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[RADIUMEYEZ]

Bill Casey wrote...

Illusive Man: I know them. I know how they think.

Auto Shepard: I think you've gotten a little too close to the enemy.

Illusive Man: No... I'm saying they've got it right. Why kill when you can control?

PARAGON PATH

Shepard: You've been spending too much time with the enemy. They're dragging you over to their side--their way of thinking.

Illusive Man: No, I just... see things differently.

RENEGADE PATH

Shepard: The Reapers have it right? You're indoctrinated! You're doing just what they want!

Illusive Man: I could say the same of you. Wasting time on a war that can't be won.

Shepard: At least I'm fighting!

Illusive Man: Never question my ability to fight! I've been fighting them longer than you can imagine!

OOOOhh good catcht here.

[HellishFiend]

FellishBeast wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...

I just noticed the Keeper hallway flickers like London does...

www.youtube.com/watch

Also, I highly reccommend checking out the "waterfalls of blood" in the chasm before meeting Illusive Man and Anderson. You can see them by turning around...

Jesus, how did we miss that? Good catch!

I didn't see anything. 

Look at the floor. It pulses the same way the backdrop pulses when you wake up after harby's beam. 

[DirtyPhoenix]

Wait.. Cortez can die???

[HellishFiend]

FellishBeast wrote...

Oh, interesting, actually....hmmm. Is he really saying that about "you're indoctrinated?" That would be cool, though

I think Bill is implying the subtext there is that Shepard is battling his indoctrination and TIM is not. Also that TIM has been dealing with indoctrination for a lot longer than Shepard. 

Modifié par HellishFiend, 20 juin 2012 - 07:02 .

[Bill Casey]

FellishBeast wrote...

Oh, interesting, actually....hmmm. Is he really saying that about "you're indoctrinated?" That would be cool, though

Clicky

[HellishFiend]

Bill, I value your insight, so see if you can tackle this problem for me. It's a tricky one. I'm trying to figure out how to transition from the subject of Reaper morals/philosophies (basically, their perspective on Control/Synth/Evolution/etc), to the subject of Sacrifice as it pertains to Organics. Specifically how Organics are consistently willing to employ sacrifice to defend their beliefs, morals and way of life.

I'm having a hard time thinking of a graceful transition between the two subjects. A battle? A particular dialog/conversation between two characters? Cutscene? I'm not sure.

[gunslinger_ruiz]

HellishFiend wrote...

Bill, I value your insight, so see if you can tackle this problem for me. It's a tricky one. I'm trying to figure out how to transition from the subject of Reaper morals/philosophies (basically, their perspective on Control/Synth/Evolution/etc), to the subject of Sacrifice as it pertains to Organics. Specifically how Organics are consistently willing to employ sacrifice to defend their beliefs, morals and way of life.

I'm having a hard time thinking of a graceful transition between the two subjects. A battle? A particular dialog/conversation between two characters? Cutscene? I'm not sure.

Concept of sacrifice doesn't just apply to organics in ME3, keep in mind Legion's sacrifice for his "people" and EDI's willingness to risk non-functionality for Joker and the crew. Maybe you can incorperate those in the transition? Then again Legion's sacrifice (or execution) is a bit of a hot topic debate.

[HellishFiend]

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

Bill, I value your insight, so see if you can tackle this problem for me. It's a tricky one. I'm trying to figure out how to transition from the subject of Reaper morals/philosophies (basically, their perspective on Control/Synth/Evolution/etc), to the subject of Sacrifice as it pertains to Organics. Specifically how Organics are consistently willing to employ sacrifice to defend their beliefs, morals and way of life.

I'm having a hard time thinking of a graceful transition between the two subjects. A battle? A particular dialog/conversation between two characters? Cutscene? I'm not sure.

Concept of sacrifice doesn't just apply to organics in ME3, keep in mind Legion's sacrifice for his "people" and EDI's willingness to risk non-functionality for Joker and the crew. Maybe you can incorperate those in the transition? Then again Legion's sacrifice (or execution) is a bit of a hot topic debate.

Great idea, an example of Synthetic sacrifice sounds like the perfect transition! Way to steal Bill's thunder. 

Kidding, of course. Bill, if you have any thoughts I'd love to hear yours too. 

[Bill Casey]

Harbinger: “Sentient beings need never fear pain.”

Harbinger: “There is no pain.”

Harbinger: “This body's pain is irrelevant.”

Harbinger: “Pain is an illusion.”

