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[Earthborn_Shepard]

Andromidius wrote...

Da heck...

Okay, doing the 'tutorial' on ME3 right now and I'm walking around the pipes outside the HQ building. I look down and see people running in fear...

Only they are all identical. All relatively low-quality animations. All sliding to the side as they are running.

I know its a small detail, but...wut?

[paxxton]

Andromidius wrote...

Da heck...

Okay, doing the 'tutorial' on ME3 right now and I'm walking around the pipes outside the HQ building. I look down and see people running in fear...

Only they are all identical. All relatively low-quality animations. All sliding to the side as they are running.

I know its a small detail, but...wut?

Also...they are fleeting TOWARDS a Reaper.  Literally, directly AT it!

That's suspicious. I thought they were husks.

Modifié par paxxton, 21 juin 2012 - 03:43 .

[TJBartlemus]

paxxton wrote...

D.Sharrah wrote...

@ Hellish - This is what I was talking about in my last post.  For everyone else, please feel free to make corrections/additions where neccessary...



Edi’s Evolution (A subplot to Mass Effect 3)
 
1.      Relevant Themes
   1.1.   Synthetics v Organics
     1.1.1.      The revelation that EDI is the Luna VI

1.2.   Sacrifice
   1.2.1.      EDI’s decision to “risk non-functionality for the sake of the crew”

1.3.   Power of Diversity
   1.3.1.      EDI’s comments on how she differs from the Geth
   1.3.2.      EDI’s desire to be different than the Reapers

2.      Relevant Choices
   2.1.   Control
     2.1.1.      EDI’s choice to control Eva’s body rather than destroying it
   2.2.   Destroy
     2.2.1.      EDI’s comments on how the Reaper’s sole purpose to “reproduce” is incomprehensible
   2.3.   Synthesis
     2.3.1.      EDI’s “construction” – that includes a human VI that evolved into an AI + Reaper Tech
     2.3.2.      EDI’s inclusion of human thought processes and “emotions” (from her conversations with Shepard)

I wonder how did a rogue VI get from an Alliance military facility into a terrorist group's hands? It should've been isolated immediately and taken for study and analysis in another Allliance military facility.

You know what? Maybe EDI never came out of that room?? You don't know what really went on in there. Maybe it was EVA in disguise as EDI? It would make sense for TIM to put a spy on the Normandy...and TIM has all the original data from EDI until they split off from the Illusive Man.

I also found it weird in another play through with ME2 when I was talking to EDI. When you talk to her she comments that she has functions that are classified at the time. But you never find out what they are...

[MaximizedAction]

BatmanTurian wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

I'm not a troll here. I add things to the discussion.

Now, if that isn't worth quoting, I don't know what is.

Not sure what you mean by this....

Damnit, forgot to use emoticons. I didn't mean that you were a troll, but that that phrase of yours sums up what most trolls actually do here. Sorry, if I wrote it wrong.

Except for maybe challange our knowledge in IT. Which, in turn, is a good thing. But this is the only good thing about trolls.

Modifié par MaximizedAction, 21 juin 2012 - 03:46 .

[D.Sharrah]

paxxton wrote...

Reposting to preserve knowledge of my thoughts on ME3 for future generations!

These are slightly recompiled versions of my posts.

paxxton wrote yesterday...

Very analytical video:


Makes me wonder if BioWare could have sc**w Deception (as I heard), couldn't they have also done it with ME3? The video presents some valid points about the gameplay design choices made for ME3. It doesn't talk about the story or IT.

The biggest problem from the dev point of view is the gameplay of the first level. The video presents it very well comparing the choices made for ME3 with those made for ME2. Although I didn't dislike the first level (in fact, I loved it when the demo was released back in February) I understand that for some people (especially the newcomers) it could have been disorienting to be given the full-fledged gameplay mechanics from the start and be expected to play like a pro.

