55528 réponses à ce sujet

[MegumiAzusa]

Helios969 wrote...

HagarIshay wrote...

Helios969 wrote...

My guess is the answer you'll get is that MS shooting you and "killing you" results in your indoctrination.  It might be the same as your journey into the Geth collective...they give you a gun because it's familiar.  It's something your mind can hold onto.  Hey, just more speculation.

Yet you don't get that after choosing control and synthesis. So the message is not really about indoctrination.

Didn't say I agreed with said logic.  You also get critical mission failure message if you try and walk back up the hill.  You don't get swarmed by husks or shot by MS, just collapse and die after a few steps. Transport beam has healing powers I guess. Space magic.

Just think about it as Shepards willpower. With turning around or not making any choice she basically gives up.

[Ageless Face]

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

And see that is where you are wrong. Shepard is indeed holding his side, but not in the spot where the wound appears.

  

Actually s/he does. We see at a certain point Shepard is holding his/her side. Before Anderson is getting shot.

 
Also if the wound was there before it raises several questions, like:

How did he get it?

Harbingers beam dosent hit him and would have seared any wound shut like it sears of his armor. Marauder shields was it not either as Shepard is visibly hit in the shoulder there. The only time a shot hits taht area of a persons side is when Shepard shoots Anderson. 

 

Why wouldn't Shepard bleed from the laser? It hit him/her. We saw saw Shepard bleeding from the face. The laser did hit him/her. And if the wound is from Anderson, why don't we see Shepard crippled in pain after shooting him/her?

 
Why dosent it bleed until Shepard sits down?

If it was bleeding as much all the time as it is shown when Shepard looks at his side and hand then Shepard would have passed out long ago from bloodloss. 

 

Same reason we don't see TIM bleeds from his face when he gets shot. Or Anderson. Or Saren in ME1. Seeing Shepard bleeds is for the drama effect.

 
Why even have the close up of the wound and Shepards hand?

The camera very deliberately shows us the wound and the heavy bleeding right after Andersons death. If there was no connection why even show us this? It is just another wound and it is has no importance for what happens.

It is to show us how severe Shepard's state is. It's not the first time in a in the media we see this kinds of things. 

[nightcobra]

pro and anti IT people, no need to be confrontational.

instead just talk on the points you think why IT is true or not without degenerating into confrontational answers.

i'll try my part, and if you're not convinced or at least understand my reasoning on IT, i'll talk until you are satisfied. simple, clean and easy to understand.

[Rifneno]

MegumiAzusa wrote...

Just think about it as Shepards willpower. With turning around or not making any choice she basically gives up.

Damn.  Nice.  That's a better explanation than I'd came up with.

[nightcobra]

HagarIshay wrote...


It is to show us how severe Shepard's state is. It's not the first time in a in the media we see this kinds of things. 

though if it was just for drama effect, wouldn't it make more sense to show a bleeding shoulder wound from marauder shields rather than an abdomen gunshot injury we never got? the dramatic effect would have been the same as far as i can see.

[Ageless Face]

Rifneno wrote...


I have a question too.  Why do literalists always think that one little thing would prove their side correct?  The mountain of evidence supporting IT doesn't dissipate because of one minor, or even one major point.  As literalists are so fond of pointing out, mistakes do happen and writers, no matter how gifted, aren't omniscient.  There's always going to be some little inconsistencies.  The whole picture is what matters.  As long as IT makes more sense than the mental holocaust that is the literal interpretation, then IT still holds water.  And right now it's holding oceans full.

I didn't mean to say the IT is not true. Just seemed that the IT got pretty much an answer to everything (literally). Got exited when I thought about a question I thought there is no answer for (Apperantly I was wrong). I don't say the IT is not true because of the small things, I just wanted to find one loophole, regardless if the IT was planned or not.

I'm sorry if it came out in the wrong way. I didn't mean anything by it, honestly.

Modifié par HagarIshay, 22 juin 2012 - 10:59 .

[Lord Goose]

It hit him/her.
We saw saw Shepard bleeding from the face.

Also, right after the awakening, he/she is lying in a small pool of blood.

[Helios969]

Rifneno wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

Just think about it as Shepards willpower. With turning around or not making any choice she basically gives up.

