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Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark II!


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#23376
MaximizedAction

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Fact: that's the second time the weekend challenge has been announced via the ANN.

#23377
HellishFiend

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llbountyhunter wrote...

Well, The white light marks both transitions and the end of dreams. (Just like the geth consensus mision, you see it several times)



Good call. I forgot the white light marked transitions in the consensus. 

#23378
Bill Casey

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HagarIshay wrote...

Wait... Shouldn't there be a flashlight or something at the crash scene? That white light? I just watched it. There isn't any. It's goes stright into black.

Maybe I'm mistaken (quite possible) but isn't one of the evidences is the white light?

The white circle and musical cue from the dreams is the first massive tip off something's not right, but the dream sequences start with black...

Modifié par Bill Casey, 20 juin 2012 - 06:30 .


#23379
HellishFiend

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ThisOneIsPunny wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

Anyone have thoughts as to how Savage could tie in to SP? The "with so many planets conquered in Council space" bit implies they are deep into the storyline, but it is vague.

Arias mercenaries?


Yeah, seems likely, however you can do those at any point in the storyline, so we cant use that to narrow down the MP events to a specific point in the chronology.

The Cyone mission (N7: Fuel Reactors) in sp came to mind, considering it's an important fueling station. It's not in the Terminus systems, though, and it only becomes available after the geth dreadnought mission. So I don't know, did everyone connect Operation Silencer to the fall of Thessia or was it seen as the beginning of the Asari's change in tactics that eventually lead to the fall of Thessia?


Could go either way, I think. But much more powerful are the maps in the DLC. Since we have Firebase Goddess, I think most are assuming we are past the fall of Thessia already. 

#23380
Ageless Face

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llbountyhunter wrote...

Well, The white light marks both transitions and the end of dreams. (Just like the geth consensus mision, you see it several times)


All right, makes sense.

Thanks for the answer :).

#23381
paxxton

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I wonder why this thread is moving so slowly today. Is it because of this fellow:
http://www.youtube.c...lIQKquNk#t=152s

Modifié par paxxton, 20 juin 2012 - 06:51 .


#23382
HellishFiend

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paxxton wrote...

I wonder why this thread is moving so slow today. Is it because of this fellow:
http://www.youtube.c...lIQKquNk#t=152s


I'll post a quick evidence vid here in a few minutes that might get people talking. 

#23383
Big Bad

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llbountyhunter wrote...

Big Bad wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

Big Bad wrote...

I actually kinda disagree about that. Shepherd may have to make all tbe tough decisions herself, but as far as I can recall she always has friends backing her up (ok, not during Arrival, but that's just an exception)...except during the ending of ME3. That is actually second biggest problem I have with the literal ending - Shepard has to die alone. It just pisses me off.


I kinda agree with that, but the ending is the climax of the trilogy, so it has far more weight than any decision that involves the help of your friends, unfortunately...:(

Yeah, that makes sense, but the fact that Shepard has to make this decision and then just dies feels to me like the emotional equivalent of a swift kick to the junk.

Of course, IT solves this problem. ;)

OT: Does anybody else ever post here using an android phone? I have to when I am at work, and it is an unbelievably frustrating experience.


Get google chrome beta for android, works better than on my ipad.

Almost as good as desktop...

Sadly, google chrome beta cannot be run on my galaxy s2 right now. Maybe that will change once I finally get Ice Cream Sandwich, but it's not possible right now.

#23384
llbountyhunter

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Big Bad wrote...

llbountyhunter wrote...

Big Bad wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

Big Bad wrote...

I actually kinda disagree about that. Shepherd may have to make all tbe tough decisions herself, but as far as I can recall she always has friends backing her up (ok, not during Arrival, but that's just an exception)...except during the ending of ME3. That is actually second biggest problem I have with the literal ending - Shepard has to die alone. It just pisses me off.