EDIT: Although, when I think of it right now. The Vancouver level is rather easy and the player is guided through some aspects of combat. I especially mean shooting husks clawing their way to the roof and killing those four down the ladder. Then when you meet the 2 soldiers, the combat becomes slightly more engaging but still it's quite hard to die there if you know when to hide behind the rubble. The main point here is that the level doesn't involve moving from cover to cover which does its job well in terms of familiarizing the player with the combat system. Furthermore, on Mars you get to know how to use biotics though in my opinion they should have made it slightly more thorough if you are a newcomer.

paxxton wrote yesterday...

I propose a controversial idea. As we all know Mass Effect 3 is supposed to end Shepard/Reaper story arc. If this is really the case, the ending should be viewed as a figurative wall. There's nothing beyond and you can't go through. You can only go back from the ending. That's why the game reverts to before the attack on Cronos Station. You still have access to the whole Galaxy and can do DLC. In this interpretation there's simply nothing beyond because the story is over at that point. An empty void. Not even a void. Nothing. Still the DLC can rewrite Cronos and London. No new ending is valid in this case if BioWare doesn't consider the current ending the ending.

Watched the vid...maybe he made some valid points...but once he started to use vulgarity for the sake of using vulgarity he lost my attention...

As for the second post...in a way it makes sense.  In a way it doesn't...if the bolded is true, it would make it awfully hard for them to come up with a legitimate way to continue the universe in a new game - unless its a prequel of sorts.  And while I think that fans would be happy with that, it does paint them into  a corner.  I guess what I am trying to say that the ending has to lead into "something", even if that story is untold at this point or the universe dies.  Hope that makes sense.

[HellishFiend]

D.Sharrah wrote...

@ Hellish - This is what I was talking about in my last post.  For everyone else, please feel free to make corrections/additions where neccessary...



Edi’s Evolution (A subplot to Mass Effect 3)
 
1.      Relevant Themes
   1.1.   Synthetics v Organics
     1.1.1.      The revelation that EDI is the Luna VI

1.2.   Sacrifice
   1.2.1.      EDI’s decision to “risk non-functionality for the sake of the crew”

1.3.   Power of Diversity
   1.3.1.      EDI’s comments on how she differs from the Geth
   1.3.2.      EDI’s desire to be different than the Reapers

2.      Relevant Choices
   2.1.   Control
     2.1.1.      EDI’s choice to control Eva’s body rather than destroying it
   2.2.   Destroy
     2.2.1.      EDI’s comments on how the Reaper’s sole purpose to “reproduce” is incomprehensible
   2.3.   Synthesis
     2.3.1.      EDI’s “construction” – that includes a human VI that evolved into an AI + Reaper Tech
     2.3.2.      EDI’s inclusion of human thought processes and “emotions” (from her conversations with Shepard)

Edit: And this is just one of the sub plots...

Looks great, thanks!

[D.Sharrah]

HellishFiend wrote...

D.Sharrah wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

no but seriously, my post. What do you guys think?
http://social.biowar...32/947#12674857

TJBartlemus wrote...

So BioWare said they aren't changing the endings...so what if all this time they were making a 4th choice? What would you want for that choice that hasn't been given before? (Like destroy synthesis or control) Personally
I would want a choice where Shepard looks at the beam, sees that it is atrap, and decides to leave.

Someone, a literalist of all people, came up with an awesome 4th and fifth choice. Basically, it's a paragon and renegade interrupt showing up on the screen at the same time and you pick one of them and tell the kid off and your sheer charisma or your sheer menace makes the starkid and reapers leave the galaxy. This is of course in a literal translation but could work for IT if the last or first line was " Okay, look, I know it's you in there, Harbinger" as first line for Paragon and " By the way, I knew it was you, the whole damn time, Harbinger! You're not as incomprehensible and mysterious as you think you are, amateur." as the last line for Renegade

Paragon example thread here.

Renegade example thread here.

Theseare actually very well-written and in-character for Shepard. So yeah, those could be 4th and 5th choices that people would want (who didn't want to tell that little sh!t off except people like Ieldra who believed his BS?) that could be part of breaking indoctrination. Tell off Starbinger, then choose destroy.