Illusive Man: "Begin the procedure. No anesthetic."

[FellishBeast]

I'm watching the whole video you linked, Bill, and something that struck me as odd is when Shepard asks TIM why he doesn't just control the Reapers with his new powers instead of wasting his time with us, and he says "I need you to believe," and just continues monologuing. In the previous conversation you have with him he basically says he's done with you, and now he's trying to convince you he's right. Seems odd.

[FellishBeast]

Bill Casey wrote...

Harbinger: “Sentient beings need never fear pain.”

Harbinger: “There is no pain.”

Harbinger: “This body's pain is irrelevant.”

Harbinger: “Pain is an illusion.”

Illusive Man: "Begin the procedure. No anesthetic."

Very cool. But do you have an inkling as to what it might mean? x]

[gunslinger_ruiz]

FellishBeast wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...

Harbinger: “Sentient beings need never fear pain.”

Harbinger: “There is no pain.”

Harbinger: “This body's pain is irrelevant.”

Harbinger: “Pain is an illusion.”

Illusive Man: "Begin the procedure. No anesthetic."

Very cool. But do you have an inkling as to what it might mean? x]

Furthers The Illusive Man's fall to the Reapers, becoming "one of them" I think. Or rather a husk for them to control, "This body's pain is irrelevent" said when possessed Collector's body is killed.

[Bill Casey]

HellishFiend wrote...
Great idea, an example of Synthetic sacrifice sounds like the perfect transition! Way to steal Bill's thunder. [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/wink.png[/smilie]

Kidding, of course. Bill, if you have any thoughts I'd love to hear yours too. 

EDI - Because the reapers are repulsive. They are devoted to nothing but self preservation. I am different.

To Victus - Haven't my men sacrificed enough... Sacrifice has no honor if the mission fails

Modifié par Bill Casey, 20 juin 2012 - 07:40 .

[HellishFiend]

Bill Casey wrote...

Victus - Sacrifice has no honor if the mission fails

EDI - Because the reapers are repulsive. They are devoted to nothing but self preservation. I am different.

Thanks!

[HellishFiend]

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

FellishBeast wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...

Harbinger: “Sentient beings need never fear pain.”

Harbinger: “There is no pain.”

Harbinger: “This body's pain is irrelevant.”

Harbinger: “Pain is an illusion.”

Illusive Man: "Begin the procedure. No anesthetic."

Very cool. But do you have an inkling as to what it might mean? x]

Furthers The Illusive Man's fall to the Reapers, becoming "one of them" I think. Or rather a husk for them to control, "This body's pain is irrelevent" said when possessed Collector's body is killed.

Yeah, it's another example of how TIM is starting to employ Reaper philosophies. 

[HellishFiend]

FellishBeast wrote...

I'm watching the whole video you linked, Bill, and something that struck me as odd is when Shepard asks TIM why he doesn't just control the Reapers with his new powers instead of wasting his time with us, and he says "I need you to believe," and just continues monologuing. In the previous conversation you have with him he basically says he's done with you, and now he's trying to convince you he's right. Seems odd.

Thats actually a core piece of evidence behind the theory that the ending takes place in Shepard's mind. 

TIM in that entire scene is 100% focused on convincing Shepard to agree with him. Nothing else. That is totally against his character. And to further, Shepard's verbal attacks hurt TIM more than the gunshot hurts Anderson. The gunshot hurts both of them, by the way, and I have compelling evidence of that, which I can post if enough people are interested. 

[gunslinger_ruiz]

That line from EDI, "I am different" always gets my heart pounding a bit. Love the delivery and the emotion.

[FellishBeast]

HellishFiend wrote...

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

FellishBeast wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...

Harbinger: “Sentient beings need never fear pain.”

Harbinger: “There is no pain.”

Harbinger: “This body's pain is irrelevant.”

Harbinger: “Pain is an illusion.”

Illusive Man: "Begin the procedure. No anesthetic."

Very cool. But do you have an inkling as to what it might mean? x]

Furthers The Illusive Man's fall to the Reapers, becoming "one of them" I think. Or rather a husk for them to control, "This body's pain is irrelevent" said when possessed Collector's body is killed.

Yeah, it's another example of how TIM is starting to employ Reaper philosophies. 

Hehe, I never doubted his dedication

Did anyone see my post above about "I need you to believe?"

Modifié par FellishBeast, 20 juin 2012 - 07:43 .

