55528 réponses à ce sujet

[nightcobra]

HellishFiend wrote...

Vox Draco wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...
This is an excellent question and personally one I have been hoping to receive an answer to in the EC. Neither ME2 nor 3 clarifies this point. We never receive any evidence to indicate that anyone other than Shepard has ever communicated with Harbinger. To make it further suspicious, rewatch the scene with the Rannoch Reaper and watch how the camera vibrates and pulses when the Reaper is speaking to you. In addition, a character (usually Tali) will walk up behind Shepard during the scene, but the camera is careful to NOT show the Reaper in that shot. The camera never shows anyone but Shepard and the Reaper in the same shot while they are conversing. Could possibly be a hint that the conversation is not happening verbally. 

So...there really isn't any "clarification" yet on this? Not even in the DLCs? When Anderson (or was it Hackett?) announced Harbinger is coming...then how does he know his name, actually? Is Harbinger ever brought up since the end of ME2 up to the end in ME3? I can't remember, but then I played ME3 only once three months ago...

No clarification at all, unless I'm forgetting something. But if I am, I'm sure someone will point it out when they notice these posts. 

Anderson and Hackett know about Shepard's dialog with Harbinger secondhand, because Shepard told them. We cant use Anderson's awareness of Harbinger as evidence because of that. 

But you raise another point that I personally feel lends itself as a narrative hint towards IT: Harbinger, who was set up to be the primary antagonist of the overarching plot by ME2, is entirely absent until the climax of ME3. Normally that is an unwise narrative move unless it serves a point of some kind, which without IT, it doesnt. 

and then anti-climatically flies away.

i remember thinking this while playing that part

"oh no, you come back here and fight! don't you run away from me you big stupid cuttlefish! get your ass back down here, i'm not finished yet!"

[TSA_383]

EpyonX3 wrote...

So how many organs did you sell to get that? lol

Good job though I'm sure it will crush anything you give it.

I justify it to myself as a bitcoin mining rig - if things stay as they are it will pay itself off in about 11 months
But yeah, originally I was going to go even more insane with this, but I think I've reached my own personal limit of financial insanity...

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

Alex_Dur4and wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

Alex_Dur4and wrote...

Hello everyone!

This may have been discussed more than once already. For that, I will excuse myself in advance as I have no intention of going through 901 pages of discussion on this topic!

I only wanted to bring up something that has always puzzled me. Something unanswered anywhere I've looked and that doesn't seems to receive the consideration it deserves...

The dreams!

What are they? What do they mean? What is the message behind them? Do they have any link to what the Racchni Queen was trying to tell us when we rescued her? Shepard's subconscious is clearely warning him that something is not right! And it seems to have something to do with... the little boy...

Is he real? Why so many caution signs around him at the start of the game? Why is he the catalyst at the end of the game and why can't we challenge him in discussion? Why is he responsible for the most important decision Shepard has to make?

Think about this for a second. I understand why so many people beleive in this theory. Myself, I don't know what to beleive anymore... But I know deep down that something is not right...

There are many questions, and reasonable arguments for both sides (at times). But make sure that your opinion is led by evidence and not a desire to see more DLC and a continuation of the ME franchsie

Smart words indeed...

I've already made my share of speculations and analysis. At one point, I was even convinced in the indoctrination attempt on Shepard at the end of the game. But then, I've seen so many solid facts crush this theory. It seems to be more and more unlikely that it will be true... But something still doesn't feel right...

My opinion is based on personnal observation, research and, yes, gutt feeling! Something is wrong and it doesn't seem to be over... yet...

Could you then be better than those opposing this theory and bring up those solid facts? No offense meant to you, but the sentence of "there is lots of evidence against IT" or similar seems often to be backed by nothing but hot air or outdated arguments, so please give us something to chew at since there is so much.

But i would also point you towards the start of this thread where many helpful links lead to the compilations of the evidence. You might find that alot of the arguments thosem opposing IT use outside this thread have been addressed in here as there is areason we have been running for so long and passed the 3000 page mark (collected between this and the last thread) and that reason is that no one opposing this Theory have been able to bring up conclusive counter points.

