55528 réponses à ce sujet

[WolfyZA]

But I have to say you might be right this image made me swallow my words a bit...

http://farm8.staticf..._bffb601a61.jpg

Edit: could be a pop up glitch maybe?

Plus one thing that almost debunked the whole IT theory alone for me was this pic. Where Anderson is right behind Sheppard in The Citadel, taken directly from the CE artbook.. Seeing the book suggest that Anderson was really with you all along...

Modifié par WolfyZA, 22 juin 2012 - 09:54 .

[gunslinger_ruiz]

WolfyZA wrote...

You mean this shot?

http://i47.tinypic.com/15qe045.jpg

No.

Here as Harbinger lands:


And here as you're running downhill:


And here's one zoomed in with a sniper rifle as you run downhill:


Want the full sized images I can email them to you.

[gunslinger_ruiz]

TSA_383 wrote...


Also, Mike Gamble, if you are by any chance reading this, can I just say I got a good laugh out of the smackdown you gave that Economics student on twitter earlier

What? When did this happen? Link plz I could use a laugh after digging through my multitude of screenshots.

Edit: nvm found it, and that was a good chuckle [/slowclap].

Modifié par gunslinger_ruiz, 22 juin 2012 - 09:50 .

[nightcobra]

MegumiAzusa wrote...

WolfyZA wrote...

If you check out Clevernoobs IT Documentary you'd see he covers everything from A to Z concerning the IT



He even points out the lack of bodies right before getting hit by the beam.

And he is wrong with that claim.

i haven't seen any bodies like the piles of kaidan/ashley armor 2d look-a-likes before the beam, but i could be wrong.
though even if there were bodies there, i'm on the IT version that the "indocrination attempt" begins after the APC carrying shepard and anderson crashes, making the run to the beam also a part of the "indocrination attempt" 
doing so removes the inconsistencies within the run, like getting thrown closer to the beam after getting hit by harbinger, the odd misplacement of assets like the trees and body piles and etc.

Modifié par nightcobra8928, 22 juin 2012 - 09:52 .

[gunslinger_ruiz]

nightcobra8928 wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

WolfyZA wrote...

If you check out Clevernoobs IT Documentary you'd see he covers everything from A to Z concerning the IT



He even points out the lack of bodies right before getting hit by the beam.

And he is wrong with that claim.

i haven't seen any bodies like the piles of kaidan/ashley armor 2d look-a-likes before the beam, but i could be wrong.
though even if there were bodies there, i'm on the IT version that the "indocrination attempt" begins after the APC carrying shepard and anderson crashes, making the run to the beam also a part of the "indocrination attempt" 
doing so removes the inconsistencieswithin the run, like getting thrown closer to the beam after getting hit by harbinger, the odd misplacement of assets like the trees and body piles and etc.

Look at the screenshots above, right click and View Image for the last one and you can see the bodies. The detail is shockingly-low in game no matter how you view them though.

[nightcobra]

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

nightcobra8928 wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

WolfyZA wrote...

If you check out Clevernoobs IT Documentary you'd see he covers everything from A to Z concerning the IT



He even points out the lack of bodies right before getting hit by the beam.

And he is wrong with that claim.

i haven't seen any bodies like the piles of kaidan/ashley armor 2d look-a-likes before the beam, but i could be wrong.
though even if there were bodies there, i'm on the IT version that the "indocrination attempt" begins after the APC carrying shepard and anderson crashes, making the run to the beam also a part of the "indocrination attempt" 
doing so removes the inconsistencieswithin the run, like getting thrown closer to the beam after getting hit by harbinger, the odd misplacement of assets like the trees and body piles and etc.

Look at the screenshots above, right click and View Image for the last one and you can see the bodies. The detail is shockingly-low in game no matter how you view them though.

ok, the bodies are there. but as i said, i'm more in the camp of the "beam run" already being part of the indocrination attempt with the APC crash as the trigger point.

Modifié par nightcobra8928, 22 juin 2012 - 09:56 .

[WolfyZA]

Yeah I see them.. Still dont know why BW decided to make the bodies look like coloured rubble instead of real corpses... Always saw this as a sloppy design choice IMO.

Modifié par WolfyZA, 22 juin 2012 - 09:57 .

