55528 réponses à ce sujet

[Starbuck8]

mrfinke wrote...

Melancholic wrote...

So, I just completed a full playthrough of the trilogy for my 60 year old mother (she's really into Garrus). She went into the ME3 ending blind, with absolutely no idea what to expect. We picked destroy with high EMS. Afterwards she said she believes everything after Harbinger's beam was a dream. I did not have to explain the indoctrination theory. It seemed obvious to her in a "duh" kind of way.

Such a conclusion coming from a completely unbiased person gave me a lot of hope.

Ha, that is awesome. I wish I could get my parents to play games.

Anyway, yep that is what my friend thought on his first playthrough without hearing anything about IDT.

That IS awesome

[Big Bad]

Starbuck8 wrote...

paxxton wrote...

Starbuck8 wrote...

paxxton wrote...
You didn't read it before playing ME3 for the first time, did you?

My God paxxton, your quote pyramids are slowing down my Alienware netbook....

I'll cut it in half the next time I post . Did you say Alienware NETbook?

Yes. It's like a gaming netbook, if there ever was one. Christmas present from the boyfriend

Damn, he sounds like a keeper (not an ME Keeper! )!

[Destructorlio]

Naruana wrote...

I know, but the EC wasn't something they had planned from the beginning. They only made it because people were flying into fanboy rages over the endings instead of intelligently examining them. If IT was their intention from the beginning, then there must be some more DLC that includes the real ending somewhere down the line. That's what I'm asking about.

No. This could not be more wrong. IT was planned from the beginning. We know this because two days after the game's release, Gamble tweeted: "If you knew what we had planned, you'd never lose your copy." We know this because the game is ridden with evidence that the end sequence is not real. This has obviously been planned ahead. The EC is not a reaction to fanboy rag. The EC would have happened regardlessly.

HagarIshay wrote...

Question.

Is there a difference between choosing synthesis or control acording to the IT?

 

In intention, yes. In reality? No, I think you end up just as indoctrinated.

HellishFiend wrote...

The most common belief at this time is that partial hallucinations (like waking nightmares/dreams) starts at Cronos station, and that the full hallucination begins at the mako crash (the one right before the charge to the beam). There are a few who believe that Cronos is the start of a full hallucination, but that seems unlikely to me. 

 

I'm still of the opinion that the full hallucination begins when you get hit by the beam. I haven't seen anything compelling from Cronos station that would indicate it wasn't real.

BansheeOwnage wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

And the next pack will be Earth.  If you believe that guy who was right about the Rebellion pack.

Yes and I think it's likely that EC will be soon after that.

 

Agreed. I think they'll have a trailer/launch date for the EC at Comicon (July 12), and the Earth DLC pack will be about 2 weeks before that. I wouldn't be surprised if the trailer has some serious IT evidence in it.

Melancholic wrote...

So, I just completed a full playthrough of the trilogy for my 60 year old mother (she's really into Garrus). She went into the ME3 ending blind, with absolutely no idea what to expect. We picked destroy with high EMS. Afterwards she said she believes everything after Harbinger's beam was a dream. I did not have to explain the indoctrination theory. It seemed obvious to her in a "duh" kind of way.

Such a conclusion coming from a completely unbiased person gave me a lot of hope.

 

That's a cool story! I knew something was a bit 'wrong' with the ending, but IT really clarified that feeling with me. Impressive that your mother clued into it. Is it possible that games have sort of... 'trained' us to take everything at face value? Have they dumbed us down a bit? That's been a really common response to IT, not the logic of it, just the idea that a game company would take such a massive gamble seems unthinkable to them. Has this what the gaming industry has become- a place which not only won't take risks, but a place where even the idea of taking a risk seems mipossible to believe?

If so... then Bioware deserves even more credit for doing this.

[MaximizedAction]

Melancholic wrote...

So, I just completed a full playthrough of the trilogy for my 60 year old mother (she's really into Garrus). She went into the ME3 ending blind, with absolutely no idea what to expect. We picked destroy with high EMS. Afterwards she said she believes everything after Harbinger's beam was a dream. I did not have to explain the indoctrination theory. It seemed obvious to her in a "duh" kind of way.