[HellishFiend]

nightcobra8928 wrote...

and then anti-climatically flies away.

i remember thinking this while playing that part

"oh no, you come back here and fight! don't you run away from me you big stupid cuttlefish! get your ass back down here, i'm not finished yet!"

Indeed! It was a horrible move from a narrative standpoint unless there is something hidden between the lines, which according to IT, there is. 

[Big Bad]

EpyonX3 wrote...

Vox Draco wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...
This is an excellent question and personally one I have been hoping to receive an answer to in the EC. Neither ME2 nor 3 clarifies this point. We never receive any evidence to indicate that anyone other than Shepard has ever communicated with Harbinger. To make it further suspicious, rewatch the scene with the Rannoch Reaper and watch how the camera vibrates and pulses when the Reaper is speaking to you. In addition, a character (usually Tali) will walk up behind Shepard during the scene, but the camera is careful to NOT show the Reaper in that shot. The camera never shows anyone but Shepard and the Reaper in the same shot while they are conversing. Could possibly be a hint that the conversation is not happening verbally. 

So...there really isn't any "clarification" yet on this? Not even in the DLCs? When Anderson (or was it Hackett?) announced Harbinger is coming...then how does he know his name, actually? Is Harbinger ever brought up since the end of ME2 up to the end in ME3? I can't remember, but then I played ME3 only once three months ago...

To be fair, they could have gotten the name from Shepard's reports. But then again, according to Vega, the Alliance had a few run ins with the collectors as well so he may have announced it then as well.

Speaking of Vega and the Collectors, I am still confused as hell by the fact that he told Shep that Cerberus had been working with the Collectors back when they were abducting human colonists. Uhhh...what? If this doesn't get explained at some point, I will not be a happy camper.

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

TSA_383 wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

So how many organs did you sell to get that? lol

Good job though I'm sure it will crush anything you give it.

I justify it to myself as a bitcoin mining rig - if things stay as they are it will pay itself off in about 11 months
But yeah, originally I was going to go even more insane with this, but I think I've reached my own personal limit of financial insanity...

I got a rig standing beside me which cost me more than I care to admit  But hey it is nice to plug in a new game and see the message "detecting optimal settings" followed by "settings set to Ultra high" (or whatever the game uses to describe maximum)

Modifié par Raistlin Majare 1992, 19 juin 2012 - 05:18 .

[paxxton]

EpyonX3 wrote...

TSA_383 wrote...

Some more stuff just turned up for my soon-to-be-N7-themed PC

Ended up selling the enermax PSU before it even turned up - got this stuff super-cheap instead:


Had to put a cable-tie on GPU0 so that it wasn't getting starved of precious, precious air...


And this is how it looks! Pretty sweet so far:


Not bad performance either - Second place globally in SiSoft Sandra's GPU test:


That's all, I'll stop dragging us off-topic now

So how many organs did you sell to get that? lol

Good job though I'm sure it will crush anything you give it.

LOL. You have a sense of humor.

@TSA_383: Great PC. 2nd place, WOW.
Have your neighbors reported any power shortages yet?

[paxxton]

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

TSA_383 wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

So how many organs did you sell to get that? lol

Good job though I'm sure it will crush anything you give it.

I justify it to myself as a bitcoin mining rig - if things stay as they are it will pay itself off in about 11 months
But yeah, originally I was going to go even more insane with this, but I think I've reached my own personal limit of financial insanity...

I got a rig standing beside me which cost me more than I care to admit  But hey it is nice to plug in a new game and see the message "detecting optimal settings" followed by "settings set to Ultra high" (or whatever the game uses to describe maximum)

I hate the fan noise (my head explodes after a few hours) so I'll probably buy a notebook as my next PC.

[Turbo_J]

Ha. Blast from the past.

ME1: Eden Prime Debrief

Anderson: "We don't know what information was stored in that beacon. Lost Prothean technology, blueprints for some ancient weapon of mass destruction... Whatever it was Saren took it..."

A thought planted in Sheps subconcious 3 years ago? I can't see it being literal forshadowing. Or maybe Anderson has a crystal ball somewhere.