Damn.  Nice.  That's a better explanation than I'd came up with.

Still not sure it isn't a better option than the entire TIM/Catalyst sequence.

[Ageless Face]

nightcobra8928 wrote...

though if it was just for drama effect, wouldn't it make more sense to show a bleeding shoulder wound from marauder shields rather than an abdomen gunshot injury we never got? the dramatic effect would have been the same as far as i can see.

True, it could. I have no answer as to why BioWare did that if the IT is not true. 

[Ageless Face]

Lord Goose wrote...

Also, right after the awakening, he/she is lying in a small pool of blood.

S/he does?  I need to pay more attention to things. 

[WolfyZA]

I also read in the EC artbook the bodies in the citadel after entering the beam are cerberus troops. Who murdered them I wonder?

Modifié par WolfyZA, 22 juin 2012 - 11:20 .

[Tyrium]

I'm still not buying into indoctrination theory (though I do think it would be awesome if that's what is going to happen, I just don't believe it), but I just got something very creepy in my playthrough:

Talking to the prothean VI at the cerberus base, if you take too long to answer, voices start talking, They are very indistinct, but I'm pretty sure I heard a male (human? prothean? had Javik's accent), and what sounded like husks.

I'm not convinced, I don't think IT is Bioware's plan, but it is interesting. Maybe another explanation is "memories" stored in the VI being played?

[WolfyZA]

Voices you say... I need to check that out next time I talk to him

[MaximizedAction]

WolfyZA wrote...

I also read in the EC artbook the bodies in the citadel after entering the beam are cerberus troops. Who murdered them I wonder?

Wait, isn't that artbook pic described to be concept art for TIM's base?

[Rifneno]

HagarIshay wrote...

I didn't mean to say the IT is not true. Just seemed that the IT got pretty much an answer to everything (literally). Got exited when I thought about a question I thought there is no answer for (Apperantly I was wrong). I don't say the IT is not true because of the small things, I just wanted to find one loophole, regardless if the IT was planned or not.

I'm sorry if it came out in the wrong way. I didn't mean anything by it, honestly.

Ahh.  Apologies for my assumption.  We do get a lot of those type of posts. 

[PoorBleedingMe]

This is my first post here so hi everyone.

After reading all those theories I still am unable to comprehend, why am I the only one to be certain of what really happened in the ME3 ending.

First of all, the most important thing is not to exclude any of the two main paths of interpretation - the Indoctrination Theory, nor the 'Literal' Interpretation...

I'll go straight into explaining my own interpretation:
1. The Reapers created the Crucible as a device that allowed them to evolve. As we learn from the Catalyst, there are parts of the device, he didn't know earlier (of course it means the Control and Destroy options). I undestand that the Reapers waited for the 'Perfect Organic Individual' that would be worthy enough to merge his/hers DNA with the Reapers' 'DNA' and all living organisms (or organic/synthetic hybrids) would become rewritten as perfect.

The Reaper arrivals were to clean the galaxy of 'unworthy' organisms. BUT there were the Protheans who discovered the Crucible blueprints, decoded them and learned about the device's purpose. Therefore, they modified the device by adding two other options of using the Crucible. Unfortunately, they weren't able to build it and put it to use.

2. Shepard neeeded to be pure, to be worthy. The Catalyst states, that the Illusive Man was already owned by the Reapers. Perhaps the only 'non-literal' scene of the ending is the Shepard-Anderson-Illusive Man scene, where the latter two represent strong will and indoctrination. This was to be Shepard's final test. If he was prone to indoctrination, he again would prove unworthy. Therefore killing the IM demonstrates that Shepard is retaining his strong will and clear mind.

3. When Shepards is about to decide the fate of the Reapers, the Catalyst does all it can to MANIPULATE Shepard into choosing the MERGE option. Both options added by the Protheans (Control and Destroy) would mean the failure of the Reapers' plans, therefore even the colours are chosen to represent certain feelings (blue and green are viewed as good and neutral, while red as evil).

As we learn later, only the Destroy option gives some hope that the Reapers were really defeated (the breath scene) and would no longer pose any threat to the Galaxy. The form of the Catalyst purposedly resembles the boy, that Shepard saw dying. This was traumatical for Shepard and was a source of constant emotions. Emotions are the means to MANIPULATE people.