I saw those too...they are well written.  Not sure if they are exactly how my Sheps would react - but better than what is currently there.  I still think that what we have now isn't going to be changed that much...and that "post ending" DLC is still coming (even after the EC) that will really conclude the trilogy...

Take my opinion for what it's worth, because I dont really have the time to read through those threads, but just from the sound of the summary, I dont think it works very well. Yelling at the leader of the Reapers, who has been presiding over the ritual rape of the galaxy for millions of years, causes him to turn tail and run? Thats probably one of the most contrived ways of ending the series that I can think of... Is it better than space magic? Maybe slightly, but only slightly....

Bolded is an excellent point...if that had been the case why didn't they do that at the end of Arrival!

[HellishFiend]

I guess the main thing for me about the "real" ending is: if I can think of it, its not good enough for bioware/ME.

It reminds me of this line here:



"If you've heard of it, it's already too mainstream for me"

Same way I feel about proposed endings for ME3. I feel that if we, as the players, can come up with it, its too weak an ending for the Shepard/Reapers arc. I just have that much confidence in Bioware that they can do better than any of us can think of.

[MaximizedAction]

D.Sharrah wrote...

@ Hellish - This is what I was talking about in my last post.  For everyone else, please feel free to make corrections/additions where neccessary...



Edi’s Evolution (A subplot to Mass Effect 3)
 
1.      Relevant Themes
   1.1.   Synthetics v Organics
     1.1.1.      The revelation that EDI is the Luna VI

1.2.   Sacrifice
   1.2.1.      EDI’s decision to “risk non-functionality for the sake of the crew”

1.3.   Power of Diversity
   1.3.1.      EDI’s comments on how she differs from the Geth
   1.3.2.      EDI’s desire to be different than the Reapers

2.      Relevant Choices
   2.1.   Control
     2.1.1.      EDI’s choice to control Eva’s body rather than destroying it
   2.2.   Destroy
     2.2.1.      EDI’s comments on how the Reaper’s sole purpose to “reproduce” is incomprehensible
   2.3.   Synthesis
     2.3.1.      EDI’s “construction” – that includes a human VI that evolved into an AI + Reaper Tech
     2.3.2.      EDI’s inclusion of human thought processes and “emotions” (from her conversations with Shepard)

In Germany we are taught in schools: don't make an "a)" if you don't have a "b)"

For example 1->1.1->1.1.1... No secondary subsections?

[D.Sharrah]

paxxton wrote...

D.Sharrah wrote...

Snip...

I wonder how did a rogue VI get from an Alliance military facility into a terrorist group's hands? It should've been isolated immediately and taken to another Allliance military facility for study and analysis.

Well...at the end of the mission the VI/AI does send a burst transmission in Binary that syas "Help"...based on what we see in ME 3, I would think that is safe to assume that Cerberus intercepted that transmission.  I think I even saw yesterday that someone suggested that it was Cerberus "sabotaging" the Luna VI that made it become "aware" (just another one of their crazy experiments I guess)...

[paxxton]

TJBartlemus wrote...

paxxton wrote...

I wonder how did a rogue VI get from an Alliance military facility into a terrorist group's hands? It should've been isolated immediately and taken for study and analysis in another Allliance military facility.

You know what? Maybe EDI never came out of that room?? You don't know what really went on in there. Maybe it was EVA in disguise as EDI? It would make sense for TIM to put a spy on the Normandy...and TIM has all the original data from EDI until they split off from the Illusive Man.

I also found it weird in another play through with ME2 when I was talking to EDI. When you talk to her she comments that she has functions that are classified at the time. But you never find out what they are...

I remember that at the beginning of ME2 EDI is secretive and doesn't allow Shepard to learn some info on the Normandy or Cerberus but in the end she becomes more cooperative (possibly because you gained her trust or as a reward from BioWare for playingt the game ).

Modifié par paxxton, 21 juin 2012 - 03:52 .

[HellishFiend]

MaximizedAction wrote...

In Germany we are taught in schools: don't make an "a)" if you don't have a "b)"

For example 1->1.1->1.1.1... No secondary subsections?