Such a conclusion coming from a completely unbiased person gave me a lot of hope.

Oh, that's a nice story.

Shorty after I got caught in the euphory after having found out about the possibility of IT, I decided to tell my mom about everything surrounding this ending. She isn't a gamer, but likes movies, so she especially doesn't know a thing about the ME franchise. I decided to do a little experiment and played everything from the run to the beam on while she was watching it.

She of course couldn't spot the things we know because we know how ME has been and how the literal ending of ME3 is little of that.
But she could comment on the use of camera and sound (which I told her to do, to look at it as a movie). Her conclusion: it had the typical movie techniques for showing that someone's dreaming.

She insists that I keep informing her about the developments on this whole fiasco. Yeah, BioWare got everyone speculating.

[Starbuck8]

Big Bad wrote...

Starbuck8 wrote...

paxxton wrote...

Starbuck8 wrote...

paxxton wrote...
You didn't read it before playing ME3 for the first time, did you?

My God paxxton, your quote pyramids are slowing down my Alienware netbook....

I'll cut it in half the next time I post . Did you say Alienware NETbook?

Yes. It's like a gaming netbook, if there ever was one. Christmas present from the boyfriend

Damn, he sounds like a keeper (not an ME Keeper! )!

Lol why did I automatically think of an ME keeper? Too much Mass Effect on my brain!

And yes he is <3

Side note: Slow day today on this thread. Actually may have a chance to catch up from yesterday!

[Starbuck8]

@MaximizedAction
Hey I'm catching up on yesterday's convos, trying to skip through the trolling and off-topic stuff and all that (lol), and I was reading your posts about the RGB colors at the end. Still got more to read, but I'd thought I'd mention that the most notable instance of the RGB on consoles in ME3 that I have noticed is in TIM base, in his holo-room or whatever it is. During a cut scene, forget which one, the camera goes right next to or underneath a console, and you can clearly see it split into RGB layers. Anyway, in case you wanted to screen shot it or speculate some more.

Modifié par Starbuck8, 21 juin 2012 - 01:16 .

[Rifneno]

deltacypresss wrote...

I have a feeling that if we analyze the all the missions like we have the last two, then we would find a lot of in inconsistencies. That's the nature of a video game.

That's been said a lot. A LOT. Almost half the amount of times we've got someone on their first or second post go, "what will you guys do if IT doesn't turn out to be true?" And if I had a nickel for everytime that happened, I'd be able to fund a study to create the first ever time machine, which I would use to go back in time and kill every person that said it. Don't worry about reality being shredded by the ensuing paradox. Even an asari lifespan isn't long enough to spend more than 20 seconds with every person that popped in and said, "what if EC shows IT isn't true?" I could never hope to make a dent in their numbers. Their numbers darken the sky of every world.

But I digress. While it's been said a great many times, it's never been proven. Or, to my knowledge, even attempt to have been proven. Which is pretty telling since the challenge has been made to literalists time and again. Until I actually see an analysis of other parts of the series, parts we know are real, that bear the same degree of strange inconsistencies which all point toward the same thing, then I don't give any credence to the "you can find this stuff anywhere" notion that's often put forward.

Melancholic wrote...

So, I just completed a full playthrough of the trilogy for my 60 year old mother (she's really into Garrus). She went into the ME3 ending blind, with absolutely no idea what to expect. We picked destroy with high EMS. Afterwards she said she believes everything after Harbinger's beam was a dream. I did not have to explain the indoctrination theory. It seemed obvious to her in a "duh" kind of way.

Such a conclusion coming from a completely unbiased person gave me a lot of hope.

That is awesome. ... Oh, the part about her realizing it was a hallucination too. I meant Garrus' range of appeal. Garrus FTW. Screw the little blue babies, I want EC to have an alcohol-fueled celebration with the greatest turian there ever was.

