroy the rest.” nothing here

“Progress cannot be halted.” Progress of indoctrination?

“We are the Harbinger of your destiny.” Attempting to guide Shepard through Indoctrination?

Just taking a stab at some things..

That's some excellent straw grasping...

Nah
seriously, for a couple of those I can see where you're coming from,
but let's try not to give people excuses to assume we're nuts [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/wink.png[/smilie]

D.Sharrah wrote...
Getting back to the game mechanic being
scrapped statement, is this true? This point is what I brought up last
night - I asked if the confrontation with TIM could be viewed as an in
game example of what this mechanic would look like. And the one answer
that I saw (and again I apologize if there were more answers later), was
maybe. I don't remember exactly who stated it (BatmanTurian?) or what
the exact words were, but it was something like, "It was supposed to be
Harbinger, but maybe they changed it to TIM". Again, this could be a
fair enough point to stop, but if we do then we could miss how it
actually fits into how they designed that sequence and the entire game.

First
of all, assuming that we are right about IT and that the TIM
confrontation is an example of the mechanic in question - then that
sequence is about indoctrination. And when interperting what we see from
the viewpoint, then TIM is not the one exerting control - but it is the
Reapers (most likely Harbinger as the culprit who is doing the
indoctrinating). Following IT, then we know what we perceive as TIM's
space magic control of Shep - is actually the Reapers twisting Shep's
perception in their attempt to indoctrinate him.

But were still
not done. The app clearly states that the mechanic was tossed out of the
game because Bioware was having trouble figuring out a way to implement
the mechanic without compromising the dialogue system. What if rather
than tossing out the "lose control" mechanic, they changed the dialogue
system so that it would fit better? I know one of the big complaints
when the game came out was the rampant use of auto-dialogue. People felt
that it took control away from them, didn't give them the choice that
they once had (and I don't think that those feelings are wrong). But
what if it was done throughout the entire game, so that when we get to
this watershed moment - it didn't stick out.

Just
something to note - from the early leaked development notes I have a
copy of (on an external hard drive somewhere, I'll dig them out if
nobody really has them...) there was a bit of text attached to the TIM
confrontation bit of something like "perhaps player could use the right
analogue stick to struggle?" or something very similar.

If nobody
else has a copy I'll find out what it says, but I always assumed that
the original idea was to have a control system through which the player
could try to rebel, but this was dumped at some point in favour of the
EC, probably when EA wouldn't let them have the time they needed to
build the ending first time around.

[BleedingUranium]

HellishFiend wrote...

LazyTechGuy wrote...

What I don't get is that even if you were to take the endings at true, literal, face value; the Reapers are still inside Shepard's head, albeit to a smaller degree than IT. The image of the Catalyst child is an image extracted from Shepard's head. Has to be, right? The kid reminded me of the movie Contact where the end encounter is a projection of sights, sounds and people from the person's memory.

So aren't we really just debating about the degree at which the Reapers have penetrated Shepard's mind?

Yes, and if anyone says otherwise, no offense to them, but they should probably be playing Multiplayer instead of speculating on BSN. 

edit: And this is coming from someone who, last time I checked a few days ago, was in the top 50 N7 on the xbox/US leaderboard, and top 100 N7 on xbox/global. So I'm not knocking multiplayer. 

Congrats, but I'm happy at 120