253 réponses à ce sujet

[tetsutsuru]

One word which makes a Conventional Victory possible:  Morale.

Shepard managing a high EMS rating means the biggest galactic "Sword" fleet and "Hammer" ground teams ever assembled.  Soldiers will have solid confidence and a high morale.  High morale means every single soldier can fight harder, better, faster, stronger.  This includes EDI, in spite of being synthetic.  Remember the last private conversation with her in the FOB?  She will follow Shepard, now determined and unwavering.  The same goes for the Geth, with full-AI sentience.

You can throw all the math you want at this with fleet ratings, score, strength, or whatever else have you.  But 'morale' is the one big thing which will throw all those equations up in the air.

Know a real-life soldier who's been in an actual combat theatre, let alone one who's been in direct combat?  Go ahead and ask him/her how much of a difference morale affects the situation.  But you know, you might not even need to, there are lots of realistic movies which portray such:  300, We Were Soldiers, Saving Private Ryan, Act of Valor.  Even realistic, science fiction, Battle: Los Angeles.

Outnumbered?  Outgunned?  So, you gonna just bend over and let the Reapers have their way with you, and you just take it then?  Hell, no!  I'm gonna die, but I'm gonna make my ONE, seemingly insignificant life cost them dearly to take.

Not saying that High EMS = High Morale = instant guaranteed victory against the Reapers.  Morale is a wildcard which can definitely turn 'victory' from a mere dream or wishful thinking, into a fighting chance of possibility.

Modifié par tetsutsuru, 14 mai 2012 - 05:41 .

[Meatus]

 Not to mention we single-handedly took down a Reaper on foot before, in less than 10 minutes. Sovereign was shredded similarly. And the one on Tuchanka was essentially hugged to death.

So yeah, I'd say they can be conventionally defeated as well.

[lordnyx1]

Meatus wrote...
And the one on Tuchanka was essentially hugged to death.

Mother of all threwsar maws so unless you can create a gun that fires them..(Get on that EDI!!!)

[Atakuma]

That's a nice sentiment, but it's ultimately worthless against an enemy that can plow through your best defenses with relative ease.

Modifié par Atakuma, 14 mai 2012 - 05:55 .

[Dantexr3]

I have another word:

Grunt.

Now a lot of reapers are going to die.

[eddieoctane]

Meatus wrote...

 Not to mention we single-handedly took down a Reaper on foot before, in less than 10 minutes. Sovereign was shredded similarly. And the one on Tuchanka was essentially hugged to death.

So yeah, I'd say they can be conventionally defeated as well.

I took down a Reaper in less than 10 seconds. My literal reaction: "Oh, look. An M-920 Cain. And a Reaper." *big explosion* "How the hell is a conventional victory not possible?!"

[J0HNL3I]

Dantexr3 wrote...

I have another word:

Wrex.

Now a lot of reapers are going to die.

fixed:whistle:

[savionen]

Atakuma wrote...

That's a nice sentiment, but it's ultimately worthless against an enemy that can plow through your best defenses with relative ease.

The lore and codex conflicts with itself way too much in this area.

In one battle you've got a group of ships doing hit and run tactics and killing half a dozen reapers. In another, somehow 1 reaper destroys an entire fleet.

Doesn't make sense, at all.

[The Mercenary55]

i support this!

[teh DRUMPf!!]

Atakuma wrote...

That's a nice sentiment, but it's ultimately worthless against an enemy that can plow through your best defenses with relative ease.

Co-sign. OP you said it yourself, you're getting this from movies. This isn't hollywood, or high-school football. Better strategy and numbers wins the war. Morale, at best, can give one of two evenly-matched armies an edge. But Reapers vs. galaxy is not evenly-matched.

'Don't buy conventional victory - never did.

Modifié par HYR 2.0, 14 mai 2012 - 06:03 .

[incinerator950]

Meatus wrote...

 Not to mention we single-handedly took down a Reaper on foot before, in less than 10 minutes. Sovereign was shredded similarly. And the one on Tuchanka was essentially hugged to death.

So yeah, I'd say they can be conventionally defeated as well.

They can be, but you do not have enough ships and manpower, as well as Fire Power.  The Council did not arm itself, they did not have respectable stockpiles of Nuclear and Anti-Matter weapons.  Everyone who does is afraid of the Collateral damage.  Destroying Mass Relays and using Suicide-FTL/Bomber ships has been debunked. 

Thanix Cannons are only applicable for modular use, and are not Standard Issue.  The total force of ships collected at the end of the game will not be able to defeat the Reaper Fleet above Earth.  While you are fighting, Reapers are still all over the Galaxy, Reaping.  Every instance of fighting the Reapers, you've had to use something Superior.  A group of Quarian Cruisers, a Thresher Maw larger then a Reaper.  You've read about suicide bombers entering Reapers, and the military kills of several ships overwhelming Reapers.
 
So, like we've had this discussion a dozen times (amp).  It's possible, but Bioware is not going to right that possibility.  A conventional victory does nothing, even if you apply it to the current ending.  Pushing the Reapers off of Earth, or managing to pull a victory will be miraculous.  You won't get anywhere after that, the Reapers have control of the big player's Home Worlds.  You deceived every major race to help you, failed the Super Weapon, and will have catastrophic losses that will not be able to reclaim Thessia, Paliven, or Kar'shan.  Once the Reapers learn of their massive defeat, they will regroup and counterattack.  