... Man. I can't even get my 60-something year old mother to grasp cut and paste. Seriously.

Destructorlio wrote...

No. This could not be more wrong. IT was planned from the beginning. We know this because two days after the game's release, Gamble tweeted: "If you knew what we had planned, you'd never lose your copy." We know this because the game is ridden with evidence that the end sequence is not real. This has obviously been planned ahead. The EC is not a reaction to fanboy rag. The EC would have happened regardlessly.

QFT. I so tire of hearing that EC wasn't planned because they didn't go "okay, you caught us, we're already working on the indoctrination reveal."

Do you guys still have your ticket stubs from when you saw Star Wars Episode V: Darth Vader is Luke Skywalker's Father? ... What? They didn't spoil that before release? The hell you say! BRB, going to watch the season primere of Simpsons Season 7, episode titled "Maggie Shot Mr. Burns." ... What the hell, that one's wrong too?!

[Fingertrip]

My mother who's 57 that I've played Mass Effect WITH literally said the same thing when we were playing the last segment of the game, I was at first abit speculative over it and tried eventually to look for answer and start piece the pieces of the puzzle together. One thing we both sprung to mind was the Rachni Queen mentioning the oily shadows and the dream segments felt abit odd.

She's not the unbias elderly-gamer either to most degree, but I find it also fun how she came to the conclussion of previous memories and experiences and try to adapt them into the future and see if Bioware were clever enough to unfold such an exciting and intriguing universe with such a rich story and whatnot.

A friend of mine has the same experience, but I don't believe they've come very far into the game. Last time I asked, was like a month ago- and they just started off. I'm eager to ask him about what he thought, my guess is he might take everything at face-value, since that's the kind of guy he is

[Andromidius]

Melancholic wrote...

So, I just completed a full playthrough of the trilogy for my 60 year old mother (she's really into Garrus). She went into the ME3 ending blind, with absolutely no idea what to expect. We picked destroy with high EMS. Afterwards she said she believes everything after Harbinger's beam was a dream. I did not have to explain the indoctrination theory. It seemed obvious to her in a "duh" kind of way.

Such a conclusion coming from a completely unbiased person gave me a lot of hope.

Cool beans.  I won't take your story as 100% truth (this is the internet after all), but if that's what happened that's very awesome.

This either means that the halluncination/indoctrination plot is obvious (and well crafted), or your mother has a very colourful imagination.  Or perhaps both.

Regardless, its a nice thing to hear!

[Lokanaiya]

Rifneno wrote...

Hmm. I hate to keep harping on this (go ahead, call my BS, it's okay) but now that I think about it, EDI being the Luna VI could be part of the guilt trip hallucination series. Only difference being that one wasn't a real mistake. Riddle me these:

1. Why would EDI tell Shepard that she was made from parts of Sovereign's wreckage but not that she was also from that VI? The former is much more "oh God no, Skynet is launching all the nukes!" than the latter. In fact given the situation, the Luna VI wasn't bad at all. It was just very confused. Why would you admit to being a Cthulhu clone but not one of a confused VI that only killed some people that it had good reason to think was in self defense.

2. How did the VI become an AI? She said it was confusing becoming self-aware under fire. How did she spontaneously become self-aware? It happened with the geth because they're designed to get smarter as they network together. Enough of them networked to have the intelligence (processing power?) to become self aware. There's no such good explanation for the Luna VI if this story is true. It just... happened. In fact, if it only barely managed the intelligence to be self-aware then it should have lost it when Shepard started destroying servers. But reducing its hardware to a fraction of its original power didn't change a thing.

3. Why did Cerberus use it? Everytime Cerberus does something incredibly stupid with something incredibly dangerous, it's because they were trying to utilize the power of something. They wanted the rachni for shock troopers because rachni are incredible troopers. They want to use Reaper technology because it's super advanced and powerful. Where's the awesome power of a VI that switched to live rounds when unsuspecting soldiers were in a training ground turned killing ground?

