55528 réponses à ce sujet

[FellishBeast]

D.Sharrah wrote...

 No one wants to look at the youtube clips that I posted about the Prothean VI...

Youtube sucks on Safari for me, and I'm too lazy to open Chrome and paste the link.

Not to mention I'm trying to play Diablo ****in' 3 and I keep getting distracted. 

[clennon8]

FellishBeast wrote...

clennon8 wrote...

clennon8 wrote...

FellishBeast wrote...

Or the Crucible is testing him to make sure he isn't corrupted.

Interesting.  I hadn't really thought about this angle, although I suppose it should be obvious.  So, rather than being
a) an agent of the Reapers, trying to complete Shepard's indoctrination, or
exactly what he claims to be, the Starchild is 
c) a manifestation of the Crucible, testing Shepard to make sure he hasn't been comprimised?

Do I have that right? 

I don't want this to get lost in the shuffle.  Maybe I'm just really slow (quite possible) but this is the first time I've really considered possibility © from above. At first blush, I really like the idea.  It does fit pretty well with the notion that Shepard is the true "catalyst" as well.  I'm not sure I'm ready to make either leap just yet, but it's certainly getting me thinking.

I just considered today, so you're not behind at all! 

All we can really do now is take ideas and just run with them until they hit a roadblock. That's how we're developing our theories, hehe. And how we pass the time until EC, lol.

Hmmm.  Once again, the fact that failSheps only get Control or Destroy is throwing a monkey wrench into the works.

[Memnon]

estebanus wrote...

Oh god, Seival made a new thread: The ultimate ending support thread.
By this point, it's gotta be obvious he's a troll!

Thank god that thread was locked before it could grow roots like his normandy crash scene support thread!

I still maintain that he's roleplaying a person who is indoctrinated ... he can't be that clueless (or obsequious) 

[Vox Draco]

D.Sharrah wrote...

You are more than welcome...but to be fair, Vox Draco was the first to point this out.

I don't win anything for this, do I? Well, the very least I can contribute to this thread is to show I understood the basic concept of IT, and let other souls participate!

[paxxton]

D.Sharrah wrote...

Edit: Could this be the evidence that we have been looking for, to show that TIM hacked the VI to give us the wrong information?

Hmm...

Modifié par paxxton, 21 juin 2012 - 10:39 .

[D.Sharrah]

FellishBeast wrote...

D.Sharrah wrote...

 No one wants to look at the youtube clips that I posted about the Prothean VI...

Youtube sucks on Safari for me, and I'm too lazy to open Chrome and paste the link.

Not to mention I'm trying to play Diablo ****in' 3 and I keep getting distracted. 

Excuses, excuses...the basic premise:

Prothy the VI:  You need me (on thessia)

Prothy the VI: Citadel is the catalyst (On Cronos)

Shep walks off....

But what happened to needing the VI?

[Andromidius]

byne wrote...

I like Rhonin. Haters gonna hate.

As for Garrosh, I cant wait for Mists of Pandaria. He's apparently going to be the final boss, so whether you're Alliance or Horde, you get the satisfaction of killing him.

After Garrosh dies, I hope either Thrall comes back as Warchief, of Vol'jin becomes the leader of the Horde.

Fair enough.  To be honest his in-game character is fine, its the books I find obnoxious beyond belief.

And I just wish Garrosh had a coherent character design.  I can respect a jerk so long as he's getting the job done, but he's a jerk who screws up constantly and blames others for it.  Not to mention his serious daddy issues, overblown ego and lack of any tactical expertise or personal prowess beyond 'hack wildly'.

Thrall went down in my books for promoting such a meathead.  Vol'jin should have the job, hands down.

*cough*

So about dat Indoctrination Theory.  Playing through ME3 right now and I'm finding all sorts of weirdness which can't be put down to 'laziness'.  I honestly don't know what to make of it, especially so early on in the game.

[D.Sharrah]

Vox Draco wrote...

D.Sharrah wrote...

You are more than welcome...but to be fair, Vox Draco was the first to point this out.

I don't win anything for this, do I? Well, the very least I can contribute to this thread is to show I understood the basic concept of IT, and let other souls participate!

I do believe that your contributions have gone far beyond answering a mere question...just don't ask me what they are.

[MegumiAzusa]

FellishBeast wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

FellishBeast wrote...

Megumi, you need to chill. I hope you realize that Hellish is one of the most pleasant and easy-going people on this thread, and you make him lose it. You need to realize what that means about you.

I don't think you're a troll, but if you are, congrats. If not, maybe think of speaking in a different so as to not come off so abrasively. It's getting old.