[BatmanTurian]

God, I knew SubAstris would come into this thread and the first thing out of his mouth when looking at the infrasonic video would be " PTSD". God, you are so predictable, SA.

Even when shown compelling evidence, You go purposefully obtuse, ignore the evidence, and just end up looking like you're in denial. This is why I don't have debates with you anymore. You ignore whatever's in front of you and refuse to concede evidence.

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

paxxton wrote...

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

TSA_383 wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

So how many organs did you sell to get that? lol

Good job though I'm sure it will crush anything you give it.

I justify it to myself as a bitcoin mining rig - if things stay as they are it will pay itself off in about 11 months
But yeah, originally I was going to go even more insane with this, but I think I've reached my own personal limit of financial insanity...

I got a rig standing beside me which cost me more than I care to admit  But hey it is nice to plug in a new game and see the message "detecting optimal settings" followed by "settings set to Ultra high" (or whatever the game uses to describe maximum)

I hate the fan noise (my head explodes after a few hours) so I'll probably buy a notebook as my next PC.

Yeah it is a **** in the summer, but luckily I have a good sound system to go with it, voulume high enough and you dont hear it. Alternately some good headphones and the volume up work even better.

[Vox Draco]

HellishFiend wrote...
Anderson and Hackett know about Shepard's dialog with Harbinger secondhand, because Shepard told them. We cant use Anderson's awareness of Harbinger as evidence because of that. 

But you raise another point that I personally feel lends itself as a narrative hint towards IT: Harbinger, who was set up to be the primary antagonist of the overarching plot by ME2, is entirely absent until the climax of ME3. Normally that is an unwise narrative move unless it serves a point of some kind, which without IT, it doesnt. 

Alright, I will truly embarrassing myself now: When did Shepard and Harbinger have a direct conversation with each other? I really can't remember...but then, *sigh* the years are taking their toll on me...

And yes, mentioning Harbinger in the last minutes but having him nothing to do actually, it is the epitome of anti-climatic for me, and one of the main reasons I still hope Bioware has an ace hidden in their sleeve...otherwise their failure is getting only bigger, and I feel too "delusional" right now to accept this!

[byne]

Vox Draco wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...
Anderson and Hackett know about Shepard's dialog with Harbinger secondhand, because Shepard told them. We cant use Anderson's awareness of Harbinger as evidence because of that. 

But you raise another point that I personally feel lends itself as a narrative hint towards IT: Harbinger, who was set up to be the primary antagonist of the overarching plot by ME2, is entirely absent until the climax of ME3. Normally that is an unwise narrative move unless it serves a point of some kind, which without IT, it doesnt. 

Alright, I will truly embarrassing myself now: When did Shepard and Harbinger have a direct conversation with each other? I really can't remember...but then, *sigh* the years are taking their toll on me...

And yes, mentioning Harbinger in the last minutes but having him nothing to do actually, it is the epitome of anti-climatic for me, and one of the main reasons I still hope Bioware has an ace hidden in their sleeve...otherwise their failure is getting only bigger, and I feel too "delusional" right now to accept this!

Shep and Harby talked for like a minute during Arrival.

[TSA_383]

paxxton wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

So how many organs did you sell to get that? lol

Good job though I'm sure it will crush anything you give it.

LOL. You have a sense of humor.

@TSA_383: Great PC. 2nd place, WOW.
Have your neighbors reported any power shortages yet?

Not yet
Tried running a PSU test though - if you max everything it draws ~900W
I don't like the idea that gaming contributes significantly to my power bills

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

paxxton wrote...

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

TSA_383 wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

So how many organs did you sell to get that? lol

Good job though I'm sure it will crush anything you give it.

I justify it to myself as a bitcoin mining rig - if things stay as they are it will pay itself off in about 11 months
But
yeah, originally I was going to go even more insane with this, but I
think I've reached my own personal limit of financial insanity...

I got a rig standing beside me which cost me more than I care to admit 
But hey it is nice to plug in a new game and see the message "detecting
optimal settings" followed by "settings set to Ultra high" (or whatever
the game uses to describe maximum)

I hate the fan noise (my head explodes after a few hours) so I'll probably buy a notebook as my next PC.