But where it does make sense is as the Reapers trying to put doubt into Shepard's mind as to their own redeeming qualities. One thing the Reapers and the Luna VI have in common is that they're both murderous computers that have no apparent redeeming qualities. But if the Luna VI can become one of Shepard's closest friends and most trusted allies, maybe the Reapers have potential too.

Wow, good catch. That's a pretty big plot hole if Cronos isn't a dream.

[BansheeOwnage]

Lokanaiya wrote...

Wow, good catch. That's a pretty big plot hole if Cronos isn't a dream.

That VI thing came across as odd as soon as I heard it too.

[ZerebusPrime]

EDI being the Luna VI makes little sense. Miranda makes a point of telling a Renegade Shepard that his experiences with the Alliance's Hannibal project on the moon has understandably biased his experience with AI's. The Mass Effect Wiki says that EDI is this Hannibal VI with added Reaper technology (and presumably a great many program constraints), but I would imagine that this revelation should have come in ME2 after EDI becomes unshackled. If nothing else, it would have been an easy way for the Illusive Man to convince Shepard to lock EDI back down after the Suicide Mission.

[BansheeOwnage]

mrfinke wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

For info on why we know the infrasound is intentional, check out the 2 links in the description of the vid. They explain how/why, and even provide a link to the files you can use to listen to pitch shifted versions of the infrasonic sounds. 

Sorry it took so long to get back. 

edit: link to vid just in case

Okay, I know I'm late to the party but I just watched the video & wanted to say great job! Honestly, I never would have considered this significant before but you & TSA seem to know a lot about how infrasonic sound works & your explanation/graphs really make this a compelling argument.

Doesn't the codex say after someone is indoctrinated the reapers can use them to amplify their signals? Like how Coats "emits" infrasound?

[Fingertrip]

BansheeOwnage wrote...

mrfinke wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

For info on why we know the infrasound is intentional, check out the 2 links in the description of the vid. They explain how/why, and even provide a link to the files you can use to listen to pitch shifted versions of the infrasonic sounds. 

Sorry it took so long to get back. 

edit: link to vid just in case

Okay, I know I'm late to the party but I just watched the video & wanted to say great job! Honestly, I never would have considered this significant before but you & TSA seem to know a lot about how infrasonic sound works & your explanation/graphs really make this a compelling argument.

Doesn't the codex say after someone is indoctrinated the reapers can use them to amplify their signals? Like how Coats "emits" infrasound?

I think that is correct. That IS INDEED intriguing.

[Auralius Carolus]

Lokanaiya wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

Hmm. I hate to keep harping on this (go ahead, call my BS, it's okay) but now that I think about it, EDI being the Luna VI could be part of the guilt trip hallucination series. Only difference being that one wasn't a real mistake. Riddle me these:

1. Why would EDI tell Shepard that she was made from parts of Sovereign's wreckage but not that she was also from that VI? The former is much more "oh God no, Skynet is launching all the nukes!" than the latter. In fact given the situation, the Luna VI wasn't bad at all. It was just very confused. Why would you admit to being a Cthulhu clone but not one of a confused VI that only killed some people that it had good reason to think was in self defense.

2. How did the VI become an AI? She said it was confusing becoming self-aware under fire. How did she spontaneously become self-aware? It happened with the geth because they're designed to get smarter as they network together. Enough of them networked to have the intelligence (processing power?) to become self aware. There's no such good explanation for the Luna VI if this story is true. It just... happened. In fact, if it only barely managed the intelligence to be self-aware then it should have lost it when Shepard started destroying servers. But reducing its hardware to a fraction of its original power didn't change a thing.

3. Why did Cerberus use it? Everytime Cerberus does something incredibly stupid with something incredibly dangerous, it's because they were trying to utilize the power of something. They wanted the rachni for shock troopers because rachni are incredible troopers. They want to use Reaper technology because it's super advanced and powerful. Where's the awesome power of a VI that switched to live rounds when unsuspecting soldiers were in a training ground turned killing ground?

