253 réponses à ce sujet

[savionen]

ReggarBlane wrote...

I have to disagree. Morale doesn't always work.

Sure. A defeatist attitude is a definite negative (except for suiciders).

Yet, how well did morale work for the countless past cycles?

I'm sure their morale was pretty low when they were suddenly cut off from the rest of the galaxy, getting destroyed by unknown cthulhu-monsters that they didn't know existed.

[Rip504]

dreman9999 wrote...

savionen wrote...

NS Wizdum wrote...

xsdob wrote...

Yes because that's what wins wars, not numbers, tactics, or ingenuity, just morale.

You hear that Mexico, Native Americans, Hawaiians, and Japanese. You couldn't beat us because you didn't have the conviction, determination, or willingness to do anything to win like we did. Not because america had a technological advantage and a strategic cunning that most do not.

My peoples annexed islands land says otherwise.

The Japanese took out some 19 American warships and 350 warplanes in one single attack, because of morale. They were out numbered and outgunned. They only lost 5 mini-submarines and 29 planes. When an individual is "psyched up" for a battle, their body releases chemicals that can dull or eliminate pain while still speeding up reaction time. Soldiers can be fighting and running one minute, and then collapse to the ground a minute later, once the adrenaline runs out. Low morale has the opposite effect. Performance drops, fatigue and depression set in, etc. Never underestimate the power of the mind.

This is something Bioware needs to clear up. The codex is full of contradictions on just how difficult it is to kill a Reaper.

Yep, on one hand you've got Shepard being responsible for multiple Reaper deaths, in another battle you've got hit-and-run tactics destroying multiple Reapers without much of a loss, but then in another battle a single Reaper can take out an entire fleet? That makes no sense.

The one withShepard was with one reaper.
The hit and run win only worked once.
The battle were a singale reaper won, it was a convential battle.

Japan lost.
At end game in ME3 Reapers are winning. Our conventionally attempts are failing during our cycle in ME3.
Thessia has fallen,Turians and the Humans also being kicked into oblivion. Entire systems are nearly off limits because of Reaper control. Before you play your final missions in ME3 just look at the galaxy map. It is being dominated by Reaper forces.

[Candidate 88766]

Advantages the Reapers have:

-Superior weapons
-Superior armour
-Superior shielding
-Superior numbers
-Superior electronic warfare and countermeasures (EDI can hack into ships and shut down their reactors or weapons, and she's only partly based on Reaper code)
-An unlimited supply of ground troops (their supply of ground troops only runs out when the enemy is defeated)
-Indoctrination


Morale alone cannot defeat the Reapers. Conventionally, victory is not possible.

Modifié par Candidate 88766, 14 mai 2012 - 06:48 .

[dreman9999]

Rip504 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

savionen wrote...

NS Wizdum wrote...

xsdob wrote...

Yes because that's what wins wars, not numbers, tactics, or ingenuity, just morale.

You hear that Mexico, Native Americans, Hawaiians, and Japanese. You couldn't beat us because you didn't have the conviction, determination, or willingness to do anything to win like we did. Not because america had a technological advantage and a strategic cunning that most do not.

My peoples annexed islands land says otherwise.

The Japanese took out some 19 American warships and 350 warplanes in one single attack, because of morale. They were out numbered and outgunned. They only lost 5 mini-submarines and 29 planes. When an individual is "psyched up" for a battle, their body releases chemicals that can dull or eliminate pain while still speeding up reaction time. Soldiers can be fighting and running one minute, and then collapse to the ground a minute later, once the adrenaline runs out. Low morale has the opposite effect. Performance drops, fatigue and depression set in, etc. Never underestimate the power of the mind.

This is something Bioware needs to clear up. The codex is full of contradictions on just how difficult it is to kill a Reaper.

Yep, on one hand you've got Shepard being responsible for multiple Reaper deaths, in another battle you've got hit-and-run tactics destroying multiple Reapers without much of a loss, but then in another battle a single Reaper can take out an entire fleet? That makes no sense.

The one withShepard was with one reaper.
The hit and run win only worked once.
The battle were a singale reaper won, it was a convential battle.

Japan lost.
At end game in ME3 Reapers are winning. Our conventionally attempts are failing during our cycle in ME3.
Thessia has fallen,Turians and the Humans also being kicked into oblivion. Entire systems are nearly off limits because of Reaper control. Before you play your final missions in ME3 just look at the galaxy map. It is being dominated by Reaper forces.

That the thing Japan had limit to it's recourse and a place to lose. The tactic they used before worked but when they ran out of rescorse and there home was bombed, the fell.
The reapers need nor recorces, and have endless troops, They own no place. They need nothing. I glad you agree with me.

[incinerator950]

tetsutsuru wrote...

estebanus wrote...

Morale doesn't help when a guddamn laser destroys your ship in one shot.

tetsutsuru wrote...

Who says we don't have the capability to inflict the same on Reaper ships? Perhaps not in just one, clumsilly-aimed shot. But in a few or several, precision shots, at least Reaper Destroyers can be taken out.

incinerator950 wrote...