Yeah
it is a **** in the summer, but luckily I have a good sound system to
go with it, voulume high enough and you dont hear it. Alternately some
good headphones and the volume up work even better.

This thing is... Loud

You should get a Mo-Ra3.
That'd clear it right up

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

Vox Draco wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...
Anderson and Hackett know about Shepard's dialog with Harbinger secondhand, because Shepard told them. We cant use Anderson's awareness of Harbinger as evidence because of that. 

But you raise another point that I personally feel lends itself as a narrative hint towards IT: Harbinger, who was set up to be the primary antagonist of the overarching plot by ME2, is entirely absent until the climax of ME3. Normally that is an unwise narrative move unless it serves a point of some kind, which without IT, it doesnt. 

Alright, I will truly embarrassing myself now: When did Shepard and Harbinger have a direct conversation with each other? I really can't remember...but then, *sigh* the years are taking their toll on me...

And yes, mentioning Harbinger in the last minutes but having him nothing to do actually, it is the epitome of anti-climatic for me, and one of the main reasons I still hope Bioware has an ace hidden in their sleeve...otherwise their failure is getting only bigger, and I feel too "delusional" right now to accept this!

If you complete the collector base before during the Arrival DLC the hologram at the end is of Harbinger instead of the Collector general faciliating a direct conversation between Shepard and Harbinger.

But yeah Harbinger was suprisingly absent from the game.

[Chashan]

Chiming in here, you people do make compelling enough a case that BW should at least give your efforts a polite nod in upcoming content...

HellishFiend wrote...

Vox Draco wrote...

Hello, I'd like to ask a question about ME2. I don't know if it has any relevance to IT, and surely it was discussed to death already at some point, but if so then I have missed it....like so many other things!

Harbinger's voice in ME2. Playing through it the first times I never thought much about it. I always assumed it is inside Shepard's mind and that nobody else actually heard it. That it was not "spoken" by Harbinger directly, but "projected" into my Shepards mind as well as to his collector-cronies?

At least I can't remember if anyone of the squaddies ever reacted to what he says, or comments on it. But then it is quite a long time ago I played ME2. Do they (the characters ingame) even mention Harbinger by name? He plops up so often and keeps mocking us, do the squaddies/Shepard/TIM ever refer to Harbinger at some point?

Maybe I had the totally wrong impression all along, but really, I always thought Harbinger spoke exclusively to Shepard in her head...which...makes me think...? if anyone can satisfy my curiousity, thanks in advance!

This is an excellent question and personally one I have been hoping to receive an answer to in the EC. Neither ME2 nor 3 clarifies this point. We never receive any evidence to indicate that anyone other than Shepard has ever communicated with Harbinger. To make it further suspicious, rewatch the scene with the Rannoch Reaper and watch how the camera vibrates and pulses when the Reaper is speaking to you. In addition, a character (usually Tali) will walk up behind Shepard during the scene, but the camera is careful to NOT show the Reaper in that shot. The camera never shows anyone but Shepard and the Reaper in the same shot while they are conversing. Could possibly be a hint that the conversation is not happening verbally. 

Far as I recall the codex stated that "Harbinger" made its name, or rather existence known to human survivors of Collector-raids - hence the tag's very human, as that is the closest approximation to what these survivors likened it to. Or maybe "Harbinger" thought it was cool.

Do any of the squad in ME2 somehow acknowledge Harbinger specifically, even between missions on the ship, or is it just the faceless "Collectors" to them?

Concerning the concept art-ish depiction of "Harbinger" on the datapad, I think that merely is reused. Besides, the tentacles/arms of the thing are not protruded like at the end, so it is not a particularly big deal in my view.


Either way, the scene with the defeated Rannoch destroyer - why no Sovereign class, and why was there no footslogger backup at least for the thing on Rannoch anyway aside from the Geth - does seem odd indeed in that regard, in so far that squaddies don't at least wonder what tongues Shepard speaks/how Shepard understands when interacting with the thing, similar to the damaged warning on Ilos in ME1.

Modifié par Chashan, 19 juin 2012 - 05:48 .

[Vox Draco]

byne wrote...
Shep and Harby talked for like a minute during Arrival.