I can't see any reason to change my behavior which is the same since about 2k pages and no one said anything about it until I attacked statements of HellishFiend and Rifneno because they were flawed.

I admit I could be biased, since Hellish has such an awesome name. I just think you said some very harsh things. I think this thread should be friendly and welcoming, and should not crap on people for sharing their thoughts. Debate is inveitable, but it should be done in a civil manner.

Perhaps we disagree on the definition of "civil." 

It could very well be that I'm harsher now towards HellishFiend, I admit that as I don't really like him anymore which seems to be mutual. This doesn't change much of the content of my posts though which are aimed at reducing flaws.

[paxxton]

If the VI wanted to help with the Crucible by interfacing with it and then just reveals that the Citadel is the Catalyst, maybe it just didn't want anyone to know what the Catalyst is until security protocols were overridden. Interfacing would have prevented that disclosure until the Crucible was ready. So that the chance of sabotage would have been miniimzed.

Modifié par paxxton, 21 juin 2012 - 10:45 .

[Vox Draco]

D.Sharrah wrote...

I do believe that your contributions have gone far beyond answering a mere question...just don't ask me what they are.

I contribute mostly with professional lurking  *hides in shadows again...watching...always watching...*

[D.Sharrah]

paxxton wrote...

D.Sharrah wrote...

Edit: Could this be the evidence that we have been looking for, to show that TIM hacked the VI to give us the wrong information?

Hmm...

Possibly...but why does that leave that bad taste in my mouth...like whenever I see a literalist saying that Bioware is "lazy" or that it is "bad writing".  Something about it makes me believe that there is somethine more to it than a mere "inconsistency" in the story. 

[TSA_383]

[quote]D.Sharrah wrote...

Before this gets lost...chek out the videos and the comments  bolded below in the quote. 

[quote]D.Sharrah wrote...

[quote]FellishBeast wrote...

[quote]TJBartlemus wrote...

[quote]Paralenko wrote...

Sorry if this theory has been posted before. I'm a bit late to the debate.

What if Commander Shepard is "the catalyst." That could explain why they used Shepard's voices for the child. It could also explain how Shepard could set off the Crucible without leaving London.

Just throwing it out there.[/quote]

That would mean the entire situation was still in his mind. Also if the theme has been destroy then why would he make 2 new choices, and make him choose and...... ahhhh too much!!!

Sorry, it doesn't have much to reinforce this. Unless Shepard has multiple-personality disorder...

[/quote]

Or the Crucible is testing him to make sure he isn't corrupted.[/quote]

I was reading your post and I remebered something...take a look at this..

http://www.youtube.c...K0WYH6xE#t=162s

The VI says that it needs to interface with the systems to help with the Catalyst...but then take a look at this...

http://www.youtube.c...ldCYki5c#t=462s

and

http://www.youtube.c...ldCYki5c#t=853s

Is it just me or are you walking out w/o the VI, after it initially told you that you would need it to interface with the systems.
[/quote]

Edit:  Could this be the evidence tha we have been looking for, to show that TIM hacked the VI to give us the wrong information?
[/quote]

Seems likely, that was the conclusion I jumped to at the time, before thinking "well that seems like a serious plot hole - why does nobody question it?"

[quote]ImCommanderShepard wrote...

If Shepard was indoctrinated,
why did the Prothean VI on Thessia only shut down when Kai Leng showed
up? Indoctrination doesn't just happen overnight. [/quote]
Because a computer program can't sense what you're thinking from a distance
Presumably, it can detect reaper-tech.

[quote]FellishBeast wrote...

[quote]MegumiAzusa wrote...

[quote]FellishBeast wrote...

Megumi,
you need to chill. I hope you realize that Hellish is one of the most
pleasant and easy-going people on this thread, and you make him lose it.
You need to realize what that means about you.

I don't
think you're a troll, but if you are, congrats. If not, maybe think of
speaking in a different so as to not come off so abrasively. It's
getting old.

[/quote]
I can't see any reason to change my
behavior which is the same since about 2k pages and no one said anything
about it until I attacked statements of HellishFiend and Rifneno
because they were flawed.[/quote]

I admit I could be biased,
since Hellish has such an awesome name. I just think you said some very
harsh things. I think this thread should be friendly and welcoming, and
should not crap on people for sharing their thoughts. Debate is
inveitable, but it should be done in a civil manner.

Perhaps we disagree on the definition of "civil." [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/wink.png[/smilie]
[/quote]
Ladies, please.