To summarise - the Reapers, after millenia of performing their 'rituals', finally found an Individual worhty of using his DNA to recreate the Galaxy (mind you, all lifeforms were to become Reapers, even plants - the leaf in the outro sequence). The Crucible, the Citadel and the Mass Relays were built to achieve this goal.

The Reapers tested the Individual through the course of the events shown in 3 ME games, but - thanks to the Protheans and their alteration of the Crucible blueprints - when the Chosen One finally stood before them, he could as much obliterate them as fulfill their will.

I don't go into details as they are mostly irrelevant. When you get the right point, everything else become logical.

P.S. Sorry for my English, but it's not my native language

[Lakeshow1986]

Anderson is Shepards resolve, at least this is what I saw when Anderson cannot stand still, respresenting Shepard's wavering resolve.

[SubAstris]

PoorBleedingMe wrote...


1. The Reapers created the Crucible as a device that allowed them to evolve. As we learn from the Catalyst, there are parts of the device, he didn't know earlier (of course it means the Control and Destroy options). I undestand that the Reapers waited for the 'Perfect Organic Individual' that would be worthy enough to merge his/hers DNA with the Reapers' 'DNA' and all living organisms (or organic/synthetic hybrids) would become rewritten as perfect.

The Reaper arrivals were to clean the galaxy of 'unworthy' organisms. BUT there were the Protheans who discovered the Crucible blueprints, decoded them and learned about the device's purpose. Therefore, they modified the device by adding two other options of using the Crucible. Unfortunately, they weren't able to build it and put it to use.

1) Do you mean evolve from a state pre-Reaper to a Reaper? How does that work and how is it supported by the narrative? I can't remember the Catalyst talking about any earlier parts of the device, perhaps you could show people exactly what you mean.

If the Reapers truly wanted a "perfect organic individual", why do they kill indiscriminately entire advanced races? Surely if that were the case they would seek out such a being, possibly they would negotiate with species ("we have your best guy and we will leave you alone"  They see themselves as the final stage of evolution anyway, so why need to become more perfect?

Isn't it also implied that the Protheans weren't the first ones to know about the properties of the Crucible?

[SubAstris]

Lakeshow1986 wrote...

Anderson is Shepards resolve, at least this is what I saw when Anderson cannot stand still, respresenting Shepard's wavering resolve.

His movements are heavily impeded by TIM

[Lokanaiya]

HagarIshay wrote...

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

And see that is where you are wrong. Shepard is indeed holding his side, but not in the spot where the wound appears.

  

Actually s/he does. We see at a certain point Shepard is holding his/her side. Before Anderson is getting shot.

 
Also if the wound was there before it raises several questions, like:

How did he get it?

Harbingers beam dosent hit him and would have seared any wound shut like it sears of his armor. Marauder shields was it not either as Shepard is visibly hit in the shoulder there. The only time a shot hits taht area of a persons side is when Shepard shoots Anderson. 

 

Why wouldn't Shepard bleed from the laser? It hit him/her. We saw saw Shepard bleeding from the face. The laser did hit him/her. And if the wound is from Anderson, why don't we see Shepard crippled in pain after shooting him/her?

1. When is this? Shepard holds his shoulder occasionaly as part of an idle animation, but other than that, I don't think Shepard ever indicates he's wounded in a specific place.

2. Because it's a giant laser? If the laser had actually hit Shepard full-on, he would have been vaporized, or at least had a bigger wound than one conviently gunshot-sized. Also, as mentioned before, any wound a laser made it would have instantly cauterized as well.

[MegumiAzusa]

Lokanaiya wrote...

HagarIshay wrote...

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

And see that is where you are wrong. Shepard is indeed holding his side, but not in the spot where the wound appears.

  

Actually s/he does. We see at a certain point Shepard is holding his/her side. Before Anderson is getting shot.

 
Also if the wound was there before it raises several questions, like:

How did he get it?

Harbingers beam dosent hit him and would have seared any wound shut like it sears of his armor. Marauder shields was it not either as Shepard is visibly hit in the shoulder there. The only time a shot hits taht area of a persons side is when Shepard shoots Anderson. 