It's fairly obvious they won't.  The Mass Accelerator (proto Crucible?) that took out the Klendagon impact Reaper tore through the hull and glanced off the Crust of Klendagon, that was massive in power.  It takes the equivilant of 4 Dreadnoughts to have an equal chance of killing a Sovereign class Capital in a sustained firefight, without flanking, without forcing the Reapers to drop the mass of their reactors to move.  

For the record which no one pieced together, Reaper Destroyers are expendable compared to Capitals.  Reaper Capitals were not shown to be designed to have those weaknesses.  Stop assuming they have them.

I'm not assuming anything.  What do you think I'm assuming?

I have a localized example for you.  In single-player (as Shepard, obviously), or heck, even as my character "Hiroko" in multiplayer, who is a level 20 Female Human Infiltrator (none of that Biotic siliness  ) versus 2 Banshees.  Each of those Banshees can easilly kick my ass via Nova Scream, Warp, melee, even their famous one-hit-kill grab.  More often than not, they die and I live.  Or if I get knocked-out, my team still survives.

There are reasons combat is as fluid as it is.  Having the biggest gun doesn't a guaranteed victory 100% of the time make.

That's a husk, not a 2km Dreadnought which can choose to eradicate the entire planet you are stationed on.  Husks are expendable, they are made from civilians and soldiers.  The first Destroyer you kill is not your kill, it is made by an Alpha Thresher Maw.  That Alpha, will never be able to take down a Reaper Capital.  The second kill, is made by using an orbital strike.  Again, you did not personally damage the Reaper, you coordinated the strike.  The third is a Hade's Cannon, without tangible Barriers, an AA Gun, which you finally kill because of the lack of Kinetic barrier strength.  The fourth, you have to launch Thanix Missiles, as well as several heavy weapons from adjacent support units.  

Localized examples mean nothing when the main game shows that everyone is losing when the Reapers put effort into exterminating someone.  Your level 20 Infiltrator does not fight the entire horde at once, your Shepard, does not fight Leviathans on the ground. 

Having the biggest Gun doesn't guarantee victory, but neither do specialized troopers against an enemy with no feasible command structure, supply lines, and infinite morale to kill you. 

[NS Wizdum]

dreman9999 wrote...

NS Wizdum wrote...

xsdob wrote...

Yes because that's what wins wars, not numbers, tactics, or ingenuity, just morale.

You hear that Mexico, Native Americans, Hawaiians, and Japanese. You couldn't beat us because you didn't have the conviction, determination, or willingness to do anything to win like we did. Not because america had a technological advantage and a strategic cunning that most do not.

My peoples annexed islands land says otherwise.

The Japanese took out some 19 American warships and 350 warplanes in one single attack, because of morale. They were out numbered and outgunned. They only lost 5 mini-submarines and 29 planes. When an individual is "psyched up" for a battle, their body releases chemicals that can dull or eliminate pain while still speeding up reaction time. Soldiers can be fighting and running one minute, and then collapse to the ground a minute later, once the adrenaline runs out. Low morale has the opposite effect. Performance drops, fatigue and depression set in, etc. Never underestimate the power of the mind.

This is something Bioware needs to clear up. The codex is full of contradictions on just how difficult it is to kill a Reaper.

You people are not listening. The japenese were fighting men...Men who stop to rest, who need recorces, who had massive vuribilitiesand easy mortality.
The reaper are not that at all. They need no resourses, they have endless troops, they don't die easy, they don't sleep or stop....
We have limit resources.

All those ships, planes, and people were destroyed in less than 2 hours. I really doubt the Japanese were able to win that battle because the Americans stopped for a lunch break, needed to take a nap, or ran out of sammiches.

Japan eventually lost the war because they were not willing to accept the price of victory. They have a small, densely populated landmass, and the Americans had a weapon that could inflict horrific damage to that population. In the end, they lost the will to fight. They also knew that, unlike the Reapers, the Americans would accept a surrender. They would not continue dropping bombs until nothing was left. The Japanese were not facing extinction, and they still had the morale to attack.

The Reapers are also not infinite. Their numbers are only in the few thousand. They are easily outnumbered by the rest of the galaxy. They are also not without weakness. Their large size and lack of anti-missile/anti-air defenses make them vulnerable to attack from multiple angles. They can only fire their main gun in one direction at a time, and it has a warm-up period. They must take organics into their ships for processing, this means there is a way inside, they are not impenetrable. Since they are machines, their tactics can be easily predicted. They may also be vulnerable to non-traditional attacks.

Modifié par NS Wizdum, 14 mai 2012 - 06:55 .

[jsl1016]

tetsutsuru wrote...

One word which makes a Conventional Victory possible:  Morale.

Shepard managing a high EMS rating means the biggest galactic "Sword" fleet and "Hammer" ground teams ever assembled.  Soldiers will have solid confidence and a high morale.  High morale means every single soldier can fight harder, better, faster, stronger.  This includes EDI, in spite of being synthetic.  Remember the last private conversation with her in the FOB?  She will follow Shepard, now determined and unwavering.  The same goes for the Geth, with full-AI sentience.