In the US we are taught the same, but this is for entertainment purposes, not a whitepaper. 

[Makrys]

So... here's another one you guys can pick apart: Why does Shepard only see a set of certain people when he makes his choice? Its always Joker, Anderson, and either Liara or the VS. Its only the LIs from the first game. What about the other LI's? Is this a glitch? I don't see how it corrolates with the IT if its not.

Modifié par Makrys, 21 juin 2012 - 03:55 .

[Arashi08]

TJBartlemus wrote...

paxxton wrote...

D.Sharrah wrote...

@ Hellish - This is what I was talking about in my last post.  For everyone else, please feel free to make corrections/additions where neccessary...



Edi’s Evolution (A subplot to Mass Effect 3)
 
1.      Relevant Themes
   1.1.   Synthetics v Organics
     1.1.1.      The revelation that EDI is the Luna VI

1.2.   Sacrifice
   1.2.1.      EDI’s decision to “risk non-functionality for the sake of the crew”

1.3.   Power of Diversity
   1.3.1.      EDI’s comments on how she differs from the Geth
   1.3.2.      EDI’s desire to be different than the Reapers

2.      Relevant Choices
   2.1.   Control
     2.1.1.      EDI’s choice to control Eva’s body rather than destroying it
   2.2.   Destroy
     2.2.1.      EDI’s comments on how the Reaper’s sole purpose to “reproduce” is incomprehensible
   2.3.   Synthesis
     2.3.1.      EDI’s “construction” – that includes a human VI that evolved into an AI + Reaper Tech
     2.3.2.      EDI’s inclusion of human thought processes and “emotions” (from her conversations with Shepard)

I wonder how did a rogue VI get from an Alliance military facility into a terrorist group's hands? It should've been isolated immediately and taken for study and analysis in another Allliance military facility.

You know what? Maybe EDI never came out of that room?? You don't know what really went on in there. Maybe it was EVA in disguise as EDI? It would make sense for TIM to put a spy on the Normandy...and TIM has all the original data from EDI until they split off from the Illusive Man.

I also found it weird in another play through with ME2 when I was talking to EDI. When you talk to her she comments that she has functions that are classified at the time. But you never find out what they are...

I'm pretty sure you find out about at least some of her restricted functions when you speak to her again after Joker removes her shackles.  She mentiones she has Anti-Reaper algorithms from Sovereign's wreckage

[D.Sharrah]

MaximizedAction wrote...

D.Sharrah wrote...

@ Hellish - This is what I was talking about in my last post.  For everyone else, please feel free to make corrections/additions where neccessary...



Snip...

In Germany we are taught in schools: don't make an "a)" if you don't have a "b)"

For example 1->1.1->1.1.1... No secondary subsections?

I know that it was an incomplete outline...but that's why I included the bolded section above.

Edit:  Also, its more of a mental exercise than a formal presentation (as Hellish suggested) - and a great way to visual just how interwoven everything is...pick a subplot and go through it doing the same, its kinda of fun!

Modifié par D.Sharrah, 21 juin 2012 - 04:02 .

[HellishFiend]

I'm still of the opinion that it would overly diminish EDI's character and the role she plays with themes if they did the whole "It wasnt really her" twist. I'd be shocked if Bioware did that and was able to salvage the impact her character development had on the synth vs org story.

Modifié par HellishFiend, 21 juin 2012 - 03:56 .

[D.Sharrah]

paxxton wrote...

TJBartlemus wrote...

paxxton wrote...

I wonder how did a rogue VI get from an Alliance military facility into a terrorist group's hands? It should've been isolated immediately and taken for study and analysis in another Allliance military facility.

You know what? Maybe EDI never came out of that room?? You don't know what really went on in there. Maybe it was EVA in disguise as EDI? It would make sense for TIM to put a spy on the Normandy...and TIM has all the original data from EDI until they split off from the Illusive Man.

I also found it weird in another play through with ME2 when I was talking to EDI. When you talk to her she comments that she has functions that are classified at the time. But you never find out what they are...