 

Why wouldn't Shepard bleed from the laser? It hit him/her. We saw saw Shepard bleeding from the face. The laser did hit him/her. And if the wound is from Anderson, why don't we see Shepard crippled in pain after shooting him/her?

1. When is this? Shepard holds his shoulder occasionaly as part of an idle animation, but other than that, I don't think Shepard ever indicates he's wounded in a specific place.

2. Because it's a giant laser? If the laser had actually hit Shepard full-on, he would have been vaporized, or at least had a bigger wound than one conviently gunshot-sized. Also, as mentioned before, any wound a laser made it would have instantly cauterized as well.

There are 3 different idle animations, in one she presses on her stomach.

[Lord Goose]

S/he does? I need to pay more attention to things.

Yeup.

http://tinypic.com/r/332cpad/6

Also, I found out, that your squadmates do not follow you after certain point of the road. If anyone intrested, try to walk to the beam backwards, watching them. They will simply stand where, doing nothing and watching as you hit by a Reaper beam.

Traitors.

[MaximizedAction]

Lord Goose wrote...

S/he does? I need to pay more attention to things.

Yeup.

http://tinypic.com/r/332cpad/6

Also, I found out, that your squadmates do not follow you after certain point of the road. If anyone intrested, try to walk to the beam backwards, watching them. They will simply stand where, doing nothing and watching as you hit by a Reaper beam.

Traitors.

Someone recorded a vid (Megumi?) and showed that them staying behind is a glitch. The same, that one (I did) encounters during the rest of ME3, where one or both sqadmembers just decide not to climb the ladder, or not go through the door while it's still open. But BW seem to have implemented the solution, by just teleporting them near you once you look somewhere else. Sometimes that workaround works, sometimes it doesn't.

So that happeneing during the beam run is likely not intentional, as you can see them on low EMS lying dead on the ground after you get hit by Harbinger.

[PoorBleedingMe]

SubAstris wrote...

1) Do you mean evolve from a state pre-Reaper to a Reaper? How does that work and how is it supported by the narrative? I can't remember the Catalyst talking about any earlier parts of the device, perhaps you could show people exactly what you mean.

If the Reapers truly wanted a "perfect organic individual", why do they kill indiscriminately entire advanced races? Surely if that were the case they would seek out such a being, possibly they would negotiate with species ("we have your best guy and we will leave you alone"  They see themselves as the final stage of evolution anyway, so why need to become more perfect?

Isn't it also implied that the Protheans weren't the first ones to know about the properties of the Crucible?

The Catalyst states something like it was not aware of the potential "new" future paths until the Crucible interfaced with the Citadel (which 'housed' the Catalyst). These new paths are obviously the Blue and Red one. I though it was really hard to miss this part of the conversation.

They gave all undeveloped organic races 50.000 years to:
- evolve into a spacefaring civilization
- discover the mass relays and the way to use them
- discover the Catalyst blueprints
- build the Catalyst and have an individual amongst themselves, who would be strong enough to challenge the allmighty Reapers, and actually confront them (the Protheans were close but I'm guessing, there was no such Individual amongs them as Shepard), which would prove the strenght of such Individual.

[MegumiAzusa]

MaximizedAction wrote...

Lord Goose wrote...

S/he does? I need to pay more attention to things.

Yeup.

http://tinypic.com/r/332cpad/6

Also, I found out, that your squadmates do not follow you after certain point of the road. If anyone intrested, try to walk to the beam backwards, watching them. They will simply stand where, doing nothing and watching as you hit by a Reaper beam.

Traitors.

Someone recorded a vid (Megumi?) and showed that them staying behind is a glitch. The same, that one (I did) encounters during the rest of ME3, where one or both sqadmembers just decide not to climb the ladder, or not go through the door while it's still open. But BW seem to have implemented the solution, by just teleporting them near you once you look somewhere else. Sometimes that workaround works, sometimes it doesn't.

So that happeneing during the beam run is likely not intentional, as you can see them on low EMS lying dead on the ground after you get hit by Harbinger.

Yes, they do follow but the pathfinding seems broken in the run to the conduit so they often just standing there but get teleportet back to you after a while.
And yes I did record that as I was inspecting some stuff, but as with others I deleted it.