Maybe Megumi's being a little harsh, but then again there are a lot of people throwing around information that's patently false (IT related or not) and if stuff ends up in our theories that shouldn't be as a result it just weakens what we already have.

[quote]MegumiAzusa wrote...

[quote]paxxton wrote...

[quote]MegumiAzusa wrote...

[quote]paxxton wrote...

[quote]HellishFiend wrote...

[quote]paxxton wrote...

I think it should be moving slower with lower frequency.[/quote]

I
think you're confusing the sound we have with a constant sine wave. Two
different things. The infrasound from the Normandy is a mix of a whole
bunch of different infrasound frequencies, so it wouldnt just be moving
at a constant low rate. 
[/quote]
So the speaker tries to move
simultaneously to many different infrasounds and is "confused" and
that's why it shakes so rapidly?[/quote]
Not sure if joking here oO
But
what happens is all different waves are added up to a new wave. This
results in a wave with a non steady frequency which is again split up by
the ear. This is also why you can actively cancel noise, just add the
negative.[/quote]
OMG you're right. I so forgot about that addition. [/quote]
Sorry but I still can't believe you both really thought the speakers get confused.[/quote]
I'm so glad you pointed this out to them before the end of the thread - I was actually doing the legendary double-facepalm.

[quote]HellishFiend wrote...

[quote]LazyTechGuy wrote...

Hellish, I'm betting you already saw this comment from a reddit post about you're video but just in case:

"I found this comment on an article on Kotaku about the secret of the music of ME3:

Very
well spotted! You're correct... there's actually a few other places we
used elements of Vigil in both ME2 and ME3. In fact, we laced the entire
game with a lot of audio Easter eggs... some fun, some tied to the
narrative and some that go pretty far down the psychology rabbit hole

Rob Blake
Audio Lead - Mass Effect franchise
Bioware - EA"[/quote]

Yep,
I've seen that. That same guy has probably already heard about our
infrasound discovery by word of mouth, but I doubt he'll come forward
and say anything about it until after EC. [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/tongue.png[/smilie]

edit: Wait, there's a reddit post about my video? [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/andy.png[/smilie]

[/quote]
Basically everything remotely important we say ends up on the "indoctrinated" reddit somehow

They bring up some awesome stuff though, like this:

http://youtu.be/ItxB36uRrYo?t=8m8s
SPECULATIONS!

[byne]

Andromidius wrote...

And I just wish Garrosh had a coherent character design.  I can respect a jerk so long as he's getting the job done, but he's a jerk who screws up constantly and blames others for it.  Not to mention his serious daddy issues, overblown ego and lack of any tactical expertise or personal prowess beyond 'hack wildly'.

Garrosh has his moments, to be honest. My fondest memory of Garrosh is in the Stonetalon Mountains post-Cataclysm questline.

At the end, after basically nuking a school for young night elf druids, Garrosh shows up and punishes your commander for the bombing by throwing him off a cliff for murdering civilians.

If you havent done it, the Horde quest chain in Stonetalon is pretty awesome. Has you rising up the ranks in the army, till you're a general near the end.

You get demoted due to the whole child slaughtering thing, of course, but its still a fun questline.

Probably my third favorite behind the one where you infiltrate the Scourge disguised as a ghoul in Zul'drak and the Caravan chain in Eastern Plaguelands.

I used to love the Wrathgate questline too, but they removed the Battle for the Undercity part, so it is far less enjoyable now.

[paxxton]

D.Sharrah wrote...

paxxton wrote...

D.Sharrah wrote...

Edit: Could this be the evidence that we have been looking for, to show that TIM hacked the VI to give us the wrong information?

Hmm...

Possibly...but why does that leave that bad taste in my mouth...like whenever I see a literalist saying that Bioware is "lazy" or that it is "bad writing".  Something about it makes me believe that there is somethine more to it than a mere "inconsistency" in the story. 

Maybe you added something to the peanut butter cookies.

[D.Sharrah]

paxxton wrote...

If the VI wanted to help with the Crucible by interfacing with it and then just reveals that the Citadel is the Catalyst, maybe it just didn't want anyone to know what the Catalyst is until security protocols were overridden. Interfacing would have prevented that disclosure until the Crucible was ready. So that the chance of sabotage would have been miniimzed.

But if TIM has disabled the security protocols, doesn't it open the door to the possibility that he has corrupted the information...especially if he wants to delay Shep's ability to get the crucuble working to destroy the Reaper's (since he so obviously wants to control them)?

[ImCommanderShepard]

Vox Draco wrote...

D.Sharrah wrote...

You are more than welcome...but to be fair, Vox Draco was the first to point this out.

