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Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark II!


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#24226
FellishBeast

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BansheeOwnage wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

Rosewind wrote...

Eh, way to many people with big ego's in here. *leaves again*


I don't think that word means what you think it means...

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

I have a little theory about that: if you directly huskify a species (without modification like Brutes or without unique DNA like Banshees) it reduces their behavior to one less evolved. Humans devolve into very animalistic troops, clawing and swarming the enemy like a pack of dogs (or hey, apes why not), while Turians who are very militaristic (and considered "primitive" already by Harbinger) become command units capable of using weapons and even some form of verbal commincation. Cannibals behave smarter than a Human Husk, but usually only after munching on some other husks....which just might explain why some Batarians are hard to like.


Honestly they all seem pretty stupid. Marauders and ravagers the least so but the others don't even seem to attempt to minimize their damage. Banshees never try to defend themselves in any way. It's 100% offensive. Brutes will hold the heavily armored claw in front of them sometimes when walking but otherwise they're dumber than a bag of hammers. Brutes are like a Robocop villain: completely screwed by any level geometry. Cannibals... a cannibal in a firefight will stop attacking and go start chowing down on allies with no protection whatsoever even though a potted plant could identify this scenario as "suicidal."


Actually banshees (like phantoms) will actively block most powers, like Kai Leng does.


Brutes put their claw up to block damage, as well.

Reaper forces are like the Scourge. Each soldier they gain is already a soldier of yours loss. It's just about overwhelming and recycling.

#24227
FellishBeast

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BansheeOwnage wrote...

FellishBeast wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...

New Theory...
The Illusive Man really wanted synthesis...

________________________________________

Shepard:
You're turning your people into monsters.
The Illusive Man: Hardly. They're being improved.

The Illusive Man: Use their power. Harness their very essense to bring humanity to the apex of evolution.

The Illusive Man: This is the way humanity must evolve.

The Illusive Man: Everything I've done has uplifted humanity.

The Illusive Man:
There's a better way forward. Humanity can be so much more.

The Illusive Man: The physical benefits are too useful to ignore.

The Illusive Man:
Roll it out. I want all troopers fitted with implants before the reapers arrive.

________________________________________


But he didn't have enough war assets! :o
You see, Saren bred a Krogan army, he had the Rachni, and Asari commandos, and indoctrinated salarians and he recruited the Geth. So Saren got more points and he got to unlock it...


This gets me thinking about the REAL cycle.

Spectre fights Reapers.
Spectre becomes indoctrinated while fighting Reapers.
New Spectre kills indoctrinated Spectre and discovers the Reapers.
Spectre fights Reapers.


Does that mean a spectre will kill Shepard?


Well, we were actually speculating about that the other day. Maybe in one of the endings, someone will confront Shepard like Shepard confronted Saren. It'd be so poetic I'd get goosebumbs :)

#24228
BansheeOwnage

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FellishBeast wrote...

BansheeOwnage wrote...

FellishBeast wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...

New Theory...
The Illusive Man really wanted synthesis...

________________________________________

Shepard:
You're turning your people into monsters.
The Illusive Man: Hardly. They're being improved.

The Illusive Man: Use their power. Harness their very essense to bring humanity to the apex of evolution.

The Illusive Man: This is the way humanity must evolve.

The Illusive Man: Everything I've done has uplifted humanity.

The Illusive Man:
There's a better way forward. Humanity can be so much more.

The Illusive Man: The physical benefits are too useful to ignore.

The Illusive Man:
Roll it out. I want all troopers fitted with implants before the reapers arrive.

________________________________________


But he didn't have enough war assets! :o
You see, Saren bred a Krogan army, he had the Rachni, and Asari commandos, and indoctrinated salarians and he recruited the Geth. So Saren got more points and he got to unlock it...


This gets me thinking about the REAL cycle.

Spectre fights Reapers.
Spectre becomes indoctrinated while fighting Reapers.
New Spectre kills indoctrinated Spectre and discovers the Reapers.
Spectre fights Reapers.


Does that mean a spectre will kill Shepard?


Well, we were actually speculating about that the other day. Maybe in one of the endings, someone will confront Shepard like Shepard confronted Saren. It'd be so poetic I'd get goosebumbs :)


That would be really awesome actually, especially if that person was Shepard's LI.