You can throw all the math you want at this with fleet ratings, score, strength, or whatever else have you.  But 'morale' is the one big thing which will throw all those equations up in the air.

Know a real-life soldier who's been in an actual combat theatre, let alone one who's been in direct combat?  Go ahead and ask him/her how much of a difference morale affects the situation.  But you know, you might not even need to, there are lots of realistic movies which portray such:  300, We Were Soldiers, Saving Private Ryan, Act of Valor.  Even realistic, science fiction, Battle: Los Angeles.

Outnumbered?  Outgunned?  So, you gonna just bend over and let the Reapers have their way with you, and you just take it then?  Hell, no!  I'm gonna die, but I'm gonna make my ONE, seemingly insignificant life cost them dearly to take.

Not saying that High EMS = High Morale = instant guaranteed victory against the Reapers.  Morale is a wildcard which can definitely turn 'victory' from a mere dream or wishful thinking, into a fighting chance of possibility.

Maybe someone here already said this but...300 was realistic?!

[Rip504]

dreman9999 wrote...

Rip504 wrote...
Japan lost.
At end game in ME3 Reapers are winning. Our conventionally attempts are failing during our cycle in ME3.
Thessia has fallen,Turians and the Humans also being kicked into oblivion. Entire systems are nearly off limits because of Reaper control. Before you play your final missions in ME3 just look at the galaxy map. It is being dominated by Reaper forces. I would say there is a 90% chance of losing in a conventional war vs the Reapers.

That the thing Japan had limit to it's recourse and a place to lose. The tactic they used before worked but when they ran out of rescorse and there home was bombed, the fell.
The reapers need nor recorces, and have endless troops, They own no place. They need nothing. I glad you agree with me.

[my Aim is True]

The power of positive thinking only gets you so far. Then math takes over. And basic math is on the side of the Reapers

[Sdrol117]

 Except not.

[NS Wizdum]

jsl1016 wrote...

tetsutsuru wrote...

One word which makes a Conventional Victory possible:  Morale.

Shepard managing a high EMS rating means the biggest galactic "Sword" fleet and "Hammer" ground teams ever assembled.  Soldiers will have solid confidence and a high morale.  High morale means every single soldier can fight harder, better, faster, stronger.  This includes EDI, in spite of being synthetic.  Remember the last private conversation with her in the FOB?  She will follow Shepard, now determined and unwavering.  The same goes for the Geth, with full-AI sentience.

You can throw all the math you want at this with fleet ratings, score, strength, or whatever else have you.  But 'morale' is the one big thing which will throw all those equations up in the air.

Know a real-life soldier who's been in an actual combat theatre, let alone one who's been in direct combat?  Go ahead and ask him/her how much of a difference morale affects the situation.  But you know, you might not even need to, there are lots of realistic movies which portray such:  300, We Were Soldiers, Saving Private Ryan, Act of Valor.  Even realistic, science fiction, Battle: Los Angeles.

Outnumbered?  Outgunned?  So, you gonna just bend over and let the Reapers have their way with you, and you just take it then?  Hell, no!  I'm gonna die, but I'm gonna make my ONE, seemingly insignificant life cost them dearly to take.

Not saying that High EMS = High Morale = instant guaranteed victory against the Reapers.  Morale is a wildcard which can definitely turn 'victory' from a mere dream or wishful thinking, into a fighting chance of possibility.

Maybe someone here already said this but...300 was realistic?!

300 was not realistic, but the situation was real. Their enemy had no conventional weaknesses, so they used their size and tactics against them. This is actually an interesting comparison. In this case, the Persians essentially had unlimited resources.

[tetsutsuru]

estebanus wrote...

Morale doesn't help when a guddamn laser destroys your ship in one shot.

tetsutsuru wrote...

Who says we don't have the capability to inflict the same on Reaper ships? Perhaps not in just one, clumsilly-aimed shot. But in a few or several, precision shots, at least Reaper Destroyers can be taken out.

incinerator950 wrote...

It's fairly obvious they won't. The Mass Accelerator (proto Crucible?) that took out the Klendagon impact Reaper tore through the hull and glanced off the Crust of Klendagon, that was massive in power. It takes the equivilant of 4 Dreadnoughts to have an equal chance of killing a Sovereign class Capital in a sustained firefight, without flanking, without forcing the Reapers to drop the mass of their reactors to move.

For the record which no one pieced together, Reaper Destroyers are expendable compared to Capitals. Reaper Capitals were not shown to be designed to have those weaknesses. Stop assuming they have them.

tetsutsuru wrote...

I'm not assuming anything. What do you think I'm assuming?

I have a localized example for you. In single-player (as Shepard, obviously), or heck, even as my character "Hiroko" in multiplayer, who is a level 20 Female Human Infiltrator (none of that Biotic siliness ) versus 2 Banshees. Each of those Banshees can easilly kick my ass via Nova Scream, Warp, melee, even their famous one-hit-kill grab. More often than not, they die and I live. Or if I get knocked-out, my team still survives.