I don't win anything for this, do I? Well, the very least I can contribute to this thread is to show I understood the basic concept of IT, and let other souls participate!

@Vox Draco - I must have missed your post as I was scrolling down. Sorry about that. Indoctrination Theory makes sense. I support it!

[D.Sharrah]

paxxton wrote...

D.Sharrah wrote...

paxxton wrote...

D.Sharrah wrote...

Edit: Could this be the evidence that we have been looking for, to show that TIM hacked the VI to give us the wrong information?

Hmm...

Possibly...but why does that leave that bad taste in my mouth...like whenever I see a literalist saying that Bioware is "lazy" or that it is "bad writing".  Something about it makes me believe that there is somethine more to it than a mere "inconsistency" in the story. 

Maybe you added something to the peanut butter cookies.

I did...vanilla whey protein powder...actually replace would be more accurate, since I replaced most of the flour in the recipe for the protein powder...and they are quite tasty, and thanks to the extra protein, a little better for me!

[paxxton]

D.Sharrah wrote...

paxxton wrote...

If the VI wanted to help with the Crucible by interfacing with it and then just reveals that the Citadel is the Catalyst, maybe it just didn't want anyone to know what the Catalyst is until security protocols were overridden. Interfacing would have prevented that disclosure until the Crucible was ready. So that the chance of sabotage would have been miniimzed.

But if TIM has disabled the security protocols, doesn't it open the door to the possibility that he has corrupted the information...especially if he wants to delay Shep's ability to get the crucuble working to destroy the Reaper's (since he so obviously wants to control them)?

That's a possibility. Maybe the lady that announces what the Cerberus personnel has to do after the attack has some more info to share. Worth checking.

Modifié par paxxton, 21 juin 2012 - 10:59 .

[Andromidius]

byne wrote...
Garrosh has his moments, to be honest. My fondest memory of Garrosh is in the Stonetalon Mountains post-Cataclysm questline.

Problem being, he put that commander in charge there and told him to do what was necessary.

I honestly couldn't see him being angry at all if Tauren weren't involved.  Based on what he says to Saurfang in Northrend, he doesn't see any problem with murdering the children of his enemies 'before they grow up and become more enemies'.

Basically, he's incompetant and inconsistant.  He's all about his own authority, while completely ignoring the authority of others.  He's all about tradition, but seems to lack proper knowledge on how to go about it properly (which leads to Cairn's death - a thing he didn't seem bothered by until he realised he didn't actually win legitimately).

That's why I hate him, he's a hypocrit of the worst kind.  And let's not even get started about how he treats non-Orcs, even ones who are blood-brothers.  He's the single worst thing to happen to the Horde since they first drain Fel Blood.

Modifié par Andromidius, 21 juin 2012 - 10:57 .

[byne]

Andromidius wrote...


That's why I hate him, he's a hypocrit of the worst kind.  And let's not even get started about how he treats non-Orcs, even ones who are blood-brothers.  He's the single worst thing to happen to the Horde since they first drain Fel Blood.

Even worse than blood elves and goblins?!

Anyhow, I was just watching the video of the death of the Lich King again.

When Terenas showed up and said "Control must always be maintained. There must always be a Lich King." he totally blew my mind. A ghost of someone we're supposed to trust coming and telling us the cycle must always be maintained? Where have I seen that before?

I knew there was a reason I never trusted Bolvar becoming the new Lich King. I never bought that controlling the Scourge was necessary. The last time control was lost, we got the Forsaken, not destruction of the world or anything.

Also, there's this video, which I think ties ME and WoW together enough to warrant me talking about WoW.

[Andromidius]

Oh, and back on topic with IT. Kinda.

Bailey was 'encouraged' by Udina to take the promotion to Commander of C-Sec. That lends towards the idea he may have been bought off by them, or a sympathiser.

byne wrote...

Andromidius wrote...


That's
why I hate him, he's a hypocrit of the worst kind.  And let's not even
get started about how he treats non-Orcs, even ones who are
blood-brothers.  He's the single worst thing to happen to the Horde
since they first drain Fel Blood.

Even worse than blood elves and goblins?!

Anyhow, I was just watching the video of the death of the Lich King again.

When
Terenas showed up and said "Control must always be maintained. There
must always be a Lich King." he totally blew my mind. A ghost of someone
we're supposed to trust coming and telling us the cycle must always be
maintained? Where have I seen that before?

I knew there was a
reason I never trusted Bolvar becoming the new Lich King. I never bought
that controlling the Scourge was necessary. The last time control was
lost, we got the Forsaken, not destruction of the world or anything.