Edit: It would be so weird to have a [Commit suicide] dialogue option...

Modifié par BansheeOwnage, 22 juin 2012 - 07:12 .


#24229
Raistlin Majare 1992

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FellishBeast wrote...

BansheeOwnage wrote...

Does that mean a spectre will kill Shepard?


Well, we were actually speculating about that the other day. Maybe in one of the endings, someone will confront Shepard like Shepard confronted Saren. It'd be so poetic I'd get goosebumbs :)


Wait a second...the Virmire Survivor is made a Spectre...

#24230
Raistlin Majare 1992

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BansheeOwnage wrote...

That would be really awesome actually, especially if that person was Shepard's LI.

Edit: It would be so weird to have a [Commit suicide] dialogue option...


Agree with Shepard Li beeing the one to pull the trigger.

Though a paragon/renegade interupt to make Shepard do it himself Saren style would be kinda neat as well.

#24231
BansheeOwnage

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Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

FellishBeast wrote...

BansheeOwnage wrote...

Does that mean a spectre will kill Shepard?


Well, we were actually speculating about that the other day. Maybe in one of the endings, someone will confront Shepard like Shepard confronted Saren. It'd be so poetic I'd get goosebumbs :)


Wait a second...the Virmire Survivor is made a Spectre...



Yes I was thinking that but you can kill them in ME3.

#24232
FellishBeast

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BansheeOwnage wrote...

That would be really awesome actually, especially if that person was Shepard's LI.

Edit: It would be so weird to have a [Commit suicude] dialogue option...


I think that would fit so perfectly, though. I mean if you consider IT with the current ending and if it continues with EC, the number of possible endings will seriously be ridiculous. So many options if you become indoctrinated (fight LI or squad mate, honorable suicide, become a reaper) or if you don't (kill harbinger, etc...). It would blow my mind. I can't help but think this is what BioWare is planning. It would match up perfectly with everything they said pre-release, but I'm trying not to get my hopes up. :x

Edit: Imagine this: a boss fight where you are the boss. You fight your remaining squad members with your super Reaper powers. Tell me that ain't too video gamey! :devil:

Modifié par FellishBeast, 22 juin 2012 - 07:16 .


#24233
BansheeOwnage

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FellishBeast wrote...

BansheeOwnage wrote...

That would be really awesome actually, especially if that person was Shepard's LI.

Edit: It would be so weird to have a [Commit suicude] dialogue option...


I think that would fit so perfectly, though. I mean if you consider IT with the current ending and if it continues with EC, the number of possible endings will seriously be ridiculous. So many options if you become indoctrinated (fight LI or squad mate, honorable suicide, become a reaper) or if you don't (kill harbinger, etc...). It would blow my mind. I can't help but think this is what BioWare is planning. It would match up perfectly with everything they said pre-release, but I'm trying not to get my hopes up. :x


really hope so too. Posted Image But also, not keeping my hopes up. Also boss-fighting yourself would be halarious.
Garrus: "Concussive shot ready!"

Modifié par BansheeOwnage, 22 juin 2012 - 07:17 .


#24234
Raistlin Majare 1992

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FellishBeast wrote...

BansheeOwnage wrote...

That would be really awesome actually, especially if that person was Shepard's LI.

Edit: It would be so weird to have a [Commit suicude] dialogue option...


I think that would fit so perfectly, though. I mean if you consider IT with the current ending and if it continues with EC, the number of possible endings will seriously be ridiculous. So many options if you become indoctrinated (fight LI or squad mate, honorable suicide, become a reaper) or if you don't (kill harbinger, etc...). It would blow my mind. I can't help but think this is what BioWare is planning. It would match up perfectly with everything they said pre-release, but I'm trying not to get my hopes up. :x


And failing miserably at avodiing it if you are like me in regards to IT. I keep telling myself to not get my hopes up...but my body wont listen to reason :o

#24235
BansheeOwnage

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Failing the LI killing Shepard, I think I would have Javik kill me for many reasons.

#24236
Starbuck8

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So... was just watching the ME3 ending confrontation with Anderson and TIM on YouTube with my big headphones, and there are some really deep bass sounds that play during the dialogue. It almost seems like every time TIM says something powerful or assertive, you hear that deep sound. Has anyone noticed this before? Would be interesting if someone could record the ending or other parts of the game along side one of those audio analysis graphs real-time, so we can see the instances when infrasound or low bass plays.