But where it does make sense is as the Reapers trying to put doubt into Shepard's mind as to their own redeeming qualities. One thing the Reapers and the Luna VI have in common is that they're both murderous computers that have no apparent redeeming qualities. But if the Luna VI can become one of Shepard's closest friends and most trusted allies, maybe the Reapers have potential too.

Wow, good catch. That's a pretty big plot hole if Cronos isn't a dream.

I personally suspect that EDI, (Luna VI), was more than just a rogue training program. Given the nature of Cerberus, as revealed in ME1, the group quickly turned violent toward the Alliance Navy and began sabotaging equipment and using personel as guineapigs.

It would not surprise me at all if Cerberus found the Luna VI's advanced combat and multitasking processes as desirable, and intentionally made alterations. Once "EDI" had passed her test, the framework was taken and then improved with what could be gathered from Reaper tech.

To me, the question is more along the lines of "how" this would happen in the first place. Before Luna, Cerberus was always ahead of the game; with Luna, they would have to work after the Alliance was aware of a crisis at the training center, unless EDI is a copy.

[Makrys]

Guys, I have a question for you all. What's your opinion on this...

All this talk about the hallucination possibly starting at Cronos, do you think that the reason the LegendSave file is set right before Cronos is because the EC will completely re-write the ending? I mean, I know Bioware has said 'no new endings', but they've said a lot of things. Is it possible that we will get to replay the whole end of the game, and most everything be different? If not, then whats the purpose of the LegendSave being set where it is?

Curious. Just thought I'd throw this in and see what you guys think. Thoughts?

Modifié par Makrys, 21 juin 2012 - 02:19 .

[Auralius Carolus]

Fingertrip wrote...

BansheeOwnage wrote...

mrfinke wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

For info on why we know the infrasound is intentional, check out the 2 links in the description of the vid. They explain how/why, and even provide a link to the files you can use to listen to pitch shifted versions of the infrasonic sounds. 

Sorry it took so long to get back. 

edit: link to vid just in case

Okay, I know I'm late to the party but I just watched the video & wanted to say great job! Honestly, I never would have considered this significant before but you & TSA seem to know a lot about how infrasonic sound works & your explanation/graphs really make this a compelling argument.

Doesn't the codex say after someone is indoctrinated the reapers can use them to amplify their signals? Like how Coats "emits" infrasound?

I think that is correct. That IS INDEED intriguing.

This is one argument behind why a certain squad mate of yours comments on a "hum" while in your presence: the Reaper implants developing within Shepard are resonating, turning the Commander into a walking indoctrination device.

[deltacypresss]

Rifneno, I am not a literalist. But trying to link every single inconsistency and bug to IT is just silly. This is a game. I say that to be demeaning, but so people will understand that concessions had to be made.

Most of everything that has been found in cronos station looks more like quirks in game design and not much else. I'm not going to dismiss anything hellish finds off hand or anything like that. I just don't go for "this I'd weird, therefore it mist be a dream/hallucination/Indoctrination.

I'll give you london. I'll need more convincing on cronos.

[Makrys]

 Also, this made me chuckle inside: http://social.biowar...6843/6#12670345

Some people just can't follow the rules. 

[paxxton]

Makrys wrote...

Guys, I have a question for you all. What's your opinion on this...

All this talk about the hallucination possibly starting at Cronos, do you think that the reason the LegendSave file is set right before Cronos is because the EC will completely re-write the ending? I mean, I know Bioware has said 'no new endings', but they've said a lot of things. Is it possible that we will get to replay the whole end of the game, and most everything be different? If not, then whats the purpose of the LegendSave being set where it is?

Curious. Just thought I'd throw this in and see what you guys think. Thoughts?

I propose a controversial idea. As we all know Mass Effect 3 is supposed to end Shepard/Reaper story arc. If this is really the case, the ending should be viewed as a figurative wall. There's nothing beyond and you can't go through. You can only go back from the ending. That's why the game reverts to before the attack on Cronos Station. You still have access to the whole Galaxy and can do DLC. In this interpretation there's simply nothing beyond because the story is over at that point. An empty void. Not even a void. Nothing. Still the DLC can rewrite Cronos and London. No new ending is valid in this case if BioWare doesn't consider the current ending the ending.