There are reasons combat is as fluid as it is. Having the biggest gun doesn't a guaranteed victory 100% of the time make.

incinerator950 wrote...

That's a husk, not a 2km Dreadnought which can choose to eradicate the entire planet you are stationed on.  Husks are expendable, they are made from civilians and soldiers.  The first Destroyer you kill is not your kill, it is made by an Alpha Thresher Maw.  That Alpha, will never be able to take down a Reaper Capital.  The second kill, is made by using an orbital strike.  Again, you did not personally damage the Reaper, you coordinated the strike.  The third is a Hade's Cannon, without tangible Barriers, an AA Gun, which you finally kill because of the lack of Kinetic barrier strength.  The fourth, you have to launch Thanix Missiles, as well as several heavy weapons from adjacent support units.  

Localized examples mean nothing when the main game shows that everyone is losing when the Reapers put effort into exterminating someone.  Your level 20 Infiltrator does not fight the entire horde at once, your Shepard, does not fight Leviathans on the ground. 

Having the biggest Gun doesn't guarantee victory, but neither do specialized troopers against an enemy with no feasible command structure, supply lines, and infinite morale to kill you.

How does my localized example not apply?  You have to keep things in proper proportion.  I'll grant you that a Banshee is a Husk.  But you'll have to grant me that Shepard and my multiplayer character are single infantry units.  If you're gonna scale up the Reapers' side, scale up our side as well.  Reaper Destroyer or Sovereign-class Capital vs. Hackett's flagship or, say, the Destiny Ascension.  Either of which are fully-capable of orbital bombardment as well.

The same can be applied then.

Also, you'll have to consider that Sovereign was equipped with plot armor.  Highly unlikely that even it can sustain fire from multiple FLEETS completely unscathed.  Whatever.  Even a 1st generation WWI rinky-dink tank can do more (albeit not really that much more  ) than merely scratch the paint of an M1A3 Abrams MBT.

Remember that scene in ME2 where Shepard head-butts a Krogan?  (If I recall, that happens if you don't import an ME1 savegame where Wrex is alive, Wreave is clan leader and you can Paragon-interrupt headbutt Gatatog Uvenk.)  That's all good.  I'll headbutt a Krogan.  But I'll headbutt a Krogan with my damn helmet ON.

You might be confusing "extremely difficult and terribly, horribly costly" with "impossible and let's not even bother, just... please use lube.  Lots of lube."

Modifié par tetsutsuru, 14 mai 2012 - 07:18 .

[eddieoctane]

Candidate 88766 wrote...

Advantages the Reapers have:

-Superior weapons
-Superior armour
-Superior shielding
-Superior numbers
-Superior electronic warfare and countermeasures (EDI can hack into ships and shut down their reactors or weapons, and she's only partly based on Reaper code)
-An unlimited supply of ground troops (their supply of ground troops only runs out when the enemy is defeated)
-Indoctrination


Morale alone cannot defeat the Reapers. Conventionally, victory is not possible.

If you strap a couple Cains to fighter, 2 or 3 pilots could take down a capital Reaper. Ground troops can take down destroyers with 1 shot. Not possible my ass.

In all seriousness, BioWare goofed majorly when trying to convey the strengths of the Reapers. They made them invincible and requiring a magic kill switch to deal with, and then had you kill one on foot with a single gun after needing the entire Quarian fleet to do the same. The reapers power was made more nebulous than the ending, which is saying something.

[Peregrin25]

dreman9999 wrote...

Peregrin25 wrote...

tetsutsuru wrote...

One word which makes a Conventional Victory possible:  Morale.

Shepard managing a high EMS rating means the biggest galactic "Sword" fleet and "Hammer" ground teams ever assembled.  Soldiers will have solid confidence and a high morale.  High morale means every single soldier can fight harder, better, faster, stronger.  This includes EDI, in spite of being synthetic.  Remember the last private conversation with her in the FOB?  She will follow Shepard, now determined and unwavering.  The same goes for the Geth, with full-AI sentience.

You can throw all the math you want at this with fleet ratings, score, strength, or whatever else have you.  But 'morale' is the one big thing which will throw all those equations up in the air.

Know a real-life soldier who's been in an actual combat theatre, let alone one who's been in direct combat?  Go ahead and ask him/her how much of a difference morale affects the situation.  But you know, you might not even need to, there are lots of realistic movies which portray such:  300, We Were Soldiers, Saving Private Ryan, Act of Valor.  Even realistic, science fiction, Battle: Los Angeles.

Outnumbered?  Outgunned?  So, you gonna just bend over and let the Reapers have their way with you, and you just take it then?  Hell, no!  I'm gonna die, but I'm gonna make my ONE, seemingly insignificant life cost them dearly to take.