[estebanus]

Morale doesn't help when a guddamn laser destroys your ship in one shot.

Modifié par estebanus, 14 mai 2012 - 06:01 .

[incinerator950]

estebanus wrote...

Morale doesn't help when a guddamn laser destroys your ship in one shot.

Or kills entire platoons, and destroys fortified bunkers every shot. 

[grey_wind]

Nah, it's much more logical to put all your hopes (and resources) for victory into a device nobody understands that you have to link up to the enemy's own creation that nobody also understands.

[111987]

This is laughable. There is no way we win conventionally no matter how high our morale is.

[tetsutsuru]

grey_wind wrote...

Nah, it's much more logical to put all your hopes (and resources) for victory into a device nobody understands that you have to link up to the enemy's own creation that nobody also understands.

The space magic wand called the 'Crucible'.  LOL!

I've said it before... oh, here it is, from this thread:

tetsutsuru wrote...

Because the Crucible is an ill-conceived plot device.

We have the understanding enough to determine that the Prothean "device" is a "weapon". We have the understanding enough to determine that said "weapon" is possible for us to construct. If one has the knowlege to determine what something is, and the means to build said something, why is it that NO ONE (out of EVERYONE working on the project) can determine what the "weapon" actually does?

Every single person of every single species working on Project:Crucible go retard, and turn into mere worker drones, following Prothean Ikea How-To instructions?

[111987]

grey_wind wrote...

Nah, it's much more logical to put all your hopes (and resources) for victory into a device nobody understands that you have to link up to the enemy's own creation that nobody also understands.

That just shows how desperate the galaxy is. All the top military commanders are willing to commit to some harebrained scheme because they know it is the galaxy's only hope.

[Tom Lehrer]

Sorry OP but morale is not that big a deal. People dont suddenly become faster and stronger because they are happy. Strategy and tactics are what wins wars.

[xsdob]

Yes because that's what wins wars, not numbers, tactics, or ingenuity, just morale.

You hear that Mexico, Native Americans, Hawaiians, and Japanese. You couldn't beat us because you didn't have the conviction, determination, or willingness to do anything to win like we did. Not because america had a technological advantage and a strategic cunning that most do not.

My peoples annexed islands land says otherwise.

[savionen]

111987 wrote...

grey_wind wrote...

Nah, it's much more logical to put all your hopes (and resources) for victory into a device nobody understands that you have to link up to the enemy's own creation that nobody also understands.

That just shows how desperate the galaxy is. All the top military commanders are willing to commit to some harebrained scheme because they know it is the galaxy's only hope.

Hackett is also a colossal idiot the entire game.

[tetsutsuru]

estebanus wrote...

Morale doesn't help when a guddamn laser destroys your ship in one shot.

Who says we don't have the capability to inflict the same on Reaper ships?  Perhaps not in just one, clumsilly-aimed shot.  But in a few or several, precision shots, at least Reaper Destroyers can be taken out.

[tetsutsuru]

estebanus wrote...

Morale doesn't help when a guddamn laser destroys your ship in one shot.

incinerator950 wrote...

Or kills entire platoons, and destroys fortified bunkers every shot.

We have our own weapons of mass destruction that can take out waves of Reaper forces as well.

Modifié par tetsutsuru, 14 mai 2012 - 06:16 .

[111987]

tetsutsuru wrote...

estebanus wrote...

Morale doesn't help when a guddamn laser destroys your ship in one shot.

Who says we don't have the capability to inflict the same on Reaper ships?  Perhaps not in just one, clumsilly-aimed shot.  But in a few or several, precision shots, at least Reaper Destroyers can be taken out.

Yes, but there are thousands of those.

[dreman9999]

tetsutsuru wrote...

estebanus wrote...

Morale doesn't help when a guddamn laser destroys your ship in one shot.

Who says we don't have the capability to inflict the same on Reaper ships?  Perhaps not in just one, clumsilly-aimed shot.  But in a few or several, precision shots, at least Reaper Destroyers can be taken out.

We can't one shot reaper ships.
 Also moral does ensure victory ageinst an enemy that never sleeps, stops fighting, uses your fall for themselves, and can wipe out squads in a singual attack.

[incinerator950]

tetsutsuru wrote...

estebanus wrote...

Morale doesn't help when a guddamn laser destroys your ship in one shot.

Who says we don't have the capability to inflict the same on Reaper ships?  Perhaps not in just one, clumsilly-aimed shot.  But in a few or several, precision shots, at least Reaper Destroyers can be taken out.

It's fairly obvious they won't.  The Mass Accelerator (proto Crucible?) that took out the Klendagon impact Reaper tore through the hull and glanced off the Crust of Klendagon, that was massive in power.  It takes the equivilant of 4 Dreadnoughts to have an equal chance of killing a Sovereign class Capital in a sustained firefight, without flanking, without forcing the Reapers to drop the mass of their reactors to move.  

For the record which no one pieced together, Reaper Destroyers are expendable compared to Capitals.  Reaper Capitals were not shown to be designed to have those weaknesses.  Stop assuming they have them.