I kinda agree with that, but the ending is the climax of the trilogy, so it has far more weight than any decision that involves the help of your friends, unfortunately...:(

Yeah, that makes sense, but the fact that Shepard has to make this decision and then just dies feels to me like the emotional equivalent of a swift kick to the junk.

Of course, IT solves this problem. ;)

OT: Does anybody else ever post here using an android phone? I have to when I am at work, and it is an unbelievably frustrating experience.


Get google chrome beta for android, works better than on my ipad.

Almost as good as desktop...

Sadly, google chrome beta cannot be run on my galaxy s2 right now. Maybe that will change once I finally get Ice Cream Sandwich, but it's not possible right now.


But... i have ics on my s2....

Have you connected to kies? 

Or you can just use odin..

#23385
HellishFiend

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Anyone else think those falling scraps look like the ones from the Dreams and London?

#23386
MaximizedAction

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HellishFiend wrote...

 

Anyone else think those falling scraps look like the ones from the Dreams and London?


There's definitelly an intention behind that.

The first interpretation that comes into my mind: In that ME1 scene, according to the roommap, we're inside of a Reaper. Maybe, this means then that in London, in a symbolic sense, we are, too. Hence: Reaper induced hallucination.

Of course, flying ash from all the fires around also makes sense from a literal standpoint...but so would the dreams for a highly stressed person...but this is not the goal of this topic.

Modifié par MaximizedAction, 20 juin 2012 - 06:50 .


#23387
HellishFiend

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MaximizedAction wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

 

Anyone else think those falling scraps look like the ones from the Dreams and London?


There's definitelly an intention behind that.


I think so too. Could be nothing, but it looks far too similar to just accept it as a coincidence right away. 

#23388
paxxton

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HellishFiend wrote...

 

Anyone else think those falling scraps look like the ones from the Dreams and London?

Similar but their aerodynamics is different. They fall in a straight line and faster than those in ME3. Definately worth further investigation. The difference in movement might be due to technical optimizations (simplified simulation) made by BioWare while developing ME1. But story-wise those flakes might mean the same as those in dreams and London. If this is the case the implications are enormous. Actually, you have to remember there is Sovereign (a Reaper!) attached to the tower just a few meters above Shepard's head which as it so happens contains his mind.

Modifié par paxxton, 20 juin 2012 - 07:00 .


#23389
FFZero

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HellishFiend wrote...

 

Anyone else think those falling scraps look like the ones from the Dreams and London?



The textures used are different, but you're right that the do look very similar, so it's possible that the meaning behind them is the same as in the dreams and London.

#23390
HellishFiend

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Do you guys think it could symbolize anything in particular? Like a similar style of confrontation? i.e. battling/overcoming indoctrination?

#23391
Big Bad

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llbountyhunter wrote...

Big Bad wrote...

llbountyhunter wrote...

Big Bad wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

Big Bad wrote...

I actually kinda disagree about that. Shepherd may have to make all tbe tough decisions herself, but as far as I can recall she always has friends backing her up (ok, not during Arrival, but that's just an exception)...except during the ending of ME3. That is actually second biggest problem I have with the literal ending - Shepard has to die alone. It just pisses me off.


I kinda agree with that, but the ending is the climax of the trilogy, so it has far more weight than any decision that involves the help of your friends, unfortunately...:(

Yeah, that makes sense, but the fact that Shepard has to make this decision and then just dies feels to me like the emotional equivalent of a swift kick to the junk.

Of course, IT solves this problem. ;)

OT: Does anybody else ever post here using an android phone? I have to when I am at work, and it is an unbelievably frustrating experience.


Get google chrome beta for android, works better than on my ipad.

Almost as good as desktop...

Sadly, google chrome beta cannot be run on my galaxy s2 right now. Maybe that will change once I finally get Ice Cream Sandwich, but it's not possible right now.


But... i have ics on my s2....

Have you connected to kies? 

Or you can just use odin..

In the US at least, my carrier (AT&T) hasn't released ICS for their galaxy s 2s.

#23392
paxxton

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HellishFiend wrote...