Not saying that High EMS = High Morale = instant guaranteed victory against the Reapers.  Morale is a wildcard which can definitely turn 'victory' from a mere dream or wishful thinking, into a fighting chance of possibility.

Me being a U.S. Marine infantryman and a combat vet. I agree with ever word you said. Nice to see someone point that out. Morale is like a drug. Same goes for despair too. You either go into a fight uplifted and and ready to give it your all or you aren't and way I see it in ME3 you made the largest contribution to the galaxy, brokered imposssible treaties. Inspired the entire galaxy. Who's to say the fight couldn't be won conventionally. I almost would have prefered that having 8000 EMS rating and all going into Priority: Earth. lol.

Well said!.

As a us. 
Marine, how do you fight an enemy that never sleeps, needs no recourse,has endless troops, and destroy platoons in a singale shot?

Me being military vet has nothing to do with the game. I just mention dthat because what OP said was true on how morale works. As far as Mass Effect 3 you have billions to help you fight and alot of hardcore fire power. Even in the cut scenes we saw some of the reaper ships being destroyed. Yeah not all, but still. Doesn't mean then they could start using tactics to actually fight the way a conventional war would be fought.

Another exapmple. Star Trek and their fight against the borg. They beat em. One would think beating borg that can assimilate you with just a touch how could you beat such a force and then have to turn your weapons on your former friends and compatriots. They did though. I knowing military history for the course of the last 5000 years. I have read and studies some of the most overwhelming odds being destroyed by so few. It's happened time and time again. Most notorious was the Greek and Persian war. 300 Spartans and about 6000 other greek soldiers from arround the country fended off wave after wave of persian assault for 7 days before being criumbled, but allowed Greece still out numbered by the sheer number of the enemy to push them back and send Xerxes running home and soon dying from a bacterial infection. The Persain Empire spanned the entire continent of Asia and Greece such a small spec of land compared to it's vastness triumphed a great evil.

When you have morale and inspire your men. Anything is possible. It's part of what makes the human spirit the human spirit. It is why we survive. It is instinct. We always find a way. Hypthetically speaking somthing like reapers does happen. Yes, it will be devestating, in the end I think we may come out on top. And if allied alien races help that just makes it much less of a chance of being defeated.

I make these coments based on realism and how things may turn out in a hypthetical situation.

Edit: And your comment is the kind of attitiude that gets men killed in combat. and then fail to achieve victory in said confrontation.

Modifié par Peregrin25, 14 mai 2012 - 07:08 .

[Sdrol117]

eddieoctane wrote...

Candidate 88766 wrote...

Advantages the Reapers have:

-Superior weapons
-Superior armour
-Superior shielding
-Superior numbers
-Superior electronic warfare and countermeasures (EDI can hack into ships and shut down their reactors or weapons, and she's only partly based on Reaper code)
-An unlimited supply of ground troops (their supply of ground troops only runs out when the enemy is defeated)
-Indoctrination


Morale alone cannot defeat the Reapers. Conventionally, victory is not possible.

If you strap a couple Cains to fighter, 2 or 3 pilots could take down a capital Reaper. Ground troops can take down destroyers with 1 shot. Not possible my ass.

In all seriousness, BioWare goofed majorly when trying to convey the strengths of the Reapers. They made them invincible and requiring a magic kill switch to deal with, and then had you kill one on foot with a single gun after needing the entire Quarian fleet to do the same. The reapers power was made more nebulous than the ending, which is saying something.

[Peregrin25]

tetsutsuru wrote...

tetsutsuru wrote...

One word which makes a Conventional Victory possible: Morale.

Shepard managing a high EMS rating means the biggest galactic "Sword" fleet and "Hammer" ground teams ever assembled. Soldiers will have solid confidence and a high morale. High morale means every single soldier can fight harder, better, faster, stronger. This includes EDI, in spite of being synthetic. Remember the last private conversation with her in the FOB? She will follow Shepard, now determined and unwavering. The same goes for the Geth, with full-AI sentience.

You can throw all the math you want at this with fleet ratings, score, strength, or whatever else have you. But 'morale' is the one big thing which will throw all those equations up in the air.

Know a real-life soldier who's been in an actual combat theatre, let alone one who's been in direct combat? Go ahead and ask him/her how much of a difference morale affects the situation. But you know, you might not even need to, there are lots of realistic movies which portray such: 300, We Were Soldiers, Saving Private Ryan, Act of Valor. Even realistic, science fiction, Battle: Los Angeles.

Outnumbered? Outgunned? So, you gonna just bend over and let the Reapers have their way with you, and you just take it then? Hell, no! I'm gonna die, but I'm gonna make my ONE, seemingly insignificant life cost them dearly to take.

Not saying that High EMS = High Morale = instant guaranteed victory against the Reapers. Morale is a wildcard which can definitely turn 'victory' from a mere dream or wishful thinking, into a fighting chance of possibility.

Peregrin25 wrote...