[gunslinger_ruiz]

Puzzle...pieces...they're....it's just a big...puzzle o_o
Bodies. Harbinger. The Beam. Lighting. Water. Coats. More bodies. Walk on air. Anderson. Illusive Man. Need you to believe. But I can... Even you are partly synthetic. Another solution. Flash forwards. Flash backs. Explosions. Normandy crash. Normandy whole. Squad alive. Shepard's breath. Das Malefitz, the Faunts, M4 Part II. Stargazer. Wintersun - Starchild. Lyrics. Did that all really happen?

It's getting late... but okay. One More Story.

Puzzle o.O

[WolfyZA]

What a TWEEEST!

[Ageless Face]

Ha! I found a question the IT can't answer (I think). And another question that I'm not sure if you found an answer for.

One: Why is there a critical mission faliure? Why does Marauder Shields shooting Shepard results in him/her dying? Or why is there a message of "The crucible is destroyed, you failed"? Isn't the dream should continue until Shepard is waking up?

Two: TIM. If TIM represents the indoctrinated part of Shepard, then why does TIM tries to shoot him/her?

[WolfyZA]

Hagar I'll answer a another question with your question.. Why does Sheppard bleed from the hip after shooting Anderson???

And

Why fail if TIM shoots Anderson.. But dies anyways after TIM dies himself, so shouldnt that still count as a mission fail? lol

EC will reveal all... I hope...

[Helios969]

HagarIshay wrote...

Ha! I found a question the IT can't answer (I think). And another question that I'm not sure if you found an answer for.

One: Why is there a critical mission faliure? Why does Marauder Shields shooting Shepard results in him/her dying? Or why is there a message of "The crucible is destroyed, you failed"? Isn't the dream should continue until Shepard is waking up?

Two: TIM. If TIM represents the indoctrinated part of Shepard, then why does TIM tries to shoot him/her?

My guess is the answer you'll get is that MS shooting you and "killing you" results in your indoctrination.  It might be the same as your journey into the Geth collective...they give you a gun because it's familiar.  It's something your mind can hold onto.  Hey, just more speculation.

[nightcobra]

HagarIshay wrote...

Ha! I found a question the IT can't answer (I think). And another question that I'm not sure if you found an answer for.

One: Why is there a critical mission faliure? Why does Marauder Shields shooting Shepard results in him/her dying? Or why is there a message of "The crucible is destroyed, you failed"? Isn't the dream should continue until Shepard is waking up?

Two: TIM. If TIM represents the indoctrinated part of Shepard, then why does TIM tries to shoot him/her?

1- a failure gameover state in IT represents, at least to me, that shepard wasn't worth indocrinating and/or either couldn't survive the attempt of indocrination. such a state normally results in the victim losing their mental faculties and just becoming feral or worse, husks. 


2- i consider shepard, anderson and TIM as 3 parts of shepard's psyche
the decider, the willpower and the part falling to indocrination respectively, TIM wants to be the dominating part of shepard's psyche and thus tries to convince him to join him, unable to do that TIM tries to become the only part of Shepard's psyche leaving only the indocrinated part leaving nothing of shepard behind, thus losing mental faculties, thus becoming a husk.
 

Modifié par nightcobra8928, 22 juin 2012 - 10:22 .

[gunslinger_ruiz]

HagarIshay wrote...

Ha! I found a question the IT can't answer (I think). And another question that I'm not sure if you found an answer for.

One: Why is there a critical mission faliure? Why does Marauder Shields shooting Shepard results in him/her dying? Or why is there a message of "The crucible is destroyed, you failed"? Isn't the dream should continue until Shepard is waking up?

If you're looking at it as an indoctrination attempt, the 3 husks and Marauder Shields could be seen as other tools/early attemtps to kill Shepard's will  resulting in a game over. As for the crucible, Shepard doesn't know it's a hallucination and see's a battle raging on outside and we don't know it's a hallucination (or not, for now) so suppose we would get suspicious if we could just stand there for an hour while the Reapers move around the Crucible and didn't try to blow it up.

Two: TIM. If TIM represents the indoctrinated part of Shepard, then why does TIM tries to shoot him/her?

TIM can also represent a  tool for indoctrination, trying to get you to his way/the Reapers way of thinking that ultimately fails but still succeeds in weakening your willpower. The IT has many variations, I'm a personal believer that TIM is sort of a probe or weapon inside your mind while Anderson represents a bulk of your willpower/determination.