I remember that at the beginning of ME2 EDI is secretive and doesn't allow Shepard to learn some info on the Normandy or Cerberus but in the end she becomes more cooperative (possibly because you gained her trust or as a reward from BioWare for playingt the game ).

EDI becomes more forthcoming only after she has been unshackled...

[D.Sharrah]

HellishFiend wrote...

I'm still of the opinion that it would overly diminish EDI's character and the role she plays with themes if they did the whole "It wasnt really her" twist. I'd be shocked if Bioware did that and was able to salvage the impact her character development had on the synth vs org story.

Great point...it would also diminish the impact that it has on the "Control" comment from TIM...

[MaximizedAction]

Makrys wrote...

So... here's another one you guys can pick apart: Why does Shepard only see a set of certain people when he makes his choice? Its always Joker, Anderson, and either Liara or the VS. Its only the LIs from the first game. What about the other LI's? Is this a glitch? I don't see how it corrolates with the IT if its not.

Although gunslinger_ruiz was very involved in this topic, I'm not sure why they only included ME1 LI as the romance flashback. Some said, that it wouldn't have been that big a deal to make a 2 sec. scene of e.g. Tali on Rannoch.

So, there must be a reason, but it's certainly not to be found in the naming of the sound files. Because it is also titled flashback_rom (or rom_flashback, don't remember).

[BatmanTurian]

TJBartlemus wrote...

paxxton wrote...

D.Sharrah wrote...

@ Hellish - This is what I was talking about in my last post.  For everyone else, please feel free to make corrections/additions where neccessary...



Edi’s Evolution (A subplot to Mass Effect 3)
 
1.      Relevant Themes
   1.1.   Synthetics v Organics
     1.1.1.      The revelation that EDI is the Luna VI

1.2.   Sacrifice
   1.2.1.      EDI’s decision to “risk non-functionality for the sake of the crew”

1.3.   Power of Diversity
   1.3.1.      EDI’s comments on how she differs from the Geth
   1.3.2.      EDI’s desire to be different than the Reapers

2.      Relevant Choices
   2.1.   Control
     2.1.1.      EDI’s choice to control Eva’s body rather than destroying it
   2.2.   Destroy
     2.2.1.      EDI’s comments on how the Reaper’s sole purpose to “reproduce” is incomprehensible
   2.3.   Synthesis
     2.3.1.      EDI’s “construction” – that includes a human VI that evolved into an AI + Reaper Tech
     2.3.2.      EDI’s inclusion of human thought processes and “emotions” (from her conversations with Shepard)

I wonder how did a rogue VI get from an Alliance military facility into a terrorist group's hands? It should've been isolated immediately and taken for study and analysis in another Allliance military facility.

You know what? Maybe EDI never came out of that room?? You don't know what really went on in there. Maybe it was EVA in disguise as EDI? It would make sense for TIM to put a spy on the Normandy...and TIM has all the original data from EDI until they split off from the Illusive Man.

I also found it weird in another play through with ME2 when I was talking to EDI. When you talk to her she comments that she has functions that are classified at the time. But you never find out what they are...

I brought this up before. I think it is EDI or some strange amalgamation, but definitely mostly EDI.

[BatmanTurian]

D.Sharrah wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

D.Sharrah wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

no but seriously, my post. What do you guys think?
http://social.biowar...32/947#12674857

TJBartlemus wrote...

So BioWare said they aren't changing the endings...so what if all this time they were making a 4th choice? What would you want for that choice that hasn't been given before? (Like destroy synthesis or control) Personally
I would want a choice where Shepard looks at the beam, sees that it is atrap, and decides to leave.

Someone, a literalist of all people, came up with an awesome 4th and fifth choice. Basically, it's a paragon and renegade interrupt showing up on the screen at the same time and you pick one of them and tell the kid off and your sheer charisma or your sheer menace makes the starkid and reapers leave the galaxy. This is of course in a literal translation but could work for IT if the last or first line was " Okay, look, I know it's you in there, Harbinger" as first line for Paragon and " By the way, I knew it was you, the whole damn time, Harbinger! You're not as incomprehensible and mysterious as you think you are, amateur." as the last line for Renegade

Paragon example thread here.