#24237
FellishBeast

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I just had a thought.

If BioWare wanted to give us the most options for how we want to end our story, they would have to use indoctrination. Shepard can be renegade or paragon, obviously, but never would either Shepard willingly join the Reapers. Indoctrination would give the player the option to go bad without compromising Shepard's character.

That's not as well put as it happened in my head, but it was comforting.

#24238
BansheeOwnage

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Starbuck8 wrote...

So... was just watching the ME3 ending confrontation with Anderson and TIM on YouTube with my big headphones, and there are some really deep bass sounds that play during the dialogue. It almost seems like every time TIM says something powerful or assertive, you hear that deep sound. Has anyone noticed this before? Would be interesting if someone could record the ending or other parts of the game along side one of those audio analysis graphs real-time, so we can see the instances when infrasound or low bass plays.


Ask HellishFiend to do it. Also I'ma go to bed now. Good night other people.

#24239
FellishBeast

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Starbuck8 wrote...

So... was just watching the ME3 ending confrontation with Anderson and TIM on YouTube with my big headphones, and there are some really deep bass sounds that play during the dialogue. It almost seems like every time TIM says something powerful or assertive, you hear that deep sound. Has anyone noticed this before? Would be interesting if someone could record the ending or other parts of the game along side one of those audio analysis graphs real-time, so we can see the instances when infrasound or low bass plays.


That'd have to be Hellish or someone with that expertise.

Yes, I did notice it, though. I'm still not sure what to attribute the weirdness of that scene to. I want to say the oily shadows, weird rapid banging noises and waviness is all indoctrination, but I thought it was supposed to be TIM controlling Shepard. I forget what our take on whether or not TIM could actually acquire mind control powers is. :?

#24240
BansheeOwnage

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FellishBeast wrote...

I just had a thought.

If BioWare wanted to give us the most options for how we want to end our story, they would have to use indoctrination. Shepard can be renegade or paragon, obviously, but never would either Shepard willingly join the Reapers. Indoctrination would give the player the option to go bad without compromising Shepard's character.

That's not as well put as it happened in my head, but it was comforting.


That happens to me all the time. Wish I could speak as well as Shepard.

#24241
FellishBeast

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BansheeOwnage wrote...

Starbuck8 wrote...

So... was just watching the ME3 ending confrontation with Anderson and TIM on YouTube with my big headphones, and there are some really deep bass sounds that play during the dialogue. It almost seems like every time TIM says something powerful or assertive, you hear that deep sound. Has anyone noticed this before? Would be interesting if someone could record the ending or other parts of the game along side one of those audio analysis graphs real-time, so we can see the instances when infrasound or low bass plays.


Ask HellishFiend to do it. Also I'ma go to bed now. Good night other people.


Goodnight! Have awesome IT dreams! :P

#24242
FellishBeast

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BansheeOwnage wrote...

FellishBeast wrote...

I just had a thought.

If BioWare wanted to give us the most options for how we want to end our story, they would have to use indoctrination. Shepard can be renegade or paragon, obviously, but never would either Shepard willingly join the Reapers. Indoctrination would give the player the option to go bad without compromising Shepard's character.

That's not as well put as it happened in my head, but it was comforting.


That happens to me all the time. Wish I could speak as well as Shepard.


I wish everything I said was pre-written by a talnted writing team as well! :wizard:

#24243
Raistlin Majare 1992

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FellishBeast wrote...

Starbuck8 wrote...

So... was just watching the ME3 ending confrontation with Anderson and TIM on YouTube with my big headphones, and there are some really deep bass sounds that play during the dialogue. It almost seems like every time TIM says something powerful or assertive, you hear that deep sound. Has anyone noticed this before? Would be interesting if someone could record the ending or other parts of the game along side one of those audio analysis graphs real-time, so we can see the instances when infrasound or low bass plays.


That'd have to be Hellish or someone with that expertise.

Yes, I did notice it, though. I'm still not sure what to attribute the weirdness of that scene to. I want to say the oily shadows, weird rapid banging noises and waviness is all indoctrination, but I thought it was supposed to be TIM controlling Shepard. I forget what our take on whether or not TIM could actually acquire mind control powers is. :?