[FellishBeast]

HellishFiend wrote...

FellishBeast wrote...

I'm watching the whole video you linked, Bill, and something that struck me as odd is when Shepard asks TIM why he doesn't just control the Reapers with his new powers instead of wasting his time with us, and he says "I need you to believe," and just continues monologuing. In the previous conversation you have with him he basically says he's done with you, and now he's trying to convince you he's right. Seems odd.

Thats actually a core piece of evidence behind the theory that the ending takes place in Shepard's mind. 

TIM in that entire scene is 100% focused on convincing Shepard to agree with him. Nothing else. That is totally against his character. And to further, Shepard's verbal attacks hurt TIM more than the gunshot hurts Anderson. The gunshot hurts both of them, by the way, and I have compelling evidence of that, which I can post if enough people are interested. 

Yeah, I find it very compelling!

I was aware of that. That whole scene is whacked..lol.

[HellishFiend]

FellishBeast wrote...

Yeah, I find it very compelling!

I was aware of that. That whole scene is whacked..lol.

Yeah, there are at least a dozen things just in that conversation alone that call the reality of it into doubt. Though I was surprised when I discovered the two grunts from the gunshot were actually Anderson and TIM. Seems like a risky clue to put in there, but I guess not since no one really made a big deal about it. 

[gunslinger_ruiz]

HellishFiend wrote...

FellishBeast wrote...

Yeah, I find it very compelling!

I was aware of that. That whole scene is whacked..lol.

Yeah, there are at least a dozen things just in that conversation alone that call the reality of it into doubt. Though I was surprised when I discovered the two grunts from the gunshot were actually Anderson and TIM. Seems like a risky clue to put in there, but I guess not since no one really made a big deal about it. 

Puzzle....it's all a big puzzle o_o
Why would TIM monologue at all, why wouldn't he just get on with it, he would only NEED you to believe if it was the only  way to stop you...or stall for time...
...Puzzle o_O

[FellishBeast]

HellishFiend wrote...

FellishBeast wrote...

Yeah, I find it very compelling!

I was aware of that. That whole scene is whacked..lol.

Yeah, there are at least a dozen things just in that conversation alone that call the reality of it into doubt. Though I was surprised when I discovered the two grunts from the gunshot were actually Anderson and TIM. Seems like a risky clue to put in there, but I guess not since no one really made a big deal about it. 

I would like to see someone prove there are two grunts there. I mean, I hear them, but is there a way to separate the sounds or something? Like looking at the files? Eh, that sounds tedious for such a small piece of evidence, but I think it's solid.

[prettz]

ah, my gaming pc died now I feel half cut off from the community

[gunslinger_ruiz]

FellishBeast wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

FellishBeast wrote...

Yeah, I find it very compelling!

I was aware of that. That whole scene is whacked..lol.

Yeah, there are at least a dozen things just in that conversation alone that call the reality of it into doubt. Though I was surprised when I discovered the two grunts from the gunshot were actually Anderson and TIM. Seems like a risky clue to put in there, but I guess not since no one really made a big deal about it. 

I would like to see someone prove there are two grunts there. I mean, I hear them, but is there a way to separate the sounds or something? Like looking at the files? Eh, that sounds tedious for such a small piece of evidence, but I think it's solid.

I personally don't think the second grunt comes from TIM, but I don't know who else it could have come from so it most likely does come from him. It's too loud to be an echo from Anderson and it plays with Femshep as well. If they went through the trouble of changing the breaht scene to femshep with both the body and gasp they could've easily changed it to femshep grunting in tat scene.

Modifié par gunslinger_ruiz, 20 juin 2012 - 08:01 .

[HellishFiend]

FellishBeast wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

FellishBeast wrote...

Yeah, I find it very compelling!

I was aware of that. That whole scene is whacked..lol.

Yeah, there are at least a dozen things just in that conversation alone that call the reality of it into doubt. Though I was surprised when I discovered the two grunts from the gunshot were actually Anderson and TIM. Seems like a risky clue to put in there, but I guess not since no one really made a big deal about it. 

I would like to see someone prove there are two grunts there. I mean, I hear them, but is there a way to separate the sounds or something? Like looking at the files? Eh, that sounds tedious for such a small piece of evidence, but I think it's solid.

I did just say I had proof... The grunts are separated. One of them is in the voice track, the other is in the sound effects track. Anyone can hear them both individually by playing the scene with one or the other muted. One is clearly Anderson and the other is clearly TIM.