Renegade example thread here.

Theseare actually very well-written and in-character for Shepard. So yeah, those could be 4th and 5th choices that people would want (who didn't want to tell that little sh!t off except people like Ieldra who believed his BS?) that could be part of breaking indoctrination. Tell off Starbinger, then choose destroy.

I saw those too...they are well written.  Not sure if they are exactly how my Sheps would react - but better than what is currently there.  I still think that what we have now isn't going to be changed that much...and that "post ending" DLC is still coming (even after the EC) that will really conclude the trilogy...

Take my opinion for what it's worth, because I dont really have the time to read through those threads, but just from the sound of the summary, I dont think it works very well. Yelling at the leader of the Reapers, who has been presiding over the ritual rape of the galaxy for millions of years, causes him to turn tail and run? Thats probably one of the most contrived ways of ending the series that I can think of... Is it better than space magic? Maybe slightly, but only slightly....

Bolded is an excellent point...if that had been the case why didn't they do that at the end of Arrival!

Shepard did. It didn't work then, but Shepard hadn't allied the whole galaxy against them and they weren't yet losing.

[HellishFiend]

MaximizedAction wrote...

Makrys wrote...

So... here's another one you guys can pick apart: Why does Shepard only see a set of certain people when he makes his choice? Its always Joker, Anderson, and either Liara or the VS. Its only the LIs from the first game. What about the other LI's? Is this a glitch? I don't see how it corrolates with the IT if its not.

Although gunslinger_ruiz was very involved in this topic, I'm not sure why they only included ME1 LI as the romance flashback. Some said, that it wouldn't have been that big a deal to make a 2 sec. scene of e.g. Tali on Rannoch.

So, there must be a reason, but it's certainly not to be found in the naming of the sound files. Because it is also titled flashback_rom (or rom_flashback, don't remember).

Well, TSA was on to something we never really looked into. He discovered that same weird tone/note from the flashback when you pick up the injured VS and take them onto the Normandy. So its possible those flashbacks are linked in some way to some particular pattern of events or emotions. If we could find the matching tones/notes for anderson and joker, we could probably figure it out. 

[MaximizedAction]

HellishFiend wrote...

I'm still of the opinion that it would overly diminish EDI's character and the role she plays with themes if they did the whole "It wasnt really her" twist. I'd be shocked if Bioware did that and was able to salvage the impact her character development had on the synth vs org story.

Maybe she might still turn on you, but depending on how often you talked to her and encouranged her to embrace her 'organic' side, that will change the outcome.

[D.Sharrah]

MaximizedAction wrote...

Makrys wrote...

So... here's another one you guys can pick apart: Why does Shepard only see a set of certain people when he makes his choice? Its always Joker, Anderson, and either Liara or the VS. Its only the LIs from the first game. What about the other LI's? Is this a glitch? I don't see how it corrolates with the IT if its not.

Although gunslinger_ruiz was very involved in this topic, I'm not sure why they only included ME1 LI as the romance flashback. Some said, that it wouldn't have been that big a deal to make a 2 sec. scene of e.g. Tali on Rannoch.

So, there must be a reason, but it's certainly not to be found in the naming of the sound files. Because it is also titled flashback_rom (or rom_flashback, don't remember).

Since Liara is my LI (pretty much everytime ) - I really don't see the problem here...and I am not sure if there is any relevance to IT.  If there is, I can't give you the answer.  It is beyond me...

[D.Sharrah]

MaximizedAction wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

I'm still of the opinion that it would overly diminish EDI's character and the role she plays with themes if they did the whole "It wasnt really her" twist. I'd be shocked if Bioware did that and was able to salvage the impact her character development had on the synth vs org story.

Maybe she might still turn on you, but depending on how often you talked to her and encouranged her to embrace her 'organic' side, that will change the outcome.

...it would also diminish the impact that it has on the "Control" comment from TIM...