Well TIM´s powers could more be clasified as body control than mind control since Shepard and Anderson both seem to have full control over what they say.

Bu either way control of that magnitude so fast is unprecedented and if the reapers could truly do that... "Look at the power they wield!"... Yeah TIM neat and all, but if that is what they can do then why have they not done it. They could stop entire armies in their tracks in moments...

#24244
Starbuck8

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FellishBeast wrote...

Starbuck8 wrote...

So... was just watching the ME3 ending confrontation with Anderson and TIM on YouTube with my big headphones, and there are some really deep bass sounds that play during the dialogue. It almost seems like every time TIM says something powerful or assertive, you hear that deep sound. Has anyone noticed this before? Would be interesting if someone could record the ending or other parts of the game along side one of those audio analysis graphs real-time, so we can see the instances when infrasound or low bass plays.


That'd have to be Hellish or someone with that expertise.

Yes, I did notice it, though. I'm still not sure what to attribute the weirdness of that scene to. I want to say the oily shadows, weird rapid banging noises and waviness is all indoctrination, but I thought it was supposed to be TIM controlling Shepard. I forget what our take on whether or not TIM could actually acquire mind control powers is. :?


I'm pretty sure most here don't think he could do it, as there is no precedent to be able to do so in non-indoctrinated, non-implanted persons.

Anyway I was thinking the same thing, but noticed the sound with even greater intensity as TIM is about to shoot Anderson. At this point, Shepard is able to break free from his control and shoot TIM. So idk...

#24245
Starbuck8

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Another interesting observation:
I also noticed whenever those black tendrils intensify we get an intense bass sound (but the bass sound plays at other times too, usually when TIM says something powerful/assertive). Anyway, normally the tendrils and bass show up when it seems TIM is tightening his grip on Shepard. But before TIM commits suicide, he says "they're too strong" and again the tendrils and bass intensify but the focus is on TIM. But we're not controlling TIM or supposed to be feeling what he's feeling... unless he's a part of Shepard's psyche...

#24246
Asef Dimakiir

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HellishFiend wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

I always found it amusing that while the Reapers consider humans the best species for this cycle, reaperized humans are the most laughably pathetic of their forces. Then again, nothing makes less sense than banshees being the badass unit instead of brutes.


I agree. If we're supposedly most valuable as genetic goo, why turn so many into husks....


Coming back to this, I remember something in the codex talking about how humans deemed genetically "worthy" (which apparently husks could sense) would be herded by the husks into reaper processing ships to be turned into genetic goo or made indoctrinated slaves for labor/sleeper agents. The ones deemed unworthy would just be turned into husks.

Edit: Thinking back on it, this might be another reason they're so interested in Shepard. Either they find his genetics superior, or think he may be some sort of possible core personality/mind for the human reaper. It might be why Harbinger was going to such great lengths to get his corpse.

Modifié par Asef Dimakiir, 22 juin 2012 - 07:54 .


#24247
HellishFiend

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Someone said my name three times, so here I am.

What? More work? Umm...sure!

*activates Tactical Cloak*

#24248
Asef Dimakiir

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Besides Harbinger's creepy obsession of course. >_>

#24249
Starbuck8

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Starbuck8 wrote...

Another interesting observation:
I also noticed whenever those black tendrils intensify we get an intense bass sound (but the bass sound plays at other times too, usually when TIM says something powerful/assertive). Anyway, normally the tendrils and bass show up when it seems TIM is tightening his grip on Shepard. But before TIM commits suicide, he says "they're too strong" and again the tendrils and bass intensify but the focus is on TIM. But we're not controlling TIM or supposed to be feeling what he's feeling... unless he's a part of Shepard's psyche...


Watched another video, all renegade choice version, now I'm not so sure about the pattern between what TIM says and the bass, but it's maybe worth looking into.

Did notice though a similar thing as above happened. After using all your renegade dialogue with TIM, (just before you shoot him) starts shaking his head and says "no! I'm the savior of humanity..." and we get the tendrils and bass while focused on him. Hmm.

#24250
Starbuck8

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HellishFiend wrote...

Someone said my name three times, so here I am.

What? More work? Umm...sure!

*activates Tactical Cloak*


Lol we like to keep you busy! ;) I'm really looking forward to the video you're working on btw!