Modifié par paxxton, 21 juin 2012 - 02:33 .

[Auralius Carolus]

Makrys wrote...

Guys, I have a question for you all. What's your opinion on this...

All this talk about the hallucination possibly starting at Cronos, do you think that the reason the LegendSave file is set right before Cronos is because the EC will completely re-write the ending? I mean, I know Bioware has said 'no new endings', but they've said a lot of things. Is it possible that we will get to replay the whole end of the game, and most everything be different? If not, then whats the purpose of the LegendSave being set where it is?

Curious. Just thought I'd throw this in and see what you guys think. Thoughts?

First off, anyone who deals with PR or Politics knows to tackle comments abstractly: whether it be for legal or moral purposes, people like to misdirect or give vague announcements instead of a flat out lie. In the case of "no new endings" this is a subjective comment: No new endings for us, or no new endings for the devs? If the devs already consider the true endings unrevealed, but still set in stone, then there will technically be "no new endings".

As to Cronos Station, the exact purpose of the Save Point being there is to denote that the Galaxy at Lage will no longer be available thereafter. As stated by Hackett, once the fleets mobilize, their position may be given away, making an engagement with the Reapers almost inevitable after Cronos. Cronos is, effectively, the Ilos of ME3.

While it is possible that we may get to replay the whole ending of the game, I find it highly unlikely. It is more likely that we may get a quick rundown of the hints of Indoc. from Cronos, onward, but then receive something new around the time of the advance on the beam.

[Destructorlio]

Makrys wrote...

Guys, I have a question for you all. What's your opinion on this...

All this talk about the hallucination possibly starting at Cronos, do you think that the reason the LegendSave file is set right before Cronos is because the EC will completely re-write the ending? I mean, I know Bioware has said 'no new endings', but they've said a lot of things. Is it possible that we will get to replay the whole end of the game, and most everything be different? If not, then whats the purpose of the LegendSave being set where it is?

Curious. Just thought I'd throw this in and see what you guys think. Thoughts?

It's certainly possible, but no, I think the ending will play out the same as it did the first time you played through, and the EC will continue on from there.

deltacypresss wrote...

Rifneno, I am not a literalist. But trying to link every single inconsistency and bug to IT is just silly. This is a game. I say that to be demeaning, but so people will understand that concessions had to be made.

Most of everything that has been found in cronos station looks more like quirks in game design and not much else. I'm not going to dismiss anything hellish finds off hand or anything like that. I just don't go for "this I'd weird, therefore it mist be a dream/hallucination/Indoctrination.

I'll give you london. I'll need more convincing on cronos.

 

This is more-or-less my position also. I've seen no compelling evidence from Cronos that indicate it is not real- and I consider myself to be hard-core in-the-tank for IT.

[paxxton]

Someone asked why the Citadel closes itself in Control. I ask what happens to the Crucible? Is it crushed by the closing arms?

[SMichelle]

As I really don't want to read 939 pages....can someone tell me:  If the ending was a hallucination - how were the reapers destroyed (controlled/vanquished or whatever)?

If the reapers weren't destroyed what's with the old guy telling his grandkid about "The Shepard"?

I believe it was an indoctrination attempt and Shepard's wish fulfillment (with the Normandy and companions escaping to a tropical island etc.)

But if it was a dream - what happened to the reapers?

[Makrys]

SMichelle wrote...

As I really don't want to read 939 pages....can someone tell me:  If the ending was a hallucination - how were the reapers destroyed (controlled/vanquished or whatever)?

If the reapers weren't destroyed what's with the old guy telling his grandkid about "The Shepard"?

I believe it was an indoctrination attempt and Shepard's wish fulfillment (with the Normandy and companions escaping to a tropical island etc.)

But if it was a dream - what happened to the reapers?

That remains to be seen in the EC.