Ah, alright...if IT would become reality and I keep my promise of playing everything through again and buying all my missing DLCs I guess I will have the pleasure of talking to him!

If you don't own Arrival, can Shepard still know his name, by the way? I mean beside Arrival is he ever reffered to in the game as "Harbinger, Master Reaper, at your service!" ? Sorry if I insist with all that...I guess that one IT-related discussion that featured the canon-ness of "Objekt Rho" was a little too much for me...

Edit: Looks one post above: Ah alright, codex information it is then...thank you!

Modifié par Vox Draco, 19 juin 2012 - 05:38 .

[HellishFiend]

Someone asked me in a PM if I ever have doubts about IT, and I figured you guys might be interested in my response:

Never doubted for more than a few seconds. Anytime I see anything circumstantially "tangible" that lends itself against IT in any way, I remind myself that from a narrative standpoint, IT makes 100% sense. All of the issues that people have with IT are based on non-narrative concerns. IT is quite literally, narrative nirvana. Or in common terms, the best damn storytelling experience ever conveyed through a videogame.

Now, what is Bioware's stance on the issue? Theyre sticking with their "Artistic vision" and "not changing the ending". That screams of narrative being their primary concern. I see that as one of the biggest hints toward IT, but unfortunately many ME players are not connoisseurs of literature, so that sort of hint flies over their head.

But rest assured, as someone that understands and appreciates narrative flow and subtlety, as well as being highly versed in the art of hiding lies within truths using semantics and secret context (dont ask how, lol, its a long, clandestine story), I can essentially promise you that IT is correct.

[D.Sharrah]

D.Sharrah wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

Snip...

Snip...

Ok...here is what I have so far...I know that I can see the connectiosn is my mind - and if you need me to try and explain anything I can.  There is some overlap with the concepts, but here it is...


 
 


Damn.  Not sure this is working...trying paste some word art from Word...anyone have any simple ideas on how to make it work?

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

HellishFiend wrote...

Someone asked me in a PM if I ever have doubts about IT, and I figured you guys might be interested in my response:

Never doubted for more than a few seconds. Anytime I see anything circumstantially "tangible" that lends itself against IT in any way, I remind myself that from a narrative standpoint, IT makes 100% sense. All of the issues that people have with IT are based on non-narrative concerns. IT is quite literally, narrative nirvana. Or in common terms, the best damn storytelling experience ever conveyed through a videogame.

Now, what is Bioware's stance on the issue? Theyre sticking with their "Artistic vision" and "not changing the ending". That screams of narrative being their primary concern. I see that as one of the biggest hints toward IT, but unfortunately many ME players are not connoisseurs of literature, so that sort of hint flies over their head.

But rest assured, as someone that understands and appreciates narrative flow and subtlety, as well as being highly versed in the art of hiding lies within truths using semantics and secret context (dont ask how, lol, its a long, clandestine story), I can essentially promise you that IT is correct.

Well said. IT fits too well, there are too many hints for me to consider the litteral interpretation true for any length of time.

[HellishFiend]

D.Sharrah wrote...

D.Sharrah wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

Snip...

Snip...

Ok...here is what I have so far...I know that I can see the connectiosn is my mind - and if you need me to try and explain anything I can.  There is some overlap with the concepts, but here it is...


 
 


Damn.  Not sure this is working...trying paste some word art from Word...anyone have any simple ideas on how to make it work?

As far as I know, wordart cant be converted into text. You may have to go into the wordart edit box and copy the text out of it from there...

[BatmanTurian]

HellishFiend wrote...

Someone asked me in a PM if I ever have doubts about IT, and I figured you guys might be interested in my response:

Never doubted for more than a few seconds. Anytime I see anything circumstantially "tangible" that lends itself against IT in any way, I remind myself that from a narrative standpoint, IT makes 100% sense. All of the issues that people have with IT are based on non-narrative concerns. IT is quite literally, narrative nirvana. Or in common terms, the best damn storytelling experience ever conveyed through a videogame.

Now, what is Bioware's stance on the issue? Theyre sticking with their "Artistic vision" and "not changing the ending". That screams of narrative being their primary concern. I see that as one of the biggest hints toward IT, but unfortunately many ME players are not connoisseurs of literature, so that sort of hint flies over their head.