Modifié par gunslinger_ruiz, 22 juin 2012 - 10:23 .

[Ageless Face]

WolfyZA wrote...

Hagar I'll answer a another question with your question.. Why does Sheppard bleed from the hip after shooting Anderson???

And

Why fail if TIM shoots Anderson.. But dies anyways after TIM dies himself, so shouldnt that still count as a mission fail? lol

EC will reveal all... I hope...

1. You'll see that Shepard is holding his/her side even before Anderson was shot. And why doesn't Shepard dies when Anderson does, if the wounds are connceted?

2. I... Don't understand the question. 

[WolfyZA]

IMO I just think its a mechanic in the game to motivate the player to get pass that part to continue to its destination... Example... MGS 3 You can kill young Ocelot but will get a mission failure creating "a paradox effect". Could be the same thing here?

Why fail if TIM shoots Anderson.. But dies anyways after TIM dies himself, so shouldnt that still count as a mission fail? lol 

By this I mean If you dont convince TIM to commit suicide or kill him he automatically kills Anderson leading to a mission failure. But you wound Anderson anyways letting him die moments later anyways... So doesnt that act alone already count as a mission failure, seeing you killed Anderson.

Modifié par WolfyZA, 22 juin 2012 - 10:29 .

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

HagarIshay wrote...

Ha! I found a question the IT can't answer (I think). And another question that I'm not sure if you found an answer for.

One: Why is there a critical mission faliure? Why does Marauder Shields shooting Shepard results in him/her dying? Or why is there a message of "The crucible is destroyed, you failed"? Isn't the dream should continue until Shepard is waking up?

Two: TIM. If TIM represents the indoctrinated part of Shepard, then why does TIM tries to shoot him/her?

Old stuff.

Basicly under the IT I theorize death by Marauder, Husks, TIM simply means the Indoctrination overcame Shepards will. No need for the choices to trick Shepard, the Indoctrination outright broke him. Basicly only the strong willed like Saren/TIM/Shepard even get a choice under Indoctrination because they resist it breaking thme outright. After all if everyone who suffered Indoctrination was given a choice like Shepard, then by pure chance of luck some people would have resisted. At least that is my layout of it.

The Crucible mission failure might be completely true. Remember just because Shepard is halucinating/knocked out time dosent magically stand still. The Crucible is on the move and vulnerable, so possibly Shepard took too long and the Crucible was indeed destroyed outside his halucination. Another possibility is that he took to long to decide and the Reapers decided to finish him off.

See my first point for an explanation on TIM tying to shoot Shepard.

[Ageless Face]

Helios969 wrote...

My guess is the answer you'll get is that MS shooting you and "killing you" results in your indoctrination.  It might be the same as your journey into the Geth collective...they give you a gun because it's familiar.  It's something your mind can hold onto.  Hey, just more speculation.

Yet you don't get that after choosing control and synthesis. So the message is not really about indoctrination.

[Ageless Face]

nightcobra8928 wrote...

1- a failure gameover state in IT represents, at least to me, that shepard wasn't worth indocrinating and/or either couldn't survive the attempt of indocrination. such a state normally results in the victim losing their mental faculties and just becoming feral or worse, husks. 


2- i consider shepard, anderson and TIM as 3 parts of shepard's psyche
the decider, the willpower and the part falling to indocrination respectively, TIM wants to be the dominating part of shepard's psyche and thus tries to convince him to join him, unable to do that TIM tries to become the only part of Shepard's psyche leaving only the indocrinated part leaving nothing of shepard behind, thus losing mental faculties, thus becoming a husk.
 

Damm it, that can make sense. Couldn't let me have one question unanswered from the IT?  

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

HagarIshay wrote...

1. You'll see that Shepard is holding his/her side even before Anderson was shot. And why doesn't Shepard dies when Anderson does, if the wounds are connceted?

2. I... Don't understand the question. 

And see that is where you are wrong. Shepard is indeed holding his side, but not in the spot where the wound appears.

Also if the wound was there before it raises several questions, like:

How did he get it?

Harbingers beam dosent hit him and would have seared any wound shut like it sears of his armor. Marauder shields was it not either as Shepard is visibly hit in the shoulder there. The only time a shot hits taht area of a persons side is when Shepard shoots Anderson.

Why dosent it bleed until Shepard sits down?

If it was bleeding as much all the time as it is shown when Shepard looks at his side and hand then Shepard would have passed out long ago from bloodloss.