Me being a U.S. Marine infantryman and a combat vet. I agree with ever word you said. Nice to see someone point that out. Morale is like a drug. Same goes for despair too. You either go into a fight uplifted and and ready to give it your all or you aren't and way I see it in ME3 you made the largest contribution to the galaxy, brokered imposssible treaties. Inspired the entire galaxy. Who's to say the fight couldn't be won conventionally. I almost would have prefered that having 8000 EMS rating and all going into Priority: Earth. lol.

Well said!.

I know this is off-topic but...

Sir, I sincerely thank you for your service.

lol thanks.

[dreman9999]

NS Wizdum wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

NS Wizdum wrote...

xsdob wrote...

Yes because that's what wins wars, not numbers, tactics, or ingenuity, just morale.

You hear that Mexico, Native Americans, Hawaiians, and Japanese. You couldn't beat us because you didn't have the conviction, determination, or willingness to do anything to win like we did. Not because america had a technological advantage and a strategic cunning that most do not.

My peoples annexed islands land says otherwise.

The Japanese took out some 19 American warships and 350 warplanes in one single attack, because of morale. They were out numbered and outgunned. They only lost 5 mini-submarines and 29 planes. When an individual is "psyched up" for a battle, their body releases chemicals that can dull or eliminate pain while still speeding up reaction time. Soldiers can be fighting and running one minute, and then collapse to the ground a minute later, once the adrenaline runs out. Low morale has the opposite effect. Performance drops, fatigue and depression set in, etc. Never underestimate the power of the mind.

This is something Bioware needs to clear up. The codex is full of contradictions on just how difficult it is to kill a Reaper.

You people are not listening. The japenese were fighting men...Men who stop to rest, who need recorces, who had massive vuribilitiesand easy mortality.
The reaper are not that at all. They need no resourses, they have endless troops, they don't die easy, they don't sleep or stop....
We have limit resources.

All those ships, planes, and people were destroyed in less than 2 hours. I really doubt the Japanese were able to win that battle because the Americans stopped for a lunch break, needed to take a nap, or ran out of sammiches.

Japan eventually lost the war because they were not willing to accept the price of victory. They have a small, densely populated landmass, and the Americans had a weapon that could inflict horrific damage to that population. In the end, they lost the will to fight. They also knew that, unlike the Reapers, the Americans would accept a surrender. They would not continue dropping bombs until nothing was left. The Japanese were not facing extinction, and they still had the morale to attack.

The Reapers are also not infinite. Their numbers are only in the few thousand. They are easily outnumbered by the rest of the galaxy. They are also not without weakness. Their large size and lack of anti-missile/anti-air defenses make them vulnerable to attack from multiple angles. They can only fire their main gun in one direction at a time, and it has a warm-up period. They must take organics into their ships for processing, this means there is a way inside, they are not impenetrable. Since they are machines, their tactics can be easily predicted. They may also be vulnerable to non-traditional attacks.

Your still not understand...People tire....Reapers don't. No one can fight forever...The reapers can. The reapers them selves oare not infinate but the forces they use...The husk, the Oculus...Are unlimited.
And the have antii missile/anti- air defences...It's call Oculus and kintetivc barriers.
Do not understand they flood ever where with husk and Oculus, having there enemies fight them first and they attack form a distance?

[incinerator950]

Sdrol117 wrote...

eddieoctane wrote...

Candidate 88766 wrote...

Advantages the Reapers have:

-Superior weapons
-Superior armour
-Superior shielding
-Superior numbers
-Superior electronic warfare and countermeasures (EDI can hack into ships and shut down their reactors or weapons, and she's only partly based on Reaper code)
-An unlimited supply of ground troops (their supply of ground troops only runs out when the enemy is defeated)
-Indoctrination


Morale alone cannot defeat the Reapers. Conventionally, victory is not possible.

If you strap a couple Cains to fighter, 2 or 3 pilots could take down a capital Reaper. Ground troops can take down destroyers with 1 shot. Not possible my ass.

In all seriousness, BioWare goofed majorly when trying to convey the strengths of the Reapers. They made them invincible and requiring a magic kill switch to deal with, and then had you kill one on foot with a single gun after needing the entire Quarian fleet to do the same. The reapers power was made more nebulous than the ending, which is saying something.

I don't even want to post anymore, my brain is frying from the amount of durp.  

[eddieoctane]

Sdrol117 wrote...

eddieoctane wrote...

Candidate 88766 wrote...

Advantages the Reapers have:

-Superior weapons
-Superior armour
-Superior shielding
-Superior numbers
-Superior electronic warfare and countermeasures (EDI can hack into ships and shut down their reactors or weapons, and she's only partly based on Reaper code)
-An unlimited supply of ground troops (their supply of ground troops only runs out when the enemy is defeated)
-Indoctrination


Morale alone cannot defeat the Reapers. Conventionally, victory is not possible.

If you strap a couple Cains to fighter, 2 or 3 pilots could take down a capital Reaper. Ground troops can take down destroyers with 1 shot. Not possible my ass.