But rest assured, as someone that understands and appreciates narrative flow and subtlety, as well as being highly versed in the art of hiding lies within truths using semantics and secret context (dont ask how, lol, its a long, clandestine story), I can essentially promise you that IT is correct.

These are my thoughts down to the letter on IT. IT is narratively viable and the one thing in the series the player has never experienced except from the outside looking in on people who were already indoctrinated. It's capable of turning you against yourself and using your own personality to agree with the Reapers on a Meta level. Why else are there Synthesis and Control threads? Bioware is probably on top of the world knowing their interactive story element experiment accomplished probably more than they ever imagined

Modifié par BatmanTurian, 19 juin 2012 - 05:43 .

[D.Sharrah]

Big Bad wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

Vox Draco wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...
This is an excellent question and personally one I have been hoping to receive an answer to in the EC. Neither ME2 nor 3 clarifies this point. We never receive any evidence to indicate that anyone other than Shepard has ever communicated with Harbinger. To make it further suspicious, rewatch the scene with the Rannoch Reaper and watch how the camera vibrates and pulses when the Reaper is speaking to you. In addition, a character (usually Tali) will walk up behind Shepard during the scene, but the camera is careful to NOT show the Reaper in that shot. The camera never shows anyone but Shepard and the Reaper in the same shot while they are conversing. Could possibly be a hint that the conversation is not happening verbally. 

So...there really isn't any "clarification" yet on this? Not even in the DLCs? When Anderson (or was it Hackett?) announced Harbinger is coming...then how does he know his name, actually? Is Harbinger ever brought up since the end of ME2 up to the end in ME3? I can't remember, but then I played ME3 only once three months ago...

To be fair, they could have gotten the name from Shepard's reports. But then again, according to Vega, the Alliance had a few run ins with the collectors as well so he may have announced it then as well.

Speaking of Vega and the Collectors, I am still confused as hell by the fact that he told Shep that Cerberus had been working with the Collectors back when they were abducting human colonists. Uhhh...what? If this doesn't get explained at some point, I will not be a happy camper.

It wasn't the only example of this given...in the Firewalker DLC, one of the scientists was working with the Collector's- in turn they had promised him that they would not hit the colony where his wife was...when I first heard this in the game, I wondered it it was the same scientist or a similar situation.  People have been know to do all sorts of crazy things when it comes to trying to protect their loved ones...

[HellishFiend]

BatmanTurian wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

Someone asked me in a PM if I ever have doubts about IT, and I figured you guys might be interested in my response:

Never doubted for more than a few seconds. Anytime I see anything circumstantially "tangible" that lends itself against IT in any way, I remind myself that from a narrative standpoint, IT makes 100% sense. All of the issues that people have with IT are based on non-narrative concerns. IT is quite literally, narrative nirvana. Or in common terms, the best damn storytelling experience ever conveyed through a videogame.

Now, what is Bioware's stance on the issue? Theyre sticking with their "Artistic vision" and "not changing the ending". That screams of narrative being their primary concern. I see that as one of the biggest hints toward IT, but unfortunately many ME players are not connoisseurs of literature, so that sort of hint flies over their head.

But rest assured, as someone that understands and appreciates narrative flow and subtlety, as well as being highly versed in the art of hiding lies within truths using semantics and secret context (dont ask how, lol, its a long, clandestine story), I can essentially promise you that IT is correct.

These are my thoughts down to the letter on IT. IT is narratively viable and the one thing in the series the player has never experienced except from the outside looking in on people who were already indoctrinated. It's capable of turning you against yourself and using your own personality to agree with the Reapers on a Meta level. Why else are there Synthesis and Control threads? Bioware is probably on top of the world knowing their interactive story element experiment accomplished probably more than they ever imagined

Glad to know I'm not the only one that understands it from that angle. :happy:

[paxxton]

@Vox Draco: You should put a link in your sig to the ME4 concept you presented some time ago. It was really good. You know, the one about Shepard reliving his life in his twisted mind.

Modifié par paxxton, 19 juin 2012 - 05:49 .