Why even have the close up of the wound and Shepards hand?

The camera very deliberately shows us the wound and the heavy bleeding right after Andersons death. If there was no connection why even show us this? It is just another wound and it is has no importance for what happens.

[nightcobra]

HagarIshay wrote...

nightcobra8928 wrote...

1- a failure gameover state in IT represents, at least to me, that shepard wasn't worth indocrinating and/or either couldn't survive the attempt of indocrination. such a state normally results in the victim losing their mental faculties and just becoming feral or worse, husks. 


2- i consider shepard, anderson and TIM as 3 parts of shepard's psyche
the decider, the willpower and the part falling to indocrination respectively, TIM wants to be the dominating part of shepard's psyche and thus tries to convince him to join him, unable to do that TIM tries to become the only part of Shepard's psyche leaving only the indocrinated part leaving nothing of shepard behind, thus losing mental faculties, thus becoming a husk.
 

Damm it, that can make sense. Couldn't let me have one question unanswered from the IT?  

....you asked.

i answered.

would you prefer i hadn't?

[Helios969]

HagarIshay wrote...

Helios969 wrote...

My guess is the answer you'll get is that MS shooting you and "killing you" results in your indoctrination.  It might be the same as your journey into the Geth collective...they give you a gun because it's familiar.  It's something your mind can hold onto.  Hey, just more speculation.

Yet you don't get that after choosing control and synthesis. So the message is not really about indoctrination.

Didn't say I agreed with said logic.  You also get critical mission failure message if you try and walk back up the hill.  You don't get swarmed by husks or shot by MS, just collapse and die after a few steps.  Transport beam has healing powers I guess. Space magic.

[Lord Goose]

T

he camera very deliberately shows us the wound and the
heavy bleeding right after Andersons death.

Not always true.
It is possible to let TIM kill Anderson, when kill him afterwards.
The scene would be shorter, but you will still have close-up and bleeding part.

[MegumiAzusa]

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

HagarIshay wrote...

1. You'll see that Shepard is holding his/her side even before Anderson was shot. And why doesn't Shepard dies when Anderson does, if the wounds are connceted?

2. I... Don't understand the question. 

And see that is where you are wrong. Shepard is indeed holding his side, but not in the spot where the wound appears.

Also if the wound was there before it raises several questions, like:

How did he get it?

Harbingers beam dosent hit him and would have seared any wound shut like it sears of his armor. Marauder shields was it not either as Shepard is visibly hit in the shoulder there. The only time a shot hits taht area of a persons side is when Shepard shoots Anderson.

Could just been gravel that ricochets from the beam while shields/barriers are down. It is too inconclusive to support anything.

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

Why dosent it bleed until Shepard sits down?

If it was bleeding as much all the time as it is shown when Shepard looks at his side and hand then Shepard would have passed out long ago from bloodloss.

Medi gel might have been applied in some minor way but the stress, especially when Sheps body was taken over and the resulting struggle could have ruptured the patch.

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

Why even have the close up of the wound and Shepards hand?

The camera very deliberately shows us the wound and the heavy bleeding right after Andersons death. If there was no connection why even show us this? It is just another wound and it is has no importance for what happens.

The importance would be Shepard is nearly bleeding out and after beaming up she is suddenly fine again (for the most part at least). That is in my opinion what they wanted to show.

As you can see it's too inconclusive to draw anything from it.

[Rifneno]

HagarIshay wrote...

Ha! I found a question the IT can't answer (I think). And another question that I'm not sure if you found an answer for.

One: Why is there a critical mission faliure? Why does Marauder Shields shooting Shepard results in him/her dying? Or why is there a message of "The crucible is destroyed, you failed"? Isn't the dream should continue until Shepard is waking up?

Two: TIM. If TIM represents the indoctrinated part of Shepard, then why does TIM tries to shoot him/her?

I have a question too.  Why do literalists always think that one little thing would prove their side correct?  The mountain of evidence supporting IT doesn't dissipate because of one minor, or even one major point.  As literalists are so fond of pointing out, mistakes do happen and writers, no matter how gifted, aren't omniscient.  There's always going to be some little inconsistencies.  The whole picture is what matters.  As long as IT makes more sense than the mental holocaust that is the literal interpretation, then IT still holds water.  And right now it's holding oceans full.