Do you guys think it could symbolize anything in particular? Like a similar style of confrontation? i.e. battling/overcoming indoctrination?

The first though that comes to my mind is unsurprisingly that it was Shepard hallucinating (induced by the Prothean beacon on Eden Prime)...

Modifié par paxxton, 20 juin 2012 - 07:48 .


#23393
Fiery Phoenix

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Big Bad wrote...

I actually kinda disagree about that. Shepherd may have to make all tbe tough decisions herself, but as far as I can recall she always has friends backing her up (ok, not during Arrival, but that's just an exception)...except during the ending of ME3. That is actually second biggest problem I have with the literal ending - Shepard has to die alone. It just pisses me off.

Because Shep's "death" was the definition of contrived and artificial. They just wanted to get rid of the character because ME3 is the "end". It doesn't even make any sense.

#23394
FFZero

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HellishFiend wrote...

Do you guys think it could symbolize anything in particular? Like a similar style of confrontation? i.e. battling/overcoming indoctrination?


Just a thought, but maybe instead of it symbolising Shepard fighting off Indoctrination maybe it’s symbolising the start.

#23395
paxxton

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Maybe they are leaves from the trees blown off by the blasts.

#23396
HellishFiend

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FFZero wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

Do you guys think it could symbolize anything in particular? Like a similar style of confrontation? i.e. battling/overcoming indoctrination?


Just a thought, but maybe instead of it symbolising Shepard fighting off Indoctrination maybe it’s symbolising the start.



Well what I meant is, Saren is trying to fight off his indoctrination while Shep talks him down. The falling scraps in that scene could very well be real, which is why Shep's subconscious would associate it with the battle with indoctrination. 

Modifié par HellishFiend, 20 juin 2012 - 07:28 .


#23397
D.Sharrah

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HellishFiend wrote...

FFZero wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

Do you guys think it could symbolize anything in particular? Like a similar style of confrontation? i.e. battling/overcoming indoctrination?


Just a thought, but maybe instead of it symbolising Shepard fighting off Indoctrination maybe it’s symbolising the start.



Well what I meant is, Saren is trying to fight off his indoctrination while Shep talks him down. The falling scraps in that scene could very well be real, which is why Shep's subconscious would associate it with the battle with indoctrination. 


It could be...but I think that we have to be careful that we don't try to read too much into everything...lest we may pull a number 23.

#23398
Andromidius

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Playing through ME2, and I noticed some eere similarities between the Derelict Reaper and the Proto-Reaper room on Cronos Station.

The platforms and 'feel' to them feel similar to me. Not to mention there's a dead Reaper involved with both of these places. And you meet Legion in both places (assuming you hand him over to Cerberus, at least).

Not a huge connection, but it certainly feels very... Strange.

#23399
paxxton

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D.Sharrah wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

FFZero wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

Do you guys think it could symbolize anything in particular? Like a similar style of confrontation? i.e. battling/overcoming indoctrination?


Just a thought, but maybe instead of it symbolising Shepard fighting off Indoctrination maybe it’s symbolising the start.



Well what I meant is, Saren is trying to fight off his indoctrination while Shep talks him down. The falling scraps in that scene could very well be real, which is why Shep's subconscious would associate it with the battle with indoctrination. 


It could be...but I think that we have to be careful that we don't try to read too much into everything...lest we may pull a number 23.

What HellishFiend says is possible, unlikely, but possible. Posted ImagePosted ImagePosted Image

EDIT: If someone didn't get the quote, I think that it's very likely.

Modifié par paxxton, 20 juin 2012 - 08:02 .


#23400
paxxton

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Andromidius wrote...

Playing through ME2, and I noticed some eere similarities between the Derelict Reaper and the Proto-Reaper room on Cronos Station.

The platforms and 'feel' to them feel similar to me. Not to mention there's a dead Reaper involved with both of these places. And you meet Legion in both places (assuming you hand him over to Cerberus, at least).

Not a huge connection, but it certainly feels very... Strange.

I suppose because both facilities are Cerberus.