Also, there's this video, which I think ties ME and WoW together enough to warrant me talking about WoW.

Goblins aren't so bad.  Their leader is a scumbag though, and Thrall had no reason to go putting him back in charge of them after TWO cases of enslaving his own race and repeated attempts on his life.

Blood Elves, well they were cooler in Warcraft 3.  In WoW they are so 'background' that I barely even notice them anymore.  Its not like they are important storywise anymore, especially with the Forsaken hogging all the non-Orc lore right now.

And 'There Must Always Be A Lich King' smacked of pure bull, I have no idea why Blizzard ran with that.  Considering there was no Lich King before Ner'zul, and Arthas was blantantly the subversive party of the union that happened, there's no basis for such a statement.  The argument that the undead would go wild doesn't even help - they'd be without any co-ordination and would quickly be defeated.  And its not like having Bolvar take the Crown of Domination for his own has stopped undead attacks.  So it was a pointless plot development.

More interesting is what happened to Frostmourne, and to Ner'zul's spirit?

Modifié par Andromidius, 21 juin 2012 - 11:06 .

[MaximizedAction]

TSA_383 wrote...

Basically everything remotely important we say ends up on the "indoctrinated" reddit somehow

They bring up some awesome stuff though, like this:

http://youtu.be/ItxB36uRrYo?t=8m8s
SPECULATIONS!

Hmmm...I wonder why I've never looked at TIM's tattle about the Citadel from another direction:
What if he did run off, but did manage to control them? Though, of course, it's still astronomically unlikely, since every cycle must've had a Cerberus who tried and failed. But then, many cycle must've had a Shepard, too, who we are told to have a chance.

Something being astronomically unlikely, does not mean it's entirely impossible. To that extend, TIM still having control over something, would help explain the weirdness that surrounds the Cronos Station mission. London I can write off to the Reapers, but Cronos? Not really.

Interesting idea, that Cerberus might still be very fit and alive. At least TIM seemed that way in his last (sane) conversation before the Leng fight.

As a closing thought for fun: what if the last two missions have been a test, but not from the Catalyst, but from Cerberus? What if Shepard's defeat of Kai Leng was TIM looking into the option of replacing his Number Once with Shepard? After all, he says in TSA's link, that he doesn't see Shepard as a total loss yet.

[FellishBeast]

clennon8 wrote...

FellishBeast wrote...

clennon8 wrote...

clennon8 wrote...

FellishBeast wrote...

Or the Crucible is testing him to make sure he isn't corrupted.

Interesting.  I hadn't really thought about this angle, although I suppose it should be obvious.  So, rather than being
a) an agent of the Reapers, trying to complete Shepard's indoctrination, or
exactly what he claims to be, the Starchild is 
c) a manifestation of the Crucible, testing Shepard to make sure he hasn't been comprimised?

Do I have that right? 

I don't want this to get lost in the shuffle.  Maybe I'm just really slow (quite possible) but this is the first time I've really considered possibility © from above. At first blush, I really like the idea.  It does fit pretty well with the notion that Shepard is the true "catalyst" as well.  I'm not sure I'm ready to make either leap just yet, but it's certainly getting me thinking.

I just considered today, so you're not behind at all! 

All we can really do now is take ideas and just run with them until they hit a roadblock. That's how we're developing our theories, hehe. And how we pass the time until EC, lol.

Hmmm.  Once again, the fact that failSheps only get Control or Destroy is throwing a monkey wrench into the works.

Ah, very good point. The EMS affecting the ending really doesn't make any sense any way you slice it...

[byne]

Andromidius wrote...

And 'There Must Always Be A Lich King' smacked of pure bull, I have no idea why Blizzard ran with that.  Considering there was no Lich King before Ner'zul, and Arthas was blantantly the subversive party of the union that happened, there's no basis for such a statement.  The argument that the undead would go wild doesn't even help - they'd be without any co-ordination and would quickly be defeated.  And its not like having Bolvar take the Crown of Domination for his own has stopped undead attacks.  So it was a pointless plot development.

More interesting is what happened to Frostmourne, and to Ner'zul's spirit?

As far as I'm concerned, Bolvar's indoctrinated been corrupted by the Lich King. I figure it was just Ner'zhul's spirit in the form of Terenas tricking Tirion into letting him continue doing his Lich King thing.

The whole 'Arthas returning to himself and having a heartfelt chat with his father' thing right before he died seemed a bit odd, considering there was an entire questline in Icecrown devoted entirely to pointing out theres literally nothing left of Arthas inside the Lich King anymore.