In all seriousness, BioWare goofed majorly when trying to convey the strengths of the Reapers. They made them invincible and requiring a magic kill switch to deal with, and then had you kill one on foot with a single gun after needing the entire Quarian fleet to do the same. The reapers power was made more nebulous than the ending, which is saying something.

The bit about gluing a Cain to a fighter was a joke, but my point still stands.

Killing a destroyer on Rannoch took the combined might of the Quarian fleet. Killign one on Earth took a single shot from an M-920 Cain. When a single soldier with 1 gun can go head on with a Reaper and win, I have to question just exactly how strong the Reapers are. The advantages or their armor and shields are very, very debatable. And if the Reapers defenses aren't that strong, their other advantages become less substantial. What good is having the biggst gun when you won't last long enough to use it?

[dreman9999]

eddieoctane wrote...

Candidate 88766 wrote...

Advantages the Reapers have:

-Superior weapons
-Superior armour
-Superior shielding
-Superior numbers
-Superior electronic warfare and countermeasures (EDI can hack into ships and shut down their reactors or weapons, and she's only partly based on Reaper code)
-An unlimited supply of ground troops (their supply of ground troops only runs out when the enemy is defeated)
-Indoctrination


Morale alone cannot defeat the Reapers. Conventionally, victory is not possible.

If you strap a couple Cains to fighter, 2 or 3 pilots could take down a capital Reaper. Ground troops can take down destroyers with 1 shot. Not possible my ass.

In all seriousness, BioWare goofed majorly when trying to convey the strengths of the Reapers. They made them invincible and requiring a magic kill switch to deal with, and then had you kill one on foot with a single gun after needing the entire Quarian fleet to do the same. The reapers power was made more nebulous than the ending, which is saying something.

1. What you destroy with a cain was an AA tower...Not a reaper.
2. You have to take down the barrier first to damage them with a cain.
3. The fight would be taken out by Oculusway beforereaching the reaper.

[111987]

About the Cain thing; while yes, technically a CAIN shot destroyed a Hades Cannon, this seems to be a case of "The Rule of Cool". That or the Hades Cannon doesn't have the shielding of a normal Destroyer. Because that was the only Cain shot that ever did that much damage. It takes 3 Cain shots to destroy the Human Reaper in Mass Effect 2 on Insanity. Tela Vasir can survive multiple Cain shots. Hell, even the Ymir Mechs can survive if it isn't a direct hit, but a hit right next to them.

It just makes absolutely zero sense that the Cain can take out a Destroyer with a single shot when taking into consideration all the other examples of it being used in the past.

[dreman9999]

eddieoctane wrote...

Sdrol117 wrote...

eddieoctane wrote...

Candidate 88766 wrote...

Advantages the Reapers have:

-Superior weapons
-Superior armour
-Superior shielding
-Superior numbers
-Superior electronic warfare and countermeasures (EDI can hack into ships and shut down their reactors or weapons, and she's only partly based on Reaper code)
-An unlimited supply of ground troops (their supply of ground troops only runs out when the enemy is defeated)
-Indoctrination


Morale alone cannot defeat the Reapers. Conventionally, victory is not possible.

If you strap a couple Cains to fighter, 2 or 3 pilots could take down a capital Reaper. Ground troops can take down destroyers with 1 shot. Not possible my ass.

In all seriousness, BioWare goofed majorly when trying to convey the strengths of the Reapers. They made them invincible and requiring a magic kill switch to deal with, and then had you kill one on foot with a single gun after needing the entire Quarian fleet to do the same. The reapers power was made more nebulous than the ending, which is saying something.

The bit about gluing a Cain to a fighter was a joke, but my point still stands.

Killing a destroyer on Rannoch took the combined might of the Quarian fleet. Killign one on Earth took a single shot from an M-920 Cain. When a single soldier with 1 gun can go head on with a Reaper and win, I have to question just exactly how strong the Reapers are. The advantages or their armor and shields are very, very debatable. And if the Reapers defenses aren't that strong, their other advantages become less substantial. What good is having the biggst gun when you won't last long enough to use it?

1. What you destroy with a cain was an AA tower...Not a reaper.
2. You have to take down the barrier first to damage them with a cain.
3. The fighter would be taken out by Oculuses way before reaching the reaper.

Modifié par dreman9999, 14 mai 2012 - 07:23 .

[incinerator950]

eddieoctane wrote...

Sdrol117 wrote...

eddieoctane wrote...

Candidate 88766 wrote...

Advantages the Reapers have:

-Superior weapons
-Superior armour
-Superior shielding
-Superior numbers
-Superior electronic warfare and countermeasures (EDI can hack into ships and shut down their reactors or weapons, and she's only partly based on Reaper code)
-An unlimited supply of ground troops (their supply of ground troops only runs out when the enemy is defeated)
-Indoctrination


Morale alone cannot defeat the Reapers. Conventionally, victory is not possible.

If you strap a couple Cains to fighter, 2 or 3 pilots could take down a capital Reaper. Ground troops can take down destroyers with 1 shot. Not possible my ass.

In all seriousness, BioWare goofed majorly when trying to convey the strengths of the Reapers. They made them invincible and requiring a magic kill switch to deal with, and then had you kill one on foot with a single gun after needing the entire Quarian fleet to do the same. The reapers power was made more nebulous than the ending, which is saying something.

The bit about gluing a Cain to a fighter was a joke, but my point still stands.

Killing a destroyer on Rannoch took the combined might of the Quarian fleet. Killign one on Earth took a single shot from an M-920 Cain. When a single soldier with 1 gun can go head on with a Reaper and win, I have to question just exactly how strong the Reapers are. The advantages or their armor and shields are very, very debatable. And if the Reapers defenses aren't that strong, their other advantages become less substantial. What good is having the biggst gun when you won't last long enough to use it?

Movie Effect, Bugz, Rachnids and giant ass cannon.  It's also a Hades Cannon, we can speculate all we want, but it took Thanix Missiles and little around a dozen Cains to take out that Destroyer by the Conduit. 

The same will be said for the Council ships, and exactly with the Quarian fleet.

[dreman9999]

incinerator950 wrote...

eddieoctane wrote...

Sdrol117 wrote...

eddieoctane wrote...

Candidate 88766 wrote...

Advantages the Reapers have:

-Superior weapons
-Superior armour
-Superior shielding
-Superior numbers
-Superior electronic warfare and countermeasures (EDI can hack into ships and shut down their reactors or weapons, and she's only partly based on Reaper code)
-An unlimited supply of ground troops (their supply of ground troops only runs out when the enemy is defeated)
-Indoctrination


Morale alone cannot defeat the Reapers. Conventionally, victory is not possible.

If you strap a couple Cains to fighter, 2 or 3 pilots could take down a capital Reaper. Ground troops can take down destroyers with 1 shot. Not possible my ass.

In all seriousness, BioWare goofed majorly when trying to convey the strengths of the Reapers. They made them invincible and requiring a magic kill switch to deal with, and then had you kill one on foot with a single gun after needing the entire Quarian fleet to do the same. The reapers power was made more nebulous than the ending, which is saying something.

The bit about gluing a Cain to a fighter was a joke, but my point still stands.

Killing a destroyer on Rannoch took the combined might of the Quarian fleet. Killign one on Earth took a single shot from an M-920 Cain. When a single soldier with 1 gun can go head on with a Reaper and win, I have to question just exactly how strong the Reapers are. The advantages or their armor and shields are very, very debatable. And if the Reapers defenses aren't that strong, their other advantages become less substantial. What good is having the biggst gun when you won't last long enough to use it?

Movie Effect, Bugz, Rachnids and giant ass cannon.  It's also a Hades Cannon, we can speculate all we want, but it took Thanix Missiles and little around a dozen Cains to take out that Destroyer by the Conduit. 

The same will be said for the Council ships, and exactly with the Quarian fleet.

But that raper was stunned first. We don't have the rescources to do that to every reaper as there horde attacks us.

[incinerator950]

dreman9999 wrote...

incinerator950 wrote...

eddieoctane wrote...

Sdrol117 wrote...

eddieoctane wrote...

Candidate 88766 wrote...

Advantages the Reapers have:

-Superior weapons
-Superior armour
-Superior shielding
-Superior numbers
-Superior electronic warfare and countermeasures (EDI can hack into ships and shut down their reactors or weapons, and she's only partly based on Reaper code)
-An unlimited supply of ground troops (their supply of ground troops only runs out when the enemy is defeated)
-Indoctrination


Morale alone cannot defeat the Reapers. Conventionally, victory is not possible.

If you strap a couple Cains to fighter, 2 or 3 pilots could take down a capital Reaper. Ground troops can take down destroyers with 1 shot. Not possible my ass.

In all seriousness, BioWare goofed majorly when trying to convey the strengths of the Reapers. They made them invincible and requiring a magic kill switch to deal with, and then had you kill one on foot with a single gun after needing the entire Quarian fleet to do the same. The reapers power was made more nebulous than the ending, which is saying something.

The bit about gluing a Cain to a fighter was a joke, but my point still stands.

Killing a destroyer on Rannoch took the combined might of the Quarian fleet. Killign one on Earth took a single shot from an M-920 Cain. When a single soldier with 1 gun can go head on with a Reaper and win, I have to question just exactly how strong the Reapers are. The advantages or their armor and shields are very, very debatable. And if the Reapers defenses aren't that strong, their other advantages become less substantial. What good is having the biggst gun when you won't last long enough to use it?

Movie Effect, Bugz, Rachnids and giant ass cannon.  It's also a Hades Cannon, we can speculate all we want, but it took Thanix Missiles and little around a dozen Cains to take out that Destroyer by the Conduit. 

The same will be said for the Council ships, and exactly with the Quarian fleet.

But that raper was stunned first. We don't have the rescources to do that to every reaper as there horde attacks us.

Yet he is trying to use a Reaper Destroyer converted into an AA Laser turret as an example.  

Modifié par incinerator950, 14 mai 2012 - 07:27 .